APS Overcrowding - In 3 years it’s projected to start declining

[Anonymous]

Re: CC- have 8th graders traditionally gone on field trips there? or is that something theyre trying to push now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where will they build this 4th High School?

I think they could build it at the Barcroft Rec center but I doubt they ever would since they invested so much in the race facility there. But it has a lot of land and is off a main road.

I think it would be a great idea to turn off community center Into a high school, it’s better for the entire community! Luckily, we are rich with community centers in Arlington so losing one would not be a great loss. However, county maintained assets are completely separate from school maintain assets so it’s not as if it’s an easy thing to do, unfortunately. Does anyone else have insight into this?

The insight is this would never happen.

Barcroft is a heavily used rec center. The County runs all of its rec gymnastics programs out of this site, which are hugely popular. The fields and outdoor areas are heavily used by sports teams and field space is already tight in Arlington. So no, the County isn't going to tear down a relatively new rec center and give it to APS to build a school. Even if they wanted to, the community would flip out (and rightly so).

I think you should use the Fairlington community center site. It already has a field/green space, aged building, etc..

That site is nowhere near big enough for a high school. You need a lot of land.

New high schools are built up not out. Think HB.

The 4th high school people want a pool. HB is not a comprehensive high school. It doesn't have all the fields and facilities of a traditional high school. The 4th high school crowd insists they want all these things.

Are people really complaining about overcrowding and then saying we should only have another high school if it can have a pool and a field?

Good grief. We are doomed.

Yes. Sometimes it's not the same people but yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Re: ship sailed, APS is spending almost $200 million on the CC, that will add very few new HS seats. This is where the money is going. It's done.

And, also, yes, if APS was ever going to really create a 4th comprehensive HS, it absolutely should have everything else the other schools have. All that stuff fit at CC, too, and that was the pre-COVID plan. But it was expensive, so they started over, and now they are spending almost the same amount of money and getting way less because of inflation and all the delays. It's so typical APS.

yeah I never really got why they killed the earlier CC project. can you enlighten me? I do remember some griping from the neighborhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re: ship sailed, APS is spending almost $200 million on the CC, that will add very few new HS seats. This is where the money is going. It's done.

And, also, yes, if APS was ever going to really create a 4th comprehensive HS, it absolutely should have everything else the other schools have. All that stuff fit at CC, too, and that was the pre-COVID plan. But it was expensive, so they started over, and now they are spending almost the same amount of money and getting way less because of inflation and all the delays. It's so typical APS.

yeah I never really got why they killed the earlier CC project. can you enlighten me? I do remember some griping from the neighborhood.

The griping from the neighborhood was because they were adding 800-1000 seats there, leaving open the chance that those seats would be zoned seats (not an option school), yet not giving the school the same thing every other HS in Arlington had. So if your kid was getting pulled from W&L or Wakefield to attend crappy high you would have complained, too.

It got killed because the budget came in way high -- $240-$270 million for a $185 million budget. BUT, note that the $$$ plan had space for an eventual pool, a full field, an auditorium, two gyms, and basically everything a full HS in Arlington has PLUS meeting the needs of the CC. It also added a meaningful number of new seats AND was designed for future additions if you needed to add more. The new plan that just got approved is going to cost $200 million plus, hardly adds any seats, one gym, no real field, no auditorium, and could never be a full HS if you needed one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re: ship sailed, APS is spending almost $200 million on the CC, that will add very few new HS seats. This is where the money is going. It's done.

And, also, yes, if APS was ever going to really create a 4th comprehensive HS, it absolutely should have everything else the other schools have. All that stuff fit at CC, too, and that was the pre-COVID plan. But it was expensive, so they started over, and now they are spending almost the same amount of money and getting way less because of inflation and all the delays. It's so typical APS.

yeah I never really got why they killed the earlier CC project. can you enlighten me? I do remember some griping from the neighborhood.

The griping from the neighborhood was because they were adding 800-1000 seats there, leaving open the chance that those seats would be zoned seats (not an option school), yet not giving the school the same thing every other HS in Arlington had. So if your kid was getting pulled from W&L or Wakefield to attend crappy high you would have complained, too.

It got killed because the budget came in way high -- $240-$270 million for a $185 million budget. BUT, note that the $$$ plan had space for an eventual pool, a full field, an auditorium, two gyms, and basically everything a full HS in Arlington has PLUS meeting the needs of the CC. It also added a meaningful number of new seats AND was designed for future additions if you needed to add more. The new plan that just got approved is going to cost $200 million plus, hardly adds any seats, one gym, no real field, no auditorium, and could never be a full HS if you needed one.

Is there a link to the earlier plans for a comprehensive HS in the CC location ? I can’t imagine how they would fit that all into that small space.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re: ship sailed, APS is spending almost $200 million on the CC, that will add very few new HS seats. This is where the money is going. It's done.

And, also, yes, if APS was ever going to really create a 4th comprehensive HS, it absolutely should have everything else the other schools have. All that stuff fit at CC, too, and that was the pre-COVID plan. But it was expensive, so they started over, and now they are spending almost the same amount of money and getting way less because of inflation and all the delays. It's so typical APS.

yeah I never really got why they killed the earlier CC project. can you enlighten me? I do remember some griping from the neighborhood.

The griping from the neighborhood was because they were adding 800-1000 seats there, leaving open the chance that those seats would be zoned seats (not an option school), yet not giving the school the same thing every other HS in Arlington had. So if your kid was getting pulled from W&L or Wakefield to attend crappy high you would have complained, too.

It got killed because the budget came in way high -- $240-$270 million for a $185 million budget. BUT, note that the $$$ plan had space for an eventual pool, a full field, an auditorium, two gyms, and basically everything a full HS in Arlington has PLUS meeting the needs of the CC. It also added a meaningful number of new seats AND was designed for future additions if you needed to add more. The new plan that just got approved is going to cost $200 million plus, hardly adds any seats, one gym, no real field, no auditorium, and could never be a full HS if you needed one.

Is there a link to the earlier plans for a comprehensive HS in the CC location ? I can’t imagine how they would fit that all into that small space.

Most of it is here:
https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/200807_ACCAT-SB-Concept-Design-Report-reduced.pdf

This doesn't show where they could place a pool (that was shown in a committee meeting). They also showed how if you knock down Community High and the MPSA building the site holds a full track and football field in a meeting (not shown in this document). Note that APS is now actually planning to take both those buildings down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re: ship sailed, APS is spending almost $200 million on the CC, that will add very few new HS seats. This is where the money is going. It's done.

And, also, yes, if APS was ever going to really create a 4th comprehensive HS, it absolutely should have everything else the other schools have. All that stuff fit at CC, too, and that was the pre-COVID plan. But it was expensive, so they started over, and now they are spending almost the same amount of money and getting way less because of inflation and all the delays. It's so typical APS.

So with the pandemic, they are totally banking on enrollment dropping for the next decade.

If by "they", you mean the SB, you're correct. If by "they", you mean the CB......I have oceanfront property in Nevada to sell you

[Anonymous]

NP. But PP's opinion of the prepandmic 4th HS on CC is representative of a small group, namely neighborhood who wanted the amenities like a pool and parking garage and field. But it had huge problems...which is why it got spiked, starting with blasting astronomically through its own proposed budget for the building alone. Also, it did not include costs of moving Tech and MPSA (and be clear that 4th HS proponents just wanted them gone, to wherever they didn't care. They were happy to dump them on some other unsuspecting neighborhoods and treat programs and their communities like chess pieces. But again costs of even those moves were not included, so you're looking at a $300+M 4th HS project in the end. Worst of all, there were signs the demographic decline we are talking about in this thread were already taking root. School Board put a nail in it all when they opted (stupidly in my opinion due to NVD) to gigantically plus up WL (because NArl wanted to avoid Wakefield). That train had left the station even before CC planning got underway.
Look, people may be mad they didn't get what they wanted, but in the end the build up of Tech and MPSA on CC campus will wind up being an elegant solution for a lot of problems and will serve far more of the county at a better price point than a Jewel of the Pike HS would have for what would be helping mostly local neighborhood from going to Wakefield.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re: ship sailed, APS is spending almost $200 million on the CC, that will add very few new HS seats. This is where the money is going. It's done.

And, also, yes, if APS was ever going to really create a 4th comprehensive HS, it absolutely should have everything else the other schools have. All that stuff fit at CC, too, and that was the pre-COVID plan. But it was expensive, so they started over, and now they are spending almost the same amount of money and getting way less because of inflation and all the delays. It's so typical APS.

yeah I never really got why they killed the earlier CC project. can you enlighten me? I do remember some griping from the neighborhood.

The griping from the neighborhood was because they were adding 800-1000 seats there, leaving open the chance that those seats would be zoned seats (not an option school), yet not giving the school the same thing every other HS in Arlington had. So if your kid was getting pulled from W&L or Wakefield to attend crappy high you would have complained, too.

It got killed because the budget came in way high -- $240-$270 million for a $185 million budget. BUT, note that the $$$ plan had space for an eventual pool, a full field, an auditorium, two gyms, and basically everything a full HS in Arlington has PLUS meeting the needs of the CC. It also added a meaningful number of new seats AND was designed for future additions if you needed to add more. The new plan that just got approved is going to cost $200 million plus, hardly adds any seats, one gym, no real field, no auditorium, and could never be a full HS if you needed one.

Is there a link to the earlier plans for a comprehensive HS in the CC location ? I can’t imagine how they would fit that all into that small space.

Most of it is here:
https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/200807_ACCAT-SB-Concept-Design-Report-reduced.pdf

This doesn't show where they could place a pool (that was shown in a committee meeting). They also showed how if you knock down Community High and the MPSA building the site holds a full track and football field in a meeting (not shown in this document). Note that APS is now actually planning to take both those buildings down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP. But PP's opinion of the prepandmic 4th HS on CC is representative of a small group, namely neighborhood who wanted the amenities like a pool and parking garage and field. But it had huge problems...which is why it got spiked, starting with blasting astronomically through its own proposed budget for the building alone. Also, it did not include costs of moving Tech and MPSA (and be clear that 4th HS proponents just wanted them gone, to wherever they didn't care. They were happy to dump them on some other unsuspecting neighborhoods and treat programs and their communities like chess pieces. But again costs of even those moves were not included, so you're looking at a $300+M 4th HS project in the end. Worst of all, there were signs the demographic decline we are talking about in this thread were already taking root. School Board put a nail in it all when they opted (stupidly in my opinion due to NVD) to gigantically plus up WL (because NArl wanted to avoid Wakefield). That train had left the station even before CC planning got underway.
Look, people may be mad they didn't get what they wanted, but in the end the build up of Tech and MPSA on CC campus will wind up being an elegant solution for a lot of problems and will serve far more of the county at a better price point than a Jewel of the Pike HS would have for what would be helping mostly local neighborhood from going to Wakefield.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re: ship sailed, APS is spending almost $200 million on the CC, that will add very few new HS seats. This is where the money is going. It's done.

And, also, yes, if APS was ever going to really create a 4th comprehensive HS, it absolutely should have everything else the other schools have. All that stuff fit at CC, too, and that was the pre-COVID plan. But it was expensive, so they started over, and now they are spending almost the same amount of money and getting way less because of inflation and all the delays. It's so typical APS.

yeah I never really got why they killed the earlier CC project. can you enlighten me? I do remember some griping from the neighborhood.

The griping from the neighborhood was because they were adding 800-1000 seats there, leaving open the chance that those seats would be zoned seats (not an option school), yet not giving the school the same thing every other HS in Arlington had. So if your kid was getting pulled from W&L or Wakefield to attend crappy high you would have complained, too.

It got killed because the budget came in way high -- $240-$270 million for a $185 million budget. BUT, note that the $$$ plan had space for an eventual pool, a full field, an auditorium, two gyms, and basically everything a full HS in Arlington has PLUS meeting the needs of the CC. It also added a meaningful number of new seats AND was designed for future additions if you needed to add more. The new plan that just got approved is going to cost $200 million plus, hardly adds any seats, one gym, no real field, no auditorium, and could never be a full HS if you needed one.

Is there a link to the earlier plans for a comprehensive HS in the CC location ? I can’t imagine how they would fit that all into that small space.

Most of it is here:
https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/200807_ACCAT-SB-Concept-Design-Report-reduced.pdf

This doesn't show where they could place a pool (that was shown in a committee meeting). They also showed how if you knock down Community High and the MPSA building the site holds a full track and football field in a meeting (not shown in this document). Note that APS is now actually planning to take both those buildings down.

Kenmore would have solved a lot of problems. We have excessive middle school seats as it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP. But PP's opinion of the prepandmic 4th HS on CC is representative of a small group, namely neighborhood who wanted the amenities like a pool and parking garage and field. But it had huge problems...which is why it got spiked, starting with blasting astronomically through its own proposed budget for the building alone. Also, it did not include costs of moving Tech and MPSA (and be clear that 4th HS proponents just wanted them gone, to wherever they didn't care. They were happy to dump them on some other unsuspecting neighborhoods and treat programs and their communities like chess pieces. But again costs of even those moves were not included, so you're looking at a $300+M 4th HS project in the end. Worst of all, there were signs the demographic decline we are talking about in this thread were already taking root. School Board put a nail in it all when they opted (stupidly in my opinion due to NVD) to gigantically plus up WL (because NArl wanted to avoid Wakefield). That train had left the station even before CC planning got underway.
Look, people may be mad they didn't get what they wanted, but in the end the build up of Tech and MPSA on CC campus will wind up being an elegant solution for a lot of problems and will serve far more of the county at a better price point than a Jewel of the Pike HS would have for what would be helping mostly local neighborhood from going to Wakefield.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re: ship sailed, APS is spending almost $200 million on the CC, that will add very few new HS seats. This is where the money is going. It's done.

And, also, yes, if APS was ever going to really create a 4th comprehensive HS, it absolutely should have everything else the other schools have. All that stuff fit at CC, too, and that was the pre-COVID plan. But it was expensive, so they started over, and now they are spending almost the same amount of money and getting way less because of inflation and all the delays. It's so typical APS.

yeah I never really got why they killed the earlier CC project. can you enlighten me? I do remember some griping from the neighborhood.

The griping from the neighborhood was because they were adding 800-1000 seats there, leaving open the chance that those seats would be zoned seats (not an option school), yet not giving the school the same thing every other HS in Arlington had. So if your kid was getting pulled from W&L or Wakefield to attend crappy high you would have complained, too.

It got killed because the budget came in way high -- $240-$270 million for a $185 million budget. BUT, note that the $$$ plan had space for an eventual pool, a full field, an auditorium, two gyms, and basically everything a full HS in Arlington has PLUS meeting the needs of the CC. It also added a meaningful number of new seats AND was designed for future additions if you needed to add more. The new plan that just got approved is going to cost $200 million plus, hardly adds any seats, one gym, no real field, no auditorium, and could never be a full HS if you needed one.

Is there a link to the earlier plans for a comprehensive HS in the CC location ? I can’t imagine how they would fit that all into that small space.

Most of it is here:
https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/200807_ACCAT-SB-Concept-Design-Report-reduced.pdf

This doesn't show where they could place a pool (that was shown in a committee meeting). They also showed how if you knock down Community High and the MPSA building the site holds a full track and football field in a meeting (not shown in this document). Note that APS is now actually planning to take both those buildings down.

They only had a decline because of pandemic. If we get missing middle, further declines will not happen and we will be super overcrowded. Even without MM — they predicted a decline in 2007 and whoops it instead went up.

It just seems having slightl smaller high schools (2000) if they over build is a less bad outcome.