Options for opposing Connecticut Avenue changes?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

"Vision Zero" is such a perfect summation of Mayor Bowser and her administration.

This is just another push by the bike lobby to try to resuscitate something that no one but a small group of bike lobby bros wants. You can't have this and the mayor calling for the Federal Govt. to return to work. The two are diametrically opposed.

The reality is that the CT Ave bike lanes were always an uphill battle, but they died the moment a group of ANC commissioners took a photo of themselves giving the middle finger to a business that was opposed.

Yeah because most people in D.C. (a) are aware that ANCs exist, (b) know that these commissioners did this and (c) care?

That moment solidified business opposition to a proposal that always had a tenuous benefit due how low the projected utilization would be and caught the attention of key decision makers. I hate to break it to you, but there is not a single person who important decision making responsibility in this city that wants to be seen as deciding in favor of the middle finger brigade and against important figures in the business community.

The alley and its usage predate anyone who is living in those apartments.

Except for the Mayor, Councilmember and DDOT officials who have public safety and not the fragile sensibilities of a bunch of blue hairs, at stake.

Public safety requires a tax base. The business owners have spoken. And the mayor has listened.

Then why is DDOT still working on designs? It is rather ironic, the businesses would lose more money from customers by opposing these public safety measures. Their customers are telling them daily how they are getting to their stores and what the improvements will mean.

Guessing the business owners drive there to their businesses and (incorrectly) assume everyone else does too.

Maybe after being in business for multiple decades they have a pretty good handle on who their customers are? Maybe the last people they are going to trust are people who have exactly zero business experience? Maybe they are tired of being bullied? I don’t know.

Alternatively, maybe they don't. After all, who asks their customers about mode of transportation? Every study has found that good bike lanes are good for business, not bad.

A DC government study found that the number one challenge for Cleveland Park businesses along Connecticut Avenue is parking.

Or rather, that Cleveland Park business owners identified their number one challenge as parking. But why? And parking for whom? They don't know how their customers got there.

It’s really amazing that all these bumbling business owners have managed to stay open, some for decades. And don’t even ask me how any of them could have built restaurant empires, which is regarded as one of the toughest business lines. How many successful companies have you built with your advanced level of business acumen?

That's silly, PP. Just because you're good at running a restaurant or a dry cleaner or whatever, doesn't mean you know anything about transportation or how your customers get there. When you go into a business, does the owner ask you how you got there? Do you announce to the owner that you drove there, or walked, or whatever you did?

Local business people probably hear from customers who complain that they can't find nearby parking and next time will take their business elsewhere. I'm all for more cyclists and walkers. I have less patience for those who boast of their car-free lifestyle while spending a small fortune for on-demand ride services that cruise around. (There's little "sharing" or carbon-lite about them.). But the reality is that many people -- busy parents, workers who live some distance away, local customers who are less mobile -- need to drive and park.

Exactly. They don't hear from customers who drove and could find parking. They don't hear from customers who walked, or biked, or took the bus. And then they say that the biggest problem is parking...

Fortunately for car customers, after the bike lanes on Connecticut go in, it will still be possible to drive to businesses on Connecticut Avenue and park.

What’s going on is that DDOT and the ANC are picking winners and losers among businesses. They don’t really value a diverse business strip with a mixture of restaurants, retail, and the sort of less glamorous, less upscale stores (appliance repair, frame stiore, dry cleaners) that still serve a neighborhood. After all, it was at the repair shop that the ANC commissioners so full of themselves extended their middle finger. Such a varied business strip depends on convenient parking for customers who need to carry heavy loads or can’t walk and ride a bike. It also needs pedestrian traffic and, yes, customers who might ride a bike. Unfortunately, there’s a myopic vison that a business area of trendy bars and restaurants can draw a customer base that does not need private cars or just heavily uses Uber. That vison excludes residents, especially older ones and those on fixed incomes, who depend on the modest-sized grocery for their daily needs and patronise the less trendy businesses. They may be less mobile and need to drive to Connecticut Ave. The message to them seems to be to go shop elsewhere, even to move elsewhere.

The "less glamorous" stores can also adapt. Establish pick up and delivery or use the back alley for drop off. There are all sorts of ways these issues can be addressed. Certainly retailers in other cities have figured it out.

People on Macomb & in Ordway Gardens are already pretty worked up about all of the trucks using the alley and those streets to torn around, etc. It will be a real treat for all when the Connecticut block is redeveloped to eight or nine stories high, which apparently is the plan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

"Vision Zero" is such a perfect summation of Mayor Bowser and her administration.

This is just another push by the bike lobby to try to resuscitate something that no one but a small group of bike lobby bros wants. You can't have this and the mayor calling for the Federal Govt. to return to work. The two are diametrically opposed.

The reality is that the CT Ave bike lanes were always an uphill battle, but they died the moment a group of ANC commissioners took a photo of themselves giving the middle finger to a business that was opposed.

Yeah because most people in D.C. (a) are aware that ANCs exist, (b) know that these commissioners did this and (c) care?

That moment solidified business opposition to a proposal that always had a tenuous benefit due how low the projected utilization would be and caught the attention of key decision makers. I hate to break it to you, but there is not a single person who important decision making responsibility in this city that wants to be seen as deciding in favor of the middle finger brigade and against important figures in the business community.

Except for the Mayor, Councilmember and DDOT officials who have public safety and not the fragile sensibilities of a bunch of blue hairs, at stake.

Public safety requires a tax base. The business owners have spoken. And the mayor has listened.

Then why is DDOT still working on designs? It is rather ironic, the businesses would lose more money from customers by opposing these public safety measures. Their customers are telling them daily how they are getting to their stores and what the improvements will mean.

Guessing the business owners drive there to their businesses and (incorrectly) assume everyone else does too.

Maybe after being in business for multiple decades they have a pretty good handle on who their customers are? Maybe the last people they are going to trust are people who have exactly zero business experience? Maybe they are tired of being bullied? I don’t know.

Alternatively, maybe they don't. After all, who asks their customers about mode of transportation? Every study has found that good bike lanes are good for business, not bad.

A DC government study found that the number one challenge for Cleveland Park businesses along Connecticut Avenue is parking.

Or rather, that Cleveland Park business owners identified their number one challenge as parking. But why? And parking for whom? They don't know how their customers got there.

It’s really amazing that all these bumbling business owners have managed to stay open, some for decades. And don’t even ask me how any of them could have built restaurant empires, which is regarded as one of the toughest business lines. How many successful companies have you built with your advanced level of business acumen?

That's silly, PP. Just because you're good at running a restaurant or a dry cleaner or whatever, doesn't mean you know anything about transportation or how your customers get there. When you go into a business, does the owner ask you how you got there? Do you announce to the owner that you drove there, or walked, or whatever you did?

Local business people probably hear from customers who complain that they can't find nearby parking and next time will take their business elsewhere. I'm all for more cyclists and walkers. I have less patience for those who boast of their car-free lifestyle while spending a small fortune for on-demand ride services that cruise around. (There's little "sharing" or carbon-lite about them.). But the reality is that many people -- busy parents, workers who live some distance away, local customers who are less mobile -- need to drive and park.

Exactly. They don't hear from customers who drove and could find parking. They don't hear from customers who walked, or biked, or took the bus. And then they say that the biggest problem is parking...

Fortunately for car customers, after the bike lanes on Connecticut go in, it will still be possible to drive to businesses on Connecticut Avenue and park.

What’s going on is that DDOT and the ANC are picking winners and losers among businesses. They don’t really value a diverse business strip with a mixture of restaurants, retail, and the sort of less glamorous, less upscale stores (appliance repair, frame stiore, dry cleaners) that still serve a neighborhood. After all, it was at the repair shop that the ANC commissioners so full of themselves extended their middle finger. Such a varied business strip depends on convenient parking for customers who need to carry heavy loads or can’t walk and ride a bike. It also needs pedestrian traffic and, yes, customers who might ride a bike. Unfortunately, there’s a myopic vison that a business area of trendy bars and restaurants can draw a customer base that does not need private cars or just heavily uses Uber. That vison excludes residents, especially older ones and those on fixed incomes, who depend on the modest-sized grocery for their daily needs and patronise the less trendy businesses. They may be less mobile and need to drive to Connecticut Ave. The message to them seems to be to go shop elsewhere, even to move elsewhere.

The "less glamorous" stores can also adapt. Establish pick up and delivery or use the back alley for drop off. There are all sorts of ways these issues can be addressed. Certainly retailers in other cities have figured it out.

People on Macomb & in Ordway Gardens are already pretty worked up about all of the trucks using the alley and those streets to torn around, etc. It will be a real treat for all when the Connecticut block is redeveloped to eight or nine stories high, which apparently is the plan.

The alley and its usage predate anyone who is living in those apartments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

"Vision Zero" is such a perfect summation of Mayor Bowser and her administration.

This is just another push by the bike lobby to try to resuscitate something that no one but a small group of bike lobby bros wants. You can't have this and the mayor calling for the Federal Govt. to return to work. The two are diametrically opposed.

The reality is that the CT Ave bike lanes were always an uphill battle, but they died the moment a group of ANC commissioners took a photo of themselves giving the middle finger to a business that was opposed.

Yeah because most people in D.C. (a) are aware that ANCs exist, (b) know that these commissioners did this and (c) care?

That moment solidified business opposition to a proposal that always had a tenuous benefit due how low the projected utilization would be and caught the attention of key decision makers. I hate to break it to you, but there is not a single person who important decision making responsibility in this city that wants to be seen as deciding in favor of the middle finger brigade and against important figures in the business community.

Except for the Mayor, Councilmember and DDOT officials who have public safety and not the fragile sensibilities of a bunch of blue hairs, at stake.

Public safety requires a tax base. The business owners have spoken. And the mayor has listened.

Then why is DDOT still working on designs? It is rather ironic, the businesses would lose more money from customers by opposing these public safety measures. Their customers are telling them daily how they are getting to their stores and what the improvements will mean.

Guessing the business owners drive there to their businesses and (incorrectly) assume everyone else does too.

Maybe after being in business for multiple decades they have a pretty good handle on who their customers are? Maybe the last people they are going to trust are people who have exactly zero business experience? Maybe they are tired of being bullied? I don’t know.

Alternatively, maybe they don't. After all, who asks their customers about mode of transportation? Every study has found that good bike lanes are good for business, not bad.

A DC government study found that the number one challenge for Cleveland Park businesses along Connecticut Avenue is parking.

Or rather, that Cleveland Park business owners identified their number one challenge as parking. But why? And parking for whom? They don't know how their customers got there.

It’s really amazing that all these bumbling business owners have managed to stay open, some for decades. And don’t even ask me how any of them could have built restaurant empires, which is regarded as one of the toughest business lines. How many successful companies have you built with your advanced level of business acumen?

That's silly, PP. Just because you're good at running a restaurant or a dry cleaner or whatever, doesn't mean you know anything about transportation or how your customers get there. When you go into a business, does the owner ask you how you got there? Do you announce to the owner that you drove there, or walked, or whatever you did?

Local business people probably hear from customers who complain that they can't find nearby parking and next time will take their business elsewhere. I'm all for more cyclists and walkers. I have less patience for those who boast of their car-free lifestyle while spending a small fortune for on-demand ride services that cruise around. (There's little "sharing" or carbon-lite about them.). But the reality is that many people -- busy parents, workers who live some distance away, local customers who are less mobile -- need to drive and park.

Exactly. They don't hear from customers who drove and could find parking. They don't hear from customers who walked, or biked, or took the bus. And then they say that the biggest problem is parking...

Fortunately for car customers, after the bike lanes on Connecticut go in, it will still be possible to drive to businesses on Connecticut Avenue and park.

What’s going on is that DDOT and the ANC are picking winners and losers among businesses. They don’t really value a diverse business strip with a mixture of restaurants, retail, and the sort of less glamorous, less upscale stores (appliance repair, frame stiore, dry cleaners) that still serve a neighborhood. After all, it was at the repair shop that the ANC commissioners so full of themselves extended their middle finger. Such a varied business strip depends on convenient parking for customers who need to carry heavy loads or can’t walk and ride a bike. It also needs pedestrian traffic and, yes, customers who might ride a bike. Unfortunately, there’s a myopic vison that a business area of trendy bars and restaurants can draw a customer base that does not need private cars or just heavily uses Uber. That vison excludes residents, especially older ones and those on fixed incomes, who depend on the modest-sized grocery for their daily needs and patronise the less trendy businesses. They may be less mobile and need to drive to Connecticut Ave. The message to them seems to be to go shop elsewhere, even to move elsewhere.

The "less glamorous" stores can also adapt. Establish pick up and delivery or use the back alley for drop off. There are all sorts of ways these issues can be addressed. Certainly retailers in other cities have figured it out.

People on Macomb & in Ordway Gardens are already pretty worked up about all of the trucks using the alley and those streets to torn around, etc. It will be a real treat for all when the Connecticut block is redeveloped to eight or nine stories high, which apparently is the plan.

The alley and its usage predate anyone who is living in those apartments.

Massive redevelopment of that block, as city planners propose, will make the alley untenable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

"Vision Zero" is such a perfect summation of Mayor Bowser and her administration.

This is just another push by the bike lobby to try to resuscitate something that no one but a small group of bike lobby bros wants. You can't have this and the mayor calling for the Federal Govt. to return to work. The two are diametrically opposed.

The reality is that the CT Ave bike lanes were always an uphill battle, but they died the moment a group of ANC commissioners took a photo of themselves giving the middle finger to a business that was opposed.

Yeah because most people in D.C. (a) are aware that ANCs exist, (b) know that these commissioners did this and (c) care?

That moment solidified business opposition to a proposal that always had a tenuous benefit due how low the projected utilization would be and caught the attention of key decision makers. I hate to break it to you, but there is not a single person who important decision making responsibility in this city that wants to be seen as deciding in favor of the middle finger brigade and against important figures in the business community.

Except for the Mayor, Councilmember and DDOT officials who have public safety and not the fragile sensibilities of a bunch of blue hairs, at stake.

Public safety requires a tax base. The business owners have spoken. And the mayor has listened.

Then why is DDOT still working on designs? It is rather ironic, the businesses would lose more money from customers by opposing these public safety measures. Their customers are telling them daily how they are getting to their stores and what the improvements will mean.

Guessing the business owners drive there to their businesses and (incorrectly) assume everyone else does too.

Maybe after being in business for multiple decades they have a pretty good handle on who their customers are? Maybe the last people they are going to trust are people who have exactly zero business experience? Maybe they are tired of being bullied? I don’t know.

Alternatively, maybe they don't. After all, who asks their customers about mode of transportation? Every study has found that good bike lanes are good for business, not bad.

A DC government study found that the number one challenge for Cleveland Park businesses along Connecticut Avenue is parking.

Or rather, that Cleveland Park business owners identified their number one challenge as parking. But why? And parking for whom? They don't know how their customers got there.

It’s really amazing that all these bumbling business owners have managed to stay open, some for decades. And don’t even ask me how any of them could have built restaurant empires, which is regarded as one of the toughest business lines. How many successful companies have you built with your advanced level of business acumen?

That's silly, PP. Just because you're good at running a restaurant or a dry cleaner or whatever, doesn't mean you know anything about transportation or how your customers get there. When you go into a business, does the owner ask you how you got there? Do you announce to the owner that you drove there, or walked, or whatever you did?

Local business people probably hear from customers who complain that they can't find nearby parking and next time will take their business elsewhere. I'm all for more cyclists and walkers. I have less patience for those who boast of their car-free lifestyle while spending a small fortune for on-demand ride services that cruise around. (There's little "sharing" or carbon-lite about them.). But the reality is that many people -- busy parents, workers who live some distance away, local customers who are less mobile -- need to drive and park.

Exactly. They don't hear from customers who drove and could find parking. They don't hear from customers who walked, or biked, or took the bus. And then they say that the biggest problem is parking...

Fortunately for car customers, after the bike lanes on Connecticut go in, it will still be possible to drive to businesses on Connecticut Avenue and park.

What’s going on is that DDOT and the ANC are picking winners and losers among businesses. They don’t really value a diverse business strip with a mixture of restaurants, retail, and the sort of less glamorous, less upscale stores (appliance repair, frame stiore, dry cleaners) that still serve a neighborhood. After all, it was at the repair shop that the ANC commissioners so full of themselves extended their middle finger. Such a varied business strip depends on convenient parking for customers who need to carry heavy loads or can’t walk and ride a bike. It also needs pedestrian traffic and, yes, customers who might ride a bike. Unfortunately, there’s a myopic vison that a business area of trendy bars and restaurants can draw a customer base that does not need private cars or just heavily uses Uber. That vison excludes residents, especially older ones and those on fixed incomes, who depend on the modest-sized grocery for their daily needs and patronise the less trendy businesses. They may be less mobile and need to drive to Connecticut Ave. The message to them seems to be to go shop elsewhere, even to move elsewhere.

The "less glamorous" stores can also adapt. Establish pick up and delivery or use the back alley for drop off. There are all sorts of ways these issues can be addressed. Certainly retailers in other cities have figured it out.

People on Macomb & in Ordway Gardens are already pretty worked up about all of the trucks using the alley and those streets to torn around, etc. It will be a real treat for all when the Connecticut block is redeveloped to eight or nine stories high, which apparently is the plan.

The plan is up to six or seven if the developer wants it AND it is compatible with the neighborhood, at least in Cleveland Park.

90 feet equals nine floors.

[Anonymous]

With the development plan, that alley will have to accommodate all deliveries, move-in/move-outs for hundreds of apartments, likely the entrance and exit to a parking garage and Ordway Gardens parking. Good luck with that! People in Ordway Gardens should get in touch with their ANC rep, who voted to support this development without thinking it through.

[Anonymous]

Clearly OP wants more of this

How many more people need to be maimed before the city moves forward with safety improvements?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Clearly OP wants more of this

How many more people need to be maimed before the city moves forward with safety improvements?

You're seven times more likely to be murdered in Washington D.C. than die in a traffic accident, and yet I doubt you worry about getting murdered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clearly OP wants more of this



How many more people need to be maimed before the city moves forward with safety improvements?

You're seven times more likely to be murdered in Washington D.C. than die in a traffic accident, and yet I doubt you worry about getting murdered.

Most people understand that it's not binary: either everything is peachy-keen, or you're dead. Most people understand that car crashes that cause injuries are bad, even if the injuries are not fatal injuries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Clearly OP wants more of this

How many more people need to be maimed before the city moves forward with safety improvements?

Do you know the circumstances of this accident? And what is your evidence that bike lanes would have prevented it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clearly OP wants more of this

How many more people need to be maimed before the city moves forward with safety improvements?

Do you know the circumstances of this accident? And what is your evidence that bike lanes would have prevented it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Clearly OP wants more of this

How many more people need to be maimed before the city moves forward with safety improvements?

The proposed safety "improvements" will lead to more incidents like this one. Increasing congestion and decreasing visibility does not make anything safer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clearly OP wants more of this

How many more people need to be maimed before the city moves forward with safety improvements?

The proposed safety "improvements" will lead to more incidents like this one. Increasing congestion and decreasing visibility does not make anything safer.

All of the experts say you're wrong, but why trust them when we can trust an anonymous rando on the Internet?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clearly OP wants more of this

How many more people need to be maimed before the city moves forward with safety improvements?

Do you know the circumstances of this accident? And what is your evidence that bike lanes would have prevented it?

The subject of the thread is options to oppose Connecticut Avenue changes. The changes being proposed as safety changes. The OP wants to oppose those changes. Yet a pedestrian was hit by a driver in front of a speed camera. Why do we accept this on our streets? It is unnecesary carnage and should be considered untolerable.

Nowhere in my post did I mention bike lanes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clearly OP wants more of this

How many more people need to be maimed before the city moves forward with safety improvements?

The proposed safety "improvements" will lead to more incidents like this one. Increasing congestion and decreasing visibility does not make anything safer.

1) reducing speed always makes things safer
2) what reduced visibility? please be specific.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clearly OP wants more of this

How many more people need to be maimed before the city moves forward with safety improvements?

The proposed safety "improvements" will lead to more incidents like this one. Increasing congestion and decreasing visibility does not make anything safer.

What's needed is more pro-active, aggressive enforcement, including traffic stops by MPD - versus reactive stops when accidents occur. It's still not clear how bike lanes will make Connecticut Ave safer for pedestrians. Instead, the constraint of Connecticut Ave from three lanes each direction (MD north of the circle) to proposed two lanes (DC south of the circle) will result in vehicles changing lanes and jockeying for position, more erratic driving, an increased number of delivery vehicles and buses stopped in travel lanes, and more pedestrian-bike conflicts when pedestrians cross the bike lanes. Bike lanes may or may not make sense in a given location, but improving pedestrian and overall road safety have not been shown to be a compelling, supportable rationale for them.