Looking into a career in either law or academe (need advice)

[PaleoConPrep]

This is not a political thread. I need polite, serious advice. I'll be starting at undergraduate college next fall. I'm applying to Sewanee ED. If I don't get into Sewanee, I'll go to New St. Andrews College. My two main career interest are law and academe. I'm looking to either attend law school and become a corporate attorney, or peruse a PhD in Classics and become a college professor. I know the job markets for both of these fields are pretty terrible. Does where you attend undergrad matter for law school or a Classics PhD program? What do I need to do in undergrad to make sure I'm a strong applicant for law school or PhD school?

[Anonymous]

Academia?

[Anonymous]

I would look into St. John's in Annapolis or Santa Fe if ED doesn't work out. They are a non-obscure great books school. I will be honest with you: going to an undeard of Christian college won't help you unless you plan on going to get your PhD or EdD at a religious institution. Secular schools will raise their eyebrows at it. St John's is a good school for anyone considering law or academia. If St. John's doesn't work out--better to go to a big state school with a classics Department if you are unable to get into a small liberals arts college with a classics program.

[Anonymous]

You don't want to hear this, but where you go to undergrad matters a lot for both. That is because you need to get into an elite grad school or law school. Without that, you have very, very little chance for a viable career as either. Definitely re-evaluate your idea once you have applied to grad school or law school. If you're not in a top 5 grad program or top 5 law school, don't go down that road and waste a lot of time and money.

[Anonymous]

Advice about classics:

https://classics.artsci.wustl.edu/thinking-graduate-school-classics

Don't forget this: "The job market for university professors of Classics is exceedingly tight. There is a good possibility that you will never obtain a permanent position teaching Classics at a college or university, even if you successfully complete a PhD in Classics in a first-rate program."

[Anonymous]

You can major in anything you want and go to law school. Just get a strong background in writing.

[Anonymous]

Please be open to changing your mind. College is about finding yourself. That is what college is about. When I applied to college I intended to major in Japanese studies. I'm now an attorney.

[Anonymous]

As for the law career, there are lots of things you can do with a small school undergrad, middle of the road law school academic record. You can be a prosecutor, you can hang our a shingle and be a divorce attorney and so on. One thing you are unlikely to be able to do is to become a corporate attorney for a company of any size. If you want to stick with your academic plan, and still become a big corporate attorney, I suggest getting your undergraduate degree in biochemistry. Then heading to the patent office for a few years and then law school. The problem with this, of course, is it will cut off any chance of an academic career in the classics. The bottom line is you really need to be more than a big fish in a small pond to make it in either of your chosen fields.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You don't want to hear this, but where you go to undergrad matters a lot for both. That is because you need to get into an elite grad school or law school. Without that, you have very, very little chance for a viable career as either. Definitely re-evaluate your idea once you have applied to grad school or law school. If you're not in a top 5 grad program or top 5 law school, don't go down that road and waste a lot of time and money.

Undergrad doesn't matter too much. I went to a not great undergrad and went to harvard from there. I had a 3.9 and 99% lsat scores. I had slightly above average grades in law school and had plenty of big firm offers. No one seemed to care about my undergrad.

Law school matters, but undergrad doesn't, so long as you distinguish yourself there.

[Anonymous]

You are not going to get into a good classics PhD program from anywhere but the top schools, I'm afraid. I would not retain college professor as a career option at this juncture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Advice about classics:

https://classics.artsci.wustl.edu/thinking-graduate-school-classics

Don't forget this: "The job market for university professors of Classics is exceedingly tight. There is a good possibility that you will never obtain a permanent position teaching Classics at a college or university, even if you successfully complete a PhD in Classics in a first-rate program."

+1

I have nothing against the academic world--I'm married to a professor, and I think people who have a passion for the work AND are good teachers are integral to the college education of our young people--but this is spot-on. Positions for classics professors are incredibly hard to find. My SIL is absolutely brilliant and well-rounded, and is pursuing her Ph.D. in Classics at a top-level Ivy League university. But even she is nervous about her prospects.

[Anonymous]

Agreed that undergrad doesn't necessarily matter a lot in terms of prestige - I did my PhD at Johns Hopkins and fed straight in from an undergrad in western Canada.

I will say though that my undergrad in western Canada was at a fantastic public research institution which enabled me to take classes in my subject (history) but also chemistry, physics, biochem, physiology, religion, bioethics, English, music, math. I don't know that a small religious college would have stood me in good stead in applying for grad school to major east coast privates.

So on that note, I fully echo the PPs who have encouraged an open mind. Spend time in undergraduate becoming as well rounded as you can; take a variety of classes and don't go in with a set plan. Find things that challenge you. Then reevaluate in junior year. And think about finding a college that will set you up for whatever you decide to do, not that will set you up for a classics PhD or law degree alone.

[Anonymous]

PaleoCon here
Why would attending a religious school put me at a disadvantage for PhD school? I spoke with the admissions director at New St. Andrews, and he told me that 1 student who graduated this May got into a Classics MA program at Harvard. Now I know there's a big difference between an MA program and a PhD program, but it seems like Harvard is fine with NSA. Hypothetically, let's say Sewanee doesn't work out for whatever reason and I attend NSA. If I get excellent grades, take several years of Greek & Latin, and get excellent GRE scores, would Classics PhD programs seriously look negatively at my application because I attend a religious school?

[Anonymous]

I don't know anything about the classics, but as a lawyer, it is the law school that matters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PaleoCon here
Why would attending a religious school put me at a disadvantage for PhD school? I spoke with the admissions director at New St. Andrews, and he told me that 1 student who graduated this May got into a Classics MA program at Harvard. Now I know there's a big difference between an MA program and a PhD program, but it seems like Harvard is fine with NSA. Hypothetically, let's say Sewanee doesn't work out for whatever reason and I attend NSA. If I get excellent grades, take several years of Greek & Latin, and get excellent GRE scores, would Classics PhD programs seriously look negatively at my application because I attend a religious school?

Hopkins alum here. It may not put you at a disadvantage, but it very possibly could limit you. Why limit yourself, right? Just look at other options - there are other more well-rounded institutions that have strength in classical languages.

Also, just an aside - if you do decide to pursue academia, you should only do it if you can get into a top tier school with a full scholarship through the PhD. Do not under any circumstances go if you have to pay for it, and do not under any circumstances go if you're not at a very top school. The job market is a beast. (These again are reasons why you want your college experience to be a well-rounded one, at a school people have heard of. If you don't have a 4.0 GPA and GRE scores in the 99th percentile, humanities academia is a fool's errand for you. Unfair and sad, but true.)