be honest...

[Anonymous]

has anyone written a recommendation for a friend of a friend's child even though you haven't met the child but not reveal that you don't know the child in the letter? i've heard it happens all the time. is this true? i am not looking for moral comments here...just curious if this ever happens or if this is the absolute worst thing you could do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:has anyone written a recommendation for a friend of a friend's child even though you haven't met the child but not reveal that you don't know the child in the letter? i've heard it happens all the time. is this true? i am not looking for moral comments here...just curious if this ever happens or if this is the absolute worst thing you could do.

op here again..."by worse thing you could do," i mean that if found out my friend's kid would be rejected from school?

[Anonymous]

I personally wouldn't do it, and can't imagine my friends asking me to lie.

[Anonymous]

No, but I too know people who barely know the kid, but write the letter as a favor to the parents. I suspect those letters are not particularly helpful from an admissions point of view.

[pollyanna]

The problem with such a thing is that the letter will either not say anything concrete because the writer does not know the child, in which case the reader will be able to tell by the absence of detail, or it may say things that do not align with recs from teachers who obviously know the child. Very shaky ground indeed.

I happen to know very well a former admissions director of one of the "big 3" that I was applying to for my DS last year. She is a very close friend of my mother but she had only met my son once. I know that if I had asked her she would have written a letter of recommendation for my son but I did not, not least for the reasons stated above as well as, of course, that I would be asking her to lie. It did not sit well with me.

[Anonymous]

pollyanna wrote:The problem with such a thing is that the letter will either not say anything concrete because the writer does not know the child, in which case the reader will be able to tell by the absence on detail, or it may say things that do not align with recs from teachers who obviously know the child. Very shaky ground indeed.

I happen to know very well a former admissions director of one of the "big 3" that I was applying to for my DS last year. She is a very close friend of my mother but she had only met my son once. I know that if I had asked her she would have written a letter of recommendation for my son but I did not, not least for the reasons stated above as well as, of course, that I would be asking her to lie. It did not sit well with me.

Pollyanna (and others) are these extra letters of recommendation (beyond teacher recommendations) important? Did you have these letters when you applied and, if so, do you think they influenced the admission outcome? Do these letters come across negatively (i.e., creating a "thick file")?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

pollyanna wrote:The problem with such a thing is that the letter will either not say anything concrete because the writer does not know the child, in which case the reader will be able to tell by the absence on detail, or it may say things that do not align with recs from teachers who obviously know the child. Very shaky ground indeed.

I happen to know very well a former admissions director of one of the "big 3" that I was applying to for my DS last year. She is a very close friend of my mother but she had only met my son once. I know that if I had asked her she would have written a letter of recommendation for my son but I did not, not least for the reasons stated above as well as, of course, that I would be asking her to lie. It did not sit well with me.

Pollyanna (and others) are these extra letters of recommendation (beyond teacher recommendations) important? Did you have these letters when you applied and, if so, do you think they influenced the admission outcome? Do these letters come across negatively (i.e., creating a "thick file")?

These letters are important if the person writing it knows your child very well and can write specifics that do not conflict with the is observed at the playdate AND is affiliated with the school - current parent, alumni, big donor etc.

[Anonymous]

Anyone concerned about the part of the OP's post that makes it clear that she would essentially be asking someone to lie? I would hope that if a school found out that an applicant's parent asked someone to lie, that the school would reject the student. Not the student's fault, but why should a school condone/encourage this type of behavior? Isn't this a pretty basic issue - can I lie and what's the worst that will happen if I do? Sounds like something my toddler would ask, though I think even he already has the sense to know that, no, you may not lie, and that, if you do, you cannot predict the consequences, but the worst one will be that you've intentionally destroyed your credibility and character. Are we really this far gone?

[pollyanna]

[quote
Pollyanna (and others) are these extra letters of recommendation (beyond teacher recommendations) important? Did you have these letters when you applied and, if so, do you think they influenced the admission outcome? Do these letters come across negatively (i.e., creating a "thick file")?

We did not add any extra letters in the end.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone concerned about the part of the OP's post that makes it clear that she would essentially be asking someone to lie? I would hope that if a school found out that an applicant's parent asked someone to lie, that the school would reject the student. Not the student's fault, but why should a school condone/encourage this type of behavior? Isn't this a pretty basic issue - can I lie and what's the worst that will happen if I do? Sounds like something my toddler would ask, though I think even he already has the sense to know that, no, you may not lie, and that, if you do, you cannot predict the consequences, but the worst one will be that you've intentionally destroyed your credibility and character. Are we really this far gone?

op here...you obviously didn't read my post!! i never said that i was asking someone to write a recommendation for me. i said that a friend of a friend asked me to write a rec for her child. i didn't say what it was for by the way, so relax and take it easy - don't worry she isn't trying to get into one of your big three schools! some parents need to seriously gets lives. develop some hobbies or interests for you and your children aside from winning "trophies" by getting into the right schools, right this, right this. maybe this will help you from becoming neurotically obsessive about this!

[Anonymous]

The "she" I was referring to, perhaps without the precise clarity required for participation on this board, was your friend's friend for whose child you would be writing a recommendation. And forgive that I assumed that the recommendation would be for a school, but your posting is in the "Schools, Daycare and Pre-School" portion of the site so I guess I just made what you've found to be a highly offensive mental leap. The crux of what I was getting at is that your post implied that you would intentionally leave out of a recommendation that you do not know the child you are recommending. I would assume, if I received a recommendation, that the person writing it had at least some first hand knowledge of the child. Indeed, the only reason to leave out of the recommendation that you don't know the child is because you hope the reader will make that same inaccurate assumption. To me, that's telling a lie.

And as for my family, you don't even know who I am, what my kids are like, and whether or not we may some day be in what you see as a competitive environment. Fortunately for us, we're a double priority at our top choice school so, even if some of the other applicants have lies to back them up, I'm pretty sure we'll be just fine.

I find it truly astonishing that you raise a topic that makes it clear that there would be a lite involved (and indeed title your post "Be honest," which seems to indicate that you know in your heart that what you are considering doing is wrong), and then jump on someone for raising that simple fact. And then to make assumptions about my lack of hobbies and competitive nature in defense of what you're proposing. Really, I'm floored.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The "she" I was referring to, perhaps without the precise clarity required for participation on this board, was your friend's friend for whose child you would be writing a recommendation. And forgive that I assumed that the recommendation would be for a school, but your posting is in the "Schools, Daycare and Pre-School" portion of the site so I guess I just made what you've found to be a highly offensive mental leap. The crux of what I was getting at is that your post implied that you would intentionally leave out of a recommendation that you do not know the child you are recommending. I would assume, if I received a recommendation, that the person writing it had at least some first hand knowledge of the child. Indeed, the only reason to leave out of the recommendation that you don't know the child is because you hope the reader will make that same inaccurate assumption. To me, that's telling a lie.

And as for my family, you don't even know who I am, what my kids are like, and whether or not we may some day be in what you see as a competitive environment. Fortunately for us, we're a double priority at our top choice school so, even if some of the other applicants have lies to back them up, I'm pretty sure we'll be just fine.

I find it truly astonishing that you raise a topic that makes it clear that there would be a lite involved (and indeed title your post "Be honest," which seems to indicate that you know in your heart that what you are considering doing is wrong), and then jump on someone for raising that simple fact. And then to make assumptions about my lack of hobbies and competitive nature in defense of what you're proposing. Really, I'm floored.

oh "double priority" gag - this is exactly what i am talking about! yes, education is important to me but not to the extremes that i believe some people on this board go to. by the way, i never said we weren't interested in the big three, what i said is that who i am , who my child is, is not defined by what school my child gets into and it is my personal feeling that many people do define their child's success and their success as a parent by what school they attend, etc... and i think it just adds to the pressure cooker environment. as for my friend's friend...it is for a school but for 2 year olds, not prek.

[Anonymous]

You're actually claiming to be disgusted at what people are wiling to do to get kids into schools in the same thread that you are asking what will happen if you mislead a school in a recommendation? Unbelievable. And to refer to certain schools as "your big three" and snidely say that I shouldn't worry that you're not talking about one of them is condescending and wholly off the point of your post. I have no idea why you would think that my belief that adults shouldn't lie to help kids get into school makes me someone who is without hobbies, overly focussed on schools, and using my kids or their accomplishments as trophies. To the contrary, our top choice for a school is not one of the big three I assume you're referring to, but rather is a school that our family has long standing connections with and that we have been involved with for decades. I mention the double priority (albeit snidely) only in response to your fake concern and guidance that I not be concerned that your friend's child might be applying to "your big three." We are fortunate not to have to be too concerned about admissions processes, both as a result of the school we like best and that our priority status makes it significantly more likely that our kids will be accepted.

Perhaps you could clarify again why you think it's ok and consistent with your ethic/morals intentionally to omit in a letter of recommendation that you actually have never met the child?