ECNL moving to school year not calendar

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don’t see ECNL doing as much as some people hope they will do. I could see them addressing the trapped player problem in some way for next year’s crop of 8th graders but even that’s a long shot.

I will say I’ve seen this posted everywhere but have not seen US club or ECNL post the announcement plan that came out.

ECNL has nothing to do with HS soccer…why do people keep trotting out the 8th grade issue like it’s a grand injustice.

The lower grade players on a club team still get 4 years of HS soccer if they want to play HS soccer…they just don’t get it at the same time the 9th graders on their club team are able to play HS soccer. If you’re on an NPL or classic team, sure maybe those awful but extra touches are helpful. But if you’re playing ECNL (and your ECNL club allows you to play HS soccer…which many do not) then HS soccer reps are bad reps, and the 8th grader that is making up for it by playing in club, or grinding with a trainer will be 1000x better off.

Another BY wacko that has no clue how things work. Ofcourse ECNL allows HS play, lookup the history and why everyone gravitated to ECNL in the first place. ECNL has ALOT to do with HS soccer. ENCL kids aren't playing at school to get better BTW, life isn't all about going pro for these kids. Even the phenoms want to help their HS win state championship and ball out in front of classmates from time to time.

And if you don't care about the 8th grade issue then you're just a BY leftover trying to justify why the current system isn't that bad. I'm sorry, but your January kid is now going to compete the December kid sitting right next to them in history class. Maybe that is why your kid doesn't play in HS, because it would expose how inferior they are to the Q3/Q4 kids in the SAME grade. What a broken system...

Lack of knowledge about highly competitive ECNL clubs and what is expected from these HS age players is very apparent in this response.

My guess is that poster either has a young kid, or an axe to grind because their little-Mbappe didn’t make an ECNL or GA team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don’t see ECNL doing as much as some people hope they will do. I could see them addressing the trapped player problem in some way for next year’s crop of 8th graders but even that’s a long shot.

I will say I’ve seen this posted everywhere but have not seen US club or ECNL post the announcement plan that came out.

ECNL has nothing to do with HS soccer…why do people keep trotting out the 8th grade issue like it’s a grand injustice.

The lower grade players on a club team still get 4 years of HS soccer if they want to play HS soccer…they just don’t get it at the same time the 9th graders on their club team are able to play HS soccer. If you’re on an NPL or classic team, sure maybe those awful but extra touches are helpful. But if you’re playing ECNL (and your ECNL club allows you to play HS soccer…which many do not) then HS soccer reps are bad reps, and the 8th grader that is making up for it by playing in club, or grinding with a trainer will be 1000x better off.

Another BY wacko that has no clue how things work. Ofcourse ECNL allows HS play, lookup the history and why everyone gravitated to ECNL in the first place. ECNL has ALOT to do with HS soccer. ENCL kids aren't playing at school to get better BTW, life isn't all about going pro for these kids. Even the phenoms want to help their HS win state championship and ball out in front of classmates from time to time.

And if you don't care about the 8th grade issue then you're just a BY leftover trying to justify why the current system isn't that bad. I'm sorry, but your January kid is now going to compete the December kid sitting right next to them in history class. Maybe that is why your kid doesn't play in HS, because it would expose how inferior they are to the Q3/Q4 kids in the SAME grade. What a broken system...

Beyond dumb take. Also fairly repugnant vicarious joy in their own framing of punching down…

Do you really think that parents of January players think of their kids as punching down like it seems you’re looking forward to for your Q3/Q4 kid?

A lot of projection going on with you I think.

Stop with the BY self loathing. It's not punching down. For the 1000'th time, your kid is sitting right next to another kid. They are in the same grade. They are graduating at the same time. They are competing for the same scholarship. How is it punching down to have them play together. Get your head out of the broken system. I know you're holding on tight. Im sorry you're losing an artificial advantage. But to call it punching down is ridiculous. I'm so happy my kid gets to play with classmates now. They've been 'punching up' for years. There's no RAE advantage to have a Dec and Jan kid on the same team. So why is my kid so much better than yours?? You're about to find out.

You’ve got serious issues. 😂

I’m glad you’re proud of your kiddo. It just seems like you’re thinking this change does something for you personally. And you absolutely seem to be reveling in your child not having to “play up” (in the BY cutoff system). Pretty damning for what seems like a hyper competitive personality.

lol. Yep, I'm the only competitive parent on this thread. I'm the only competitive parent on the sidelines and Im a bad guy because I'm looking for advantages for my kid to excel in this wild pay for play world which resembles the hunger games every tryout season. Gimme a break...wake up man.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don’t see ECNL doing as much as some people hope they will do. I could see them addressing the trapped player problem in some way for next year’s crop of 8th graders but even that’s a long shot.

I will say I’ve seen this posted everywhere but have not seen US club or ECNL post the announcement plan that came out.

ECNL has nothing to do with HS soccer…why do people keep trotting out the 8th grade issue like it’s a grand injustice.

The lower grade players on a club team still get 4 years of HS soccer if they want to play HS soccer…they just don’t get it at the same time the 9th graders on their club team are able to play HS soccer. If you’re on an NPL or classic team, sure maybe those awful but extra touches are helpful. But if you’re playing ECNL (and your ECNL club allows you to play HS soccer…which many do not) then HS soccer reps are bad reps, and the 8th grader that is making up for it by playing in club, or grinding with a trainer will be 1000x better off.

Another BY wacko that has no clue how things work. Ofcourse ECNL allows HS play, lookup the history and why everyone gravitated to ECNL in the first place. ECNL has ALOT to do with HS soccer. ENCL kids aren't playing at school to get better BTW, life isn't all about going pro for these kids. Even the phenoms want to help their HS win state championship and ball out in front of classmates from time to time.

And if you don't care about the 8th grade issue then you're just a BY leftover trying to justify why the current system isn't that bad. I'm sorry, but your January kid is now going to compete the December kid sitting right next to them in history class. Maybe that is why your kid doesn't play in HS, because it would expose how inferior they are to the Q3/Q4 kids in the SAME grade. What a broken system...

Beyond dumb take. Also fairly repugnant vicarious joy in their own framing of punching down…

Do you really think that parents of January players think of their kids as punching down like it seems you’re looking forward to for your Q3/Q4 kid?

A lot of projection going on with you I think.

Stop with the BY self loathing. It's not punching down. For the 1000'th time, your kid is sitting right next to another kid. They are in the same grade. They are graduating at the same time. They are competing for the same scholarship. How is it punching down to have them play together. Get your head out of the broken system. I know you're holding on tight. Im sorry you're losing an artificial advantage. But to call it punching down is ridiculous. I'm so happy my kid gets to play with classmates now. They've been 'punching up' for years. There's no RAE advantage to have a Dec and Jan kid on the same team. So why is my kid so much better than yours?? You're about to find out.

No PP, but to answer your question: Your kid likely has more experience (maybe at least a year, depending on when they started) AND perhaps more experience on bigger fields (depends on what age they are at). Right now, that edge only helps in 9th grade. If/when the switch happens, it'll be an edge for that season and the older they are, the less of an edge, really. As for the Jan kid, they're more than likely welcome a more experienced player onto their team. Younger players want to play up as much as possible. It helps them get better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don’t see ECNL doing as much as some people hope they will do. I could see them addressing the trapped player problem in some way for next year’s crop of 8th graders but even that’s a long shot.

I will say I’ve seen this posted everywhere but have not seen US club or ECNL post the announcement plan that came out.

ECNL has nothing to do with HS soccer…why do people keep trotting out the 8th grade issue like it’s a grand injustice.

The lower grade players on a club team still get 4 years of HS soccer if they want to play HS soccer…they just don’t get it at the same time the 9th graders on their club team are able to play HS soccer. If you’re on an NPL or classic team, sure maybe those awful but extra touches are helpful. But if you’re playing ECNL (and your ECNL club allows you to play HS soccer…which many do not) then HS soccer reps are bad reps, and the 8th grader that is making up for it by playing in club, or grinding with a trainer will be 1000x better off.

Right, it's like the tail is wagging the dog. One of the top leagues forcing a change to the entire system just to better match the college recruiting cycle AND for a 1-time shake-up where a more savvy club might gain an edge for a year or 2.

Forced? Majority in survey wanted school year. You are discounting school year push from rec soccer and young entry level travel where the bulk of the teams are.

I am not blaming or giving ECNL credit for tossing out birth year. I am blaming USSF of such a ham handed way of going to birth year 7 years ago and ignoring the landscape of the entry into organized soccer for the youngest of kids. It just needed/needs to be fixed. And finally the entire landscape of youth soccer needs to do something about relative age effect.

USSF making decisions for youth soccer is like MLB telling your town how to run their T ball league for 4 year olds and collecting fees. It was always just a power trip and cash grab.

Plurality…not majority. And it’s unclear what the 12% wanted. It could very easily be 53-47…nobody knows. But it wasn’t a majority.

But agree on how poorly USSF addressed this 7 years ago, and how poorly they’re addressing it now. It’s like they just are giving up and saying “can’t make everyone happy, just let people do whatever they want.” Which to me means the results in our YNT and NYs that have been getting better and better over the past 15 years is going to start eroding in a few years because USSF is taking their hands off the wheel.

You don’t have to like the route they took, but it’s important to have a driver…

Will be interesting to see if different leagues having different cutoffs will reduce RAE and along with increased soccer participation will increase the pool of players and make the national teams better. Or if it really does come down to needing high pay for MLS/NWSL to make a difference. Nobody knows the true impact until a few years out from an youth age cuttoff switch but many AM sports radio type folks will be confident in their opinions.

There's no opinions. This has been a classic A/B test. We had a system before. We have a system now. The effects have been clear and the answers are simple. Having trapped kids should have been foreseen and is bad for youth soccer in a myriad of ways. Whatever international bump we were hoping for didn't happen. Recruiting for college is now a mess. Enrollment is down. On and on and on. BY was a stupid idea and its getting fixed. RAE exists no matter what you do, so stop trying to address it. Just pick the bday cutoff that aligns best with our HS and College system, let the best kids shake out for the national team. Not hard.

Agree with a lot of what you’re saying. Definitely an A/B test. But the results aren’t clear. YNT and NT clearly improved. Finally got solid coaching for the top of the NT pyramids. Enrollment is up the past 2 years, but largely peaked in 2010 before BY switch and any data before 2000 is worthless. College system is a mess, not because of USSF. Etc etc. to USSF basically is throwing up their hands and saying “on this we quit.”

Fair points. I guess the question is, what is the goal? If its getting on par with the international community it'll take MUCH more than switching enrollment dates. Have you ever been to a European community. Soccer is EVERYWHERE, on every street corner. We are generations away from achieving soccer excellence. Our goals in the US are all over the place. I believe we should be doing what we can to feed the college system with the best players and destroying pay to play as quickly as possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don’t see ECNL doing as much as some people hope they will do. I could see them addressing the trapped player problem in some way for next year’s crop of 8th graders but even that’s a long shot.

I will say I’ve seen this posted everywhere but have not seen US club or ECNL post the announcement plan that came out.

ECNL has nothing to do with HS soccer…why do people keep trotting out the 8th grade issue like it’s a grand injustice.

The lower grade players on a club team still get 4 years of HS soccer if they want to play HS soccer…they just don’t get it at the same time the 9th graders on their club team are able to play HS soccer. If you’re on an NPL or classic team, sure maybe those awful but extra touches are helpful. But if you’re playing ECNL (and your ECNL club allows you to play HS soccer…which many do not) then HS soccer reps are bad reps, and the 8th grader that is making up for it by playing in club, or grinding with a trainer will be 1000x better off.

Right, it's like the tail is wagging the dog. One of the top leagues forcing a change to the entire system just to better match the college recruiting cycle AND for a 1-time shake-up where a more savvy club might gain an edge for a year or 2.

Forced? Majority in survey wanted school year. You are discounting school year push from rec soccer and young entry level travel where the bulk of the teams are.

I am not blaming or giving ECNL credit for tossing out birth year. I am blaming USSF of such a ham handed way of going to birth year 7 years ago and ignoring the landscape of the entry into organized soccer for the youngest of kids. It just needed/needs to be fixed. And finally the entire landscape of youth soccer needs to do something about relative age effect.

USSF making decisions for youth soccer is like MLB telling your town how to run their T ball league for 4 year olds and collecting fees. It was always just a power trip and cash grab.

Plurality…not majority. And it’s unclear what the 12% wanted. It could very easily be 53-47…nobody knows. But it wasn’t a majority.

But agree on how poorly USSF addressed this 7 years ago, and how poorly they’re addressing it now. It’s like they just are giving up and saying “can’t make everyone happy, just let people do whatever they want.” Which to me means the results in our YNT and NYs that have been getting better and better over the past 15 years is going to start eroding in a few years because USSF is taking their hands off the wheel.

You don’t have to like the route they took, but it’s important to have a driver…

Will be interesting to see if different leagues having different cutoffs will reduce RAE and along with increased soccer participation will increase the pool of players and make the national teams better. Or if it really does come down to needing high pay for MLS/NWSL to make a difference. Nobody knows the true impact until a few years out from an youth age cuttoff switch but many AM sports radio type folks will be confident in their opinions.

There's no opinions. This has been a classic A/B test. We had a system before. We have a system now. The effects have been clear and the answers are simple. Having trapped kids should have been foreseen and is bad for youth soccer in a myriad of ways. Whatever international bump we were hoping for didn't happen. Recruiting for college is now a mess. Enrollment is down. On and on and on. BY was a stupid idea and its getting fixed. RAE exists no matter what you do, so stop trying to address it. Just pick the bday cutoff that aligns best with our HS and College system, let the best kids shake out for the national team. Not hard.

The comment you were responding to was solely about future performances of national teams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don’t see ECNL doing as much as some people hope they will do. I could see them addressing the trapped player problem in some way for next year’s crop of 8th graders but even that’s a long shot.

I will say I’ve seen this posted everywhere but have not seen US club or ECNL post the announcement plan that came out.

ECNL has nothing to do with HS soccer…why do people keep trotting out the 8th grade issue like it’s a grand injustice.

The lower grade players on a club team still get 4 years of HS soccer if they want to play HS soccer…they just don’t get it at the same time the 9th graders on their club team are able to play HS soccer. If you’re on an NPL or classic team, sure maybe those awful but extra touches are helpful. But if you’re playing ECNL (and your ECNL club allows you to play HS soccer…which many do not) then HS soccer reps are bad reps, and the 8th grader that is making up for it by playing in club, or grinding with a trainer will be 1000x better off.

Another BY wacko that has no clue how things work. Ofcourse ECNL allows HS play, lookup the history and why everyone gravitated to ECNL in the first place. ECNL has ALOT to do with HS soccer. ENCL kids aren't playing at school to get better BTW, life isn't all about going pro for these kids. Even the phenoms want to help their HS win state championship and ball out in front of classmates from time to time.

And if you don't care about the 8th grade issue then you're just a BY leftover trying to justify why the current system isn't that bad. I'm sorry, but your January kid is now going to compete the December kid sitting right next to them in history class. Maybe that is why your kid doesn't play in HS, because it would expose how inferior they are to the Q3/Q4 kids in the SAME grade. What a broken system...

Beyond dumb take. Also fairly repugnant vicarious joy in their own framing of punching down…

Do you really think that parents of January players think of their kids as punching down like it seems you’re looking forward to for your Q3/Q4 kid?

A lot of projection going on with you I think.

Stop with the BY self loathing. It's not punching down. For the 1000'th time, your kid is sitting right next to another kid. They are in the same grade. They are graduating at the same time. They are competing for the same scholarship. How is it punching down to have them play together. Get your head out of the broken system. I know you're holding on tight. Im sorry you're losing an artificial advantage. But to call it punching down is ridiculous. I'm so happy my kid gets to play with classmates now. They've been 'punching up' for years. There's no RAE advantage to have a Dec and Jan kid on the same team. So why is my kid so much better than yours?? You're about to find out.

No PP, but to answer your question: Your kid likely has more experience (maybe at least a year, depending on when they started) AND perhaps more experience on bigger fields (depends on what age they are at). Right now, that edge only helps in 9th grade. If/when the switch happens, it'll be an edge for that season and the older they are, the less of an edge, really. As for the Jan kid, they're more than likely welcome a more experienced player onto their team. Younger players want to play up as much as possible. It helps them get better.

This is the misconception. Why are there so few Q4 kids at the higher levels? Its not one season. Its not that every older kid in 8th grade is worse than their younger counterparts. Really sit with that question. It makes no sense. The answer is over years of being the youngest kid and other challenges of being trapped, kids drop out. LONG before this magical age you speak of where birthdays don't matter anymore and it all comes down to skill. It isn't just one season.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don’t see ECNL doing as much as some people hope they will do. I could see them addressing the trapped player problem in some way for next year’s crop of 8th graders but even that’s a long shot.

I will say I’ve seen this posted everywhere but have not seen US club or ECNL post the announcement plan that came out.

ECNL has nothing to do with HS soccer…why do people keep trotting out the 8th grade issue like it’s a grand injustice.

The lower grade players on a club team still get 4 years of HS soccer if they want to play HS soccer…they just don’t get it at the same time the 9th graders on their club team are able to play HS soccer. If you’re on an NPL or classic team, sure maybe those awful but extra touches are helpful. But if you’re playing ECNL (and your ECNL club allows you to play HS soccer…which many do not) then HS soccer reps are bad reps, and the 8th grader that is making up for it by playing in club, or grinding with a trainer will be 1000x better off.

Another BY wacko that has no clue how things work. Ofcourse ECNL allows HS play, lookup the history and why everyone gravitated to ECNL in the first place. ECNL has ALOT to do with HS soccer. ENCL kids aren't playing at school to get better BTW, life isn't all about going pro for these kids. Even the phenoms want to help their HS win state championship and ball out in front of classmates from time to time.

And if you don't care about the 8th grade issue then you're just a BY leftover trying to justify why the current system isn't that bad. I'm sorry, but your January kid is now going to compete the December kid sitting right next to them in history class. Maybe that is why your kid doesn't play in HS, because it would expose how inferior they are to the Q3/Q4 kids in the SAME grade. What a broken system...

Beyond dumb take. Also fairly repugnant vicarious joy in their own framing of punching down…

Do you really think that parents of January players think of their kids as punching down like it seems you’re looking forward to for your Q3/Q4 kid?

A lot of projection going on with you I think.

Stop with the BY self loathing. It's not punching down. For the 1000'th time, your kid is sitting right next to another kid. They are in the same grade. They are graduating at the same time. They are competing for the same scholarship. How is it punching down to have them play together. Get your head out of the broken system. I know you're holding on tight. Im sorry you're losing an artificial advantage. But to call it punching down is ridiculous. I'm so happy my kid gets to play with classmates now. They've been 'punching up' for years. There's no RAE advantage to have a Dec and Jan kid on the same team. So why is my kid so much better than yours?? You're about to find out.

No PP, but to answer your question: Your kid likely has more experience (maybe at least a year, depending on when they started) AND perhaps more experience on bigger fields (depends on what age they are at). Right now, that edge only helps in 9th grade. If/when the switch happens, it'll be an edge for that season and the older they are, the less of an edge, really. As for the Jan kid, they're more than likely welcome a more experienced player onto their team. Younger players want to play up as much as possible. It helps them get better.

This is the misconception. Why are there so few Q4 kids at the higher levels? Its not one season. Its not that every older kid in 8th grade is worse than their younger counterparts. Really sit with that question. It makes no sense. The answer is over years of being the youngest kid and other challenges of being trapped, kids drop out. LONG before this magical age you speak of where birthdays don't matter anymore and it all comes down to skill. It isn't just one season.

Except NOW that it's changing, asking those Q4 survivors to play on a less experienced team really takes the cake. Dress it up as victory all you want BUT it's just the club likely literally handing your kid another setback so they can have a stronger team during this transition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don’t see ECNL doing as much as some people hope they will do. I could see them addressing the trapped player problem in some way for next year’s crop of 8th graders but even that’s a long shot.

I will say I’ve seen this posted everywhere but have not seen US club or ECNL post the announcement plan that came out.

ECNL has nothing to do with HS soccer…why do people keep trotting out the 8th grade issue like it’s a grand injustice.

The lower grade players on a club team still get 4 years of HS soccer if they want to play HS soccer…they just don’t get it at the same time the 9th graders on their club team are able to play HS soccer. If you’re on an NPL or classic team, sure maybe those awful but extra touches are helpful. But if you’re playing ECNL (and your ECNL club allows you to play HS soccer…which many do not) then HS soccer reps are bad reps, and the 8th grader that is making up for it by playing in club, or grinding with a trainer will be 1000x better off.

Another BY wacko that has no clue how things work. Ofcourse ECNL allows HS play, lookup the history and why everyone gravitated to ECNL in the first place. ECNL has ALOT to do with HS soccer. ENCL kids aren't playing at school to get better BTW, life isn't all about going pro for these kids. Even the phenoms want to help their HS win state championship and ball out in front of classmates from time to time.

And if you don't care about the 8th grade issue then you're just a BY leftover trying to justify why the current system isn't that bad. I'm sorry, but your January kid is now going to compete the December kid sitting right next to them in history class. Maybe that is why your kid doesn't play in HS, because it would expose how inferior they are to the Q3/Q4 kids in the SAME grade. What a broken system...

Beyond dumb take. Also fairly repugnant vicarious joy in their own framing of punching down…

Do you really think that parents of January players think of their kids as punching down like it seems you’re looking forward to for your Q3/Q4 kid?

A lot of projection going on with you I think.

Stop with the BY self loathing. It's not punching down. For the 1000'th time, your kid is sitting right next to another kid. They are in the same grade. They are graduating at the same time. They are competing for the same scholarship. How is it punching down to have them play together. Get your head out of the broken system. I know you're holding on tight. Im sorry you're losing an artificial advantage. But to call it punching down is ridiculous. I'm so happy my kid gets to play with classmates now. They've been 'punching up' for years. There's no RAE advantage to have a Dec and Jan kid on the same team. So why is my kid so much better than yours?? You're about to find out.

No PP, but to answer your question: Your kid likely has more experience (maybe at least a year, depending on when they started) AND perhaps more experience on bigger fields (depends on what age they are at). Right now, that edge only helps in 9th grade. If/when the switch happens, it'll be an edge for that season and the older they are, the less of an edge, really. As for the Jan kid, they're more than likely welcome a more experienced player onto their team. Younger players want to play up as much as possible. It helps them get better.

So parents are playing billions a year for youth soccer. Considering transfer solidarity payments are less than peanuts, where would the money come from if pay to play was gone?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don’t see ECNL doing as much as some people hope they will do. I could see them addressing the trapped player problem in some way for next year’s crop of 8th graders but even that’s a long shot.

I will say I’ve seen this posted everywhere but have not seen US club or ECNL post the announcement plan that came out.

ECNL has nothing to do with HS soccer…why do people keep trotting out the 8th grade issue like it’s a grand injustice.

The lower grade players on a club team still get 4 years of HS soccer if they want to play HS soccer…they just don’t get it at the same time the 9th graders on their club team are able to play HS soccer. If you’re on an NPL or classic team, sure maybe those awful but extra touches are helpful. But if you’re playing ECNL (and your ECNL club allows you to play HS soccer…which many do not) then HS soccer reps are bad reps, and the 8th grader that is making up for it by playing in club, or grinding with a trainer will be 1000x better off.

Another BY wacko that has no clue how things work. Ofcourse ECNL allows HS play, lookup the history and why everyone gravitated to ECNL in the first place. ECNL has ALOT to do with HS soccer. ENCL kids aren't playing at school to get better BTW, life isn't all about going pro for these kids. Even the phenoms want to help their HS win state championship and ball out in front of classmates from time to time.

And if you don't care about the 8th grade issue then you're just a BY leftover trying to justify why the current system isn't that bad. I'm sorry, but your January kid is now going to compete the December kid sitting right next to them in history class. Maybe that is why your kid doesn't play in HS, because it would expose how inferior they are to the Q3/Q4 kids in the SAME grade. What a broken system...

Beyond dumb take. Also fairly repugnant vicarious joy in their own framing of punching down…

Do you really think that parents of January players think of their kids as punching down like it seems you’re looking forward to for your Q3/Q4 kid?

A lot of projection going on with you I think.

Stop with the BY self loathing. It's not punching down. For the 1000'th time, your kid is sitting right next to another kid. They are in the same grade. They are graduating at the same time. They are competing for the same scholarship. How is it punching down to have them play together. Get your head out of the broken system. I know you're holding on tight. Im sorry you're losing an artificial advantage. But to call it punching down is ridiculous. I'm so happy my kid gets to play with classmates now. They've been 'punching up' for years. There's no RAE advantage to have a Dec and Jan kid on the same team. So why is my kid so much better than yours?? You're about to find out.

No PP, but to answer your question: Your kid likely has more experience (maybe at least a year, depending on when they started) AND perhaps more experience on bigger fields (depends on what age they are at). Right now, that edge only helps in 9th grade. If/when the switch happens, it'll be an edge for that season and the older they are, the less of an edge, really. As for the Jan kid, they're more than likely welcome a more experienced player onto their team. Younger players want to play up as much as possible. It helps them get better.

So parents are playing billions a year for youth soccer. Considering transfer solidarity payments are less than peanuts, where would the money come from if pay to play was gone?

Sorry, I wasn't debating pay-to-play. If anything, programs are needed to give those who can't afford it more of an opportunity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don’t see ECNL doing as much as some people hope they will do. I could see them addressing the trapped player problem in some way for next year’s crop of 8th graders but even that’s a long shot.

I will say I’ve seen this posted everywhere but have not seen US club or ECNL post the announcement plan that came out.

ECNL has nothing to do with HS soccer…why do people keep trotting out the 8th grade issue like it’s a grand injustice.

The lower grade players on a club team still get 4 years of HS soccer if they want to play HS soccer…they just don’t get it at the same time the 9th graders on their club team are able to play HS soccer. If you’re on an NPL or classic team, sure maybe those awful but extra touches are helpful. But if you’re playing ECNL (and your ECNL club allows you to play HS soccer…which many do not) then HS soccer reps are bad reps, and the 8th grader that is making up for it by playing in club, or grinding with a trainer will be 1000x better off.

Right, it's like the tail is wagging the dog. One of the top leagues forcing a change to the entire system just to better match the college recruiting cycle AND for a 1-time shake-up where a more savvy club might gain an edge for a year or 2.

Forced? Majority in survey wanted school year. You are discounting school year push from rec soccer and young entry level travel where the bulk of the teams are.

I am not blaming or giving ECNL credit for tossing out birth year. I am blaming USSF of such a ham handed way of going to birth year 7 years ago and ignoring the landscape of the entry into organized soccer for the youngest of kids. It just needed/needs to be fixed. And finally the entire landscape of youth soccer needs to do something about relative age effect.

USSF making decisions for youth soccer is like MLB telling your town how to run their T ball league for 4 year olds and collecting fees. It was always just a power trip and cash grab.

Plurality…not majority. And it’s unclear what the 12% wanted. It could very easily be 53-47…nobody knows. But it wasn’t a majority.

But agree on how poorly USSF addressed this 7 years ago, and how poorly they’re addressing it now. It’s like they just are giving up and saying “can’t make everyone happy, just let people do whatever they want.” Which to me means the results in our YNT and NYs that have been getting better and better over the past 15 years is going to start eroding in a few years because USSF is taking their hands off the wheel.

You don’t have to like the route they took, but it’s important to have a driver…

Will be interesting to see if different leagues having different cutoffs will reduce RAE and along with increased soccer participation will increase the pool of players and make the national teams better. Or if it really does come down to needing high pay for MLS/NWSL to make a difference. Nobody knows the true impact until a few years out from an youth age cuttoff switch but many AM sports radio type folks will be confident in their opinions.

There's no opinions. This has been a classic A/B test. We had a system before. We have a system now. The effects have been clear and the answers are simple. Having trapped kids should have been foreseen and is bad for youth soccer in a myriad of ways. Whatever international bump we were hoping for didn't happen. Recruiting for college is now a mess. Enrollment is down. On and on and on. BY was a stupid idea and its getting fixed. RAE exists no matter what you do, so stop trying to address it. Just pick the bday cutoff that aligns best with our HS and College system, let the best kids shake out for the national team. Not hard.

Agree with a lot of what you’re saying. Definitely an A/B test. But the results aren’t clear. YNT and NT clearly improved. Finally got solid coaching for the top of the NT pyramids. Enrollment is up the past 2 years, but largely peaked in 2010 before BY switch and any data before 2000 is worthless. College system is a mess, not because of USSF. Etc etc. to USSF basically is throwing up their hands and saying “on this we quit.”

Fair points. I guess the question is, what is the goal? If its getting on par with the international community it'll take MUCH more than switching enrollment dates. Have you ever been to a European community. Soccer is EVERYWHERE, on every street corner. We are generations away from achieving soccer excellence. Our goals in the US are all over the place. I believe we should be doing what we can to feed the college system with the best players and destroying pay to play as quickly as possible.

My DD had “trialed” for a couple of months every summer in Europe since she was 10. Spent a lot of time there over the past few years.

You’re right. Lots of football in the greens. That said, all the coaches and parents I talk with though point out how those old green spaces are being redeveloped into housing and retail and everything is changing into the mega training facilities and less street / pickup footy. Our problems are becoming their problems.

[Anonymous]

We’re getting to 400.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don’t see ECNL doing as much as some people hope they will do. I could see them addressing the trapped player problem in some way for next year’s crop of 8th graders but even that’s a long shot.

I will say I’ve seen this posted everywhere but have not seen US club or ECNL post the announcement plan that came out.

ECNL has nothing to do with HS soccer…why do people keep trotting out the 8th grade issue like it’s a grand injustice.

The lower grade players on a club team still get 4 years of HS soccer if they want to play HS soccer…they just don’t get it at the same time the 9th graders on their club team are able to play HS soccer. If you’re on an NPL or classic team, sure maybe those awful but extra touches are helpful. But if you’re playing ECNL (and your ECNL club allows you to play HS soccer…which many do not) then HS soccer reps are bad reps, and the 8th grader that is making up for it by playing in club, or grinding with a trainer will be 1000x better off.

Another BY wacko that has no clue how things work. Ofcourse ECNL allows HS play, lookup the history and why everyone gravitated to ECNL in the first place. ECNL has ALOT to do with HS soccer. ENCL kids aren't playing at school to get better BTW, life isn't all about going pro for these kids. Even the phenoms want to help their HS win state championship and ball out in front of classmates from time to time.

And if you don't care about the 8th grade issue then you're just a BY leftover trying to justify why the current system isn't that bad. I'm sorry, but your January kid is now going to compete the December kid sitting right next to them in history class. Maybe that is why your kid doesn't play in HS, because it would expose how inferior they are to the Q3/Q4 kids in the SAME grade. What a broken system...

Beyond dumb take. Also fairly repugnant vicarious joy in their own framing of punching down…

Do you really think that parents of January players think of their kids as punching down like it seems you’re looking forward to for your Q3/Q4 kid?

A lot of projection going on with you I think.

Stop with the BY self loathing. It's not punching down. For the 1000'th time, your kid is sitting right next to another kid. They are in the same grade. They are graduating at the same time. They are competing for the same scholarship. How is it punching down to have them play together. Get your head out of the broken system. I know you're holding on tight. Im sorry you're losing an artificial advantage. But to call it punching down is ridiculous. I'm so happy my kid gets to play with classmates now. They've been 'punching up' for years. There's no RAE advantage to have a Dec and Jan kid on the same team. So why is my kid so much better than yours?? You're about to find out.

No PP, but to answer your question: Your kid likely has more experience (maybe at least a year, depending on when they started) AND perhaps more experience on bigger fields (depends on what age they are at). Right now, that edge only helps in 9th grade. If/when the switch happens, it'll be an edge for that season and the older they are, the less of an edge, really. As for the Jan kid, they're more than likely welcome a more experienced player onto their team. Younger players want to play up as much as possible. It helps them get better.

So parents are playing billions a year for youth soccer. Considering transfer solidarity payments are less than peanuts, where would the money come from if pay to play was gone?

Solidarity and training fees are small in the US right now. I’m a FIFA player agent as well as a parent, and I see the fees that come through…it’s like $2k average.

That is changing though! You have to remember the ability to collect fees is pretty new to the US. The more the NCAA and the courts screw up college athletics, the more professional soccer becomes the goal.

Forget age cutoffs, the thing youth parents should be putting more energy into is adding chaos to the NCAA if you want a viable professional pathway and a youth system that doesn’t need to think about today’s economics because they know the payments will be coming from European pro clubs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don’t see ECNL doing as much as some people hope they will do. I could see them addressing the trapped player problem in some way for next year’s crop of 8th graders but even that’s a long shot.

I will say I’ve seen this posted everywhere but have not seen US club or ECNL post the announcement plan that came out.

ECNL has nothing to do with HS soccer…why do people keep trotting out the 8th grade issue like it’s a grand injustice.

The lower grade players on a club team still get 4 years of HS soccer if they want to play HS soccer…they just don’t get it at the same time the 9th graders on their club team are able to play HS soccer. If you’re on an NPL or classic team, sure maybe those awful but extra touches are helpful. But if you’re playing ECNL (and your ECNL club allows you to play HS soccer…which many do not) then HS soccer reps are bad reps, and the 8th grader that is making up for it by playing in club, or grinding with a trainer will be 1000x better off.

Another BY wacko that has no clue how things work. Ofcourse ECNL allows HS play, lookup the history and why everyone gravitated to ECNL in the first place. ECNL has ALOT to do with HS soccer. ENCL kids aren't playing at school to get better BTW, life isn't all about going pro for these kids. Even the phenoms want to help their HS win state championship and ball out in front of classmates from time to time.

And if you don't care about the 8th grade issue then you're just a BY leftover trying to justify why the current system isn't that bad. I'm sorry, but your January kid is now going to compete the December kid sitting right next to them in history class. Maybe that is why your kid doesn't play in HS, because it would expose how inferior they are to the Q3/Q4 kids in the SAME grade. What a broken system...

Beyond dumb take. Also fairly repugnant vicarious joy in their own framing of punching down…

Do you really think that parents of January players think of their kids as punching down like it seems you’re looking forward to for your Q3/Q4 kid?

A lot of projection going on with you I think.

Stop with the BY self loathing. It's not punching down. For the 1000'th time, your kid is sitting right next to another kid. They are in the same grade. They are graduating at the same time. They are competing for the same scholarship. How is it punching down to have them play together. Get your head out of the broken system. I know you're holding on tight. Im sorry you're losing an artificial advantage. But to call it punching down is ridiculous. I'm so happy my kid gets to play with classmates now. They've been 'punching up' for years. There's no RAE advantage to have a Dec and Jan kid on the same team. So why is my kid so much better than yours?? You're about to find out.

No PP, but to answer your question: Your kid likely has more experience (maybe at least a year, depending on when they started) AND perhaps more experience on bigger fields (depends on what age they are at). Right now, that edge only helps in 9th grade. If/when the switch happens, it'll be an edge for that season and the older they are, the less of an edge, really. As for the Jan kid, they're more than likely welcome a more experienced player onto their team. Younger players want to play up as much as possible. It helps them get better.

So parents are playing billions a year for youth soccer. Considering transfer solidarity payments are less than peanuts, where would the money come from if pay to play was gone?

Sorry, I wasn't debating pay-to-play. If anything, programs are needed to give those who can't afford it more of an opportunity.

Totally my fault. I responded to wrong comment. Sorry.

[Anonymous]

just stick a fork in it. what is left to discuss?

when ecnl makes their plans clear, you can have at it again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don’t see ECNL doing as much as some people hope they will do. I could see them addressing the trapped player problem in some way for next year’s crop of 8th graders but even that’s a long shot.

I will say I’ve seen this posted everywhere but have not seen US club or ECNL post the announcement plan that came out.

ECNL has nothing to do with HS soccer…why do people keep trotting out the 8th grade issue like it’s a grand injustice.

The lower grade players on a club team still get 4 years of HS soccer if they want to play HS soccer…they just don’t get it at the same time the 9th graders on their club team are able to play HS soccer. If you’re on an NPL or classic team, sure maybe those awful but extra touches are helpful. But if you’re playing ECNL (and your ECNL club allows you to play HS soccer…which many do not) then HS soccer reps are bad reps, and the 8th grader that is making up for it by playing in club, or grinding with a trainer will be 1000x better off.

Another BY wacko that has no clue how things work. Ofcourse ECNL allows HS play, lookup the history and why everyone gravitated to ECNL in the first place. ECNL has ALOT to do with HS soccer. ENCL kids aren't playing at school to get better BTW, life isn't all about going pro for these kids. Even the phenoms want to help their HS win state championship and ball out in front of classmates from time to time.

And if you don't care about the 8th grade issue then you're just a BY leftover trying to justify why the current system isn't that bad. I'm sorry, but your January kid is now going to compete the December kid sitting right next to them in history class. Maybe that is why your kid doesn't play in HS, because it would expose how inferior they are to the Q3/Q4 kids in the SAME grade. What a broken system...

Beyond dumb take. Also fairly repugnant vicarious joy in their own framing of punching down…

Do you really think that parents of January players think of their kids as punching down like it seems you’re looking forward to for your Q3/Q4 kid?

A lot of projection going on with you I think.

Stop with the BY self loathing. It's not punching down. For the 1000'th time, your kid is sitting right next to another kid. They are in the same grade. They are graduating at the same time. They are competing for the same scholarship. How is it punching down to have them play together. Get your head out of the broken system. I know you're holding on tight. Im sorry you're losing an artificial advantage. But to call it punching down is ridiculous. I'm so happy my kid gets to play with classmates now. They've been 'punching up' for years. There's no RAE advantage to have a Dec and Jan kid on the same team. So why is my kid so much better than yours?? You're about to find out.

No PP, but to answer your question: Your kid likely has more experience (maybe at least a year, depending on when they started) AND perhaps more experience on bigger fields (depends on what age they are at). Right now, that edge only helps in 9th grade. If/when the switch happens, it'll be an edge for that season and the older they are, the less of an edge, really. As for the Jan kid, they're more than likely welcome a more experienced player onto their team. Younger players want to play up as much as possible. It helps them get better.

This is the misconception. Why are there so few Q4 kids at the higher levels? Its not one season. Its not that every older kid in 8th grade is worse than their younger counterparts. Really sit with that question. It makes no sense. The answer is over years of being the youngest kid and other challenges of being trapped, kids drop out. LONG before this magical age you speak of where birthdays don't matter anymore and it all comes down to skill. It isn't just one season.

Except NOW that it's changing, asking those Q4 survivors to play on a less experienced team really takes the cake. Dress it up as victory all you want BUT it's just the club likely literally handing your kid another setback so they can have a stronger team during this transition.

The nonsense continues to be laughable. You're right, January kids have had it so rough. And now the poor December babies are going to be forced to join those unfortunate January kids. We're actually screwing the December kids all up by forcing them to play down with those January kids. We should just stick with the current system, you're right. Excellent arguments for BY. lol.