s/o 'Moderate Muslims' , another Huffington post blog piece

[Anonymous]

I'm starting another thread b/c I saw this post and want to discuss it:

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_575c1dabe4b0b6c49600c87b

I'm an Ahmadi Muslim like the author and we are considered apostates and traitors in all Muslim countries b/c we have challenged so much of the intolerance and violence which afflicts Muslim societies. Mainstream Muslims get very angry that we call ourselves Muslims even though we practice Sunni Islam for the most part but b/c when there is choice (which there often is) of a classical arabic word meaning two things, we pick the less violent one, for this we are called 'western agents'. Islam is still a Semitic, Abrahamic faith- homosexuality is frowned upon etc etc. . and there is no refusing that BUT there is more in The Holy Quran about about being compassionate and tolerant and not judging others nor is there a hierarchy of sins- backbiting is just as much a sin as is sodomy- sin is defying Allah and as He reminds us, Allah is the Master of the day of Judgement so we don't have the right to judge others because they have different moral struggles than we do nor can we impose our own morality on others. This is a central tenant of Islam and always has been according to Ahmadis, I cannot speak for more orthodox Muslims since in my experience they are incredibly intolerant to calls for self reflection.

Ali Rizvi was right- the world doesn't need lukewarm followers of Islam, Muslims must actively live their faith in a productive peaceful manner to counter the narrative of violence and terror. Just saying Islam is peaceful is meaningless unless you are actively using Islamic principles and teachings to make the world a better more peaceful place.

[Anonymous]

I've always been interested in the Ahmadis. Are the Ahmadi sect related to Sufis?

Thanks for sharing your views with us!

[Anonymous]

Thanks

We are and we aren't. . theologically we trend more sufi but in the way that Ahmadi Islam is practiced it is very close to orthodox Hanifi school Sunni Islam, most women wear hijab, we practice the 5 pillars etc.. Our translations of the arabic in the Holy Quran are very different from the traditional Suadi/wahabi translations. The thing is if you approach a text being mysogonistic or hateful/violent then that is how you are going to view the language.
Like the verse about cutting off at the neck- its actually brilliant strategy- it doesn't mean behead people, it means that you go at the root of the problem and finish it, strike at the heart of the hydra, not at its multiplying heads. I mean how is advice on beheading people helpful to a software developer or baker? but all of the Holy Quran is advice for all people for all-time so it has to be applied metaphorically. We believe that the applications of the verses change as the world we live in changes. We are thankfully not living in the premodern era, human civilization has come a long way since then and we should embrace that development and not try to go back to a past where no-one had access to modern medicine and education.

of course orthodox sunnis don't like this at all because then they can't blame the evil west and colonization for all of our problems and can just wallow in anger and nostalgia (wow- they sound like trump supporters) but actually have to face the problems of building a healthy society dealing with the forces of modern technology and globalization.

[Anonymous]

What you are talking about sounds very much like Islam practiced in Egypt until the heavy Salafi influence over the past 20 years. Egypt is also influenced by sufi thought. Salafism is taking over because people are poor and demoralized. Part of the solution here is to economically empower Muslims in predominantly Muslim countries.

[Anonymous]

I'm the PP who gave the first reply to this thread. I'll reply in-line

Anonymous wrote:Thanks

We are and we aren't. . theologically we trend more sufi but in the way that Ahmadi Islam is practiced it is very close to orthodox Hanifi school Sunni Islam, most women wear hijab, we practice the 5 pillars etc.. Our translations of the arabic in the Holy Quran are very different from the traditional Suadi/wahabi translations.

Very interesting, thanks for explaining. I didn't know about those theological distinctions. I'm mostly very attracted to the Sufi practices of devotional love, the idea of being intoxicated with love for the Divine Beloved. And of course, Rumi is a big source of inspiration for me.

The thing is if you approach a text being mysogonistic or hateful/violent then that is how you are going to view the language.

+1

Like the verse about cutting off at the neck- its actually brilliant strategy- it doesn't mean behead people, it means that you go at the root of the problem and finish it, strike at the heart of the hydra, not at its multiplying heads.

Oh, I 100000% agree. And it's the same thing in Hinduism (I'm Hindu). We have a tantric Goddess, Chinnamasta, who beheads herself and lets fountains of blood spurt from her neck and into the waiting mouths of her daughters. She is God and her self-decapitation is an act of supreme love, mercy and self-sacrifice - for the spiritual seeker, her self-decapitation is meant to show death of the ego, death of illusion, etc. I would be very interested in reading an Ahmadi version of the Quran because it's exactly this kind of spiritual interpretation that I would love to read. Can you recommend an English version of the Ahmadi Quran?

We believe that the applications of the verses change as the world we live in changes. We are thankfully not living in the premodern era, human civilization has come a long way since then and we should embrace that development and not try to go back to a past where no-one had access to modern medicine and education.

Yes, and it's not a trouble unique to the Quran either. Hindu and Christian and Jewish scriptures all have some seriously misogynistic, disturbing stuff, but we try to apply those scriptures to the modern era. So it's not fair that the Quran should be singled out for its period-era writing - all religions have that problem.

of course orthodox sunnis don't like this at all because then they can't blame the evil west and colonization for all of our problems and can just wallow in anger and nostalgia (wow- they sound like trump supporters) but actually have to face the problems of building a healthy society dealing with the forces of modern technology and globalization.

This is why I actually consider Wahhabis to be real "moderate Muslims", because their way of life and thinking is not based on Islam so much as it's based on culture and politics. They're VERY against actual Islamic mysticism and for me, personally, mysticism is the true extreme level of religious engagement. You can correct me if you disagree with me. They're exactly like the fundamentalist Tea Party Christians who, in my opinion, aren't actually interested in engaging with Christ and surrendering to the Holy Spirit, they're just interested in preserving an Anglo-Saxon Protestant culture and way of life.

I'm rambling now but basically I agree with you that in order to counteract the crazy fanatics AND the reactionary Islamophobes, it's really important to demonstrate committed Islamic practices in a peaceful way, not try to be "lukewarm". I would actually really love to see a lot more Sufi Islamic outreach and visibility, personally. I'm pretty sure that reminding the world that Islam gave us Rumi would be really useful.

And personally speaking, I also want to smash the distinctions between "liberal religious practitioner" and "orthodox religious practitioner" because liberal again has connotations of being lukewarm. I'm very politically and socially liberal, but I'm also a committed and somewhat crazy Hindu mystic who goes into ecstatic trance and becomes intoxicated by God, so there's nothing lukewarm about my religious life whatsoever. We need to let the world see that there are Muslims like that too.

[Anonymous]

"Bad Muslim" is another Huff Po blog I really found insightful.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/melody-moezzi/bad-muslim_b_8682806.html