What needs to be done to repair damage of Covid/school closures/quarantines/Covid policy in DCPS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I also don’t get why we compare with other districts when we know historically teaching has been a ‘female job,’ and is underpaid throughout this nation, just as many nursing positions. If teaching was a revered field like being a doctor, I promise you would see more teachers and also in some cases better quality ones.

I realize this wasn't your main point, but the reason we compare is that the surrounding districts are the competition for hiring teachers.

We don't evaluate every job on the basis of what it means to society and pay accordingly, because how would you do that? It's all subjective. Wishing we did it that way won't change capitalism.

I think the relevant point is: DC has higher teacher salaries but can lose teachers to lower-paying surrounding districts for reasons other than pay. That means that you want to address those other reasons (at least first). It sounds like some of those reasons are COL and just having a demoralizing work environment. That work environment might be cured by XYZ (insert all of the stuff regularly discussed on DCUM).

But to get back to the point of the thread, even with a beautiful work environment and higher pay, would teachers be able to make up for the learning losses of the pandemic? Would any of that actually measurably help students? The end goal is students' education.

Sadly, the research is pretty clear that even the best teachers with the best support are unlikely to be able to ameliorate the effects of the closures and quarantines without funding for intensive support for the kids, including one-on-one tutoring. And that just isn't something we can provide in bulk, regardless of funding. There aren't enough potential support staff available in the entire region. I hate to be a downer but this is a generation of black and poor children in DC who will all experience lasting harmful effects.

I don’t agree, I can have had students grow 2 grade levels in 1 school year. BUT they were 2-3.5 grade levels behind, were at school 90-100% of the school year, and I got their parents involved at home.

People really don’t think acceleration is possible?? The issue is that when you have a child missing 70 days of school what do you expect? I can reach if I can’t teach. You think the average attendance of 126 days vs. at minimum 162 days doesn’t make a difference?

And what research? Because from my own and personal experience you can close the achievement gap with:
A good teacher
Minimal absences
Parental involvement
Student engagement
Decent class sizes
And optionally a strong teacher’s aide

What is the population you teach? And also, we are talking systematically, not just in your classroom. I am not denying that you are an exceptional teacher, but acknowledging that you are the exception, not the rule, is important.

I teach at a dcps title 1 school, with a high at risk population.

You don’t think if DCPS changed their absence and tardy policy things wouldn’t change? I’m not saying parents who have their children miss 20-100+ days of school should go to jail but there needs to be a tangible consequence such as a mandatory check in or be fined, then maybe a little jail time as a very, very, very last resort. Because CPS isn’t all that helpful, at least none of the parents at my school seem to give a crap. Something has got to give on this end, I love my parents, especially the tough ones who I have to wiggle my way to knowing. But tbh it’s exhausting to get these parents whose main job is a parent to be one.

More parental involvement would be great for parents especially of students with high needs, whether it’s academic, emotional, etc. It starts in elementary, why aren’t all DCPS schools Flamboyan or the like schools? It’s time for teacher compensated mandatory home visits.

Student engagement is a systemic issue. you know how many teachers think their point system, taking recess, seeing the dean or principal, in school suspension is working? Not many and if they do it’s because they don’t know any better.
Teachers are seldom trained in how to keep students engaged and no, engagement doesn’t mean a child who ‘hates’ math is going to love it. But why do they hate it and how can we incorporate their interests? If teachers had adequate planning time, as in it’s never taken away this could be something every individual teacher could work on.

I think I don’t have to explain overcrowding of classes.

A teacher’s aide in every class would be helpful too, more small groups and another adult to help de-escalate students as needed.

Idk the answers seem fairly clear to me but dcps will never do it. They don’t want to pay teachers, aides, and subs any more. Because let me tell you we have a huge shortage. Finding great people who are ok with 30k a year (aides) is almost impossible. They also don’t want to hold parents accountable for tardies and absences. It IS neglect if you allow your child to miss so much school.

I don't believe you teach at a Title 1 school. I actually question whether you've ever set foot in one. No one who works in that environment would advocate for JAIL TIME for parents who are already doing a poor job supervising and supporting their kids. Separating families, creating arrest records and convictions and putting even more stress on the families to "help" the kids is just dumb.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I also don’t get why we compare with other districts when we know historically teaching has been a ‘female job,’ and is underpaid throughout this nation, just as many nursing positions. If teaching was a revered field like being a doctor, I promise you would see more teachers and also in some cases better quality ones.

I realize this wasn't your main point, but the reason we compare is that the surrounding districts are the competition for hiring teachers.

We don't evaluate every job on the basis of what it means to society and pay accordingly, because how would you do that? It's all subjective. Wishing we did it that way won't change capitalism.

I think the relevant point is: DC has higher teacher salaries but can lose teachers to lower-paying surrounding districts for reasons other than pay. That means that you want to address those other reasons (at least first). It sounds like some of those reasons are COL and just having a demoralizing work environment. That work environment might be cured by XYZ (insert all of the stuff regularly discussed on DCUM).

But to get back to the point of the thread, even with a beautiful work environment and higher pay, would teachers be able to make up for the learning losses of the pandemic? Would any of that actually measurably help students? The end goal is students' education.

Sadly, the research is pretty clear that even the best teachers with the best support are unlikely to be able to ameliorate the effects of the closures and quarantines without funding for intensive support for the kids, including one-on-one tutoring. And that just isn't something we can provide in bulk, regardless of funding. There aren't enough potential support staff available in the entire region. I hate to be a downer but this is a generation of black and poor children in DC who will all experience lasting harmful effects.

I don’t agree, I can have had students grow 2 grade levels in 1 school year. BUT they were 2-3.5 grade levels behind, were at school 90-100% of the school year, and I got their parents involved at home.

People really don’t think acceleration is possible?? The issue is that when you have a child missing 70 days of school what do you expect? I can reach if I can’t teach. You think the average attendance of 126 days vs. at minimum 162 days doesn’t make a difference?

And what research? Because from my own and personal experience you can close the achievement gap with:
A good teacher
Minimal absences
Parental involvement
Student engagement
Decent class sizes
And optionally a strong teacher’s aide

What is the population you teach? And also, we are talking systematically, not just in your classroom. I am not denying that you are an exceptional teacher, but acknowledging that you are the exception, not the rule, is important.

I teach at a dcps title 1 school, with a high at risk population.

You don’t think if DCPS changed their absence and tardy policy things wouldn’t change? I’m not saying parents who have their children miss 20-100+ days of school should go to jail but there needs to be a tangible consequence such as a mandatory check in or be fined, then maybe a little jail time as a very, very, very last resort. Because CPS isn’t all that helpful, at least none of the parents at my school seem to give a crap. Something has got to give on this end, I love my parents, especially the tough ones who I have to wiggle my way to knowing. But tbh it’s exhausting to get these parents whose main job is a parent to be one.

More parental involvement would be great for parents especially of students with high needs, whether it’s academic, emotional, etc. It starts in elementary, why aren’t all DCPS schools Flamboyan or the like schools? It’s time for teacher compensated mandatory home visits.

Student engagement is a systemic issue. you know how many teachers think their point system, taking recess, seeing the dean or principal, in school suspension is working? Not many and if they do it’s because they don’t know any better.
Teachers are seldom trained in how to keep students engaged and no, engagement doesn’t mean a child who ‘hates’ math is going to love it. But why do they hate it and how can we incorporate their interests? If teachers had adequate planning time, as in it’s never taken away this could be something every individual teacher could work on.

I think I don’t have to explain overcrowding of classes.

A teacher’s aide in every class would be helpful too, more small groups and another adult to help de-escalate students as needed.

Idk the answers seem fairly clear to me but dcps will never do it. They don’t want to pay teachers, aides, and subs any more. Because let me tell you we have a huge shortage. Finding great people who are ok with 30k a year (aides) is almost impossible. They also don’t want to hold parents accountable for tardies and absences. It IS neglect if you allow your child to miss so much school.

If the problem lies with parents, then the solution does not seem to be to pay teachers more.

Does anyone have examples -- from research -- where schools were able to help high-percentage-poverty kids raise their test scores?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I also don’t get why we compare with other districts when we know historically teaching has been a ‘female job,’ and is underpaid throughout this nation, just as many nursing positions. If teaching was a revered field like being a doctor, I promise you would see more teachers and also in some cases better quality ones.

I realize this wasn't your main point, but the reason we compare is that the surrounding districts are the competition for hiring teachers.

We don't evaluate every job on the basis of what it means to society and pay accordingly, because how would you do that? It's all subjective. Wishing we did it that way won't change capitalism.

I think the relevant point is: DC has higher teacher salaries but can lose teachers to lower-paying surrounding districts for reasons other than pay. That means that you want to address those other reasons (at least first). It sounds like some of those reasons are COL and just having a demoralizing work environment. That work environment might be cured by XYZ (insert all of the stuff regularly discussed on DCUM).

But to get back to the point of the thread, even with a beautiful work environment and higher pay, would teachers be able to make up for the learning losses of the pandemic? Would any of that actually measurably help students? The end goal is students' education.

Sadly, the research is pretty clear that even the best teachers with the best support are unlikely to be able to ameliorate the effects of the closures and quarantines without funding for intensive support for the kids, including one-on-one tutoring. And that just isn't something we can provide in bulk, regardless of funding. There aren't enough potential support staff available in the entire region. I hate to be a downer but this is a generation of black and poor children in DC who will all experience lasting harmful effects.

I don’t agree, I can have had students grow 2 grade levels in 1 school year. BUT they were 2-3.5 grade levels behind, were at school 90-100% of the school year, and I got their parents involved at home.

People really don’t think acceleration is possible?? The issue is that when you have a child missing 70 days of school what do you expect? I can reach if I can’t teach. You think the average attendance of 126 days vs. at minimum 162 days doesn’t make a difference?

And what research? Because from my own and personal experience you can close the achievement gap with:
A good teacher
Minimal absences
Parental involvement
Student engagement
Decent class sizes
And optionally a strong teacher’s aide

What is the population you teach? And also, we are talking systematically, not just in your classroom. I am not denying that you are an exceptional teacher, but acknowledging that you are the exception, not the rule, is important.

I teach at a dcps title 1 school, with a high at risk population.

You don’t think if DCPS changed their absence and tardy policy things wouldn’t change? I’m not saying parents who have their children miss 20-100+ days of school should go to jail but there needs to be a tangible consequence such as a mandatory check in or be fined, then maybe a little jail time as a very, very, very last resort. Because CPS isn’t all that helpful, at least none of the parents at my school seem to give a crap. Something has got to give on this end, I love my parents, especially the tough ones who I have to wiggle my way to knowing. But tbh it’s exhausting to get these parents whose main job is a parent to be one.

More parental involvement would be great for parents especially of students with high needs, whether it’s academic, emotional, etc. It starts in elementary, why aren’t all DCPS schools Flamboyan or the like schools? It’s time for teacher compensated mandatory home visits.

Student engagement is a systemic issue. you know how many teachers think their point system, taking recess, seeing the dean or principal, in school suspension is working? Not many and if they do it’s because they don’t know any better.
Teachers are seldom trained in how to keep students engaged and no, engagement doesn’t mean a child who ‘hates’ math is going to love it. But why do they hate it and how can we incorporate their interests? If teachers had adequate planning time, as in it’s never taken away this could be something every individual teacher could work on.

I think I don’t have to explain overcrowding of classes.

A teacher’s aide in every class would be helpful too, more small groups and another adult to help de-escalate students as needed.

Idk the answers seem fairly clear to me but dcps will never do it. They don’t want to pay teachers, aides, and subs any more. Because let me tell you we have a huge shortage. Finding great people who are ok with 30k a year (aides) is almost impossible. They also don’t want to hold parents accountable for tardies and absences. It IS neglect if you allow your child to miss so much school.

I don't believe you teach at a Title 1 school. I actually question whether you've ever set foot in one. No one who works in that environment would advocate for JAIL TIME for parents who are already doing a poor job supervising and supporting their kids. Separating families, creating arrest records and convictions and putting even more stress on the families to "help" the kids is just dumb.

Our current Vice President bragged about doing just that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I also don’t get why we compare with other districts when we know historically teaching has been a ‘female job,’ and is underpaid throughout this nation, just as many nursing positions. If teaching was a revered field like being a doctor, I promise you would see more teachers and also in some cases better quality ones.

I realize this wasn't your main point, but the reason we compare is that the surrounding districts are the competition for hiring teachers.

We don't evaluate every job on the basis of what it means to society and pay accordingly, because how would you do that? It's all subjective. Wishing we did it that way won't change capitalism.

I think the relevant point is: DC has higher teacher salaries but can lose teachers to lower-paying surrounding districts for reasons other than pay. That means that you want to address those other reasons (at least first). It sounds like some of those reasons are COL and just having a demoralizing work environment. That work environment might be cured by XYZ (insert all of the stuff regularly discussed on DCUM).

But to get back to the point of the thread, even with a beautiful work environment and higher pay, would teachers be able to make up for the learning losses of the pandemic? Would any of that actually measurably help students? The end goal is students' education.

Sadly, the research is pretty clear that even the best teachers with the best support are unlikely to be able to ameliorate the effects of the closures and quarantines without funding for intensive support for the kids, including one-on-one tutoring. And that just isn't something we can provide in bulk, regardless of funding. There aren't enough potential support staff available in the entire region. I hate to be a downer but this is a generation of black and poor children in DC who will all experience lasting harmful effects.

I don’t agree, I can have had students grow 2 grade levels in 1 school year. BUT they were 2-3.5 grade levels behind, were at school 90-100% of the school year, and I got their parents involved at home.

People really don’t think acceleration is possible?? The issue is that when you have a child missing 70 days of school what do you expect? I can reach if I can’t teach. You think the average attendance of 126 days vs. at minimum 162 days doesn’t make a difference?

And what research? Because from my own and personal experience you can close the achievement gap with:
A good teacher
Minimal absences
Parental involvement
Student engagement
Decent class sizes
And optionally a strong teacher’s aide

What is the population you teach? And also, we are talking systematically, not just in your classroom. I am not denying that you are an exceptional teacher, but acknowledging that you are the exception, not the rule, is important.

I teach at a dcps title 1 school, with a high at risk population.

You don’t think if DCPS changed their absence and tardy policy things wouldn’t change? I’m not saying parents who have their children miss 20-100+ days of school should go to jail but there needs to be a tangible consequence such as a mandatory check in or be fined, then maybe a little jail time as a very, very, very last resort. Because CPS isn’t all that helpful, at least none of the parents at my school seem to give a crap. Something has got to give on this end, I love my parents, especially the tough ones who I have to wiggle my way to knowing. But tbh it’s exhausting to get these parents whose main job is a parent to be one.

More parental involvement would be great for parents especially of students with high needs, whether it’s academic, emotional, etc. It starts in elementary, why aren’t all DCPS schools Flamboyan or the like schools? It’s time for teacher compensated mandatory home visits.

Student engagement is a systemic issue. you know how many teachers think their point system, taking recess, seeing the dean or principal, in school suspension is working? Not many and if they do it’s because they don’t know any better.
Teachers are seldom trained in how to keep students engaged and no, engagement doesn’t mean a child who ‘hates’ math is going to love it. But why do they hate it and how can we incorporate their interests? If teachers had adequate planning time, as in it’s never taken away this could be something every individual teacher could work on.

I think I don’t have to explain overcrowding of classes.

A teacher’s aide in every class would be helpful too, more small groups and another adult to help de-escalate students as needed.

Idk the answers seem fairly clear to me but dcps will never do it. They don’t want to pay teachers, aides, and subs any more. Because let me tell you we have a huge shortage. Finding great people who are ok with 30k a year (aides) is almost impossible. They also don’t want to hold parents accountable for tardies and absences. It IS neglect if you allow your child to miss so much school.

I don't believe you teach at a Title 1 school. I actually question whether you've ever set foot in one. No one who works in that environment would advocate for JAIL TIME for parents who are already doing a poor job supervising and supporting their kids. Separating families, creating arrest records and convictions and putting even more stress on the families to "help" the kids is just dumb.

I think the teacher PP had some excellent points. There is some optimal balance to strike between indulgent understanding and tough love. For families in a stressed state, many could use some clarity about what the priorities are, and the teacher is saying getting kids to school needs to be a top priority.

No doubt when there are competing urgent needs, forgoing school attendance often seems like the expedient choice (sort of like society did with closing schools during the pandemic). But for the kids, getting to school is *the way* out of the crisis situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I also don’t get why we compare with other districts when we know historically teaching has been a ‘female job,’ and is underpaid throughout this nation, just as many nursing positions. If teaching was a revered field like being a doctor, I promise you would see more teachers and also in some cases better quality ones.

I realize this wasn't your main point, but the reason we compare is that the surrounding districts are the competition for hiring teachers.

We don't evaluate every job on the basis of what it means to society and pay accordingly, because how would you do that? It's all subjective. Wishing we did it that way won't change capitalism.

I think the relevant point is: DC has higher teacher salaries but can lose teachers to lower-paying surrounding districts for reasons other than pay. That means that you want to address those other reasons (at least first). It sounds like some of those reasons are COL and just having a demoralizing work environment. That work environment might be cured by XYZ (insert all of the stuff regularly discussed on DCUM).

But to get back to the point of the thread, even with a beautiful work environment and higher pay, would teachers be able to make up for the learning losses of the pandemic? Would any of that actually measurably help students? The end goal is students' education.

Sadly, the research is pretty clear that even the best teachers with the best support are unlikely to be able to ameliorate the effects of the closures and quarantines without funding for intensive support for the kids, including one-on-one tutoring. And that just isn't something we can provide in bulk, regardless of funding. There aren't enough potential support staff available in the entire region. I hate to be a downer but this is a generation of black and poor children in DC who will all experience lasting harmful effects.

I don’t agree, I can have had students grow 2 grade levels in 1 school year. BUT they were 2-3.5 grade levels behind, were at school 90-100% of the school year, and I got their parents involved at home.

People really don’t think acceleration is possible?? The issue is that when you have a child missing 70 days of school what do you expect? I can reach if I can’t teach. You think the average attendance of 126 days vs. at minimum 162 days doesn’t make a difference?

And what research? Because from my own and personal experience you can close the achievement gap with:
A good teacher
Minimal absences
Parental involvement
Student engagement
Decent class sizes
And optionally a strong teacher’s aide

What is the population you teach? And also, we are talking systematically, not just in your classroom. I am not denying that you are an exceptional teacher, but acknowledging that you are the exception, not the rule, is important.

I teach at a dcps title 1 school, with a high at risk population.

You don’t think if DCPS changed their absence and tardy policy things wouldn’t change? I’m not saying parents who have their children miss 20-100+ days of school should go to jail but there needs to be a tangible consequence such as a mandatory check in or be fined, then maybe a little jail time as a very, very, very last resort. Because CPS isn’t all that helpful, at least none of the parents at my school seem to give a crap. Something has got to give on this end, I love my parents, especially the tough ones who I have to wiggle my way to knowing. But tbh it’s exhausting to get these parents whose main job is a parent to be one.

More parental involvement would be great for parents especially of students with high needs, whether it’s academic, emotional, etc. It starts in elementary, why aren’t all DCPS schools Flamboyan or the like schools? It’s time for teacher compensated mandatory home visits.

Student engagement is a systemic issue. you know how many teachers think their point system, taking recess, seeing the dean or principal, in school suspension is working? Not many and if they do it’s because they don’t know any better.
Teachers are seldom trained in how to keep students engaged and no, engagement doesn’t mean a child who ‘hates’ math is going to love it. But why do they hate it and how can we incorporate their interests? If teachers had adequate planning time, as in it’s never taken away this could be something every individual teacher could work on.

I think I don’t have to explain overcrowding of classes.

A teacher’s aide in every class would be helpful too, more small groups and another adult to help de-escalate students as needed.

Idk the answers seem fairly clear to me but dcps will never do it. They don’t want to pay teachers, aides, and subs any more. Because let me tell you we have a huge shortage. Finding great people who are ok with 30k a year (aides) is almost impossible. They also don’t want to hold parents accountable for tardies and absences. It IS neglect if you allow your child to miss so much school.

I don't believe you teach at a Title 1 school. I actually question whether you've ever set foot in one. No one who works in that environment would advocate for JAIL TIME for parents who are already doing a poor job supervising and supporting their kids. Separating families, creating arrest records and convictions and putting even more stress on the families to "help" the kids is just dumb.

Are you kidding me, just because I don’t share your opinion? Ha. Also where is your solution for parents you cannot reach? Oh yea the same thing that’s been happening, kids who can’t read in HS and passing kids on a 5th grade level or who missed 50+ days and turned in nothing.

Nice. And by your logic if a child is being hit or not fed the parents don’t deserve jail? Not taking your child to school is called educational neglect for a reason. You must not actually value education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I also don’t get why we compare with other districts when we know historically teaching has been a ‘female job,’ and is underpaid throughout this nation, just as many nursing positions. If teaching was a revered field like being a doctor, I promise you would see more teachers and also in some cases better quality ones.

I realize this wasn't your main point, but the reason we compare is that the surrounding districts are the competition for hiring teachers.

We don't evaluate every job on the basis of what it means to society and pay accordingly, because how would you do that? It's all subjective. Wishing we did it that way won't change capitalism.

I think the relevant point is: DC has higher teacher salaries but can lose teachers to lower-paying surrounding districts for reasons other than pay. That means that you want to address those other reasons (at least first). It sounds like some of those reasons are COL and just having a demoralizing work environment. That work environment might be cured by XYZ (insert all of the stuff regularly discussed on DCUM).

But to get back to the point of the thread, even with a beautiful work environment and higher pay, would teachers be able to make up for the learning losses of the pandemic? Would any of that actually measurably help students? The end goal is students' education.

Sadly, the research is pretty clear that even the best teachers with the best support are unlikely to be able to ameliorate the effects of the closures and quarantines without funding for intensive support for the kids, including one-on-one tutoring. And that just isn't something we can provide in bulk, regardless of funding. There aren't enough potential support staff available in the entire region. I hate to be a downer but this is a generation of black and poor children in DC who will all experience lasting harmful effects.

I don’t agree, I can have had students grow 2 grade levels in 1 school year. BUT they were 2-3.5 grade levels behind, were at school 90-100% of the school year, and I got their parents involved at home.

People really don’t think acceleration is possible?? The issue is that when you have a child missing 70 days of school what do you expect? I can reach if I can’t teach. You think the average attendance of 126 days vs. at minimum 162 days doesn’t make a difference?

And what research? Because from my own and personal experience you can close the achievement gap with:
A good teacher
Minimal absences
Parental involvement
Student engagement
Decent class sizes
And optionally a strong teacher’s aide

What is the population you teach? And also, we are talking systematically, not just in your classroom. I am not denying that you are an exceptional teacher, but acknowledging that you are the exception, not the rule, is important.

I teach at a dcps title 1 school, with a high at risk population.

You don’t think if DCPS changed their absence and tardy policy things wouldn’t change? I’m not saying parents who have their children miss 20-100+ days of school should go to jail but there needs to be a tangible consequence such as a mandatory check in or be fined, then maybe a little jail time as a very, very, very last resort. Because CPS isn’t all that helpful, at least none of the parents at my school seem to give a crap. Something has got to give on this end, I love my parents, especially the tough ones who I have to wiggle my way to knowing. But tbh it’s exhausting to get these parents whose main job is a parent to be one.

More parental involvement would be great for parents especially of students with high needs, whether it’s academic, emotional, etc. It starts in elementary, why aren’t all DCPS schools Flamboyan or the like schools? It’s time for teacher compensated mandatory home visits.

Student engagement is a systemic issue. you know how many teachers think their point system, taking recess, seeing the dean or principal, in school suspension is working? Not many and if they do it’s because they don’t know any better.
Teachers are seldom trained in how to keep students engaged and no, engagement doesn’t mean a child who ‘hates’ math is going to love it. But why do they hate it and how can we incorporate their interests? If teachers had adequate planning time, as in it’s never taken away this could be something every individual teacher could work on.

I think I don’t have to explain overcrowding of classes.

A teacher’s aide in every class would be helpful too, more small groups and another adult to help de-escalate students as needed.

Idk the answers seem fairly clear to me but dcps will never do it. They don’t want to pay teachers, aides, and subs any more. Because let me tell you we have a huge shortage. Finding great people who are ok with 30k a year (aides) is almost impossible. They also don’t want to hold parents accountable for tardies and absences. It IS neglect if you allow your child to miss so much school.

I don't believe you teach at a Title 1 school. I actually question whether you've ever set foot in one. No one who works in that environment would advocate for JAIL TIME for parents who are already doing a poor job supervising and supporting their kids. Separating families, creating arrest records and convictions and putting even more stress on the families to "help" the kids is just dumb.

Our current Vice President bragged about doing just that.

Great. And just an FYI I stated it as a last resort, I guess the ‘very’s’ don’t translate. Some parents even if they get free groceries, given a job (yes, my admin hired a parent for a para position), we have also done trainings on how to go back to school or acquire a job. But let’s be honest, unless you already have a criminal record there are a crazy amount of job openings. We’ve had workshops on trauma, our counselor and social worker are available, as well as outside resources.
We’ve had workshops on how to engage your child at home as well.

Other schools can do that too but sometimes they lack the time and don’t want to compensate staff who run these workshops.

And the person above this post accusing me of not being at a title 1 school, what do you think of parents whose kids are chronically absent and tardy but their kid always had Jordan’s Let’s not act like some of these families just don’t have their priorities straight and even after being given all the help they don’t respond. Even if you work 80 hours a week you have to make time for your child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I also don’t get why we compare with other districts when we know historically teaching has been a ‘female job,’ and is underpaid throughout this nation, just as many nursing positions. If teaching was a revered field like being a doctor, I promise you would see more teachers and also in some cases better quality ones.

I realize this wasn't your main point, but the reason we compare is that the surrounding districts are the competition for hiring teachers.

We don't evaluate every job on the basis of what it means to society and pay accordingly, because how would you do that? It's all subjective. Wishing we did it that way won't change capitalism.

I think the relevant point is: DC has higher teacher salaries but can lose teachers to lower-paying surrounding districts for reasons other than pay. That means that you want to address those other reasons (at least first). It sounds like some of those reasons are COL and just having a demoralizing work environment. That work environment might be cured by XYZ (insert all of the stuff regularly discussed on DCUM).

But to get back to the point of the thread, even with a beautiful work environment and higher pay, would teachers be able to make up for the learning losses of the pandemic? Would any of that actually measurably help students? The end goal is students' education.

Sadly, the research is pretty clear that even the best teachers with the best support are unlikely to be able to ameliorate the effects of the closures and quarantines without funding for intensive support for the kids, including one-on-one tutoring. And that just isn't something we can provide in bulk, regardless of funding. There aren't enough potential support staff available in the entire region. I hate to be a downer but this is a generation of black and poor children in DC who will all experience lasting harmful effects.

I don’t agree, I can have had students grow 2 grade levels in 1 school year. BUT they were 2-3.5 grade levels behind, were at school 90-100% of the school year, and I got their parents involved at home.

People really don’t think acceleration is possible?? The issue is that when you have a child missing 70 days of school what do you expect? I can reach if I can’t teach. You think the average attendance of 126 days vs. at minimum 162 days doesn’t make a difference?

And what research? Because from my own and personal experience you can close the achievement gap with:
A good teacher
Minimal absences
Parental involvement
Student engagement
Decent class sizes
And optionally a strong teacher’s aide

What is the population you teach? And also, we are talking systematically, not just in your classroom. I am not denying that you are an exceptional teacher, but acknowledging that you are the exception, not the rule, is important.

I teach at a dcps title 1 school, with a high at risk population.

You don’t think if DCPS changed their absence and tardy policy things wouldn’t change? I’m not saying parents who have their children miss 20-100+ days of school should go to jail but there needs to be a tangible consequence such as a mandatory check in or be fined, then maybe a little jail time as a very, very, very last resort. Because CPS isn’t all that helpful, at least none of the parents at my school seem to give a crap. Something has got to give on this end, I love my parents, especially the tough ones who I have to wiggle my way to knowing. But tbh it’s exhausting to get these parents whose main job is a parent to be one.

More parental involvement would be great for parents especially of students with high needs, whether it’s academic, emotional, etc. It starts in elementary, why aren’t all DCPS schools Flamboyan or the like schools? It’s time for teacher compensated mandatory home visits.

Student engagement is a systemic issue. you know how many teachers think their point system, taking recess, seeing the dean or principal, in school suspension is working? Not many and if they do it’s because they don’t know any better.
Teachers are seldom trained in how to keep students engaged and no, engagement doesn’t mean a child who ‘hates’ math is going to love it. But why do they hate it and how can we incorporate their interests? If teachers had adequate planning time, as in it’s never taken away this could be something every individual teacher could work on.

I think I don’t have to explain overcrowding of classes.

A teacher’s aide in every class would be helpful too, more small groups and another adult to help de-escalate students as needed.

Idk the answers seem fairly clear to me but dcps will never do it. They don’t want to pay teachers, aides, and subs any more. Because let me tell you we have a huge shortage. Finding great people who are ok with 30k a year (aides) is almost impossible. They also don’t want to hold parents accountable for tardies and absences. It IS neglect if you allow your child to miss so much school.

If the problem lies with parents, then the solution does not seem to be to pay teachers more.

Does anyone have examples -- from research -- where schools were able to help high-percentage-poverty kids raise their test scores?

Why do some of you keep cherry picking? The whole issue is not parents. There are till a ton of openings, especially in the high needs areas. And this is from research, if you care do it lmao. I’m not invested in this convo enough to do it for someone who doesn’t want to pay all school staff more, even if especially for paras it’s a reason they don’t work for DCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I also don’t get why we compare with other districts when we know historically teaching has been a ‘female job,’ and is underpaid throughout this nation, just as many nursing positions. If teaching was a revered field like being a doctor, I promise you would see more teachers and also in some cases better quality ones.

I realize this wasn't your main point, but the reason we compare is that the surrounding districts are the competition for hiring teachers.

We don't evaluate every job on the basis of what it means to society and pay accordingly, because how would you do that? It's all subjective. Wishing we did it that way won't change capitalism.

I think the relevant point is: DC has higher teacher salaries but can lose teachers to lower-paying surrounding districts for reasons other than pay. That means that you want to address those other reasons (at least first). It sounds like some of those reasons are COL and just having a demoralizing work environment. That work environment might be cured by XYZ (insert all of the stuff regularly discussed on DCUM).

But to get back to the point of the thread, even with a beautiful work environment and higher pay, would teachers be able to make up for the learning losses of the pandemic? Would any of that actually measurably help students? The end goal is students' education.

Sadly, the research is pretty clear that even the best teachers with the best support are unlikely to be able to ameliorate the effects of the closures and quarantines without funding for intensive support for the kids, including one-on-one tutoring. And that just isn't something we can provide in bulk, regardless of funding. There aren't enough potential support staff available in the entire region. I hate to be a downer but this is a generation of black and poor children in DC who will all experience lasting harmful effects.

I don’t agree, I can have had students grow 2 grade levels in 1 school year. BUT they were 2-3.5 grade levels behind, were at school 90-100% of the school year, and I got their parents involved at home.

People really don’t think acceleration is possible?? The issue is that when you have a child missing 70 days of school what do you expect? I can reach if I can’t teach. You think the average attendance of 126 days vs. at minimum 162 days doesn’t make a difference?

And what research? Because from my own and personal experience you can close the achievement gap with:
A good teacher
Minimal absences
Parental involvement
Student engagement
Decent class sizes
And optionally a strong teacher’s aide

What is the population you teach? And also, we are talking systematically, not just in your classroom. I am not denying that you are an exceptional teacher, but acknowledging that you are the exception, not the rule, is important.

I teach at a dcps title 1 school, with a high at risk population.

You don’t think if DCPS changed their absence and tardy policy things wouldn’t change? I’m not saying parents who have their children miss 20-100+ days of school should go to jail but there needs to be a tangible consequence such as a mandatory check in or be fined, then maybe a little jail time as a very, very, very last resort. Because CPS isn’t all that helpful, at least none of the parents at my school seem to give a crap. Something has got to give on this end, I love my parents, especially the tough ones who I have to wiggle my way to knowing. But tbh it’s exhausting to get these parents whose main job is a parent to be one.

More parental involvement would be great for parents especially of students with high needs, whether it’s academic, emotional, etc. It starts in elementary, why aren’t all DCPS schools Flamboyan or the like schools? It’s time for teacher compensated mandatory home visits.

Student engagement is a systemic issue. you know how many teachers think their point system, taking recess, seeing the dean or principal, in school suspension is working? Not many and if they do it’s because they don’t know any better.
Teachers are seldom trained in how to keep students engaged and no, engagement doesn’t mean a child who ‘hates’ math is going to love it. But why do they hate it and how can we incorporate their interests? If teachers had adequate planning time, as in it’s never taken away this could be something every individual teacher could work on.

I think I don’t have to explain overcrowding of classes.

A teacher’s aide in every class would be helpful too, more small groups and another adult to help de-escalate students as needed.

Idk the answers seem fairly clear to me but dcps will never do it. They don’t want to pay teachers, aides, and subs any more. Because let me tell you we have a huge shortage. Finding great people who are ok with 30k a year (aides) is almost impossible. They also don’t want to hold parents accountable for tardies and absences. It IS neglect if you allow your child to miss so much school.

If the problem lies with parents, then the solution does not seem to be to pay teachers more.

Does anyone have examples -- from research -- where schools were able to help high-percentage-poverty kids raise their test scores?

Why do some of you keep cherry picking? The whole issue is not parents. There are till a ton of openings, especially in the high needs areas. And this is from research, if you care do it lmao. I’m not invested in this convo enough to do it for someone who doesn’t want to pay all school staff more, even if especially for paras it’s a reason they don’t work for DCPS.

Apologies. I did not mean to convey that teachers shouldn't be paid more, or that there's no research that teachers can improve schools.

The point was that the poster (maybe you) discussed all of the issues with parents, and then concluded with paying teachers more. I'm not suggesting that teachers shouldn't get paid more, just that the logical conclusion to "parents aren't parenting" is not "pay teachers more." Paying teachers more won't solve the parenting problems.

I agree that there are parents who are falling down on the job, for a variety of reasons. Those reasons seem to have a lot to do with poverty, but it sounds like a lot of stuff.

My question about the research wasn't facetious, although re-reading it does sound like I was saying that. It was legitimately whether there were instances where schools could overcome the issues coming from outside of school (kids in poverty/detached parents). It would be useful to know what those tactics are, since the problems seem systemic and much larger than just what could be done inside the school building.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I also don’t get why we compare with other districts when we know historically teaching has been a ‘female job,’ and is underpaid throughout this nation, just as many nursing positions. If teaching was a revered field like being a doctor, I promise you would see more teachers and also in some cases better quality ones.

I realize this wasn't your main point, but the reason we compare is that the surrounding districts are the competition for hiring teachers.

We don't evaluate every job on the basis of what it means to society and pay accordingly, because how would you do that? It's all subjective. Wishing we did it that way won't change capitalism.

I think the relevant point is: DC has higher teacher salaries but can lose teachers to lower-paying surrounding districts for reasons other than pay. That means that you want to address those other reasons (at least first). It sounds like some of those reasons are COL and just having a demoralizing work environment. That work environment might be cured by XYZ (insert all of the stuff regularly discussed on DCUM).

But to get back to the point of the thread, even with a beautiful work environment and higher pay, would teachers be able to make up for the learning losses of the pandemic? Would any of that actually measurably help students? The end goal is students' education.

Sadly, the research is pretty clear that even the best teachers with the best support are unlikely to be able to ameliorate the effects of the closures and quarantines without funding for intensive support for the kids, including one-on-one tutoring. And that just isn't something we can provide in bulk, regardless of funding. There aren't enough potential support staff available in the entire region. I hate to be a downer but this is a generation of black and poor children in DC who will all experience lasting harmful effects.

I don’t agree, I can have had students grow 2 grade levels in 1 school year. BUT they were 2-3.5 grade levels behind, were at school 90-100% of the school year, and I got their parents involved at home.

People really don’t think acceleration is possible?? The issue is that when you have a child missing 70 days of school what do you expect? I can reach if I can’t teach. You think the average attendance of 126 days vs. at minimum 162 days doesn’t make a difference?

And what research? Because from my own and personal experience you can close the achievement gap with:
A good teacher
Minimal absences
Parental involvement
Student engagement
Decent class sizes
And optionally a strong teacher’s aide

What is the population you teach? And also, we are talking systematically, not just in your classroom. I am not denying that you are an exceptional teacher, but acknowledging that you are the exception, not the rule, is important.

I teach at a dcps title 1 school, with a high at risk population.

You don’t think if DCPS changed their absence and tardy policy things wouldn’t change? I’m not saying parents who have their children miss 20-100+ days of school should go to jail but there needs to be a tangible consequence such as a mandatory check in or be fined, then maybe a little jail time as a very, very, very last resort. Because CPS isn’t all that helpful, at least none of the parents at my school seem to give a crap. Something has got to give on this end, I love my parents, especially the tough ones who I have to wiggle my way to knowing. But tbh it’s exhausting to get these parents whose main job is a parent to be one.

More parental involvement would be great for parents especially of students with high needs, whether it’s academic, emotional, etc. It starts in elementary, why aren’t all DCPS schools Flamboyan or the like schools? It’s time for teacher compensated mandatory home visits.

Student engagement is a systemic issue. you know how many teachers think their point system, taking recess, seeing the dean or principal, in school suspension is working? Not many and if they do it’s because they don’t know any better.
Teachers are seldom trained in how to keep students engaged and no, engagement doesn’t mean a child who ‘hates’ math is going to love it. But why do they hate it and how can we incorporate their interests? If teachers had adequate planning time, as in it’s never taken away this could be something every individual teacher could work on.

I think I don’t have to explain overcrowding of classes.

A teacher’s aide in every class would be helpful too, more small groups and another adult to help de-escalate students as needed.

Idk the answers seem fairly clear to me but dcps will never do it. They don’t want to pay teachers, aides, and subs any more. Because let me tell you we have a huge shortage. Finding great people who are ok with 30k a year (aides) is almost impossible. They also don’t want to hold parents accountable for tardies and absences. It IS neglect if you allow your child to miss so much school.

If the problem lies with parents, then the solution does not seem to be to pay teachers more.

Does anyone have examples -- from research -- where schools were able to help high-percentage-poverty kids raise their test scores?

Why do some of you keep cherry picking? The whole issue is not parents. There are till a ton of openings, especially in the high needs areas. And this is from research, if you care do it lmao. I’m not invested in this convo enough to do it for someone who doesn’t want to pay all school staff more, even if especially for paras it’s a reason they don’t work for DCPS.

Apologies. I did not mean to convey that teachers shouldn't be paid more, or that there's no research that teachers can improve schools.

The point was that the poster (maybe you) discussed all of the issues with parents, and then concluded with paying teachers more. I'm not suggesting that teachers shouldn't get paid more, just that the logical conclusion to "parents aren't parenting" is not "pay teachers more." Paying teachers more won't solve the parenting problems.

I agree that there are parents who are falling down on the job, for a variety of reasons. Those reasons seem to have a lot to do with poverty, but it sounds like a lot of stuff.

My question about the research wasn't facetious, although re-reading it does sound like I was saying that. It was legitimately whether there were instances where schools could overcome the issues coming from outside of school (kids in poverty/detached parents). It would be useful to know what those tactics are, since the problems seem systemic and much larger than just what could be done inside the school building.

The fact that there are so many issues outside of school buildings that impact academic success is exactly why we keep bringing more community resources into schools, like increased meal services, therapy and medical care access, even laundry facilities. But then we have people complaining that school is doing too much and should focus on academics only and that caring for children should fall outside the scope of schools.

Personally, I think it's good for these resources to be housed in public school buildings. Most children are required to be at schools regularly, and this may be the only time outsiders clap eyes on the child. It is an important social and safety public service. The fact is that current "bad" parents are not going to suddenly improve if we go to their homes and tell them with enough passion that they need to be more involved in schooling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I also don’t get why we compare with other districts when we know historically teaching has been a ‘female job,’ and is underpaid throughout this nation, just as many nursing positions. If teaching was a revered field like being a doctor, I promise you would see more teachers and also in some cases better quality ones.

I realize this wasn't your main point, but the reason we compare is that the surrounding districts are the competition for hiring teachers.

We don't evaluate every job on the basis of what it means to society and pay accordingly, because how would you do that? It's all subjective. Wishing we did it that way won't change capitalism.

I think the relevant point is: DC has higher teacher salaries but can lose teachers to lower-paying surrounding districts for reasons other than pay. That means that you want to address those other reasons (at least first). It sounds like some of those reasons are COL and just having a demoralizing work environment. That work environment might be cured by XYZ (insert all of the stuff regularly discussed on DCUM).

But to get back to the point of the thread, even with a beautiful work environment and higher pay, would teachers be able to make up for the learning losses of the pandemic? Would any of that actually measurably help students? The end goal is students' education.

Sadly, the research is pretty clear that even the best teachers with the best support are unlikely to be able to ameliorate the effects of the closures and quarantines without funding for intensive support for the kids, including one-on-one tutoring. And that just isn't something we can provide in bulk, regardless of funding. There aren't enough potential support staff available in the entire region. I hate to be a downer but this is a generation of black and poor children in DC who will all experience lasting harmful effects.

I don’t agree, I can have had students grow 2 grade levels in 1 school year. BUT they were 2-3.5 grade levels behind, were at school 90-100% of the school year, and I got their parents involved at home.

People really don’t think acceleration is possible?? The issue is that when you have a child missing 70 days of school what do you expect? I can reach if I can’t teach. You think the average attendance of 126 days vs. at minimum 162 days doesn’t make a difference?

And what research? Because from my own and personal experience you can close the achievement gap with:
A good teacher
Minimal absences
Parental involvement
Student engagement
Decent class sizes
And optionally a strong teacher’s aide

What is the population you teach? And also, we are talking systematically, not just in your classroom. I am not denying that you are an exceptional teacher, but acknowledging that you are the exception, not the rule, is important.

I teach at a dcps title 1 school, with a high at risk population.

You don’t think if DCPS changed their absence and tardy policy things wouldn’t change? I’m not saying parents who have their children miss 20-100+ days of school should go to jail but there needs to be a tangible consequence such as a mandatory check in or be fined, then maybe a little jail time as a very, very, very last resort. Because CPS isn’t all that helpful, at least none of the parents at my school seem to give a crap. Something has got to give on this end, I love my parents, especially the tough ones who I have to wiggle my way to knowing. But tbh it’s exhausting to get these parents whose main job is a parent to be one.

More parental involvement would be great for parents especially of students with high needs, whether it’s academic, emotional, etc. It starts in elementary, why aren’t all DCPS schools Flamboyan or the like schools? It’s time for teacher compensated mandatory home visits.

Student engagement is a systemic issue. you know how many teachers think their point system, taking recess, seeing the dean or principal, in school suspension is working? Not many and if they do it’s because they don’t know any better.
Teachers are seldom trained in how to keep students engaged and no, engagement doesn’t mean a child who ‘hates’ math is going to love it. But why do they hate it and how can we incorporate their interests? If teachers had adequate planning time, as in it’s never taken away this could be something every individual teacher could work on.

I think I don’t have to explain overcrowding of classes.

A teacher’s aide in every class would be helpful too, more small groups and another adult to help de-escalate students as needed.

Idk the answers seem fairly clear to me but dcps will never do it. They don’t want to pay teachers, aides, and subs any more. Because let me tell you we have a huge shortage. Finding great people who are ok with 30k a year (aides) is almost impossible. They also don’t want to hold parents accountable for tardies and absences. It IS neglect if you allow your child to miss so much school.

If the problem lies with parents, then the solution does not seem to be to pay teachers more.

Does anyone have examples -- from research -- where schools were able to help high-percentage-poverty kids raise their test scores?

Why do some of you keep cherry picking? The whole issue is not parents. There are till a ton of openings, especially in the high needs areas. And this is from research, if you care do it lmao. I’m not invested in this convo enough to do it for someone who doesn’t want to pay all school staff more, even if especially for paras it’s a reason they don’t work for DCPS.

While I do believe paras should be paid a living wage, I am not convinced that there are enough qualified teachers locally to fill the gaps, no matter what wages are offered.

[Anonymous]

The should have give the option to repeat the grade level missed. As well as creating hybrid half grades like k-1, 6-7 etc. As well as additional year to complete high school courses. You can't expect all students to "make up" learning loss in a matter of months.
DC and the mayor should have owned the fact that online learning didn't work for most students and just repeated the year for anyone that didn't test at or above grade level, full stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The should have give the option to repeat the grade level missed. As well as creating hybrid half grades like k-1, 6-7 etc. As well as additional year to complete high school courses. You can't expect all students to "make up" learning loss in a matter of months.
DC and the mayor should have owned the fact that online learning didn't work for most students and just repeated the year for anyone that didn't test at or above grade level, full stop.

God, I wish. It's too impractical to implement, but it would have been nice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I also don’t get why we compare with other districts when we know historically teaching has been a ‘female job,’ and is underpaid throughout this nation, just as many nursing positions. If teaching was a revered field like being a doctor, I promise you would see more teachers and also in some cases better quality ones.

I realize this wasn't your main point, but the reason we compare is that the surrounding districts are the competition for hiring teachers.

We don't evaluate every job on the basis of what it means to society and pay accordingly, because how would you do that? It's all subjective. Wishing we did it that way won't change capitalism.

I think the relevant point is: DC has higher teacher salaries but can lose teachers to lower-paying surrounding districts for reasons other than pay. That means that you want to address those other reasons (at least first). It sounds like some of those reasons are COL and just having a demoralizing work environment. That work environment might be cured by XYZ (insert all of the stuff regularly discussed on DCUM).

But to get back to the point of the thread, even with a beautiful work environment and higher pay, would teachers be able to make up for the learning losses of the pandemic? Would any of that actually measurably help students? The end goal is students' education.

Sadly, the research is pretty clear that even the best teachers with the best support are unlikely to be able to ameliorate the effects of the closures and quarantines without funding for intensive support for the kids, including one-on-one tutoring. And that just isn't something we can provide in bulk, regardless of funding. There aren't enough potential support staff available in the entire region. I hate to be a downer but this is a generation of black and poor children in DC who will all experience lasting harmful effects.

I don’t agree, I can have had students grow 2 grade levels in 1 school year. BUT they were 2-3.5 grade levels behind, were at school 90-100% of the school year, and I got their parents involved at home.

People really don’t think acceleration is possible?? The issue is that when you have a child missing 70 days of school what do you expect? I can reach if I can’t teach. You think the average attendance of 126 days vs. at minimum 162 days doesn’t make a difference?

And what research? Because from my own and personal experience you can close the achievement gap with:
A good teacher
Minimal absences
Parental involvement
Student engagement
Decent class sizes
And optionally a strong teacher’s aide

What is the population you teach? And also, we are talking systematically, not just in your classroom. I am not denying that you are an exceptional teacher, but acknowledging that you are the exception, not the rule, is important.

I teach at a dcps title 1 school, with a high at risk population.

You don’t think if DCPS changed their absence and tardy policy things wouldn’t change? I’m not saying parents who have their children miss 20-100+ days of school should go to jail but there needs to be a tangible consequence such as a mandatory check in or be fined, then maybe a little jail time as a very, very, very last resort. Because CPS isn’t all that helpful, at least none of the parents at my school seem to give a crap. Something has got to give on this end, I love my parents, especially the tough ones who I have to wiggle my way to knowing. But tbh it’s exhausting to get these parents whose main job is a parent to be one.

More parental involvement would be great for parents especially of students with high needs, whether it’s academic, emotional, etc. It starts in elementary, why aren’t all DCPS schools Flamboyan or the like schools? It’s time for teacher compensated mandatory home visits.

Student engagement is a systemic issue. you know how many teachers think their point system, taking recess, seeing the dean or principal, in school suspension is working? Not many and if they do it’s because they don’t know any better.
Teachers are seldom trained in how to keep students engaged and no, engagement doesn’t mean a child who ‘hates’ math is going to love it. But why do they hate it and how can we incorporate their interests? If teachers had adequate planning time, as in it’s never taken away this could be something every individual teacher could work on.

I think I don’t have to explain overcrowding of classes.

A teacher’s aide in every class would be helpful too, more small groups and another adult to help de-escalate students as needed.

Idk the answers seem fairly clear to me but dcps will never do it. They don’t want to pay teachers, aides, and subs any more. Because let me tell you we have a huge shortage. Finding great people who are ok with 30k a year (aides) is almost impossible. They also don’t want to hold parents accountable for tardies and absences. It IS neglect if you allow your child to miss so much school.

If the problem lies with parents, then the solution does not seem to be to pay teachers more.

Does anyone have examples -- from research -- where schools were able to help high-percentage-poverty kids raise their test scores?

Why do some of you keep cherry picking? The whole issue is not parents. There are till a ton of openings, especially in the high needs areas. And this is from research, if you care do it lmao. I’m not invested in this convo enough to do it for someone who doesn’t want to pay all school staff more, even if especially for paras it’s a reason they don’t work for DCPS.

While I do believe paras should be paid a living wage, I am not convinced that there are enough qualified teachers locally to fill the gaps, no matter what wages are offered.

The job of para or Aide is not going to appeal to the same person who wants to run a homeroom. The Aides need to be paid more. I believe I saw somewhere on this tread (or maybe I read somewhere else) someone suggested that especially this past year grades above K should have had Aides in them because of the needs of the kids coming in. 1st graders were exhibiting behaviors of PKers (socially and emotionally) and it would have been tremendously helpful to have had more hands on deck. But even if they make those positions available, I don't think they will get filled if they don't offer better pay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I also don’t get why we compare with other districts when we know historically teaching has been a ‘female job,’ and is underpaid throughout this nation, just as many nursing positions. If teaching was a revered field like being a doctor, I promise you would see more teachers and also in some cases better quality ones.

I realize this wasn't your main point, but the reason we compare is that the surrounding districts are the competition for hiring teachers.

We don't evaluate every job on the basis of what it means to society and pay accordingly, because how would you do that? It's all subjective. Wishing we did it that way won't change capitalism.

I think the relevant point is: DC has higher teacher salaries but can lose teachers to lower-paying surrounding districts for reasons other than pay. That means that you want to address those other reasons (at least first). It sounds like some of those reasons are COL and just having a demoralizing work environment. That work environment might be cured by XYZ (insert all of the stuff regularly discussed on DCUM).

But to get back to the point of the thread, even with a beautiful work environment and higher pay, would teachers be able to make up for the learning losses of the pandemic? Would any of that actually measurably help students? The end goal is students' education.

Sadly, the research is pretty clear that even the best teachers with the best support are unlikely to be able to ameliorate the effects of the closures and quarantines without funding for intensive support for the kids, including one-on-one tutoring. And that just isn't something we can provide in bulk, regardless of funding. There aren't enough potential support staff available in the entire region. I hate to be a downer but this is a generation of black and poor children in DC who will all experience lasting harmful effects.

I don’t agree, I can have had students grow 2 grade levels in 1 school year. BUT they were 2-3.5 grade levels behind, were at school 90-100% of the school year, and I got their parents involved at home.

People really don’t think acceleration is possible?? The issue is that when you have a child missing 70 days of school what do you expect? I can reach if I can’t teach. You think the average attendance of 126 days vs. at minimum 162 days doesn’t make a difference?

And what research? Because from my own and personal experience you can close the achievement gap with:
A good teacher
Minimal absences
Parental involvement
Student engagement
Decent class sizes
And optionally a strong teacher’s aide

What is the population you teach? And also, we are talking systematically, not just in your classroom. I am not denying that you are an exceptional teacher, but acknowledging that you are the exception, not the rule, is important.

I teach at a dcps title 1 school, with a high at risk population.

You don’t think if DCPS changed their absence and tardy policy things wouldn’t change? I’m not saying parents who have their children miss 20-100+ days of school should go to jail but there needs to be a tangible consequence such as a mandatory check in or be fined, then maybe a little jail time as a very, very, very last resort. Because CPS isn’t all that helpful, at least none of the parents at my school seem to give a crap. Something has got to give on this end, I love my parents, especially the tough ones who I have to wiggle my way to knowing. But tbh it’s exhausting to get these parents whose main job is a parent to be one.

More parental involvement would be great for parents especially of students with high needs, whether it’s academic, emotional, etc. It starts in elementary, why aren’t all DCPS schools Flamboyan or the like schools? It’s time for teacher compensated mandatory home visits.

Student engagement is a systemic issue. you know how many teachers think their point system, taking recess, seeing the dean or principal, in school suspension is working? Not many and if they do it’s because they don’t know any better.
Teachers are seldom trained in how to keep students engaged and no, engagement doesn’t mean a child who ‘hates’ math is going to love it. But why do they hate it and how can we incorporate their interests? If teachers had adequate planning time, as in it’s never taken away this could be something every individual teacher could work on.

I think I don’t have to explain overcrowding of classes.

A teacher’s aide in every class would be helpful too, more small groups and another adult to help de-escalate students as needed.

Idk the answers seem fairly clear to me but dcps will never do it. They don’t want to pay teachers, aides, and subs any more. Because let me tell you we have a huge shortage. Finding great people who are ok with 30k a year (aides) is almost impossible. They also don’t want to hold parents accountable for tardies and absences. It IS neglect if you allow your child to miss so much school.

If the problem lies with parents, then the solution does not seem to be to pay teachers more.

Does anyone have examples -- from research -- where schools were able to help high-percentage-poverty kids raise their test scores?

Why do some of you keep cherry picking? The whole issue is not parents. There are till a ton of openings, especially in the high needs areas. And this is from research, if you care do it lmao. I’m not invested in this convo enough to do it for someone who doesn’t want to pay all school staff more, even if especially for paras it’s a reason they don’t work for DCPS.

While I do believe paras should be paid a living wage, I am not convinced that there are enough qualified teachers locally to fill the gaps, no matter what wages are offered.

The job of para or Aide is not going to appeal to the same person who wants to run a homeroom. The Aides need to be paid more. I believe I saw somewhere on this tread (or maybe I read somewhere else) someone suggested that especially this past year grades above K should have had Aides in them because of the needs of the kids coming in. 1st graders were exhibiting behaviors of PKers (socially and emotionally) and it would have been tremendously helpful to have had more hands on deck. But even if they make those positions available, I don't think they will get filled if they don't offer better pay.

That’s not necessarily true. The two best paras my kids have had were people who were in the process of pursuing masters degrees in education. I know that realistically, not every para role can be filled with someone aiming to move into teaching, but you can attract highly motivated candidates in this category by offering accommodations for graduate school (I.e. allowing paras to arrange their august report date around their summer semester) as well as tuition incentives. Yes, it means these paras ultimately move on to teaching jobs. But we live in an area with a ton of universities that have strong schools of education, and offering attractive terms to recent graduates could create a strong pipeline of paras who are, if not experienced, highly motivated and high energy. Especially in younger grades, I like seeing experienced teachers teamed with smart, energetic paras. It makes for a well-run but lively classroom environment.

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I also don’t get why we compare with other districts when we know historically teaching has been a ‘female job,’ and is underpaid throughout this nation, just as many nursing positions. If teaching was a revered field like being a doctor, I promise you would see more teachers and also in some cases better quality ones.

I realize this wasn't your main point, but the reason we compare is that the surrounding districts are the competition for hiring teachers.

We don't evaluate every job on the basis of what it means to society and pay accordingly, because how would you do that? It's all subjective. Wishing we did it that way won't change capitalism.

I think the relevant point is: DC has higher teacher salaries but can lose teachers to lower-paying surrounding districts for reasons other than pay. That means that you want to address those other reasons (at least first). It sounds like some of those reasons are COL and just having a demoralizing work environment. That work environment might be cured by XYZ (insert all of the stuff regularly discussed on DCUM).

But to get back to the point of the thread, even with a beautiful work environment and higher pay, would teachers be able to make up for the learning losses of the pandemic? Would any of that actually measurably help students? The end goal is students' education.

Sadly, the research is pretty clear that even the best teachers with the best support are unlikely to be able to ameliorate the effects of the closures and quarantines without funding for intensive support for the kids, including one-on-one tutoring. And that just isn't something we can provide in bulk, regardless of funding. There aren't enough potential support staff available in the entire region. I hate to be a downer but this is a generation of black and poor children in DC who will all experience lasting harmful effects.

I don’t agree, I can have had students grow 2 grade levels in 1 school year. BUT they were 2-3.5 grade levels behind, were at school 90-100% of the school year, and I got their parents involved at home.

People really don’t think acceleration is possible?? The issue is that when you have a child missing 70 days of school what do you expect? I can reach if I can’t teach. You think the average attendance of 126 days vs. at minimum 162 days doesn’t make a difference?

And what research? Because from my own and personal experience you can close the achievement gap with:
A good teacher
Minimal absences
Parental involvement
Student engagement
Decent class sizes
And optionally a strong teacher’s aide

What is the population you teach? And also, we are talking systematically, not just in your classroom. I am not denying that you are an exceptional teacher, but acknowledging that you are the exception, not the rule, is important.

I teach at a dcps title 1 school, with a high at risk population.

You don’t think if DCPS changed their absence and tardy policy things wouldn’t change? I’m not saying parents who have their children miss 20-100+ days of school should go to jail but there needs to be a tangible consequence such as a mandatory check in or be fined, then maybe a little jail time as a very, very, very last resort. Because CPS isn’t all that helpful, at least none of the parents at my school seem to give a crap. Something has got to give on this end, I love my parents, especially the tough ones who I have to wiggle my way to knowing. But tbh it’s exhausting to get these parents whose main job is a parent to be one.

More parental involvement would be great for parents especially of students with high needs, whether it’s academic, emotional, etc. It starts in elementary, why aren’t all DCPS schools Flamboyan or the like schools? It’s time for teacher compensated mandatory home visits.

Student engagement is a systemic issue. you know how many teachers think their point system, taking recess, seeing the dean or principal, in school suspension is working? Not many and if they do it’s because they don’t know any better.
Teachers are seldom trained in how to keep students engaged and no, engagement doesn’t mean a child who ‘hates’ math is going to love it. But why do they hate it and how can we incorporate their interests? If teachers had adequate planning time, as in it’s never taken away this could be something every individual teacher could work on.

I think I don’t have to explain overcrowding of classes.

A teacher’s aide in every class would be helpful too, more small groups and another adult to help de-escalate students as needed.

Idk the answers seem fairly clear to me but dcps will never do it. They don’t want to pay teachers, aides, and subs any more. Because let me tell you we have a huge shortage. Finding great people who are ok with 30k a year (aides) is almost impossible. They also don’t want to hold parents accountable for tardies and absences. It IS neglect if you allow your child to miss so much school.

If the problem lies with parents, then the solution does not seem to be to pay teachers more.

Does anyone have examples -- from research -- where schools were able to help high-percentage-poverty kids raise their test scores?

Charters do it. There is a reason why most charters are EOTR. They are extremely popular there because they get results with high poverty populations.