Stupid question about the Arlington CB and overcrowded schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Years ago a few community centers WERE schools. And they then became community centers. Time to roll back the clock.

Who would resist this? I see them used for community classes, games for younger people, and senior centers, and it seems like there have to be other sites for those things.

There was a work session last week that mentioned that APS recaptured one of the community centers and will be using it to relieve capacity at one of the elementary schools

That’s a step in the right direction. Which one?

Carver Center to relieve Hoffman-Boston
From https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/arlington/Board.nsf/files/CBHQSP68FECD/$file/2022%20Annual%20Update%20FINAL.pdf
"• Hoffman Boston
o Transferring control of Carver Center space to APS from Arlington Parks and Recreation,
providing more space flexibility for school programming, while continuing to be
available for community programming outside of normal school hours (completed in fall "

That's a very small community center that is part of the Hoffman Boston building; so it makes sense. Aside from any daytime activities (which probably aren't many), I'm sure the uses of the community center can continue in the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah it definitely seems like one of the community centers could be a high school

Also I have to say this bifurcated system in Arlington (county board and school board) makes me miss living in a city with mayoral control of schools. Maybe we should just get rid of the school board and have the superintendent report to the county board, which would then be responsible for dealing with repercussions of all the growth they support.

Also I thought democrats generally supported public schools and school funding? Doesn't seem that way in Arlington

Yes, Arlington Democrats focus on supporting building affordable housing projects and condos/townhouses for the wealthy (to enrich developers) but with zero consideration of the impacts on schools.

Why are they so obsessed with more housing? Affordable housing I get, but what's with all the expensive condos and townhouses? Is this just corruption or what?

It’s easy money. You tear down a few junky old ranchers worth $2m tops in land and replace with 20 townhouses appraising at $1m a piece. County gets its fees but also a significantly expanded tax base. Fundamentally though, more housing is the only way you solve an affordable housing problem. Giving 200 people a cheap apartment where the rent is subsidized for life doesn’t.

[Anonymous]

I said this before but I'll say it again, it is strange to me that the Democrats who control the county board do not seem concerned about ensuring the schools do not get overcrowded. I am fine with more density and housing but they should be requiring the developers to help fund school construction. The tax base should be increasing so I am not sure why there would not be money for this. At a minimum it seems pretty clear there needs to be a new high school - ideally one that is comprehensive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I said this before but I'll say it again, it is strange to me that the Democrats who control the county board do not seem concerned about ensuring the schools do not get overcrowded. I am fine with more density and housing but they should be requiring the developers to help fund school construction. The tax base should be increasing so I am not sure why there would not be money for this. At a minimum it seems pretty clear there needs to be a new high school - ideally one that is comprehensive.

It's so frustrating that the people on this thread who seems to have all the answers haven't bothered understanding any basics about how county and school board work.

The term you are looking for is called "proffers" and counties in Virginia are not allowed to even request them from developers. https://www.virginiaproffersolutions.com/the-law

Someone else asked, "why are we doing it this stupid way in Arlington where the county can't build schools?" Gee, the Virginia Constitution. The Virginia Constitution and a whole bunch of court cases require all supervision of schools, including facilities, land acquisition, etc. to be the sole responsibility of a school board.

Have a bit of humility before you trash everyone who is elected and assume they are dumb or evil or whatever you are accusing them of. FFS they are following the law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I said this before but I'll say it again, it is strange to me that the Democrats who control the county board do not seem concerned about ensuring the schools do not get overcrowded. I am fine with more density and housing but they should be requiring the developers to help fund school construction. The tax base should be increasing so I am not sure why there would not be money for this. At a minimum it seems pretty clear there needs to be a new high school - ideally one that is comprehensive.

It's so frustrating that the people on this thread who seems to have all the answers haven't bothered understanding any basics about how county and school board work.

The term you are looking for is called "proffers" and counties in Virginia are not allowed to even request them from developers. https://www.virginiaproffersolutions.com/the-law

Someone else asked, "why are we doing it this stupid way in Arlington where the county can't build schools?" Gee, the Virginia Constitution. The Virginia Constitution and a whole bunch of court cases require all supervision of schools, including facilities, land acquisition, etc. to be the sole responsibility of a school board.

Have a bit of humility before you trash everyone who is elected and assume they are dumb or evil or whatever you are accusing them of. FFS they are following the law.

Why do you think the schools are so overcrowded?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I said this before but I'll say it again, it is strange to me that the Democrats who control the county board do not seem concerned about ensuring the schools do not get overcrowded. I am fine with more density and housing but they should be requiring the developers to help fund school construction. The tax base should be increasing so I am not sure why there would not be money for this. At a minimum it seems pretty clear there needs to be a new high school - ideally one that is comprehensive.

It's so frustrating that the people on this thread who seems to have all the answers haven't bothered understanding any basics about how county and school board work.

The term you are looking for is called "proffers" and counties in Virginia are not allowed to even request them from developers. https://www.virginiaproffersolutions.com/the-law

Someone else asked, "why are we doing it this stupid way in Arlington where the county can't build schools?" Gee, the Virginia Constitution. The Virginia Constitution and a whole bunch of court cases require all supervision of schools, including facilities, land acquisition, etc. to be the sole responsibility of a school board.

Have a bit of humility before you trash everyone who is elected and assume they are dumb or evil or whatever you are accusing them of. FFS they are following the law.

Why do you think the schools are so overcrowded?

Thanks for the explanation but if the county board knows they can't do anything to ensure there are adequate schools for all the new development, maybe they shouldn't allow as much development - not because it is inherently bad but because no one seems to be able to successfully manage the implications for the county's education system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I said this before but I'll say it again, it is strange to me that the Democrats who control the county board do not seem concerned about ensuring the schools do not get overcrowded. I am fine with more density and housing but they should be requiring the developers to help fund school construction. The tax base should be increasing so I am not sure why there would not be money for this. At a minimum it seems pretty clear there needs to be a new high school - ideally one that is comprehensive.

It's so frustrating that the people on this thread who seems to have all the answers haven't bothered understanding any basics about how county and school board work.

The term you are looking for is called "proffers" and counties in Virginia are not allowed to even request them from developers. https://www.virginiaproffersolutions.com/the-law

Someone else asked, "why are we doing it this stupid way in Arlington where the county can't build schools?" Gee, the Virginia Constitution. The Virginia Constitution and a whole bunch of court cases require all supervision of schools, including facilities, land acquisition, etc. to be the sole responsibility of a school board.

Have a bit of humility before you trash everyone who is elected and assume they are dumb or evil or whatever you are accusing them of. FFS they are following the law.

This poster discussing proffers is wrong. The law lays out the situation where you are permitted to make request to the developers related to the schools. It doesn’t say you can’t make them. Over the years I’ve seen APS documents that contemplate a new ES could include developer contributions. If I come across those reports, I’ll post them here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I said this before but I'll say it again, it is strange to me that the Democrats who control the county board do not seem concerned about ensuring the schools do not get overcrowded. I am fine with more density and housing but they should be requiring the developers to help fund school construction. The tax base should be increasing so I am not sure why there would not be money for this. At a minimum it seems pretty clear there needs to be a new high school - ideally one that is comprehensive.

It's so frustrating that the people on this thread who seems to have all the answers haven't bothered understanding any basics about how county and school board work.

The term you are looking for is called "proffers" and counties in Virginia are not allowed to even request them from developers. https://www.virginiaproffersolutions.com/the-law

Someone else asked, "why are we doing it this stupid way in Arlington where the county can't build schools?" Gee, the Virginia Constitution. The Virginia Constitution and a whole bunch of court cases require all supervision of schools, including facilities, land acquisition, etc. to be the sole responsibility of a school board.

Have a bit of humility before you trash everyone who is elected and assume they are dumb or evil or whatever you are accusing them of. FFS they are following the law.

How to say this nicely: did you even read what you linked before you posted? It doesn’t say what you wrote at all!!! What am I missing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I said this before but I'll say it again, it is strange to me that the Democrats who control the county board do not seem concerned about ensuring the schools do not get overcrowded. I am fine with more density and housing but they should be requiring the developers to help fund school construction. The tax base should be increasing so I am not sure why there would not be money for this. At a minimum it seems pretty clear there needs to be a new high school - ideally one that is comprehensive.

It's so frustrating that the people on this thread who seems to have all the answers haven't bothered understanding any basics about how county and school board work.

The term you are looking for is called "proffers" and counties in Virginia are not allowed to even request them from developers. https://www.virginiaproffersolutions.com/the-law

Someone else asked, "why are we doing it this stupid way in Arlington where the county can't build schools?" Gee, the Virginia Constitution. The Virginia Constitution and a whole bunch of court cases require all supervision of schools, including facilities, land acquisition, etc. to be the sole responsibility of a school board.

Have a bit of humility before you trash everyone who is elected and assume they are dumb or evil or whatever you are accusing them of. FFS they are following the law.

This poster discussing proffers is wrong. The law lays out the situation where you are permitted to make request to the developers related to the schools. It doesn’t say you can’t make them. Over the years I’ve seen APS documents that contemplate a new ES could include developer contributions. If I come across those reports, I’ll post them here.

Omg I'm not wrong, I just did not fully explain the entirety of the law on proffers (that's why I included the link, click on it). Of course APS can accept "voluntary" monetary extractions IF those donations comply with the law's requirements, which are listed in the link, which includes proportionality. So if one developer built a building with 20 2-bedroom apartment units, then maybe they could be allowed (and they have to choose to do this, and the law says that a developer is being unreasonable under the law unless they are getting a material benefit from their donation, again click on the link for the full details) to voluntarily donate money or a parcel of land to offset the cost of one new child per unit, so what is that, 1/100th of an actual school facility?

Yes, maybe Amazon can develop 10,000 units and argue that it is getting a benefit for its workers who will work there to have a school nearby and maybe they can successfully meet all the requirements to make a proffer, but that's a highly unusual one-off situation and not a plan for the Rosslyn-Ballston corridor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I said this before but I'll say it again, it is strange to me that the Democrats who control the county board do not seem concerned about ensuring the schools do not get overcrowded. I am fine with more density and housing but they should be requiring the developers to help fund school construction. The tax base should be increasing so I am not sure why there would not be money for this. At a minimum it seems pretty clear there needs to be a new high school - ideally one that is comprehensive.

It's so frustrating that the people on this thread who seems to have all the answers haven't bothered understanding any basics about how county and school board work.

The term you are looking for is called "proffers" and counties in Virginia are not allowed to even request them from developers. https://www.virginiaproffersolutions.com/the-law

Someone else asked, "why are we doing it this stupid way in Arlington where the county can't build schools?" Gee, the Virginia Constitution. The Virginia Constitution and a whole bunch of court cases require all supervision of schools, including facilities, land acquisition, etc. to be the sole responsibility of a school board.

Have a bit of humility before you trash everyone who is elected and assume they are dumb or evil or whatever you are accusing them of. FFS they are following the law.

This poster discussing proffers is wrong. The law lays out the situation where you are permitted to make request to the developers related to the schools. It doesn’t say you can’t make them. Over the years I’ve seen APS documents that contemplate a new ES could include developer contributions. If I come across those reports, I’ll post them here.

Omg I'm not wrong, I just did not fully explain the entirety of the law on proffers (that's why I included the link, click on it). Of course APS can accept "voluntary" monetary extractions IF those donations comply with the law's requirements, which are listed in the link, which includes proportionality. So if one developer built a building with 20 2-bedroom apartment units, then maybe they could be allowed (and they have to choose to do this, and the law says that a developer is being unreasonable under the law unless they are getting a material benefit from their donation, again click on the link for the full details) to voluntarily donate money or a parcel of land to offset the cost of one new child per unit, so what is that, 1/100th of an actual school facility?

Yes, maybe Amazon can develop 10,000 units and argue that it is getting a benefit for its workers who will work there to have a school nearby and maybe they can successfully meet all the requirements to make a proffer, but that's a highly unusual one-off situation and not a plan for the Rosslyn-Ballston corridor.

Couldn’t the county just say “if this many units in this area are built we won’t have enough school space so no we aren’t going to grand you your variances to rules for height and parking?”

Also I’m still curious If you have a reason for why the schools are so overcrowded?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I said this before but I'll say it again, it is strange to me that the Democrats who control the county board do not seem concerned about ensuring the schools do not get overcrowded. I am fine with more density and housing but they should be requiring the developers to help fund school construction. The tax base should be increasing so I am not sure why there would not be money for this. At a minimum it seems pretty clear there needs to be a new high school - ideally one that is comprehensive.

It's so frustrating that the people on this thread who seems to have all the answers haven't bothered understanding any basics about how county and school board work.

The term you are looking for is called "proffers" and counties in Virginia are not allowed to even request them from developers. https://www.virginiaproffersolutions.com/the-law

Someone else asked, "why are we doing it this stupid way in Arlington where the county can't build schools?" Gee, the Virginia Constitution. The Virginia Constitution and a whole bunch of court cases require all supervision of schools, including facilities, land acquisition, etc. to be the sole responsibility of a school board.

Have a bit of humility before you trash everyone who is elected and assume they are dumb or evil or whatever you are accusing them of. FFS they are following the law.

How to say this nicely: did you even read what you linked before you posted? It doesn’t say what you wrote at all!!! What am I missing?

Counties are not allowed to ask or require developers give them money or land for schools. That is what it says, and that is what I wrote.
Developers can donate to counties, but only after jumping through a lot of hoops and surviving judicial scrutiny, and the hoops make it very hard to receive something like land or money for a school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I said this before but I'll say it again, it is strange to me that the Democrats who control the county board do not seem concerned about ensuring the schools do not get overcrowded. I am fine with more density and housing but they should be requiring the developers to help fund school construction. The tax base should be increasing so I am not sure why there would not be money for this. At a minimum it seems pretty clear there needs to be a new high school - ideally one that is comprehensive.

It's so frustrating that the people on this thread who seems to have all the answers haven't bothered understanding any basics about how county and school board work.

The term you are looking for is called "proffers" and counties in Virginia are not allowed to even request them from developers. https://www.virginiaproffersolutions.com/the-law

Someone else asked, "why are we doing it this stupid way in Arlington where the county can't build schools?" Gee, the Virginia Constitution. The Virginia Constitution and a whole bunch of court cases require all supervision of schools, including facilities, land acquisition, etc. to be the sole responsibility of a school board.

Have a bit of humility before you trash everyone who is elected and assume they are dumb or evil or whatever you are accusing them of. FFS they are following the law.

How to say this nicely: did you even read what you linked before you posted? It doesn’t say what you wrote at all!!! What am I missing?

Counties are not allowed to ask or require developers give them money or land for schools. That is what it says, and that is what I wrote.
Developers can donate to counties, but only after jumping through a lot of hoops and surviving judicial scrutiny, and the hoops make it very hard to receive something like land or money for a school.

NP. Can counties look at what a developer is asking for, see that it would result in too much overcrowding, and then deny the developers permission to build?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I said this before but I'll say it again, it is strange to me that the Democrats who control the county board do not seem concerned about ensuring the schools do not get overcrowded. I am fine with more density and housing but they should be requiring the developers to help fund school construction. The tax base should be increasing so I am not sure why there would not be money for this. At a minimum it seems pretty clear there needs to be a new high school - ideally one that is comprehensive.

It's so frustrating that the people on this thread who seems to have all the answers haven't bothered understanding any basics about how county and school board work.

The term you are looking for is called "proffers" and counties in Virginia are not allowed to even request them from developers. https://www.virginiaproffersolutions.com/the-law

Someone else asked, "why are we doing it this stupid way in Arlington where the county can't build schools?" Gee, the Virginia Constitution. The Virginia Constitution and a whole bunch of court cases require all supervision of schools, including facilities, land acquisition, etc. to be the sole responsibility of a school board.

Have a bit of humility before you trash everyone who is elected and assume they are dumb or evil or whatever you are accusing them of. FFS they are following the law.

This poster discussing proffers is wrong. The law lays out the situation where you are permitted to make request to the developers related to the schools. It doesn’t say you can’t make them. Over the years I’ve seen APS documents that contemplate a new ES could include developer contributions. If I come across those reports, I’ll post them here.

Omg I'm not wrong, I just did not fully explain the entirety of the law on proffers (that's why I included the link, click on it). Of course APS can accept "voluntary" monetary extractions IF those donations comply with the law's requirements, which are listed in the link, which includes proportionality. So if one developer built a building with 20 2-bedroom apartment units, then maybe they could be allowed (and they have to choose to do this, and the law says that a developer is being unreasonable under the law unless they are getting a material benefit from their donation, again click on the link for the full details) to voluntarily donate money or a parcel of land to offset the cost of one new child per unit, so what is that, 1/100th of an actual school facility?

Yes, maybe Amazon can develop 10,000 units and argue that it is getting a benefit for its workers who will work there to have a school nearby and maybe they can successfully meet all the requirements to make a proffer, but that's a highly unusual one-off situation and not a plan for the Rosslyn-Ballston corridor.

Couldn’t the county just say “if this many units in this area are built we won’t have enough school space so no we aren’t going to grand you your variances to rules for height and parking?”

Also I’m still curious If you have a reason for why the schools are so overcrowded?

You are asking me why the schools are overcrowded? Because population grew 15% between 2010 and 2020, whereas it grew only 7.4% across the country, and we are only 26 square miles large, which gives us very little land to build schools on. There's no conspiracy. Go easy on the coffee.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I said this before but I'll say it again, it is strange to me that the Democrats who control the county board do not seem concerned about ensuring the schools do not get overcrowded. I am fine with more density and housing but they should be requiring the developers to help fund school construction. The tax base should be increasing so I am not sure why there would not be money for this. At a minimum it seems pretty clear there needs to be a new high school - ideally one that is comprehensive.

It's so frustrating that the people on this thread who seems to have all the answers haven't bothered understanding any basics about how county and school board work.

The term you are looking for is called "proffers" and counties in Virginia are not allowed to even request them from developers. https://www.virginiaproffersolutions.com/the-law

Someone else asked, "why are we doing it this stupid way in Arlington where the county can't build schools?" Gee, the Virginia Constitution. The Virginia Constitution and a whole bunch of court cases require all supervision of schools, including facilities, land acquisition, etc. to be the sole responsibility of a school board.

Have a bit of humility before you trash everyone who is elected and assume they are dumb or evil or whatever you are accusing them of. FFS they are following the law.

This poster discussing proffers is wrong. The law lays out the situation where you are permitted to make request to the developers related to the schools. It doesn’t say you can’t make them. Over the years I’ve seen APS documents that contemplate a new ES could include developer contributions. If I come across those reports, I’ll post them here.

Omg I'm not wrong, I just did not fully explain the entirety of the law on proffers (that's why I included the link, click on it). Of course APS can accept "voluntary" monetary extractions IF those donations comply with the law's requirements, which are listed in the link, which includes proportionality. So if one developer built a building with 20 2-bedroom apartment units, then maybe they could be allowed (and they have to choose to do this, and the law says that a developer is being unreasonable under the law unless they are getting a material benefit from their donation, again click on the link for the full details) to voluntarily donate money or a parcel of land to offset the cost of one new child per unit, so what is that, 1/100th of an actual school facility?

Yes, maybe Amazon can develop 10,000 units and argue that it is getting a benefit for its workers who will work there to have a school nearby and maybe they can successfully meet all the requirements to make a proffer, but that's a highly unusual one-off situation and not a plan for the Rosslyn-Ballston corridor.

Couldn’t the county just say “if this many units in this area are built we won’t have enough school space so no we aren’t going to grand you your variances to rules for height and parking?”

Also I’m still curious If you have a reason for why the schools are so overcrowded?

You are asking me why the schools are overcrowded? Because population grew 15% between 2010 and 2020, whereas it grew only 7.4% across the country, and we are only 26 square miles large, which gives us very little land to build schools on. There's no conspiracy. Go easy on the coffee.

You don't have to make all this personal. Yes, I'm asking you because you seem to know things, and my whole point of making this post was to ask this particular question. I don't think that the county board is evil or that there's a conspiracy. I do think that there are alway going to be obstacles to difficult problems and good leadership makes serious efforts to overcome those obstacles. The county board and school board is full of regular people who aren't perfect and I find it hard to believe that these obstacles are truly insurmountable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I said this before but I'll say it again, it is strange to me that the Democrats who control the county board do not seem concerned about ensuring the schools do not get overcrowded. I am fine with more density and housing but they should be requiring the developers to help fund school construction. The tax base should be increasing so I am not sure why there would not be money for this. At a minimum it seems pretty clear there needs to be a new high school - ideally one that is comprehensive.

It's so frustrating that the people on this thread who seems to have all the answers haven't bothered understanding any basics about how county and school board work.

The term you are looking for is called "proffers" and counties in Virginia are not allowed to even request them from developers. https://www.virginiaproffersolutions.com/the-law

Someone else asked, "why are we doing it this stupid way in Arlington where the county can't build schools?" Gee, the Virginia Constitution. The Virginia Constitution and a whole bunch of court cases require all supervision of schools, including facilities, land acquisition, etc. to be the sole responsibility of a school board.

Have a bit of humility before you trash everyone who is elected and assume they are dumb or evil or whatever you are accusing them of. FFS they are following the law.

This poster discussing proffers is wrong. The law lays out the situation where you are permitted to make request to the developers related to the schools. It doesn’t say you can’t make them. Over the years I’ve seen APS documents that contemplate a new ES could include developer contributions. If I come across those reports, I’ll post them here.

Omg I'm not wrong, I just did not fully explain the entirety of the law on proffers (that's why I included the link, click on it). Of course APS can accept "voluntary" monetary extractions IF those donations comply with the law's requirements, which are listed in the link, which includes proportionality. So if one developer built a building with 20 2-bedroom apartment units, then maybe they could be allowed (and they have to choose to do this, and the law says that a developer is being unreasonable under the law unless they are getting a material benefit from their donation, again click on the link for the full details) to voluntarily donate money or a parcel of land to offset the cost of one new child per unit, so what is that, 1/100th of an actual school facility?

Yes, maybe Amazon can develop 10,000 units and argue that it is getting a benefit for its workers who will work there to have a school nearby and maybe they can successfully meet all the requirements to make a proffer, but that's a highly unusual one-off situation and not a plan for the Rosslyn-Ballston corridor.

Couldn’t the county just say “if this many units in this area are built we won’t have enough school space so no we aren’t going to grand you your variances to rules for height and parking?”

Also I’m still curious If you have a reason for why the schools are so overcrowded?

You are asking me why the schools are overcrowded? Because population grew 15% between 2010 and 2020, whereas it grew only 7.4% across the country, and we are only 26 square miles large, which gives us very little land to build schools on. There's no conspiracy. Go easy on the coffee.

PP reminds me of this joke:

A man flying in a hot air balloon suddenly realizes he’s lost. He reduces height and spots a man down below. He lowers the balloon further and shouts to get directions, "Excuse me, can you tell me where I am?"

The man below says: "Yes. You're in a hot air balloon, hovering 30 feet above this field."

"You must be a DCUM poster," says the balloonist.

"I do" replies the man. "How did you know?"

"Well," says the balloonist, "everything you have told me is technically correct, but It's of no use to anyone."