Academic Rigor of APS Middle Schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are focused on the wrong thing. My kid is a junior and many kids who were pushed into early Algebra just weren't ready and the algebra was a bit watered down which was ok.

But the students got to high school and the just weren't prepared because the high school teachers assumed a level of mastery that wasn't there and they had to remediate. This was true even in the intensified level classes.

Forcing math early is probably the biggest mistake some parents make. Instead I would argue that parents need to push middle schools to teach something far more basic which is reading and writing including grammar, vocabulary, and how to write basic paragraphs and essays.

I'm one of the PPs that mentioned my kid isn't challenged right now. Even though I don't think she's challenged in most classes right now, I do agree with this poster's points. My DD's math placement is a good fit - not the highest, but that's okay. I agree that pushing too much in math is a huge mistake and sets kids up for failure later on. It happened to me and resulted in my hating math.

OP here. You are actually validating my point. Even though DC is taking "higher level" classes, I worry about the level of mastery. And I didn't push my child into anything. This was the path that was recommended based on test scores and grades and also seems to be a good fit for my child. DC did mention there are some kids in class who are struggling.

It's been many years since my education classes and I went the early childhood path, but I recall that people were advised not to start algebra early in middle school. I was in a less competitive part of the country, I'm not sure what they do now. My own fourth grader is very advanced in math so I'll be looking into this in the next year as we decide for middle school.

https://www.nctm.org/News-and-Calendar/Messages-from-the-President/Archive/Linda-M_-Gojak/Algebra_-Not-_If_-but-_When_/

"Just because a student can mimic steps shown by the teacher doesn’t ensure that he has the sophistication to deeply understand the mathematics.
So, when should students take algebra? Many students and parents interpret taking algebra in the seventh or eighth grade as an indication of a level of superior intelligence—a status symbol. My experience, both as a student and as a teacher, leads me to believe that we do more harm than good by placing students in a formal algebra course before they are ready, and few students are truly ready to understand the important concepts of algebra before eighth grade. Many students should wait until ninth grade."

[Anonymous]

What is the difference between regular Algebra 1 and intensified Algebra 1 in MS? Kid is in 7th grade pre-algebra this year and has an A (and seemingly no homework ever). I wouldn't normally think "intensified" would be a good fit for them in math, but it sounds like it just might not be that challenging.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t worry. The high school will be a joke too.

Nope. My HS takes all intensified/AP and has homework every night.

So did my coaster and it was all finished during school. Never did homework at home. It’s not at all challenging for a bright kid.

Cool story, bro

Each school and each teacher is different.

Enjoy your “robust” education at W-L. Maybe your kid will be one of the 250 valedictorians. As long as they show up for class they will.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So fascinating that within a few posts on a thread about APS MS, there are two different references to basis mcclean...🙄

I am not sure what the eye roll is for? I posted the first comment about Basis because we have a kid in APS MS who has not been challenged, so we are looking to pull him out to private. We were surprised that the “advanced” math track that he is on at APS is the lowest math track at BASIS. So yes, APS is not particularly rigorous compared to other options in the area. Wasn’t that the original question?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is the difference between regular Algebra 1 and intensified Algebra 1 in MS? Kid is in 7th grade pre-algebra this year and has an A (and seemingly no homework ever). I wouldn't normally think "intensified" would be a good fit for them in math, but it sounds like it just might not be that challenging.

Intensified moves faster and covers additional material not on the SOL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the difference between regular Algebra 1 and intensified Algebra 1 in MS? Kid is in 7th grade pre-algebra this year and has an A (and seemingly no homework ever). I wouldn't normally think "intensified" would be a good fit for them in math, but it sounds like it just might not be that challenging.

Intensified moves faster and covers additional material not on the SOL.

This is the one piece I don't understand. Why offer Algebra I Intensified in 7th and 8th grade. Just offer regular Algebra. That's still a challenge for kids who are ready for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the difference between regular Algebra 1 and intensified Algebra 1 in MS? Kid is in 7th grade pre-algebra this year and has an A (and seemingly no homework ever). I wouldn't normally think "intensified" would be a good fit for them in math, but it sounds like it just might not be that challenging.

Intensified moves faster and covers additional material not on the SOL.

This is the one piece I don't understand. Why offer Algebra I Intensified in 7th and 8th grade. Just offer regular Algebra. That's still a challenge for kids who are ready for it.

Yep. You're right. Except there are apparently so many child geniuses in Arlington that are not challenged enough with that....per their parents.

[Anonymous]

I don’t know why people here think Algebra l intensified is that hard. Many of us have already said our bright, not genius 7th graders are taking this without any problems. Algebra 1 is the norm for 7th grade in AAP in Fairfax County schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would like to hear from other APS parents and get their thoughts on the academic rigor of APS middle schools.

I hope this isn't taken the wrong way but hear me out. DC is in 8th grade, is taking Algebra, and is mostly a straight A student (had a B one quarter in 6th and 7th grade), which, to be honest, is confounding to me. DC is not particularly a motivated student, and is the kind of kid who will put in what he needs to to get the desired outcome, no more, no less. Whenever I ask if there's any homework or a test to study for, DC responds that it was done at school, if they get any homework at all. I remember when I was that age, I had to bust my ass to get straight As. I wouldn't even know my child was actually even in school if it wasn't for ParentVue, which is the only reason I know DC is actually doing all of the assignments. But it's difficult for me to gauge how much DS is actually learning and absorbing. Maybe DC just a natural learner and grasps concepts more easily than I did, in which case, great! Or maybe APS expects the bare minimum which makes it easy for a student to just coast. I don't know. And it's not from lack of trying to understand or asking questions. Whenever I ask about school, I usually just get one or two-word responses. Everything is good or fine.

This is a longwinded way of saying I'm worried that the middle school isn't doing its job to properly prepare its students for the rigors of high school. Anyone else worried about this? How did your "coaster" do transitioning from MS to HS?

Don't worry, APS is watering down the HS classes, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What you are both describing is a lighter workload not a lack of rigor. And the move to electronic texts and assignments and tests. Education has shifted towards less quantity of work and less homework. Doesn’t mean your kid will necessarily be unprepared for high school. This is true of high school as well. It’s certainly not unique to APS or even public schools in this region. True of privates as well.

Not true of privates. We left APS for private and the change is noticeable. Daily homework, writing assignments, comprehensive tests that are marked up and returned promptly.

Same experience here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are focused on the wrong thing. My kid is a junior and many kids who were pushed into early Algebra just weren't ready and the algebra was a bit watered down which was ok.

But the students got to high school and the just weren't prepared because the high school teachers assumed a level of mastery that wasn't there and they had to remediate. This was true even in the intensified level classes.

Forcing math early is probably the biggest mistake some parents make. Instead I would argue that parents need to push middle schools to teach something far more basic which is reading and writing including grammar, vocabulary, and how to write basic paragraphs and essays.

I'm one of the PPs that mentioned my kid isn't challenged right now. Even though I don't think she's challenged in most classes right now, I do agree with this poster's points. My DD's math placement is a good fit - not the highest, but that's okay. I agree that pushing too much in math is a huge mistake and sets kids up for failure later on. It happened to me and resulted in my hating math.

OP here. You are actually validating my point. Even though DC is taking "higher level" classes, I worry about the level of mastery. And I didn't push my child into anything. This was the path that was recommended based on test scores and grades and also seems to be a good fit for my child. DC did mention there are some kids in class who are struggling.

It's been many years since my education classes and I went the early childhood path, but I recall that people were advised not to start algebra early in middle school. I was in a less competitive part of the country, I'm not sure what they do now. My own fourth grader is very advanced in math so I'll be looking into this in the next year as we decide for middle school.

https://www.nctm.org/News-and-Calendar/Messages-from-the-President/Archive/Linda-M_-Gojak/Algebra_-Not-_If_-but-_When_/

"Just because a student can mimic steps shown by the teacher doesn’t ensure that he has the sophistication to deeply understand the mathematics.
So, when should students take algebra? Many students and parents interpret taking algebra in the seventh or eighth grade as an indication of a level of superior intelligence—a status symbol. My experience, both as a student and as a teacher, leads me to believe that we do more harm than good by placing students in a formal algebra course before they are ready, and few students are truly ready to understand the important concepts of algebra before eighth grade. Many students should wait until ninth grade."

BINGO!!!!! This is precisely why there was/is an effort to fast-track so many kids. But parents never believe that their genius child is one of those who follow and mimic rather than truly understand. Their kid is always "unchallenged" and "bored" because they get an easy "A." It's the other kids who shouldn't be on the accelerated path....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would like to hear from other APS parents and get their thoughts on the academic rigor of APS middle schools.

I hope this isn't taken the wrong way but hear me out. DC is in 8th grade, is taking Algebra, and is mostly a straight A student (had a B one quarter in 6th and 7th grade), which, to be honest, is confounding to me. DC is not particularly a motivated student, and is the kind of kid who will put in what he needs to to get the desired outcome, no more, no less. Whenever I ask if there's any homework or a test to study for, DC responds that it was done at school, if they get any homework at all. I remember when I was that age, I had to bust my ass to get straight As. I wouldn't even know my child was actually even in school if it wasn't for ParentVue, which is the only reason I know DC is actually doing all of the assignments. But it's difficult for me to gauge how much DS is actually learning and absorbing. Maybe DC just a natural learner and grasps concepts more easily than I did, in which case, great! Or maybe APS expects the bare minimum which makes it easy for a student to just coast. I don't know. And it's not from lack of trying to understand or asking questions. Whenever I ask about school, I usually just get one or two-word responses. Everything is good or fine.

This is a longwinded way of saying I'm worried that the middle school isn't doing its job to properly prepare its students for the rigors of high school. Anyone else worried about this? How did your "coaster" do transitioning from MS to HS?

Don't worry, APS is watering down the HS classes, too.

Agree. Our experience was:

5th grade teachers pressuring students via "when you're in middle school, you're gonna hafta ______ and you won't be able to ______."
6th grade: prophecy unfulfilled.
MS: "when you're in high school......"
HS: generally little homework for most classes, no homework for some, AP class homework heaviest but not nearly what we kept being told it would be. Plus, little or no consequences for turning work in late and multiple opportunities for "grade recovery" or "grade improvement."

Wish we had (and had been able to) go private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Algebra in 8th grade is very advanced. Your kid is way ahead, OP.

It's not advanced, it's pretty standard for APS MS.

Agree with this. We attended an open house for BASIS in Mclean. They said all of their students start at Algebra II in 9th grade. Coming from APS, that means that you need to have taken Alg 1 in 7th and Geometry in 8th, but only a small number of students are allowed into that math track (at least that's the case at Swanson). Most do Alg 1 in 8th grade and I guess are behind private school students. Not sure what that means for college admissions down the road.

It means they end up at nova clearly

Nothing wrong with NOVA. And it's a very wise financial choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My niece is at Basis Mclean and there are 6th graders coming from FFX in algebra 1. She feels like the lower end of the class taking Pre-algebra in 6th. This shows that if APS would actually challenge our bright students, they would probably be able to soar. Unfortunately, they have brainwashed parents to pick lower levels of math to avoid a challenge. I feel like a chump paying so much to live here for such a poor public school education.

Maybe APS should just actually challenge all of its students more in all subjects and people will be less focused on being "behind" taking grade level math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you are interested in what your kid is learning in middle school, you can sign up for an observer canvas account. It lets you see what the teacher posts in canvas but not assignments they link to in google docs or other systems. I find it easier to sit down periodically with my middle schooler and his iPad and have him show me what he’s doing in each subject.

Observer accounts are a waste. Just login to your kid's account directly.