Colleges & Universities That Are The Top Feeder Schools to the Top 14 Law Schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As someone who's actually worked in law school admissions, I can confidently say that for the vast majority of law schools, undergrad institution is irrelevant maybe 98 percent of the time. The only times it mattered:

- If someone has a strong LSAT but mediocre grades, we'd be more likely to accept them if the grades were from a top institution.

- If someone has great grades but a mediocre LSAT, we'd be less likely to take them if their grades were from a nonselective institution.

Otherwise, law schools care only about two things: 1) maximizing LSAT/GPA medians for the rankings; 2) ensuring that admitted students have the skills to pass the bar, which increases pass rates, which helps in the rankings. My experience was at a good but not T14 law school, but my impression is that things are more or less the same at T14s except that they are less concerned with #2 because they are admitting students with high enough stats that they don't have to be concerned about it. The only exceptions might be Yale and Stanford, which have a more holistic admissions process where great stats aren't enough.

Not remotely relevant if you are "actually" at a top 14. Otherwise it is just a different beast.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who's actually worked in law school admissions, I can confidently say that for the vast majority of law schools, undergrad institution is irrelevant maybe 98 percent of the time. The only times it mattered:

- If someone has a strong LSAT but mediocre grades, we'd be more likely to accept them if the grades were from a top institution.

- If someone has great grades but a mediocre LSAT, we'd be less likely to take them if their grades were from a nonselective institution.

Otherwise, law schools care only about two things: 1) maximizing LSAT/GPA medians for the rankings; 2) ensuring that admitted students have the skills to pass the bar, which increases pass rates, which helps in the rankings. My experience was at a good but not T14 law school, but my impression is that things are more or less the same at T14s except that they are less concerned with #2 because they are admitting students with high enough stats that they don't have to be concerned about it. The only exceptions might be Yale and Stanford, which have a more holistic admissions process where great stats aren't enough.

While law school admissions officers may not care about undergraduate school attended by an applicant for admissions purposes, the undergraduate school learning environment may result in higher LSAT scores due to a high level of academic expectations/demands and due to the high level of competition during one's undergraduate years. Competing with the best should make one perform well as well as better than if competing in a lesser academic environment.

While freely admitting that I’m dealing with an entirely insignificant sample size, I’ve always thought that the LSAT pretty much tests how much people already think like a lawyer.

Yes, I agree to a certain extent. Nonetheless, a sharp, well tuned mind due to high level academic competition & environment should help one to perform better on the LSAT. Of course, this does not take into account LSAT prep courses and how much effort one puts toward mastering this law school entrance exam. In short, LSAT prep is the key, but a sharp mind should absorb the material in a more efficient matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t really matter where you to go to college for the top law schools, grades and lsat scores are all they care about. The top law schools accept students for a wide range of schools.

Correct

If that is the case why are the number of students in the T14 from Ivy League and similar undergraduate schools (inclusive of certain SLACs). Riddle me this? I went to a top 60 undergrad and top 50 law school and made it to big firms but eventually left.

As a PP explained, there's a confounding extrinsic variable: students who get into the top undergraduate schools tend to have high GPAs and standardized test scores. These same students are likely to have high undergraduate GPAs and standardized test scores. In other words, the students who are most likely to get into the top law schools are the same students who are most likely to get into the top undergraduate programs.

This poster is exactly right. Put simply, kids who go to top undergraduate schools tend to be very smart and those of them who apply to law schools tend to be very smart. But not all of them get in to T-14 schools. The undergraduate school with the highest average LSAT scores last year was Yale with 167.5. Many top tier undergraduate schools had averages of 165 or below. While a 168 is in the 96th percentile of an already very selective cohort, it is probably not going to get you into a T-14 law school unless you are URM. In the end, where an applicant went to undergraduate school is far less important than grades and LSAT scores. Finally, as others have said, graduating from a T-14 school is not necessary for success in the field of law by any means, nor does it guarantee success.

An LSAT score of 168 combined with a high undergraduate GPA should yield an offer or tow (Georgetown & Cornell) from top 14 law schools even for a non-URM.

An URM with an LSAT score of 164 and a high undergraduate GPA, should yield offers of admission to about 7 of the top 14 law schools as median is not the standard, the 25% is the standard.

A degree from a top 14 law school greatly enhances one's chances for high earnings early in one's legal career.

Disagree. Harvard's stats for incoming 2022 was a 75th percentile GPA of a 3.99, median of 3.92 and bottom 25th percentile of 3.82. The 75th percentile LSAT was a 176; median 174 and bottom 25th percentile 170. A 168 isn't going to cut it.

[Anonymous]

The top "feeder" schools are going to be the ones that have the highest combination of LSAT and GPA. See the following.

https://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/administrative/legal_education_and_admissions_to_the_bar/council_reports_and_resolutions/May2018CouncilOpenSession/18_may_2015_2017_top_240_feeder_schools_for_aba_applicants.authcheckdam.pdf

[Anonymous]

I trust water remains wet as well

[Anonymous]

Make sure those are the kind of jobs you want before you become obsessed with Top 14 Law Schools and Big Law salaries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t really matter where you to go to college for the top law schools, grades and lsat scores are all they care about. The top law schools accept students for a wide range of schools.

Correct

If that is the case why are the number of students in the T14 from Ivy League and similar undergraduate schools (inclusive of certain SLACs). Riddle me this? I went to a top 60 undergrad and top 50 law school and made it to big firms but eventually left.

As a PP explained, there's a confounding extrinsic variable: students who get into the top undergraduate schools tend to have high GPAs and standardized test scores. These same students are likely to have high undergraduate GPAs and standardized test scores. In other words, the students who are most likely to get into the top law schools are the same students who are most likely to get into the top undergraduate programs.

This poster is exactly right. Put simply, kids who go to top undergraduate schools tend to be very smart and those of them who apply to law schools tend to be very smart. But not all of them get in to T-14 schools. The undergraduate school with the highest average LSAT scores last year was Yale with 167.5. Many top tier undergraduate schools had averages of 165 or below. While a 168 is in the 96th percentile of an already very selective cohort, it is probably not going to get you into a T-14 law school unless you are URM. In the end, where an applicant went to undergraduate school is far less important than grades and LSAT scores. Finally, as others have said, graduating from a T-14 school is not necessary for success in the field of law by any means, nor does it guarantee success.

An LSAT score of 168 combined with a high undergraduate GPA should yield an offer or tow (Georgetown & Cornell) from top 14 law schools even for a non-URM.

An URM with an LSAT score of 164 and a high undergraduate GPA, should yield offers of admission to about 7 of the top 14 law schools as median is not the standard, the 25% is the standard.

A degree from a top 14 law school greatly enhances one's chances for high earnings early in one's legal career.

Disagree. Harvard's stats for incoming 2022 was a 75th percentile GPA of a 3.99, median of 3.92 and bottom 25th percentile of 3.82. The 75th percentile LSAT was a 176; median 174 and bottom 25th percentile 170. A 168 isn't going to cut it.

Disagree with your disagreement.

I do not understand why you are citing Harvard law school stats. The "Top 14 law schools" includes 13 other law schools besides HLS. I referenced Georgetown & Cornell as my examples. The median LSAT score for each is about 168, not in the 170s. Their median GPAs are also significantly lower than that of HLS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Make sure those are the kind of jobs you want before you become obsessed with Top 14 Law Schools and Big Law salaries.

Certainly important, but many want to practice corporate related transactional law or corporate litigation. Experience in a biglaw corporate practice for one's first 3 or 4 years is worthwhile as is the ability to totally pay off any student loans in about 4 years after law school.

If one prefers a more varied practice in a specific jurisdiction, then consider a large scholarship at a law school in that jurisdiction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Make sure those are the kind of jobs you want before you become obsessed with Top 14 Law Schools and Big Law salaries.

Certainly important, but many want to practice corporate related transactional law or corporate litigation. Experience in a biglaw corporate practice for one's first 3 or 4 years is worthwhile as is the ability to totally pay off any student loans in about 4 years after law school.

If one prefers a more varied practice in a specific jurisdiction, then consider a large scholarship at a law school in that jurisdiction.

depends where in the country you want to work, I have done BigLaw in Atlanta and Minneapolis and in those smaller cities you will not find a ton of people with T14 degrees. Some, but you are more likely to University of Minnesota in Minneapolis, UGA or Emory in Atlanta, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t really matter where you to go to college for the top law schools, grades and lsat scores are all they care about. The top law schools accept students for a wide range of schools.

Correct

If that is the case why are the number of students in the T14 from Ivy League and similar undergraduate schools (inclusive of certain SLACs). Riddle me this? I went to a top 60 undergrad and top 50 law school and made it to big firms but eventually left.

As a PP explained, there's a confounding extrinsic variable: students who get into the top undergraduate schools tend to have high GPAs and standardized test scores. These same students are likely to have high undergraduate GPAs and standardized test scores. In other words, the students who are most likely to get into the top law schools are the same students who are most likely to get into the top undergraduate programs.

This poster is exactly right. Put simply, kids who go to top undergraduate schools tend to be very smart and those of them who apply to law schools tend to be very smart. But not all of them get in to T-14 schools. The undergraduate school with the highest average LSAT scores last year was Yale with 167.5. Many top tier undergraduate schools had averages of 165 or below. While a 168 is in the 96th percentile of an already very selective cohort, it is probably not going to get you into a T-14 law school unless you are URM. In the end, where an applicant went to undergraduate school is far less important than grades and LSAT scores. Finally, as others have said, graduating from a T-14 school is not necessary for success in the field of law by any means, nor does it guarantee success.

An LSAT score of 168 combined with a high undergraduate GPA should yield an offer or tow (Georgetown & Cornell) from top 14 law schools even for a non-URM.

An URM with an LSAT score of 164 and a high undergraduate GPA, should yield offers of admission to about 7 of the top 14 law schools as median is not the standard, the 25% is the standard.

A degree from a top 14 law school greatly enhances one's chances for high earnings early in one's legal career.

Disagree. Harvard's stats for incoming 2022 was a 75th percentile GPA of a 3.99, median of 3.92 and bottom 25th percentile of 3.82. The 75th percentile LSAT was a 176; median 174 and bottom 25th percentile 170. A 168 isn't going to cut it.

Disagree with your disagreement.

I do not understand why you are citing Harvard law school stats. The "Top 14 law schools" includes 13 other law schools besides HLS. I referenced Georgetown & Cornell as my examples. The median LSAT score for each is about 168, not in the 170s. Their median GPAs are also significantly lower than that of HLS.

You said this: "An LSAT score of 168 combined with a high undergraduate GPA should yield an offer or tow (Georgetown & Cornell) from top 14 law schools even for a non-URM." I know several 168s who are going to a T40. None got into a T14. Also you didn't specify GPA. MAYBE a 4.0 with a 168 might get you in somewhere low on the T-14, especially if you went to Oxbridge for the two years after college, but you really need to clear 170 to get into a T-14.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t really matter where you to go to college for the top law schools, grades and lsat scores are all they care about. The top law schools accept students for a wide range of schools.

Correct

If that is the case why are the number of students in the T14 from Ivy League and similar undergraduate schools (inclusive of certain SLACs). Riddle me this? I went to a top 60 undergrad and top 50 law school and made it to big firms but eventually left.

As a PP explained, there's a confounding extrinsic variable: students who get into the top undergraduate schools tend to have high GPAs and standardized test scores. These same students are likely to have high undergraduate GPAs and standardized test scores. In other words, the students who are most likely to get into the top law schools are the same students who are most likely to get into the top undergraduate programs.

This poster is exactly right. Put simply, kids who go to top undergraduate schools tend to be very smart and those of them who apply to law schools tend to be very smart. But not all of them get in to T-14 schools. The undergraduate school with the highest average LSAT scores last year was Yale with 167.5. Many top tier undergraduate schools had averages of 165 or below. While a 168 is in the 96th percentile of an already very selective cohort, it is probably not going to get you into a T-14 law school unless you are URM. In the end, where an applicant went to undergraduate school is far less important than grades and LSAT scores. Finally, as others have said, graduating from a T-14 school is not necessary for success in the field of law by any means, nor does it guarantee success.

An LSAT score of 168 combined with a high undergraduate GPA should yield an offer or tow (Georgetown & Cornell) from top 14 law schools even for a non-URM.

An URM with an LSAT score of 164 and a high undergraduate GPA, should yield offers of admission to about 7 of the top 14 law schools as median is not the standard, the 25% is the standard.

A degree from a top 14 law school greatly enhances one's chances for high earnings early in one's legal career.

Disagree. Harvard's stats for incoming 2022 was a 75th percentile GPA of a 3.99, median of 3.92 and bottom 25th percentile of 3.82. The 75th percentile LSAT was a 176; median 174 and bottom 25th percentile 170. A 168 isn't going to cut it.

Disagree with your disagreement.

I do not understand why you are citing Harvard law school stats. The "Top 14 law schools" includes 13 other law schools besides HLS. I referenced Georgetown & Cornell as my examples. The median LSAT score for each is about 168, not in the 170s. Their median GPAs are also significantly lower than that of HLS.

You said this: "An LSAT score of 168 combined with a high undergraduate GPA should yield an offer or tow (Georgetown & Cornell) from top 14 law schools even for a non-URM." I know several 168s who are going to a T40. None got into a T14. Also you didn't specify GPA. MAYBE a 4.0 with a 168 might get you in somewhere low on the T-14, especially if you went to Oxbridge for the two years after college, but you really need to clear 170 to get into a T-14.

And an above median GPA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t really matter where you to go to college for the top law schools, grades and lsat scores are all they care about. The top law schools accept students for a wide range of schools.

Correct

If that is the case why are the number of students in the T14 from Ivy League and similar undergraduate schools (inclusive of certain SLACs). Riddle me this? I went to a top 60 undergrad and top 50 law school and made it to big firms but eventually left.

As a PP explained, there's a confounding extrinsic variable: students who get into the top undergraduate schools tend to have high GPAs and standardized test scores. These same students are likely to have high undergraduate GPAs and standardized test scores. In other words, the students who are most likely to get into the top law schools are the same students who are most likely to get into the top undergraduate programs.

This poster is exactly right. Put simply, kids who go to top undergraduate schools tend to be very smart and those of them who apply to law schools tend to be very smart. But not all of them get in to T-14 schools. The undergraduate school with the highest average LSAT scores last year was Yale with 167.5. Many top tier undergraduate schools had averages of 165 or below. While a 168 is in the 96th percentile of an already very selective cohort, it is probably not going to get you into a T-14 law school unless you are URM. In the end, where an applicant went to undergraduate school is far less important than grades and LSAT scores. Finally, as others have said, graduating from a T-14 school is not necessary for success in the field of law by any means, nor does it guarantee success.

An LSAT score of 168 combined with a high undergraduate GPA should yield an offer or tow (Georgetown & Cornell) from top 14 law schools even for a non-URM.

An URM with an LSAT score of 164 and a high undergraduate GPA, should yield offers of admission to about 7 of the top 14 law schools as median is not the standard, the 25% is the standard.

A degree from a top 14 law school greatly enhances one's chances for high earnings early in one's legal career.

Disagree. Harvard's stats for incoming 2022 was a 75th percentile GPA of a 3.99, median of 3.92 and bottom 25th percentile of 3.82. The 75th percentile LSAT was a 176; median 174 and bottom 25th percentile 170. A 168 isn't going to cut it.

Disagree with your disagreement.

I do not understand why you are citing Harvard law school stats. The "Top 14 law schools" includes 13 other law schools besides HLS. I referenced Georgetown & Cornell as my examples. The median LSAT score for each is about 168, not in the 170s. Their median GPAs are also significantly lower than that of HLS.

You said this: "An LSAT score of 168 combined with a high undergraduate GPA should yield an offer or tow (Georgetown & Cornell) from top 14 law schools even for a non-URM." I know several 168s who are going to a T40. None got into a T14. Also you didn't specify GPA. MAYBE a 4.0 with a 168 might get you in somewhere low on the T-14, especially if you went to Oxbridge for the two years after college, but you really need to clear 170 to get into a T-14.

must be news to the students of Cornell whose median LSAT is 168 and median gpa is 3.86

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Make sure those are the kind of jobs you want before you become obsessed with Top 14 Law Schools and Big Law salaries.

Certainly important, but many want to practice corporate related transactional law or corporate litigation. Experience in a biglaw corporate practice for one's first 3 or 4 years is worthwhile as is the ability to totally pay off any student loans in about 4 years after law school.

If one prefers a more varied practice in a specific jurisdiction, then consider a large scholarship at a law school in that jurisdiction.

depends where in the country you want to work, I have done BigLaw in Atlanta and Minneapolis and in those smaller cities you will not find a ton of people with T14 degrees. Some, but you are more likely to University of Minnesota in Minneapolis, UGA or Emory in Atlanta, etc.

Folks who attend Top 14 law schools and want biglaw typically are not targeting Minneapolis or Atlanta legal markets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Make sure those are the kind of jobs you want before you become obsessed with Top 14 Law Schools and Big Law salaries.

Certainly important, but many want to practice corporate related transactional law or corporate litigation. Experience in a biglaw corporate practice for one's first 3 or 4 years is worthwhile as is the ability to totally pay off any student loans in about 4 years after law school.

If one prefers a more varied practice in a specific jurisdiction, then consider a large scholarship at a law school in that jurisdiction.

depends where in the country you want to work, I have done BigLaw in Atlanta and Minneapolis and in those smaller cities you will not find a ton of people with T14 degrees. Some, but you are more likely to University of Minnesota in Minneapolis, UGA or Emory in Atlanta, etc.

Folks who attend Top 14 law schools and want biglaw typically are not targeting Minneapolis or Atlanta legal markets.

yes that was my point

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t really matter where you to go to college for the top law schools, grades and lsat scores are all they care about. The top law schools accept students for a wide range of schools.

Correct

If that is the case why are the number of students in the T14 from Ivy League and similar undergraduate schools (inclusive of certain SLACs). Riddle me this? I went to a top 60 undergrad and top 50 law school and made it to big firms but eventually left.

As a PP explained, there's a confounding extrinsic variable: students who get into the top undergraduate schools tend to have high GPAs and standardized test scores. These same students are likely to have high undergraduate GPAs and standardized test scores. In other words, the students who are most likely to get into the top law schools are the same students who are most likely to get into the top undergraduate programs.

This poster is exactly right. Put simply, kids who go to top undergraduate schools tend to be very smart and those of them who apply to law schools tend to be very smart. But not all of them get in to T-14 schools. The undergraduate school with the highest average LSAT scores last year was Yale with 167.5. Many top tier undergraduate schools had averages of 165 or below. While a 168 is in the 96th percentile of an already very selective cohort, it is probably not going to get you into a T-14 law school unless you are URM. In the end, where an applicant went to undergraduate school is far less important than grades and LSAT scores. Finally, as others have said, graduating from a T-14 school is not necessary for success in the field of law by any means, nor does it guarantee success.

An LSAT score of 168 combined with a high undergraduate GPA should yield an offer or tow (Georgetown & Cornell) from top 14 law schools even for a non-URM.

An URM with an LSAT score of 164 and a high undergraduate GPA, should yield offers of admission to about 7 of the top 14 law schools as median is not the standard, the 25% is the standard.

A degree from a top 14 law school greatly enhances one's chances for high earnings early in one's legal career.

Disagree. Harvard's stats for incoming 2022 was a 75th percentile GPA of a 3.99, median of 3.92 and bottom 25th percentile of 3.82. The 75th percentile LSAT was a 176; median 174 and bottom 25th percentile 170. A 168 isn't going to cut it.

Disagree with your disagreement.

I do not understand why you are citing Harvard law school stats. The "Top 14 law schools" includes 13 other law schools besides HLS. I referenced Georgetown & Cornell as my examples. The median LSAT score for each is about 168, not in the 170s. Their median GPAs are also significantly lower than that of HLS.

You said this: "An LSAT score of 168 combined with a high undergraduate GPA should yield an offer or tow (Georgetown & Cornell) from top 14 law schools even for a non-URM." I know several 168s who are going to a T40. None got into a T14. Also you didn't specify GPA. MAYBE a 4.0 with a 168 might get you in somewhere low on the T-14, especially if you went to Oxbridge for the two years after college, but you really need to clear 170 to get into a T-14.

must be news to the students of Cornell whose median LSAT is 168 and median gpa is 3.86

Cornell’s median was 168 for a number of years. But the 2022 class median is 171. You can look it up. I think I would agree that a 168 and a magna cum laude gpa might have resulted in an acceptance to Cornell or Georgetown in past years, but would not be a guarantee. In fact, I know someone with these numbers who was accepted to one of these schools in the past, but was waitlisted or rejected by all other T14s they applied to. This year no T14 school’s median was as low as 168. Remains to be seen if this stays this way in the future. This is non-URM, of course.