New opposition petition to the Maury-Miner boundary proposal from DME

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It has hit the Post:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2024/02/14/maury-miner-elementary-dc-boundary-proposal/

The article could have been worse but it did not accurately represent the logistical and administrative concerns, or the concerns about whether the cluster would actually help at-risk kids academically.

[Anonymous]

+1. Lame article.

[Anonymous]

Super lame when the article notes (without question) the goal of "diversifying" Maury because it is, gasp, 60% white! Doesn't that necessarily mean it is 40% kids of color? Sounds pretty diverse to me!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Super lame when the article notes (without question) the goal of "diversifying" Maury because it is, gasp, 60% white! Doesn't that necessarily mean it is 40% kids of color? Sounds pretty diverse to me!

A majority white school always needs more diversity.

A majority poc school always needs more white kids to make it a better place.

It’s quite the conundrum.

[Anonymous]

There could be sound reasons for combining the schools but “diversity” isn’t one. Maybe they could allow Miner kids to participate in Maury-based after school programs and provide transport to and fro.

But academic outcomes (at least gaps) are the result of out-of-school factors so don’t expect any changes there.

On the flip side, I highly doubt there will be an appreciable academic downsides for the Maury kids, notwithstanding the logistical wrinkles that need to be ironed out. So it doesn’t seem to make much sense, but not sure I’d muster the energy to oppose it on the Maury side.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There could be sound reasons for combining the schools but “diversity” isn’t one. Maybe they could allow Miner kids to participate in Maury-based after school programs and provide transport to and fro.

But academic outcomes (at least gaps) are the result of out-of-school factors so don’t expect any changes there.

On the flip side, I highly doubt there will be an appreciable academic downsides for the Maury kids, notwithstanding the logistical wrinkles that need to be ironed out. So it doesn’t seem to make much sense, but not sure I’d muster the energy to oppose it on the Maury side.

I oppose it from the Maury side not because the populations will be combined, but because there will be two campuses. I think it would negatively impacts kids across the socio-economic spectrum to transition between two schools with relatively large student populations. Kids will fall through the cracks. I think it would lead to attrition as seen at Watkins, negatively impacting Eliot-Hine. If there were miraculously a giant school that could house all the kids, I would support combining the schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There could be sound reasons for combining the schools but “diversity” isn’t one. Maybe they could allow Miner kids to participate in Maury-based after school programs and provide transport to and fro.

But academic outcomes (at least gaps) are the result of out-of-school factors so don’t expect any changes there.

On the flip side, I highly doubt there will be an appreciable academic downsides for the Maury kids, notwithstanding the logistical wrinkles that need to be ironed out. So it doesn’t seem to make much sense, but not sure I’d muster the energy to oppose it on the Maury side.

I oppose it from the Maury side not because the populations will be combined, but because there will be two campuses. I think it would negatively impacts kids across the socio-economic spectrum to transition between two schools with relatively large student populations. Kids will fall through the cracks. I think it would lead to attrition as seen at Watkins, negatively impacting Eliot-Hine. If there were miraculously a giant school that could house all the kids, I would support combining the schools.

Agree and the article completely glosses over that. And also glosses over the terrible academic results at Miner and why a cluster is any way to remediate that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Annoyingly, the article doesn't get to the heart of the matter: endemic low DCPS capacity and general incompetence. The UMC and white parents come off as selfish, elitist jerks in the WaPo when the truth is that they know that Maury is only so wonderful even without it being merged with a Title 1 school. When you've finally got a functional school in a dysfunctional system, after years of struggle on the part of neighborhood parents, don't mess with it. The inconvenient truth is that DCPS isn't doing a great job with the high SES kids they've got. There's a reason that more than a third of the Maury 4th graders (and most of the Brent 4th graders) don't return for 5th grade, and it's not because DCPS inspires great confidence in most upper grades UMC Hill parents. Risking killing a goose laying golden eggs won't improve matters.

The reason for this is middle school & 5th grade being the charter entry year. I don't disagree with what you're saying overall, but the 5th grade exodus is 100% driven by DCPS & DCPCSes having different MS entry years and has nothing to do with the quality of the elementary schools.

[Anonymous]

I don't agree with the above, at least for some families. We'd have left Maury after 4th for two kids if we got spots at BASIS, or a private school spot with decent fi aid. The math was too easy in DCPS for our kids, along with the English, science and social studies! Kids weren't taught executive function skills in 5th grade at Maury like at BASIS. That's what happens in an urban school system with no GT ES ed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Annoyingly, the article doesn't get to the heart of the matter: endemic low DCPS capacity and general incompetence. The UMC and white parents come off as selfish, elitist jerks in the WaPo when the truth is that they know that Maury is only so wonderful even without it being merged with a Title 1 school. When you've finally got a functional school in a dysfunctional system, after years of struggle on the part of neighborhood parents, don't mess with it. The inconvenient truth is that DCPS isn't doing a great job with the high SES kids they've got. There's a reason that more than a third of the Maury 4th graders (and most of the Brent 4th graders) don't return for 5th grade, and it's not because DCPS inspires great confidence in most upper grades UMC Hill parents. Risking killing a goose laying golden eggs won't improve matters.

The reason for this is middle school & 5th grade being the charter entry year. I don't disagree with what you're saying overall, but the 5th grade exodus is 100% driven by DCPS & DCPCSes having different MS entry years and has nothing to do with the quality of the elementary schools.

No one is leaving a DCPS for 5th if they have the programming they want in their by right middle school. The exodus is driven by what's missing in middle school. Fix that and the charters starting MS early would fold or change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Annoyingly, the article doesn't get to the heart of the matter: endemic low DCPS capacity and general incompetence. The UMC and white parents come off as selfish, elitist jerks in the WaPo when the truth is that they know that Maury is only so wonderful even without it being merged with a Title 1 school. When you've finally got a functional school in a dysfunctional system, after years of struggle on the part of neighborhood parents, don't mess with it. The inconvenient truth is that DCPS isn't doing a great job with the high SES kids they've got. There's a reason that more than a third of the Maury 4th graders (and most of the Brent 4th graders) don't return for 5th grade, and it's not because DCPS inspires great confidence in most upper grades UMC Hill parents. Risking killing a goose laying golden eggs won't improve matters.

The reason for this is middle school & 5th grade being the charter entry year. I don't disagree with what you're saying overall, but the 5th grade exodus is 100% driven by DCPS & DCPCSes having different MS entry years and has nothing to do with the quality of the elementary schools.

+1, it's also a problem that self-reinforces, because as some families leave these strong elementaries for 5th, it hollows out the 5th grade class (and often brings in an influx of new students at a point in elementary school where integrating them will be challenging). This leaves other families who have been there for years with a choice of staying, knowing that the 5th grade experience will be very different than prior years, or leaving, and some families choose to leave even though 5th is actually a weird year to move or go private.

Latin and BASIS starting at 5th has a lot of follow on effects that have really impacted elementaries in DC, or at least those outside the Deal or Hardy feeders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Annoyingly, the article doesn't get to the heart of the matter: endemic low DCPS capacity and general incompetence. The UMC and white parents come off as selfish, elitist jerks in the WaPo when the truth is that they know that Maury is only so wonderful even without it being merged with a Title 1 school. When you've finally got a functional school in a dysfunctional system, after years of struggle on the part of neighborhood parents, don't mess with it. The inconvenient truth is that DCPS isn't doing a great job with the high SES kids they've got. There's a reason that more than a third of the Maury 4th graders (and most of the Brent 4th graders) don't return for 5th grade, and it's not because DCPS inspires great confidence in most upper grades UMC Hill parents. Risking killing a goose laying golden eggs won't improve matters.

The reason for this is middle school & 5th grade being the charter entry year. I don't disagree with what you're saying overall, but the 5th grade exodus is 100% driven by DCPS & DCPCSes having different MS entry years and has nothing to do with the quality of the elementary schools.

+1, it's also a problem that self-reinforces, because as some families leave these strong elementaries for 5th, it hollows out the 5th grade class (and often brings in an influx of new students at a point in elementary school where integrating them will be challenging). This leaves other families who have been there for years with a choice of staying, knowing that the 5th grade experience will be very different than prior years, or leaving, and some families choose to leave even though 5th is actually a weird year to move or go private.

100% agree with all of this. At our SH feeder it's even more frustrating, because lots of people are actually fine with SH but figure they might as well try out BASIS/Latin in 5th grade since they can always return for 6th and start SH on time anyway... and some do come back (usually families for whom BASIS doesn't prove to be a good fit).


Latin and BASIS starting at 5th has a lot of follow on effects that have really impacted elementaries in DC, or at least those outside the Deal or Hardy feeders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Annoyingly, the article doesn't get to the heart of the matter: endemic low DCPS capacity and general incompetence. The UMC and white parents come off as selfish, elitist jerks in the WaPo when the truth is that they know that Maury is only so wonderful even without it being merged with a Title 1 school. When you've finally got a functional school in a dysfunctional system, after years of struggle on the part of neighborhood parents, don't mess with it. The inconvenient truth is that DCPS isn't doing a great job with the high SES kids they've got. There's a reason that more than a third of the Maury 4th graders (and most of the Brent 4th graders) don't return for 5th grade, and it's not because DCPS inspires great confidence in most upper grades UMC Hill parents. Risking killing a goose laying golden eggs won't improve matters.

The reason for this is middle school & 5th grade being the charter entry year. I don't disagree with what you're saying overall, but the 5th grade exodus is 100% driven by DCPS & DCPCSes having different MS entry years and has nothing to do with the quality of the elementary schools.

+1, it's also a problem that self-reinforces, because as some families leave these strong elementaries for 5th, it hollows out the 5th grade class (and often brings in an influx of new students at a point in elementary school where integrating them will be challenging). This leaves other families who have been there for years with a choice of staying, knowing that the 5th grade experience will be very different than prior years, or leaving, and some families choose to leave even though 5th is actually a weird year to move or go private.

Latin and BASIS starting at 5th has a lot of follow on effects that have really impacted elementaries in DC, or at least those outside the Deal or Hardy feeders.

100% agree with all of this. At our SH feeder it's even more frustrating, because lots of people are actually fine with SH but figure they might as well try out BASIS/Latin in 5th grade since they can always return for 6th and start SH on time anyway... and some do come back (usually families for whom BASIS doesn't prove to be a good fit).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Annoyingly, the article doesn't get to the heart of the matter: endemic low DCPS capacity and general incompetence. The UMC and white parents come off as selfish, elitist jerks in the WaPo when the truth is that they know that Maury is only so wonderful even without it being merged with a Title 1 school. When you've finally got a functional school in a dysfunctional system, after years of struggle on the part of neighborhood parents, don't mess with it. The inconvenient truth is that DCPS isn't doing a great job with the high SES kids they've got. There's a reason that more than a third of the Maury 4th graders (and most of the Brent 4th graders) don't return for 5th grade, and it's not because DCPS inspires great confidence in most upper grades UMC Hill parents. Risking killing a goose laying golden eggs won't improve matters.

The reason for this is middle school & 5th grade being the charter entry year. I don't disagree with what you're saying overall, but the 5th grade exodus is 100% driven by DCPS & DCPCSes having different MS entry years and has nothing to do with the quality of the elementary schools.

No one is leaving a DCPS for 5th if they have the programming they want in their by right middle school. The exodus is driven by what's missing in middle school. Fix that and the charters starting MS early would fold or change.

But this is harder for a DCPS middle school to do. A charter can come in and say "hey here's our approach to MS, if you are interested, do the lottery and grab a spot." As a new school without an existing student body, they can create this kind of offering without alienating existing families.

The problem DCPS schools face is that they have current students. EH and Eastern already have students enrolled. Many are OOB and there is a high at risk contingent. These schools struggle to say "Ok, here's how we're going to change the school to meet the needs and expectations of high SES IB families" without disregarding the needs of students who are currently enrolled.

This is actually a dynamic that also exists at Miner.

DCPS schools, because they must take all IB students and because they are relied upon by at risk kids in a way charters are not, do not have the same leeway as charters to create tantalizing programming for high SES kids. It's not a true education "marketplace" because DCPS has to educate the 50% of its students who are at risk and can't just focus on those that aren't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There could be sound reasons for combining the schools but “diversity” isn’t one. Maybe they could allow Miner kids to participate in Maury-based after school programs and provide transport to and fro.

But academic outcomes (at least gaps) are the result of out-of-school factors so don’t expect any changes there.

On the flip side, I highly doubt there will be an appreciable academic downsides for the Maury kids, notwithstanding the logistical wrinkles that need to be ironed out. So it doesn’t seem to make much sense, but not sure I’d muster the energy to oppose it on the Maury side.

I oppose it from the Maury side not because the populations will be combined, but because there will be two campuses. I think it would negatively impacts kids across the socio-economic spectrum to transition between two schools with relatively large student populations. Kids will fall through the cracks. I think it would lead to attrition as seen at Watkins, negatively impacting Eliot-Hine. If there were miraculously a giant school that could house all the kids, I would support combining the schools.

I agree with the concerns about the two campuses. I do still have reservations about combining the schools in the absence of tracked classrooms/some sort of GT program. If you combined Maury and Miner last year, Maury students in the upper grades would go from being in classrooms where ~70% are scoring proficient on PARCC to classrooms which are just ~50% proficient, with fully a quarter of the class scoring level 1. If I'm a parent with options, I'm not sure I'd sign my kid up for that. I don't see how a single classroom could possibly offer adequate attention to either the high scoring or low scoring students in that scenario.