Business or First class international airfare

[Anonymous]

^^
You must be the “rarefied circles” peak DCUM poster, insufferable

Give a hoot, don’t pollute

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Over $20 million NW and always fly coach. We’re a short family (so leg room doe sad Much thanks matter so much) and no particular physical needs.

This is very interesting. I fly about twice a month for work and my company pays for first or business class regardless of distance or destination. On top of this, I fly with my family about six times a year. We always fly first or business class; seems weird I would do it for work but not for personal. I guess I’m only MC by DCUM standards with an HHI of $550K and a NW of $5M. Most of our business class is covered by FF miles or Global Services elite upgrades on United, but we still have a $50K / year travel budget to spend on first and business class, when necessary.

What do you plan to do with $20M in NW if not to live a little. Flying coach is like living in high density, low cost, suburban housing. Do people actually enjoy this? More seats for me and my kids, though…. Thanks!

DP here but with similar net worth. We do international travel for vacations about twice a year. However, we have always flown coach. Neither of us have any business travel so we don't earn points/miles that way, and our vacation travel also too infrequent. We don't generally budget - the concept is irrational to us, but to each their own. We spend money on things that bring us value that is congruent with the cost, and business class vs coach just doesn't work out on that front. For our most recent 2-week trip to Europe, coach tickets were about $4k, and business class would have been somewhere around $18k-$22k. This was a 9 hour flight. To put that into perspective, that's about $7.40 per minute per person just to enjoy the comforts of sitting/sleeping in business class. Jetlag is going to be an issue regardless of how much rest you get on the plane. That $16k is just going to be *FAR* more enjoyable elsewhere on the trip - 5-star accommodations, show tickets, fine dining, exclusive excursions, etc. Sure, with relatively high networth, we could afford all of those things in addition to paying $16k on business class, but one of the reasons we've been able to build our NW is to not waste it on things that don't bring us enjoyment that match the cost.

PP here. I wouldn’t spend $16K on business class tickets for a single trip either. That’s crazy. I might spend $6K on coach and then use PlusPoints to upgrade to business. I might spend $4K for my own business class ticket and then use FF miles for the rest of the family. Quite frankly, anyone paying cash out of pocket for all of their personal business or first class tickets is either ultra-rich or ultra-dumb.

You have got to take advantage of FF miles, hotel points, and elite status to cover the majority of your personal upgrades into luxury suites and comfortable seats. My family of four and I are traveling to France next week for seven nights. All four of us are flying business class round-trip on United. We also have two rooms booked at the Paris Park Hyatt Vendôme. Kids are sharing a room with 2 twin beds. DH and I have a Park Suite King. The total amount of cash we’re spending for 4 round-trip business class tickets and 1 room and 1 suite, each for 7 nights at a luxury hotel in Paris? $556, and this is just for taxes on the airfare!! The typical cash rates for these two rooms is €1,305 and €1,710, respectively. You’re spending more than 7X on just your coach airfare as I am on substantially more luxurious business airfare as well as top notch lodging. This is one of the reasons we've been able to build our NW: not wasting it on things that don't bring us enjoyment that match the cost.

PP here. That's apples and oranges. You can't earn this level of FF points and elite status by traveling twice a year for vacations like we do. You are subsidizing your vacation travel either by 1) frequent business travel paid for by others, or 2) earning points through credit card spending, which is money you could have otherwise earned as cash back at 2% or higher. You said it yourself that you have a 50k a year budget to pay for business class seats, which incidentally is about the amount of annual spend required to maintain United Global Services status. The fact that your were able to save up and target your points to pay for this one vacation travel neglects the fact that some people, including you, have poured money to earn these perks in the past - cost that can't be ignored just because you want to brag about laying less than 600 for a luxury vacation. Look, never mind the luxury hotel, if business class only cost 600 for four people, I would gladly pay for it. It doesn't.Business class tickets are expensive no matter how you paid for them - they are not worth it to me after a full accounting of the costs.

Just to clarify, this is a $50K travel budget total, and not all of it is spent on business and first class airfare. The $50K we spend in cash results in leisure travel that is easily worth $150K+, as it is heavily augmented with optimized use of FF miles and hotel points, both of which are earned at minimal cost via business travel. This is another form of career compensation that is particularly valuable to a travel-heavy family like ours. This is also hardly a once-in-a-lifetime occurrence; we travel like this as a family several times per year.

If you don’t have a job that provides this sort of compensation, you either need to be happy flying in coach and staying at dingy Airbnbs or you need to have a job that pays an additional $150K-$200K per year to cover additional, discretionary travel expenses. Not everyone is supposed to be able to afford to fly business class.

PP here. Well, no sh*t Sherlock. This thread didn't ask "is a business class ticket worth it if it is paid for by other people". The entire premise here is paying out of one's own pocket. To be sure, I'm envious of your travel perks, but do thank my lucky stars for having the sense to be able to follow the salient points of a discussion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We always flew coach until we reached 60 then started flying business class internationally but economy domestically. We use to fly American because for many years their economy plus section had more leg room which was great then they abandoned that to cram in more seats. Once that was gone and we reached 65 we decided to give up the cattle car experience, fighting for an overhead bin and having the idiot in front of me throwing his seat all the back and jamming my knees. Domestic first class is nothing but a bigger seat and free booze but at our ages (70) I think we’ve earned it. International business class is a must because at 70, despite being in pretty good shape, sitting up all night is an awful way to start a trip.

If you have the money, why not? You don't get to take what you've saved with you when you die, so enjoy it while you can

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Over $20 million NW and always fly coach. We’re a short family (so leg room doe sad Much thanks matter so much) and no particular physical needs.

This is very interesting. I fly about twice a month for work and my company pays for first or business class regardless of distance or destination. On top of this, I fly with my family about six times a year. We always fly first or business class; seems weird I would do it for work but not for personal. I guess I’m only MC by DCUM standards with an HHI of $550K and a NW of $5M. Most of our business class is covered by FF miles or Global Services elite upgrades on United, but we still have a $50K / year travel budget to spend on first and business class, when necessary.

What do you plan to do with $20M in NW if not to live a little. Flying coach is like living in high density, low cost, suburban housing. Do people actually enjoy this? More seats for me and my kids, though…. Thanks!

DP here but with similar net worth. We do international travel for vacations about twice a year. However, we have always flown coach. Neither of us have any business travel so we don't earn points/miles that way, and our vacation travel also too infrequent. We don't generally budget - the concept is irrational to us, but to each their own. We spend money on things that bring us value that is congruent with the cost, and business class vs coach just doesn't work out on that front. For our most recent 2-week trip to Europe, coach tickets were about $4k, and business class would have been somewhere around $18k-$22k. This was a 9 hour flight. To put that into perspective, that's about $7.40 per minute per person just to enjoy the comforts of sitting/sleeping in business class. Jetlag is going to be an issue regardless of how much rest you get on the plane. That $16k is just going to be *FAR* more enjoyable elsewhere on the trip - 5-star accommodations, show tickets, fine dining, exclusive excursions, etc. Sure, with relatively high networth, we could afford all of those things in addition to paying $16k on business class, but one of the reasons we've been able to build our NW is to not waste it on things that don't bring us enjoyment that match the cost.

PP here. I wouldn’t spend $16K on business class tickets for a single trip either. That’s crazy. I might spend $6K on coach and then use PlusPoints to upgrade to business. I might spend $4K for my own business class ticket and then use FF miles for the rest of the family. Quite frankly, anyone paying cash out of pocket for all of their personal business or first class tickets is either ultra-rich or ultra-dumb.

You have got to take advantage of FF miles, hotel points, and elite status to cover the majority of your personal upgrades into luxury suites and comfortable seats. My family of four and I are traveling to France next week for seven nights. All four of us are flying business class round-trip on United. We also have two rooms booked at the Paris Park Hyatt Vendôme. Kids are sharing a room with 2 twin beds. DH and I have a Park Suite King. The total amount of cash we’re spending for 4 round-trip business class tickets and 1 room and 1 suite, each for 7 nights at a luxury hotel in Paris? $556, and this is just for taxes on the airfare!! The typical cash rates for these two rooms is €1,305 and €1,710, respectively. You’re spending more than 7X on just your coach airfare as I am on substantially more luxurious business airfare as well as top notch lodging. This is one of the reasons we've been able to build our NW: not wasting it on things that don't bring us enjoyment that match the cost.

PP here. That's apples and oranges. You can't earn this level of FF points and elite status by traveling twice a year for vacations like we do. You are subsidizing your vacation travel either by 1) frequent business travel paid for by others, or 2) earning points through credit card spending, which is money you could have otherwise earned as cash back at 2% or higher. You said it yourself that you have a 50k a year budget to pay for business class seats, which incidentally is about the amount of annual spend required to maintain United Global Services status. The fact that your were able to save up and target your points to pay for this one vacation travel neglects the fact that some people, including you, have poured money to earn these perks in the past - cost that can't be ignored just because you want to brag about laying less than 600 for a luxury vacation. Look, never mind the luxury hotel, if business class only cost 600 for four people, I would gladly pay for it. It doesn't.Business class tickets are expensive no matter how you paid for them - they are not worth it to me after a full accounting of the costs.

Just to clarify, this is a $50K travel budget total, and not all of it is spent on business and first class airfare. The $50K we spend in cash results in leisure travel that is easily worth $150K+, as it is heavily augmented with optimized use of FF miles and hotel points, both of which are earned at minimal cost via business travel. This is another form of career compensation that is particularly valuable to a travel-heavy family like ours. This is also hardly a once-in-a-lifetime occurrence; we travel like this as a family several times per year.

If you don’t have a job that provides this sort of compensation, you either need to be happy flying in coach and staying at dingy Airbnbs or you need to have a job that pays an additional $150K-$200K per year to cover additional, discretionary travel expenses. Not everyone is supposed to be able to afford to fly business class.

Even if you can afford it (most can't--airfare is crazy high currently), it's always a cost analysis. Bought holiday tickets, 5-6 hour domestic flights, already over $1500 per person (automatically put in economy plus), so not willing to pay the extra $1K/person for the daytime 6 hour flight. However, will try to use upgrades if airlines are kind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP here. Well, no sh*t Sherlock. This thread didn't ask "is a business class ticket worth it if it is paid for by other people". The entire premise here is paying out of one's own pocket. To be sure, I'm envious of your travel perks, but do thank my lucky stars for having the sense to be able to follow the salient points of a discussion.

Actually, the OP posted as follows:

At what HHI did you buy business or first class airfare for your family for international trips? We are a family of 4 and travel internationally 1-2x per year to Europe. I'm curious at what HHI folks switch from economy (which we still do) to business or first. I'm thinking of upgrading after a couple difficult trips.

The entire premise should not assume that you’re paying cash out of pocket for business class or first class airfare. Even smart use of travel rewards credit cards can generate more than enough FF miles to cover the cost of business class tickets. You can use a combination of Chase Sapphire Reserve and Freedom Unlimited credit cards to easily generate an average of 2 FF miles per $ spent. Money that you would have spent anyway. With a HHI of $400K, this could translate to $10K per month in CC spend no problem, which translates to 20,000 FF miles accumulated per month (more if you spend in the right categories). Every 24 months you’re earning enough to pay for 4 round-trip business class tickets to Europe that might otherwise cost $5K each or $20K total. You’re giving up what, a 2% cash back CC alternative which would be worth at most $5K over the same time frame? That’s a $15K advantage by using CC spend over paying cash.

So…even if you’re not at all a frequent flyer, if you’re always paying cash for business class airfare and holding out for a sufficiently high HHI to be able to afford to do so, you’re being quite foolish financially.

[Anonymous]

We make btw $3-5m each year (NW - over $20m). I have bought business class international tickets 1x (Middle East/Asia). Will do it again for Middle East/Africa for next December.

Otherwise we upgrade with miles/points. It’s pretty easy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here. Well, no sh*t Sherlock. This thread didn't ask "is a business class ticket worth it if it is paid for by other people". The entire premise here is paying out of one's own pocket. To be sure, I'm envious of your travel perks, but do thank my lucky stars for having the sense to be able to follow the salient points of a discussion.

Actually, the OP posted as follows:

At what HHI did you buy business or first class airfare for your family for international trips? We are a family of 4 and travel internationally 1-2x per year to Europe. I'm curious at what HHI folks switch from economy (which we still do) to business or first. I'm thinking of upgrading after a couple difficult trips.

The entire premise should not assume that you’re paying cash out of pocket for business class or first class airfare. Even smart use of travel rewards credit cards can generate more than enough FF miles to cover the cost of business class tickets. You can use a combination of Chase Sapphire Reserve and Freedom Unlimited credit cards to easily generate an average of 2 FF miles per $ spent. Money that you would have spent anyway. With a HHI of $400K, this could translate to $10K per month in CC spend no problem, which translates to 20,000 FF miles accumulated per month (more if you spend in the right categories). Every 24 months you’re earning enough to pay for 4 round-trip business class tickets to Europe that might otherwise cost $5K each or $20K total. You’re giving up what, a 2% cash back CC alternative which would be worth at most $5K over the same time frame? That’s a $15K advantage by using CC spend over paying cash.

So…even if you’re not at all a frequent flyer, if you’re always paying cash for business class airfare and holding out for a sufficiently high HHI to be able to afford to do so, you’re being quite foolish financially.

💯

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We make btw $3-5m each year (NW - over $20m). I have bought business class international tickets 1x (Middle East/Asia). Will do it again for Middle East/Africa for next December.

Otherwise we upgrade with miles/points. It’s pretty easy.

Why not more often?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Over $20 million NW and always fly coach. We’re a short family (so leg room doe sad Much thanks matter so much) and no particular physical needs.

This is very interesting. I fly about twice a month for work and my company pays for first or business class regardless of distance or destination. On top of this, I fly with my family about six times a year. We always fly first or business class; seems weird I would do it for work but not for personal. I guess I’m only MC by DCUM standards with an HHI of $550K and a NW of $5M. Most of our business class is covered by FF miles or Global Services elite upgrades on United, but we still have a $50K / year travel budget to spend on first and business class, when necessary.

What do you plan to do with $20M in NW if not to live a little. Flying coach is like living in high density, low cost, suburban housing. Do people actually enjoy this? More seats for me and my kids, though…. Thanks!

DP here but with similar net worth. We do international travel for vacations about twice a year. However, we have always flown coach. Neither of us have any business travel so we don't earn points/miles that way, and our vacation travel also too infrequent. We don't generally budget - the concept is irrational to us, but to each their own. We spend money on things that bring us value that is congruent with the cost, and business class vs coach just doesn't work out on that front. For our most recent 2-week trip to Europe, coach tickets were about $4k, and business class would have been somewhere around $18k-$22k. This was a 9 hour flight. To put that into perspective, that's about $7.40 per minute per person just to enjoy the comforts of sitting/sleeping in business class. Jetlag is going to be an issue regardless of how much rest you get on the plane. That $16k is just going to be *FAR* more enjoyable elsewhere on the trip - 5-star accommodations, show tickets, fine dining, exclusive excursions, etc. Sure, with relatively high networth, we could afford all of those things in addition to paying $16k on business class, but one of the reasons we've been able to build our NW is to not waste it on things that don't bring us enjoyment that match the cost.

PP here. I wouldn’t spend $16K on business class tickets for a single trip either. That’s crazy. I might spend $6K on coach and then use PlusPoints to upgrade to business. I might spend $4K for my own business class ticket and then use FF miles for the rest of the family. Quite frankly, anyone paying cash out of pocket for all of their personal business or first class tickets is either ultra-rich or ultra-dumb.

You have got to take advantage of FF miles, hotel points, and elite status to cover the majority of your personal upgrades into luxury suites and comfortable seats. My family of four and I are traveling to France next week for seven nights. All four of us are flying business class round-trip on United. We also have two rooms booked at the Paris Park Hyatt Vendôme. Kids are sharing a room with 2 twin beds. DH and I have a Park Suite King. The total amount of cash we’re spending for 4 round-trip business class tickets and 1 room and 1 suite, each for 7 nights at a luxury hotel in Paris? $556, and this is just for taxes on the airfare!! The typical cash rates for these two rooms is €1,305 and €1,710, respectively. You’re spending more than 7X on just your coach airfare as I am on substantially more luxurious business airfare as well as top notch lodging. This is one of the reasons we've been able to build our NW: not wasting it on things that don't bring us enjoyment that match the cost.

PP here. That's apples and oranges. You can't earn this level of FF points and elite status by traveling twice a year for vacations like we do. You are subsidizing your vacation travel either by 1) frequent business travel paid for by others, or 2) earning points through credit card spending, which is money you could have otherwise earned as cash back at 2% or higher. You said it yourself that you have a 50k a year budget to pay for business class seats, which incidentally is about the amount of annual spend required to maintain United Global Services status. The fact that your were able to save up and target your points to pay for this one vacation travel neglects the fact that some people, including you, have poured money to earn these perks in the past - cost that can't be ignored just because you want to brag about laying less than 600 for a luxury vacation. Look, never mind the luxury hotel, if business class only cost 600 for four people, I would gladly pay for it. It doesn't.Business class tickets are expensive no matter how you paid for them - they are not worth it to me after a full accounting of the costs.

Just to clarify, this is a $50K travel budget total, and not all of it is spent on business and first class airfare. The $50K we spend in cash results in leisure travel that is easily worth $150K+, as it is heavily augmented with optimized use of FF miles and hotel points, both of which are earned at minimal cost via business travel. This is another form of career compensation that is particularly valuable to a travel-heavy family like ours. This is also hardly a once-in-a-lifetime occurrence; we travel like this as a family several times per year.

If you don’t have a job that provides this sort of compensation, you either need to be happy flying in coach and staying at dingy Airbnbs or you need to have a job that pays an additional $150K-$200K per year to cover additional, discretionary travel expenses. Not everyone is supposed to be able to afford to fly business class.

PP here. Well, no sh*t Sherlock. This thread didn't ask "is a business class ticket worth it if it is paid for by other people". The entire premise here is paying out of one's own pocket. To be sure, I'm envious of your travel perks, but do thank my lucky stars for having the sense to be able to follow the salient points of a discussion.

🔥🔥🔥

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here. Well, no sh*t Sherlock. This thread didn't ask "is a business class ticket worth it if it is paid for by other people". The entire premise here is paying out of one's own pocket. To be sure, I'm envious of your travel perks, but do thank my lucky stars for having the sense to be able to follow the salient points of a discussion.

Actually, the OP posted as follows:

At what HHI did you buy business or first class airfare for your family for international trips? We are a family of 4 and travel internationally 1-2x per year to Europe. I'm curious at what HHI folks switch from economy (which we still do) to business or first. I'm thinking of upgrading after a couple difficult trips.

The entire premise should not assume that you’re paying cash out of pocket for business class or first class airfare. Even smart use of travel rewards credit cards can generate more than enough FF miles to cover the cost of business class tickets. You can use a combination of Chase Sapphire Reserve and Freedom Unlimited credit cards to easily generate an average of 2 FF miles per $ spent. Money that you would have spent anyway. With a HHI of $400K, this could translate to $10K per month in CC spend no problem, which translates to 20,000 FF miles accumulated per month (more if you spend in the right categories). Every 24 months you’re earning enough to pay for 4 round-trip business class tickets to Europe that might otherwise cost $5K each or $20K total. You’re giving up what, a 2% cash back CC alternative which would be worth at most $5K over the same time frame? That’s a $15K advantage by using CC spend over paying cash.

So…even if you’re not at all a frequent flyer, if you’re always paying cash for business class airfare and holding out for a sufficiently high HHI to be able to afford to do so, you’re being quite foolish financially.

That only works if you are traveling internationally every two years.

The only way to regularly fly business on upgrades is if you do a lot of business travel, which is an awful way to live and comes at a much higher cost than paying $15k for tickets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here. Well, no sh*t Sherlock. This thread didn't ask "is a business class ticket worth it if it is paid for by other people". The entire premise here is paying out of one's own pocket. To be sure, I'm envious of your travel perks, but do thank my lucky stars for having the sense to be able to follow the salient points of a discussion.

Actually, the OP posted as follows:

At what HHI did you buy business or first class airfare for your family for international trips? We are a family of 4 and travel internationally 1-2x per year to Europe. I'm curious at what HHI folks switch from economy (which we still do) to business or first. I'm thinking of upgrading after a couple difficult trips.

The entire premise should not assume that you’re paying cash out of pocket for business class or first class airfare. Even smart use of travel rewards credit cards can generate more than enough FF miles to cover the cost of business class tickets. You can use a combination of Chase Sapphire Reserve and Freedom Unlimited credit cards to easily generate an average of 2 FF miles per $ spent. Money that you would have spent anyway. With a HHI of $400K, this could translate to $10K per month in CC spend no problem, which translates to 20,000 FF miles accumulated per month (more if you spend in the right categories). Every 24 months you’re earning enough to pay for 4 round-trip business class tickets to Europe that might otherwise cost $5K each or $20K total. You’re giving up what, a 2% cash back CC alternative which would be worth at most $5K over the same time frame? That’s a $15K advantage by using CC spend over paying cash.

So…even if you’re not at all a frequent flyer, if you’re always paying cash for business class airfare and holding out for a sufficiently high HHI to be able to afford to do so, you’re being quite foolish financially.

This is pretty much us. We earn about 20-25K chase points per month just based on spend. Plus we probably earn another couple hundred thousand miles/points per year via business travel. It adds up!

[Anonymous]

First class is a ridiculous amount of money, mostly, but we can afford it and there is nothing more unpleasant than having some 275 lb guy next to you in a middle seat for four hours. They spread out like Jaba the Hutt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here. Well, no sh*t Sherlock. This thread didn't ask "is a business class ticket worth it if it is paid for by other people". The entire premise here is paying out of one's own pocket. To be sure, I'm envious of your travel perks, but do thank my lucky stars for having the sense to be able to follow the salient points of a discussion.

Actually, the OP posted as follows:

At what HHI did you buy business or first class airfare for your family for international trips? We are a family of 4 and travel internationally 1-2x per year to Europe. I'm curious at what HHI folks switch from economy (which we still do) to business or first. I'm thinking of upgrading after a couple difficult trips.

The entire premise should not assume that you’re paying cash out of pocket for business class or first class airfare. Even smart use of travel rewards credit cards can generate more than enough FF miles to cover the cost of business class tickets. You can use a combination of Chase Sapphire Reserve and Freedom Unlimited credit cards to easily generate an average of 2 FF miles per $ spent. Money that you would have spent anyway. With a HHI of $400K, this could translate to $10K per month in CC spend no problem, which translates to 20,000 FF miles accumulated per month (more if you spend in the right categories). Every 24 months you’re earning enough to pay for 4 round-trip business class tickets to Europe that might otherwise cost $5K each or $20K total. You’re giving up what, a 2% cash back CC alternative which would be worth at most $5K over the same time frame? That’s a $15K advantage by using CC spend over paying cash.

So…even if you’re not at all a frequent flyer, if you’re always paying cash for business class airfare and holding out for a sufficiently high HHI to be able to afford to do so, you’re being quite foolish financially.

That only works if you are traveling internationally every two years.

The only way to regularly fly business on upgrades is if you do a lot of business travel, which is an awful way to live and comes at a much higher cost than paying $15k for tickets.

Correction. It used to be this way. In reality, FF miles and hotel points are mostly accrued based on spending. You’ll earn just as many FF miles flying once per quarter on $10,000 business class tickets IAD-CPT than flying once per week on $700 coach tickets IAD-LHR. In the former scenario, you’re flying about 63,000 miles per year for business. In the latter scenario it’s more like 380,000. DH is an exec and all his business travel is in paid business or first class, but he’s gone maybe 7-8 days out of each month, mostly short trips IAD-SFO. It’s not ideal, but it’s not that bad either. His company probably spends $100K or so on his airfare each year, which generates a little over 1 million FF miles for us in business travel alone.