The Trump Women and their Fashion Mishaps - Part Three

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think she just put on big sunglasses because she was on a long flight and didn’t want to be photographed without makeup. Tbh I get it.

+1
She probably had slept on the plane and just wanted to get home and in bed. I do love the absurd conspiracies peddled here though.

Why would we care if you love them or not? Not our concern. "Absurd conspiracies" is a your pretext alone anyway. Again, that's you.

Looks like a nerve was struck! Do continue peddling your ridiculous conspiracies. I'm glad it gives you an outlet.

More pretexts...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another Royalty/US crossover - This time with that man, Usha, and the Crown Prince and Princess of Jordan. Usha looks... fine. Appropriate. She is being out-fashioned by Rajwa.

I am her biggest hater but this is...fine

It's fine. But it adds more fuel to my theory that Usha is just really depressed and barely able to pull it together for public appearances. It screams frazzled, WOHM who stopped at WHBM on the way home to buy something for an event.

There is nothing about that picture that screams frazzled.

The issue is that she looks like she's doing the bare minimum to look presentable at an event. She's SLOTUS and her job right now is to represent the US at events...and dinner with foreign royalty, even at their house, is an official event.

For me, the frazzled part is something I can relate to. I worked all day, kids will be all over me when I get home and sitter doesn't arrive for another hour, but oh no the dress I was going to wear to this dinner for DH's work is at the dry cleaners. So let me stop at the mall and get the first reasonable thing that fits. If I'm lucky, I will have time to shower, blow dry my hair, and do 5 min of makeup. That's what she looks like, but that isn't her life anymore.

I really have no idea why some of you go on creating these inner lives for these women. Also I thought you understand what the phrase “screams frazzled” means.

+100
I think they must be bereft of their own inner life and so have to project fantasies onto other women. It's simultaneously entertaining and pathetic. Usha looks the polar opposite of "frazzled" here.

I think Usha is particularly interesting for the posters on this forum because until a couple of years ago she had a life which was very reminiscent of many of the posters here. She’s relatable in a way that former “model” Melania and midwestern governor’s wife Karen Pence are not. So I think some posters here are thinking “hey, I could do much better than this if someone plucked mefrom my early 40s busy lawyer with small kids life into being SLOTUS with a virtually unlimited fashion budget all of a sudden.”

For a fashion thread, she’s a more relatable paper doll than other prior FLOTUSes and SLOTUSes so people do project what they would be wearing on her.

It is simpler than that- she is attractive and rich but chooses to look “meh” in front of the entire world. It’s a head scratcher to anyone who tries to look good on even a semi-regular basis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another Royalty/US crossover - This time with that man, Usha, and the Crown Prince and Princess of Jordan. Usha looks... fine. Appropriate. She is being out-fashioned by Rajwa.

I am her biggest hater but this is...fine

It's fine. But it adds more fuel to my theory that Usha is just really depressed and barely able to pull it together for public appearances. It screams frazzled, WOHM who stopped at WHBM on the way home to buy something for an event.

There is nothing about that picture that screams frazzled.

The issue is that she looks like she's doing the bare minimum to look presentable at an event. She's SLOTUS and her job right now is to represent the US at events...and dinner with foreign royalty, even at their house, is an official event.

For me, the frazzled part is something I can relate to. I worked all day, kids will be all over me when I get home and sitter doesn't arrive for another hour, but oh no the dress I was going to wear to this dinner for DH's work is at the dry cleaners. So let me stop at the mall and get the first reasonable thing that fits. If I'm lucky, I will have time to shower, blow dry my hair, and do 5 min of makeup. That's what she looks like, but that isn't her life anymore.

I really have no idea why some of you go on creating these inner lives for these women. Also I thought you understand what the phrase “screams frazzled” means.

+100
I think they must be bereft of their own inner life and so have to project fantasies onto other women. It's simultaneously entertaining and pathetic. Usha looks the polar opposite of "frazzled" here.

I think Usha is particularly interesting for the posters on this forum because until a couple of years ago she had a life which was very reminiscent of many of the posters here. She’s relatable in a way that former “model” Melania and midwestern governor’s wife Karen Pence are not. So I think some posters here are thinking “hey, I could do much better than this if someone plucked mefrom my early 40s busy lawyer with small kids life into being SLOTUS with a virtually unlimited fashion budget all of a sudden.”

For a fashion thread, she’s a more relatable paper doll than other prior FLOTUSes and SLOTUSes so people do project what they would be wearing on her.

Posters can speak for themselves. Don't need to guess what they are thinking.

Not the PP, but posters have been speaking for themselves, and we are reacting to what they have been saying. Try to follow along.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another Royalty/US crossover - This time with that man, Usha, and the Crown Prince and Princess of Jordan. Usha looks... fine. Appropriate. She is being out-fashioned by Rajwa.

I am her biggest hater but this is...fine

The top looks like a shell (not a seashell but the kind of base layer of clothing called a "shell"), looks like it needs a blazer, cardigan, wrap, scarf or something to complete the look.

No, it's blissfully simple.

Simple would have been a sleeveless sweater or sleeveless silk knit top with an interesting neckline. Not a shell in woven polyester that is obviously meant to be worn under something.

I bet you're the poster who always advocates "nice slacks, a lovely silk scarf, and a spritz of perfume" when people ask for clothing advice. Her top is obviously silk, not polyester.

NP: I’m trying to find information about Usha’s outfit and I stumbled onto this hilarious article that cheerfully ignores Usha’s outfit and existence, like we all wish we could: https://www.arabnews.com/node/2616040/lifestyle

LOL.

I gotta say that I don't love the Princess Royal's outfit here either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another Royalty/US crossover - This time with that man, Usha, and the Crown Prince and Princess of Jordan. Usha looks... fine. Appropriate. She is being out-fashioned by Rajwa.

I am her biggest hater but this is...fine

It's fine. But it adds more fuel to my theory that Usha is just really depressed and barely able to pull it together for public appearances. It screams frazzled, WOHM who stopped at WHBM on the way home to buy something for an event.

There is nothing about that picture that screams frazzled.

The issue is that she looks like she's doing the bare minimum to look presentable at an event. She's SLOTUS and her job right now is to represent the US at events...and dinner with foreign royalty, even at their house, is an official event.

For me, the frazzled part is something I can relate to. I worked all day, kids will be all over me when I get home and sitter doesn't arrive for another hour, but oh no the dress I was going to wear to this dinner for DH's work is at the dry cleaners. So let me stop at the mall and get the first reasonable thing that fits. If I'm lucky, I will have time to shower, blow dry my hair, and do 5 min of makeup. That's what she looks like, but that isn't her life anymore.

I really have no idea why some of you go on creating these inner lives for these women. Also I thought you understand what the phrase “screams frazzled” means.

+100
I think they must be bereft of their own inner life and so have to project fantasies onto other women. It's simultaneously entertaining and pathetic. Usha looks the polar opposite of "frazzled" here.

I think Usha is particularly interesting for the posters on this forum because until a couple of years ago she had a life which was very reminiscent of many of the posters here. She’s relatable in a way that former “model” Melania and midwestern governor’s wife Karen Pence are not. So I think some posters here are thinking “hey, I could do much better than this if someone plucked mefrom my early 40s busy lawyer with small kids life into being SLOTUS with a virtually unlimited fashion budget all of a sudden.”

For a fashion thread, she’s a more relatable paper doll than other prior FLOTUSes and SLOTUSes so people do project what they would be wearing on her.

Posters can speak for themselves. Don't need to guess what they are thinking.

Not the PP, but posters have been speaking for themselves, and we are reacting to what they have been saying. Try to follow along.

You are creating fan fiction of what you think they are thinking.

Also why react to other's free speech?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another Royalty/US crossover - This time with that man, Usha, and the Crown Prince and Princess of Jordan. Usha looks... fine. Appropriate. She is being out-fashioned by Rajwa.

I am her biggest hater but this is...fine

It's fine. But it adds more fuel to my theory that Usha is just really depressed and barely able to pull it together for public appearances. It screams frazzled, WOHM who stopped at WHBM on the way home to buy something for an event.

There is nothing about that picture that screams frazzled.

The issue is that she looks like she's doing the bare minimum to look presentable at an event. She's SLOTUS and her job right now is to represent the US at events...and dinner with foreign royalty, even at their house, is an official event.

For me, the frazzled part is something I can relate to. I worked all day, kids will be all over me when I get home and sitter doesn't arrive for another hour, but oh no the dress I was going to wear to this dinner for DH's work is at the dry cleaners. So let me stop at the mall and get the first reasonable thing that fits. If I'm lucky, I will have time to shower, blow dry my hair, and do 5 min of makeup. That's what she looks like, but that isn't her life anymore.

I really have no idea why some of you go on creating these inner lives for these women. Also I thought you understand what the phrase “screams frazzled” means.

+100
I think they must be bereft of their own inner life and so have to project fantasies onto other women. It's simultaneously entertaining and pathetic. Usha looks the polar opposite of "frazzled" here.

I think Usha is particularly interesting for the posters on this forum because until a couple of years ago she had a life which was very reminiscent of many of the posters here. She’s relatable in a way that former “model” Melania and midwestern governor’s wife Karen Pence are not. So I think some posters here are thinking “hey, I could do much better than this if someone plucked mefrom my early 40s busy lawyer with small kids life into being SLOTUS with a virtually unlimited fashion budget all of a sudden.”

For a fashion thread, she’s a more relatable paper doll than other prior FLOTUSes and SLOTUSes so people do project what they would be wearing on her.

It is simpler than that- she is attractive and rich but chooses to look “meh” in front of the entire world. It’s a head scratcher to anyone who tries to look good on even a semi-regular basis.

Thanks for proving that the pp actually can't read minds as she assumes!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another Royalty/US crossover - This time with that man, Usha, and the Crown Prince and Princess of Jordan. Usha looks... fine. Appropriate. She is being out-fashioned by Rajwa.

I am her biggest hater but this is...fine

It's fine. But it adds more fuel to my theory that Usha is just really depressed and barely able to pull it together for public appearances. It screams frazzled, WOHM who stopped at WHBM on the way home to buy something for an event.

There is nothing about that picture that screams frazzled.

The issue is that she looks like she's doing the bare minimum to look presentable at an event. She's SLOTUS and her job right now is to represent the US at events...and dinner with foreign royalty, even at their house, is an official event.

For me, the frazzled part is something I can relate to. I worked all day, kids will be all over me when I get home and sitter doesn't arrive for another hour, but oh no the dress I was going to wear to this dinner for DH's work is at the dry cleaners. So let me stop at the mall and get the first reasonable thing that fits. If I'm lucky, I will have time to shower, blow dry my hair, and do 5 min of makeup. That's what she looks like, but that isn't her life anymore.

I really have no idea why some of you go on creating these inner lives for these women. Also I thought you understand what the phrase “screams frazzled” means.

+100
I think they must be bereft of their own inner life and so have to project fantasies onto other women. It's simultaneously entertaining and pathetic. Usha looks the polar opposite of "frazzled" here.

I think Usha is particularly interesting for the posters on this forum because until a couple of years ago she had a life which was very reminiscent of many of the posters here. She’s relatable in a way that former “model” Melania and midwestern governor’s wife Karen Pence are not. So I think some posters here are thinking “hey, I could do much better than this if someone plucked mefrom my early 40s busy lawyer with small kids life into being SLOTUS with a virtually unlimited fashion budget all of a sudden.”

For a fashion thread, she’s a more relatable paper doll than other prior FLOTUSes and SLOTUSes so people do project what they would be wearing on her.

Posters can speak for themselves. Don't need to guess what they are thinking.

Not the PP, but posters have been speaking for themselves, and we are reacting to what they have been saying. Try to follow along.

You are creating fan fiction of what you think they are thinking.

Also why react to other's free speech?

Because we also have free speech? What a silly question. And the only people creating fan fiction are those writing long, detailed posts about what they fantasize the lives of these women must be like. Lots of projection going on, as another poster pointed out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another Royalty/US crossover - This time with that man, Usha, and the Crown Prince and Princess of Jordan. Usha looks... fine. Appropriate. She is being out-fashioned by Rajwa.

I am her biggest hater but this is...fine

It's fine. But it adds more fuel to my theory that Usha is just really depressed and barely able to pull it together for public appearances. It screams frazzled, WOHM who stopped at WHBM on the way home to buy something for an event.

There is nothing about that picture that screams frazzled.

The issue is that she looks like she's doing the bare minimum to look presentable at an event. She's SLOTUS and her job right now is to represent the US at events...and dinner with foreign royalty, even at their house, is an official event.

For me, the frazzled part is something I can relate to. I worked all day, kids will be all over me when I get home and sitter doesn't arrive for another hour, but oh no the dress I was going to wear to this dinner for DH's work is at the dry cleaners. So let me stop at the mall and get the first reasonable thing that fits. If I'm lucky, I will have time to shower, blow dry my hair, and do 5 min of makeup. That's what she looks like, but that isn't her life anymore.

I really have no idea why some of you go on creating these inner lives for these women. Also I thought you understand what the phrase “screams frazzled” means.

+100
I think they must be bereft of their own inner life and so have to project fantasies onto other women. It's simultaneously entertaining and pathetic. Usha looks the polar opposite of "frazzled" here.

I think Usha is particularly interesting for the posters on this forum because until a couple of years ago she had a life which was very reminiscent of many of the posters here. She’s relatable in a way that former “model” Melania and midwestern governor’s wife Karen Pence are not. So I think some posters here are thinking “hey, I could do much better than this if someone plucked mefrom my early 40s busy lawyer with small kids life into being SLOTUS with a virtually unlimited fashion budget all of a sudden.”

For a fashion thread, she’s a more relatable paper doll than other prior FLOTUSes and SLOTUSes so people do project what they would be wearing on her.

It is simpler than that- she is attractive and rich but chooses to look “meh” in front of the entire world. It’s a head scratcher to anyone who tries to look good on even a semi-regular basis.

Thanks for proving that the pp actually can't read minds as she assumes!

Great point - guess you agree that you can't read Usha Vance's mind or Melania Trump's. Glad we all agree!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another Royalty/US crossover - This time with that man, Usha, and the Crown Prince and Princess of Jordan. Usha looks... fine. Appropriate. She is being out-fashioned by Rajwa.

I am her biggest hater but this is...fine

It's fine. But it adds more fuel to my theory that Usha is just really depressed and barely able to pull it together for public appearances. It screams frazzled, WOHM who stopped at WHBM on the way home to buy something for an event.

There is nothing about that picture that screams frazzled.

The issue is that she looks like she's doing the bare minimum to look presentable at an event. She's SLOTUS and her job right now is to represent the US at events...and dinner with foreign royalty, even at their house, is an official event.

For me, the frazzled part is something I can relate to. I worked all day, kids will be all over me when I get home and sitter doesn't arrive for another hour, but oh no the dress I was going to wear to this dinner for DH's work is at the dry cleaners. So let me stop at the mall and get the first reasonable thing that fits. If I'm lucky, I will have time to shower, blow dry my hair, and do 5 min of makeup. That's what she looks like, but that isn't her life anymore.

I really have no idea why some of you go on creating these inner lives for these women. Also I thought you understand what the phrase “screams frazzled” means.

+100
I think they must be bereft of their own inner life and so have to project fantasies onto other women. It's simultaneously entertaining and pathetic. Usha looks the polar opposite of "frazzled" here.

I think Usha is particularly interesting for the posters on this forum because until a couple of years ago she had a life which was very reminiscent of many of the posters here. She’s relatable in a way that former “model” Melania and midwestern governor’s wife Karen Pence are not. So I think some posters here are thinking “hey, I could do much better than this if someone plucked mefrom my early 40s busy lawyer with small kids life into being SLOTUS with a virtually unlimited fashion budget all of a sudden.”

For a fashion thread, she’s a more relatable paper doll than other prior FLOTUSes and SLOTUSes so people do project what they would be wearing on her.

Posters can speak for themselves. Don't need to guess what they are thinking.

I'm the PP who posted the frazzled mom scenario. PP is effectively rephrasing exactly what I said but with more context. You seem too dense to understand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another Royalty/US crossover - This time with that man, Usha, and the Crown Prince and Princess of Jordan. Usha looks... fine. Appropriate. She is being out-fashioned by Rajwa.

I am her biggest hater but this is...fine

It's fine. But it adds more fuel to my theory that Usha is just really depressed and barely able to pull it together for public appearances. It screams frazzled, WOHM who stopped at WHBM on the way home to buy something for an event.

There is nothing about that picture that screams frazzled.

The issue is that she looks like she's doing the bare minimum to look presentable at an event. She's SLOTUS and her job right now is to represent the US at events...and dinner with foreign royalty, even at their house, is an official event.

For me, the frazzled part is something I can relate to. I worked all day, kids will be all over me when I get home and sitter doesn't arrive for another hour, but oh no the dress I was going to wear to this dinner for DH's work is at the dry cleaners. So let me stop at the mall and get the first reasonable thing that fits. If I'm lucky, I will have time to shower, blow dry my hair, and do 5 min of makeup. That's what she looks like, but that isn't her life anymore.

I really have no idea why some of you go on creating these inner lives for these women. Also I thought you understand what the phrase “screams frazzled” means.

+100
I think they must be bereft of their own inner life and so have to project fantasies onto other women. It's simultaneously entertaining and pathetic. Usha looks the polar opposite of "frazzled" here.

I think Usha is particularly interesting for the posters on this forum because until a couple of years ago she had a life which was very reminiscent of many of the posters here. She’s relatable in a way that former “model” Melania and midwestern governor’s wife Karen Pence are not. So I think some posters here are thinking “hey, I could do much better than this if someone plucked mefrom my early 40s busy lawyer with small kids life into being SLOTUS with a virtually unlimited fashion budget all of a sudden.”

For a fashion thread, she’s a more relatable paper doll than other prior FLOTUSes and SLOTUSes so people do project what they would be wearing on her.

It is simpler than that- she is attractive and rich but chooses to look “meh” in front of the entire world. It’s a head scratcher to anyone who tries to look good on even a semi-regular basis.

Thanks for proving that the pp actually can't read minds as she assumes!

Great point - guess you agree that you can't read Usha Vance's mind or Melania Trump's. Glad we all agree!

No one is attempting to read Usha's mind. People are saying she dresses and grooms like she's living a very different life than she's living. No one can figure out why she's doing that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another angle

Not to be nasty but it's amazing how much better looking even our trashiest rich family is compared to the British royals. Kate is an outlier; most British women are not that beautiful. Meghan is also beautiful but they can't claim her, she's ours. Hell, even Diana had American grandparents.

Just goes to show, even when we're down and out (and we're down bad right now) at least we aren't British?

You are looking at generations of inbreds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another Royalty/US crossover - This time with that man, Usha, and the Crown Prince and Princess of Jordan. Usha looks... fine. Appropriate. She is being out-fashioned by Rajwa.

I am her biggest hater but this is...fine

It's fine. But it adds more fuel to my theory that Usha is just really depressed and barely able to pull it together for public appearances. It screams frazzled, WOHM who stopped at WHBM on the way home to buy something for an event.

There is nothing about that picture that screams frazzled.

The issue is that she looks like she's doing the bare minimum to look presentable at an event. She's SLOTUS and her job right now is to represent the US at events...and dinner with foreign royalty, even at their house, is an official event.

For me, the frazzled part is something I can relate to. I worked all day, kids will be all over me when I get home and sitter doesn't arrive for another hour, but oh no the dress I was going to wear to this dinner for DH's work is at the dry cleaners. So let me stop at the mall and get the first reasonable thing that fits. If I'm lucky, I will have time to shower, blow dry my hair, and do 5 min of makeup. That's what she looks like, but that isn't her life anymore.

I really have no idea why some of you go on creating these inner lives for these women. Also I thought you understand what the phrase “screams frazzled” means.

+100
I think they must be bereft of their own inner life and so have to project fantasies onto other women. It's simultaneously entertaining and pathetic. Usha looks the polar opposite of "frazzled" here.

I think Usha is particularly interesting for the posters on this forum because until a couple of years ago she had a life which was very reminiscent of many of the posters here. She’s relatable in a way that former “model” Melania and midwestern governor’s wife Karen Pence are not. So I think some posters here are thinking “hey, I could do much better than this if someone plucked mefrom my early 40s busy lawyer with small kids life into being SLOTUS with a virtually unlimited fashion budget all of a sudden.”

For a fashion thread, she’s a more relatable paper doll than other prior FLOTUSes and SLOTUSes so people do project what they would be wearing on her.

It is simpler than that- she is attractive and rich but chooses to look “meh” in front of the entire world. It’s a head scratcher to anyone who tries to look good on even a semi-regular basis.

Thanks for proving that the pp actually can't read minds as she assumes!

Great point - guess you agree that you can't read Usha Vance's mind or Melania Trump's. Glad we all agree!

What are you going on about? Speculating about these terrible people is one of the joys of this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another Royalty/US crossover - This time with that man, Usha, and the Crown Prince and Princess of Jordan. Usha looks... fine. Appropriate. She is being out-fashioned by Rajwa.

I am her biggest hater but this is...fine

The top looks like a shell (not a seashell but the kind of base layer of clothing called a "shell"), looks like it needs a blazer, cardigan, wrap, scarf or something to complete the look.

No, it's blissfully simple.

Simple would have been a sleeveless sweater or sleeveless silk knit top with an interesting neckline. Not a shell in woven polyester that is obviously meant to be worn under something.

I bet you're the poster who always advocates "nice slacks, a lovely silk scarf, and a spritz of perfume" when people ask for clothing advice. Her top is obviously silk, not polyester.

No, it is not obviously silk, it doesn't look like silk (and yes different fabrics have different looks, another example, an acrylic sweater does not look wool).

Your "I bet" doesn't make any sense...when you are prone to put words in people's mouths, of course you think you know what they will say in random circumstances

Sorry, her top was definitely silk. But thanks for the lecture about different fabrics looking different, I had no idea!

NP, but I would say questionable. I can see her bra through it on one side, which doesn’t normally happen with a silk shell and is most unfortunate. You would think they would photoshop that out?