ECNL moving to school year not calendar

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I just don’t see ECNL doing as much as some people hope they will do. I could see them addressing the trapped player problem in some way for next year’s crop of 8th graders but even that’s a long shot.

I will say I’ve seen this posted everywhere but have not seen US club or ECNL post the announcement plan that came out.

ECNL has nothing to do with HS soccer…why do people keep trotting out the 8th grade issue like it’s a grand injustice.

The lower grade players on a club team still get 4 years of HS soccer if they want to play HS soccer…they just don’t get it at the same time the 9th graders on their club team are able to play HS soccer. If you’re on an NPL or classic team, sure maybe those awful but extra touches are helpful. But if you’re playing ECNL (and your ECNL club allows you to play HS soccer…which many do not) then HS soccer reps are bad reps, and the 8th grader that is making up for it by playing in club, or grinding with a trainer will be 1000x better off.

Another BY wacko that has no clue how things work. Ofcourse ECNL allows HS play, lookup the history and why everyone gravitated to ECNL in the first place. ECNL has ALOT to do with HS soccer. ENCL kids aren't playing at school to get better BTW, life isn't all about going pro for these kids. Even the phenoms want to help their HS win state championship and ball out in front of classmates from time to time.

And if you don't care about the 8th grade issue then you're just a BY leftover trying to justify why the current system isn't that bad. I'm sorry, but your January kid is now going to compete the December kid sitting right next to them in history class. Maybe that is why your kid doesn't play in HS, because it would expose how inferior they are to the Q3/Q4 kids in the SAME grade. What a broken system...

News flash, many if not most ECNL clubs do not allow their players to play HS until they’re committed to a college.

That is a patently false statement. ECNL thrived where DA didn't in large part because it allowed for HS participation. ECNL for U-15-U19 is only for one season, whereas U-13/U-14 is for the whole year. Why? Because of the direct conflict with HS soccer. Regardless of your opinion of HS soccer, ECNL clubs work closely with the High Schools in many regions. Heck, a lot of High School work at those clubs too.

You’re not correct. And it depends on the ECNL club…the most competitive (and many that want to be the most competitive) DO NOT allow it. Does “ECNL” allow for it? Yes. But that doesn’t mean clubs have to allow for it.

Tons of reasons for this. They don’t want to lose time un-coaching bad HS practices, they don’t want added work and wear on their athletes, they want to minimize injuries, they want to make sure the athlete is getting the right exposure to the schools they want to target, etc.

One of the big selling points for RL in many markets is that the kids have the time and freedom to play HS soccer if that is important to them. And I can tell you, for kids that playing HS soccer is important enough to drop to RL or play for a bottom ECNL club, is a kid that has already capped their soccer career.

I know this much. The 2024 09 Boys National Champions were SC Surf having beaten vaunted Pipeline in the final match. Every single one of them played HS ball. Facts. But perhaps that team isn't among "the most competitive" to you.

Maybe your club's ECNL prohibits HS play, but painting all of ECNL with such a broad brush is wrong. The ECNL Southeast clubs only play in the Fall. There is no club option for them in the Spring for U15-U19.

Nobody said all ECNL…you made that up in order to argue.

The original poster definitely painted a broad brush and tried to imply that high level ECNL players don't play HS. Everyone here is calling bull. I'm in SoCal and everyone plays HS ball here. Just look at all the recruiting profiles online. Its part of the marketing package. So and so played for xyz club and helped their HS team win CIF championship, blah blah. The idea that high level recruits don't play HS, at least on the girls side is silly. Not as familiar with the boys side but multiple kids quit MLSN for the sole reason of playing HS. Ban kids from their school sports at your own peril. The season is only a couple months long, seems dumb to take that stance in a competitive market where top kids have options.

This is ECNL…define “high level recruit”. D1 ain’t what it used to be.

D1 is the destination for everyone I know. Nobody is sending their daughter across the world to play soccer. Boys might be different, IDK. But high level recruit is national team members courted by top 10 schools.

The point I’m making is that there D1 is a vast landscape. Being a D1 tier recruit is not high level. There are bench warmers that are D1 level recruits.

It happens. I know of a couple of players who were among the best in their state, recruited by and were on a top-tier D1 team and rarely saw the field in college. They got a good education, at least. Except for the world's-best, everyone is humbled eventually.

Even the worlds best are humbled eventually. Pulisic is arguably the best player the US ever produced (well, kindof...took the Germans to intervene and identify the talent. He barely sniffed the field at Chelsea. Lesson for all the Q4 parents rejoicing...if you're the best player on the field, you're on the wrong field.

D1 is truly a vast landscape and from what everyone has told us, chasing top programs is fools gold. It sounds like a miserable experience and regardless of talent, not something we're interested in. Pro isn't a destination for us. Family of physicians and lawyers, we're looking at Ivy or great teaching institutions and a program that will take care of our daughter, not just on the field but all around. If you really want your kid in the power 5, ask around so you know what you're getting into. Not discounting if that's your dream but I've yet to speak with someone that loved the experience. Every year the transfer portal is loaded with young women that realize the reality of playing at those schools.

We had a younger travel coach 2 years ago who played D1 for all 4 years (He was tall and fast). Not a powerhouse D1 mind you. In the end, he told me he would have chosen D3 if he had to do it all over again. He kept in touch with his buddies who played D3 and he said their experience was a lot more fun than his. He felt like it was cut throat in D1 and he felt there was not much in the way of loyalty to the player or players to the team. (Could have just been his experience.) But in the end, he just came back to Alexandria/ Annandale to Coach travel soccer and work his day job. He did have a teammate go play pro in USL and he stopped after 2 years due to the limited ceiling, low pay and burnout. You got to enjoy the experience along the way instead of solely focusing on the destination.

I did an individual sport in D1 and there was often a lot of tension and unspoken competition between those of us who specialized in the same things. If you were in the top spot you knew your own teammates were training with the goal of knocking you out of it. And even the coach would completely change how he acted depending on if you were performing well or not. One bad day and he would be downright nasty even if you normally did very well. I can’t even imagine how much worse it is on a team sport where evaluating performance is more subjective. I assume some teams are downright toxic. People I know who did sports at lower tier D1 or D2/D3 do seem to speak more positively about their experiences. D1 was an incredible opportunity but very stressful all the time.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don’t see ECNL doing as much as some people hope they will do. I could see them addressing the trapped player problem in some way for next year’s crop of 8th graders but even that’s a long shot.

I will say I’ve seen this posted everywhere but have not seen US club or ECNL post the announcement plan that came out.

ECNL has nothing to do with HS soccer…why do people keep trotting out the 8th grade issue like it’s a grand injustice.

The lower grade players on a club team still get 4 years of HS soccer if they want to play HS soccer…they just don’t get it at the same time the 9th graders on their club team are able to play HS soccer. If you’re on an NPL or classic team, sure maybe those awful but extra touches are helpful. But if you’re playing ECNL (and your ECNL club allows you to play HS soccer…which many do not) then HS soccer reps are bad reps, and the 8th grader that is making up for it by playing in club, or grinding with a trainer will be 1000x better off.

Another BY wacko that has no clue how things work. Ofcourse ECNL allows HS play, lookup the history and why everyone gravitated to ECNL in the first place. ECNL has ALOT to do with HS soccer. ENCL kids aren't playing at school to get better BTW, life isn't all about going pro for these kids. Even the phenoms want to help their HS win state championship and ball out in front of classmates from time to time.

And if you don't care about the 8th grade issue then you're just a BY leftover trying to justify why the current system isn't that bad. I'm sorry, but your January kid is now going to compete the December kid sitting right next to them in history class. Maybe that is why your kid doesn't play in HS, because it would expose how inferior they are to the Q3/Q4 kids in the SAME grade. What a broken system...

News flash, many if not most ECNL clubs do not allow their players to play HS until they’re committed to a college.

That is a patently false statement. ECNL thrived where DA didn't in large part because it allowed for HS participation. ECNL for U-15-U19 is only for one season, whereas U-13/U-14 is for the whole year. Why? Because of the direct conflict with HS soccer. Regardless of your opinion of HS soccer, ECNL clubs work closely with the High Schools in many regions. Heck, a lot of High School work at those clubs too.

You’re not correct. And it depends on the ECNL club…the most competitive (and many that want to be the most competitive) DO NOT allow it. Does “ECNL” allow for it? Yes. But that doesn’t mean clubs have to allow for it.

Tons of reasons for this. They don’t want to lose time un-coaching bad HS practices, they don’t want added work and wear on their athletes, they want to minimize injuries, they want to make sure the athlete is getting the right exposure to the schools they want to target, etc.

One of the big selling points for RL in many markets is that the kids have the time and freedom to play HS soccer if that is important to them. And I can tell you, for kids that playing HS soccer is important enough to drop to RL or play for a bottom ECNL club, is a kid that has already capped their soccer career.

I know this much. The 2024 09 Boys National Champions were SC Surf having beaten vaunted Pipeline in the final match. Every single one of them played HS ball. Facts. But perhaps that team isn't among "the most competitive" to you.

Maybe your club's ECNL prohibits HS play, but painting all of ECNL with such a broad brush is wrong. The ECNL Southeast clubs only play in the Fall. There is no club option for them in the Spring for U15-U19.

Nobody said all ECNL…you made that up in order to argue.

The original poster definitely painted a broad brush and tried to imply that high level ECNL players don't play HS. Everyone here is calling bull. I'm in SoCal and everyone plays HS ball here. Just look at all the recruiting profiles online. Its part of the marketing package. So and so played for xyz club and helped their HS team win CIF championship, blah blah. The idea that high level recruits don't play HS, at least on the girls side is silly. Not as familiar with the boys side but multiple kids quit MLSN for the sole reason of playing HS. Ban kids from their school sports at your own peril. The season is only a couple months long, seems dumb to take that stance in a competitive market where top kids have options.

This is ECNL…define “high level recruit”. D1 ain’t what it used to be.

D1 is the destination for everyone I know. Nobody is sending their daughter across the world to play soccer. Boys might be different, IDK. But high level recruit is national team members courted by top 10 schools.

The point I’m making is that there D1 is a vast landscape. Being a D1 tier recruit is not high level. There are bench warmers that are D1 level recruits.

It happens. I know of a couple of players who were among the best in their state, recruited by and were on a top-tier D1 team and rarely saw the field in college. They got a good education, at least. Except for the world's-best, everyone is humbled eventually.

Even the worlds best are humbled eventually. Pulisic is arguably the best player the US ever produced (well, kindof...took the Germans to intervene and identify the talent. He barely sniffed the field at Chelsea. Lesson for all the Q4 parents rejoicing...if you're the best player on the field, you're on the wrong field.

D1 is truly a vast landscape and from what everyone has told us, chasing top programs is fools gold. It sounds like a miserable experience and regardless of talent, not something we're interested in. Pro isn't a destination for us. Family of physicians and lawyers, we're looking at Ivy or great teaching institutions and a program that will take care of our daughter, not just on the field but all around. If you really want your kid in the power 5, ask around so you know what you're getting into. Not discounting if that's your dream but I've yet to speak with someone that loved the experience. Every year the transfer portal is loaded with young women that realize the reality of playing at those schools.

We had a younger travel coach 2 years ago who played D1 for all 4 years (He was tall and fast). Not a powerhouse D1 mind you. In the end, he told me he would have chosen D3 if he had to do it all over again. He kept in touch with his buddies who played D3 and he said their experience was a lot more fun than his. He felt like it was cut throat in D1 and he felt there was not much in the way of loyalty to the player or players to the team. (Could have just been his experience.) But in the end, he just came back to Alexandria/ Annandale to Coach travel soccer and work his day job. He did have a teammate go play pro in USL and he stopped after 2 years due to the limited ceiling, low pay and burnout. You got to enjoy the experience along the way instead of solely focusing on the destination.

I'm in tech sales and we hire college athletes on a routine basis. I've heard this story so many times I take it as fact now. Powerhouse D1 experience unless your a coddled, high profile athlete with pro prospects is akin to having a very stressful job at 18 years old. The D2/D3 athletes reflect on their experience with fondness and stay in touch with tons of teammates for life. They take away tons of useful life skills and always recommend that path. As I think about my daughters future, it'll ultimately be up to her but I'm not pushing D1 as some sort of panacea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don’t see ECNL doing as much as some people hope they will do. I could see them addressing the trapped player problem in some way for next year’s crop of 8th graders but even that’s a long shot.

I will say I’ve seen this posted everywhere but have not seen US club or ECNL post the announcement plan that came out.

ECNL has nothing to do with HS soccer…why do people keep trotting out the 8th grade issue like it’s a grand injustice.

The lower grade players on a club team still get 4 years of HS soccer if they want to play HS soccer…they just don’t get it at the same time the 9th graders on their club team are able to play HS soccer. If you’re on an NPL or classic team, sure maybe those awful but extra touches are helpful. But if you’re playing ECNL (and your ECNL club allows you to play HS soccer…which many do not) then HS soccer reps are bad reps, and the 8th grader that is making up for it by playing in club, or grinding with a trainer will be 1000x better off.

Another BY wacko that has no clue how things work. Ofcourse ECNL allows HS play, lookup the history and why everyone gravitated to ECNL in the first place. ECNL has ALOT to do with HS soccer. ENCL kids aren't playing at school to get better BTW, life isn't all about going pro for these kids. Even the phenoms want to help their HS win state championship and ball out in front of classmates from time to time.

And if you don't care about the 8th grade issue then you're just a BY leftover trying to justify why the current system isn't that bad. I'm sorry, but your January kid is now going to compete the December kid sitting right next to them in history class. Maybe that is why your kid doesn't play in HS, because it would expose how inferior they are to the Q3/Q4 kids in the SAME grade. What a broken system...

News flash, many if not most ECNL clubs do not allow their players to play HS until they’re committed to a college.

That is a patently false statement. ECNL thrived where DA didn't in large part because it allowed for HS participation. ECNL for U-15-U19 is only for one season, whereas U-13/U-14 is for the whole year. Why? Because of the direct conflict with HS soccer. Regardless of your opinion of HS soccer, ECNL clubs work closely with the High Schools in many regions. Heck, a lot of High School work at those clubs too.

You’re not correct. And it depends on the ECNL club…the most competitive (and many that want to be the most competitive) DO NOT allow it. Does “ECNL” allow for it? Yes. But that doesn’t mean clubs have to allow for it.

Tons of reasons for this. They don’t want to lose time un-coaching bad HS practices, they don’t want added work and wear on their athletes, they want to minimize injuries, they want to make sure the athlete is getting the right exposure to the schools they want to target, etc.

One of the big selling points for RL in many markets is that the kids have the time and freedom to play HS soccer if that is important to them. And I can tell you, for kids that playing HS soccer is important enough to drop to RL or play for a bottom ECNL club, is a kid that has already capped their soccer career.

I know this much. The 2024 09 Boys National Champions were SC Surf having beaten vaunted Pipeline in the final match. Every single one of them played HS ball. Facts. But perhaps that team isn't among "the most competitive" to you.

Maybe your club's ECNL prohibits HS play, but painting all of ECNL with such a broad brush is wrong. The ECNL Southeast clubs only play in the Fall. There is no club option for them in the Spring for U15-U19.

Nobody said all ECNL…you made that up in order to argue.

The original poster definitely painted a broad brush and tried to imply that high level ECNL players don't play HS. Everyone here is calling bull. I'm in SoCal and everyone plays HS ball here. Just look at all the recruiting profiles online. It’s part of the marketing package. So and so played for xyz club and helped their HS team win CIF championship, blah blah. The idea that high level recruits don't play HS, at least on the girls side is silly. Not as familiar with the boys side but multiple kids quit MLSN for the sole reason of playing HS. Ban kids from their school sports at your own peril. The season is only a couple months long, seems dumb to take that stance in a competitive market where top kids have options.

Name the teams that allow it in your market then?

Ok I will start for DMV

VDA
Arlington
Union

Do I need to go on? Every HS team in DMV is bouyed by its ECNL players. Just look at the all state teams. Hint- it’s not RL players…

These kids are playing HS ball. Period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don’t see ECNL doing as much as some people hope they will do. I could see them addressing the trapped player problem in some way for next year’s crop of 8th graders but even that’s a long shot.

I will say I’ve seen this posted everywhere but have not seen US club or ECNL post the announcement plan that came out.

ECNL has nothing to do with HS soccer…why do people keep trotting out the 8th grade issue like it’s a grand injustice.

The lower grade players on a club team still get 4 years of HS soccer if they want to play HS soccer…they just don’t get it at the same time the 9th graders on their club team are able to play HS soccer. If you’re on an NPL or classic team, sure maybe those awful but extra touches are helpful. But if you’re playing ECNL (and your ECNL club allows you to play HS soccer…which many do not) then HS soccer reps are bad reps, and the 8th grader that is making up for it by playing in club, or grinding with a trainer will be 1000x better off.

Another BY wacko that has no clue how things work. Ofcourse ECNL allows HS play, lookup the history and why everyone gravitated to ECNL in the first place. ECNL has ALOT to do with HS soccer. ENCL kids aren't playing at school to get better BTW, life isn't all about going pro for these kids. Even the phenoms want to help their HS win state championship and ball out in front of classmates from time to time.

And if you don't care about the 8th grade issue then you're just a BY leftover trying to justify why the current system isn't that bad. I'm sorry, but your January kid is now going to compete the December kid sitting right next to them in history class. Maybe that is why your kid doesn't play in HS, because it would expose how inferior they are to the Q3/Q4 kids in the SAME grade. What a broken system...

News flash, many if not most ECNL clubs do not allow their players to play HS until they’re committed to a college.

That is a patently false statement. ECNL thrived where DA didn't in large part because it allowed for HS participation. ECNL for U-15-U19 is only for one season, whereas U-13/U-14 is for the whole year. Why? Because of the direct conflict with HS soccer. Regardless of your opinion of HS soccer, ECNL clubs work closely with the High Schools in many regions. Heck, a lot of High School work at those clubs too.

You’re not correct. And it depends on the ECNL club…the most competitive (and many that want to be the most competitive) DO NOT allow it. Does “ECNL” allow for it? Yes. But that doesn’t mean clubs have to allow for it.

Tons of reasons for this. They don’t want to lose time un-coaching bad HS practices, they don’t want added work and wear on their athletes, they want to minimize injuries, they want to make sure the athlete is getting the right exposure to the schools they want to target, etc.

One of the big selling points for RL in many markets is that the kids have the time and freedom to play HS soccer if that is important to them. And I can tell you, for kids that playing HS soccer is important enough to drop to RL or play for a bottom ECNL club, is a kid that has already capped their soccer career.

I know this much. The 2024 09 Boys National Champions were SC Surf having beaten vaunted Pipeline in the final match. Every single one of them played HS ball. Facts. But perhaps that team isn't among "the most competitive" to you.

Maybe your club's ECNL prohibits HS play, but painting all of ECNL with such a broad brush is wrong. The ECNL Southeast clubs only play in the Fall. There is no club option for them in the Spring for U15-U19.

Nobody said all ECNL…you made that up in order to argue.

The original poster definitely painted a broad brush and tried to imply that high level ECNL players don't play HS. Everyone here is calling bull. I'm in SoCal and everyone plays HS ball here. Just look at all the recruiting profiles online. It’s part of the marketing package. So and so played for xyz club and helped their HS team win CIF championship, blah blah. The idea that high level recruits don't play HS, at least on the girls side is silly. Not as familiar with the boys side but multiple kids quit MLSN for the sole reason of playing HS. Ban kids from their school sports at your own peril. The season is only a couple months long, seems dumb to take that stance in a competitive market where top kids have options.

Name the teams that allow it in your market then?

Ok I will start for DMV

VDA
Arlington
Union

Do I need to go on? Every HS team in DMV is bouyed by its ECNL players. Just look at the all state teams. Hint- it’s not RL players…

These kids are playing HS ball. Period.

Same thing up 95 in the North-Atlantic division. Every single club allows HS play.

[Anonymous]

Will each ECNL and ECRL be allowed to pick their own cutoff date or do you expect one mandated cutoff date across the league?

[Anonymous]

I think they have to keep the illusion of mobility alive so they will keep the date the same been NL and RL.

[Anonymous]

That’s what I was thinking too. Do you agree it will likely be one cutoff throughout the entire league rather than states matching up to their school cutoffs? ie. California teams being 9/1, Nebraska teams being 7/31, Connecticut teams being 1/1, etc

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That’s what I was thinking too. Do you agree it will likely be one cutoff throughout the entire league rather than states matching up to their school cutoffs? ie. California teams being 9/1, Nebraska teams being 7/31, Connecticut teams being 1/1, etc

The date for Connecticut was interesting so I googled. Starting in the 24-25 school year they are changing their date for school to 9/1 to align with the rest of the country.

[Anonymous]

Good catch. I think New York and other New England districts are 1/1 so the example still stands.

Do you think ECNL/ECRL will pick one calendar date rather than having a league that could end up being a 18 months - like 7/01/2011 to 12/31/2012 (assuming the 1/1 cutoffs play “up”)

[Anonymous]

I wonder if they have access to school registration data where someone could analyze if they selected 9/1 how many people would be mismatched with their grade vs 8/1 vs 1/1. I suspect 9/1 would have the least. I don't see how an 18 month window would work unless it was you fall in this age range AND are in this grade to qualify for that age band.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if they have access to school registration data where someone could analyze if they selected 9/1 how many people would be mismatched with their grade vs 8/1 vs 1/1. I suspect 9/1 would have the least. I don't see how an 18 month window would work unless it was you fall in this age range AND are in this grade to qualify for that age band.

They do. And someone talked about it maybe 50 pages ago. The national leagues will likely pick one dates/window that will apply to all teams in their league. Otherwise, it would open the door to individual clubs trying to bend the rules, or allow states with different cut-offs to have a perceived advantage or disadvantage.

[Anonymous]

For what it's worth, the clubs in our area are split on going to school year. I imagine everyone looked at their roster and made the best decisions for their clubs. I don't see how clubs that don't adjust their rosters will not take a hit quality wise.

[Anonymous]

How do you think Athena 1 will choose their age cutoff? Will they follow the national leagues from US Club soccer?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For what it's worth, the clubs in our area are split on going to school year. I imagine everyone looked at their roster and made the best decisions for their clubs. I don't see how clubs that don't adjust their rosters will not take a hit quality wise.

It all depends on the leagues they play in. If their league doesn't change, maybe players not happy with the SY changes, flip to them. Each side will say theirs is better/best, of course. May solve RAE that way eventually.

Or, maybe all club should switch and USSF needs a BY program for its needs. Maybe breathe new life into ODP?

[Anonymous]

On the other hand, I had a lot of friends go play D2 and D3 sports who did not play all four years. The amount of work required to play is often not worth it when your friends are having tons of fun doing all the other college things and you’re not actually good enough to play at the next level. They all quit to be normal college students and study for what they’d actually be doing for the rest of their lives. My husband and I were both decent high school athletes (who could have played at some small school) and we really enjoyed being on those HS teams. We hope our kids can do the same. If they happen to be amazing and love it, we’d support it, but being a college athlete is NOT the goal.