Specifics of a government attorney career

[Anonymous]

I'm considering a move from a small private practice to a career as a government attorney. I know there have been a lot of posts lately about *getting* a federal attorney job, but I have more questions about what it is like to *be* a federal lawyer.

I currently work in a private practice that deals with employment law. My hours aren't too burdensome, but the stress of the job and the uncertainty of schedule is a little much at times. I'm wondering whether a federal job, with litigation-like duties, would be a step up in terms of work/life balance. I'm also wondering whether I would be satisfied with my career. It is great to have short hours, good benefits and low stress, but would I like the actual work that I'd be doing for most of my waking hours? I worry that the "federal machine" with its T&A procedures, complex performance standards and arguably boring and un-challenging subject matter wouldn't be a good fit for me. Any insights would be greatly appreciated! I'd also love a referral to any other website for government attorneys. I'm surprised I haven't been able to find one.

Thanks in advance!

[Anonymous]

bump

[Anonymous]

I made the transition you describe about 4 years ago (in my case, from big firm employment law practice to government attorney), and I have never regretted it for a minute.

For me, the transition was part of a "get real" process, where I realized that being a partner in a large firm, doing interesting work, raking in the big money, having easy/steady work days, a family life, time to pursue my hobbies, and a good relationship with my husband was a pipe dream. I gave up the money/partnership, but I have the rest, and I've never been happier.

I worried a little about the bureaucracy of the government, and having to basically "clock-in" instead of making my own hours at the firm. But, I discovered that I am really not a high maintenance person. I don't need a secretary. I don't even need a paralegal. Does that mean that I sometimes spend several hours doing something pretty mundane? Yes. Does the red tape sometimes make me want to pull my hair out? Yes. The clocking-in and out has bothered me far less than I thought it would. Its a little tough the first few years (when you have less leave), but I'll tell you, even in my first year of government service, I took more vacation than I ever had at the firm. Plus, you get all these silly little holidays (like Columbus Day) that I never would have taken off at the firm. Even bigger ones like MLK day,... EVERYONE at my firm worked. Plus you have sick days... so on the rare occasions when I am sick-- I ACTUALLY STAY HOME! This is a completely foreign concept to me. It means I can kick most viruses in a day or two, instead of walking around like the living dead for weeks on end every January/February!

For me, I really enjoyed doing EEOC law/lawsuits, and also counseling clients on performance problems. I still do that. I think I have a bit less variety than I used to... I no longer do executive compensation issues, non-competes, etc. but frankly that stuff was never my favorite thing anyway. I litigate some... but only some. And that keeps my schedule manageable. I like the mix I have now, and I'm not bored. I would say, I think it is 10-20% less challenging (intellectually) than my firm job, but frankly that's fine by me.

The good news is, there are ALWAYS positions out there for employment lawyers in the government... and they vary greatly in terms of scope. Many will read almost the same on the announcement, so you don't always know what the job entails until you interview. I was lucky enough to get into this before the economy crashed, so I had 5 interviews. The positions ranged from 100% litigating EEOC cases, to law-clerk-like duties for MSPJ judges, and everything in between. I landed in a nice place with good people where I do a mix of litigation and counselling, and I love it. Perhaps the best thing about the change for me was losing the "billable hours" mentality that had a strangle hold on my life. I just get to practice law now. Its not a "business". If I'm slow at work , I take a long lunch instead of fretting about business and writing professional development articles. When I go home, I am home... 100% home with very few exceptions. I don't think about work. I don't do work. I am home with my kids. In my four years in government, I have worked weekends 3 times.

Things I miss about private practice? Really not much. I miss the money, but only a little. I'm a GS-15, and I get paid plenty. I miss having a paralegal on occasion. And I miss the firm Christmas party (my last remaining excuse to get really dressed up!). I love that my colleagues have outside interests that they get to pursue.

So, is life perfect? No, but it is such a better fit for my life and what I want. I joke with my friends, that I think the transition has added 10-15 years to my life. I didn't realize how stressed I was at the firm until I got away from it.

[Anonymous]

Well, another employment lawyer here trying to make the switch. Two questions I have gotten at recent interviews are : 1) Why do you want to leave partnership at a big firm for a government position, and 2) Are you sure you can take the pay cut? The first one is easy -- though I have to admitI always want to just say, probably for the same reasons you are not working in private practice. The second one I find harder to answer. I can't tell if people are just curious or whether they are afraid I'll come in, realize the money is too low and leave. The fact is that now that I have paid off debts and saved money I am in a position to take the pay cut (though my kids will not attending a private school, cars will need to last longer, dinners out will decrease, etc.). Are the interviewers asking because they are curious or worried about a quick turn around?

FYIW - The competition is tightening for positions -- at my last interview one of the interviewers told me they received over 150 resumes in response to the posting (and the application submission period was only two weeks long).

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thank you both so much for the insight. It is very helpful!

As an experiment, I didn't go in to the office this weekend, like I normally would. (I'll pay for it today though!) It was pure HEAVEN to have the whole weekend to enoy my family and take care of errands around the house. I even took a nap on Sunday! I can't even imagine every weekend being like that!

As far as compensation, we did the math and realized that my "per hour" income, if you include all those federal benefits, would actually by higher if I make the switch to the government job. So, as long as I don't actively dis-like the work, it seems like a no-brainer to take the job (assuming I am offered it, knock on wood!).

As to my second question, is anyone aware of a list-serve or association out there for federal lawyers? There are so many associations, I'd be surprised if there isn't one.

Thanks again tot he PP's and I'd love to hear from anybody else with insight!

[Anonymous]

Another incredibly happy federal government attorney here, although I've always been a government attorney so I can't compare between this and firm life.

In terms of the "federal machine" OP commented on, though, and the need to clock in/clock out, be aware that agencies are vastly different from each other. There are noticeable differences in culture even from one component to another within the same agency. Unfortunately, you won't be able to ask "do I have to clock in and out" at an interview, but you can ask questions relating to office culture and dynamics and maybe get a feel for how things work there. The same goes for the "arguably boring and un-challenging subject matter," which varies from job to job.

To PP who wondered about interviewers asking about the pay cut, my best guess is that they're asking because they know how much more you're making as a private attorney than you'd ever make as a government attorney and want to make sure you've actually thought seriously about the new pay scale you'd be on, without significant bonuses, etc. At my office, when we've got money to hire, we do so as quickly as possible. We want to know that the people we're making offers to will accept, and not suddenly decide that they can't afford to take a government position.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Another incredibly happy federal government attorney here, although I've always been a government attorney so I can't compare between this and firm life.

In terms of the "federal machine" OP commented on, though, and the need to clock in/clock out, be aware that agencies are vastly different from each other. There are noticeable differences in culture even from one component to another within the same agency. Unfortunately, you won't be able to ask "do I have to clock in and out" at an interview, but you can ask questions relating to office culture and dynamics and maybe get a feel for how things work there. The same goes for the "arguably boring and un-challenging subject matter," which varies from job to job.

To PP who wondered about interviewers asking about the pay cut, my best guess is that they're asking because they know how much more you're making as a private attorney than you'd ever make as a government attorney and want to make sure you've actually thought seriously about the new pay scale you'd be on, without significant bonuses, etc. At my office, when we've got money to hire, we do so as quickly as possible. We want to know that the people we're making offers to will accept, and not suddenly decide that they can't afford to take a government position.

8:11 here -- thank you for an insight on the money question, that make sense. I have given this alot of thought, but I can imagine that others only really consider the ramifications once they have the offer. The first time someone raised the issues it was with the introductory statement, "you know, you will be taking a large pay cut to work here," and my internal voice responded, "no. really? I had no idea the government paid less." The same interviewer explained that I would probably have a smaller office than I have now.

[Anonymous]

Another satisfied government attorney here. I made the switch after nearly 8 years in the private practice world (I was a law clerk for 4 of those years-attending law school at night). I was not a partner, but still took a significant pay cut. The question I got at my interview relating to private practice was "why would you want to leave your firm since it appears you have been quite successful there?" Do you answer, I don't want to work as hard. . .that's not fair to the people who are interviewing you (they work plenty hard). . . I answered that I needed less travel and more flexibility and wanted to spend more time with my family. I interviewed when I was 5 monhs pregnant with #2 child and worked only 6 weeks before delivering. I think that some attorneys who have only been in the government cannot fathom giving up a salary of say $300K for, at the most, like, . . .$160K in the gov't (salary & bonuses-not including other benefits). Perhaps this is because those who have not billed their time in 6 minute intervals for years on end have no idea how easy it is to be in the office for 10 hours and bill 8 hours (sometimes even less, if involved with billing matters, firm management, recruitment, associate training, etc.).

[Anonymous]

A satisfied fed attorney here who worked less than a year in the private sector and made the switch (several years back). The "govt machine" differs with each Agency and administration. The tone of our Agency changed drastically with the move to GWB (I'm not saying good or bad but it was different). Luckily, I have a great office where the bosses are not clock watchers and as long as we get our work done, they are pretty flexible. Also, they allow telework.

I do some litigation some advising. It's a nice mix. Not overly stressful. Never have worked a single weekend (though others in my office have, I suspect that is just a product of their procrastination not the workload).

As for the money questions, frankly, we have asked it. We get HUNDREDS of applications every time we hire. And we want people to stay b/c it is a huge pain -for many reasons- to go through the hiring process and train someone (I have a somewhat peculiar agency that has its own culture). Also, institutional knowledge is important to our jobs. We don't want to have to re-hire in another year or so. Also, we know there are lots of big firm attorneys who would not have given a govt job the time of day a few years ago b/c of the salary (which I understand). And, when the economy shapes up in a couple years, we don't want to be left with a void while we go through the hiring process again. So we want to make sure that your in it for the long haul (in as much as we can). FWIW, we've been pretty successful with this. We have a VERY, VERY low turnover in my office, with most over 20 years in the Agency.

[Anonymous]

Always realizing the grammar police are lurking on this site, I beg forgiveness for my typos. I'm typing fast since nap time is ending for my kiddo.

[Anonymous]

Regarding why you would want to take a pay cut: whenever people ask why I chose to get out of the private sector, I simply state that I prefer government service over corporate America. Government service is more stable and, in many cases, more interesting.

[Anonymous]

For other employment attorneys out there, how does the work-life balance compare in terms of practicing employment law at a government agency vs. in an in-house legal department at a corporation?

[Anonymous]

No work for taxpayers money - sign me up!

[Anonymous]

Go away troll.

[Anonymous]

"Go away: no work for taxpayers money"