Student Achievement at FCPS Title I Schools

[Anonymous]

How do medium to high SES students at FCPS Title I schools perform compared to middle to high SES students at non-Title I FCPS schools? Is there really any difference in their scores on various state and national tests? If there is, is there a inflection point where scores begin to diverge significantly (eg, 3rd grade)? In some ways Title I schools offer what many parents at all SES levels want (eg, small class sizes). FWIW my DC are at a Title I school and lately there seems to be an uptick in people planning to pull their kids from the school.

[Anonymous]

My kids used to attend a title 1 school with approx. 60% F&R meals. Poverty at this school more than doubled in the last several years following a boundary change. I noticed many changes including the discontinuation of meaningful homework and enrichment. When asked, my kids said they were reading to others for language arts class. Hardly ever received feedback on the little work I saw come home. Yes, there are smaller class sizes but when 50-60% of the class is behind and the pressure is on to pass the SOLs is extreme, I question the amount of time spent with those who are working above grade level. One classroom can have students who are working at several different grade levels, particularly in the upper grades. Many students new to schooling may be just joining these classes. Specialists are constantly working to aid these students and yet less than half pass the exams. So then the next year more must be done, somehow...to close the achievement gap.

I compared SOL scores between kids of our demographic category to kids in other (low poverty non-AAP) schools of the same category and found that our school's scores were at least 10 -20 points lower. I think FCPS even commissioned their own "tipping" point study and found that at 20% poverty is when you start to see a reduction in scores across the board. I also checked out the teacher survey of the school and it wasn't that great.

So my advice would be to talk to families, visit the school, check out the DOE SOL scores and the teacher survey.

[Anonymous]

One of the good things about great schools is that you can view scores by category.

This allowed me to see that non-economically disadvantaged kids at my DS's #5 school (not title one but close), score almost exactly as well as the #9 school which was our other choice.

Now of course we all know test scores aren't everything but it did help me decide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kids used to attend a title 1 school with approx. 60% F&R meals. Poverty at this school more than doubled in the last several years following a boundary change. I noticed many changes including the discontinuation of meaningful homework and enrichment. When asked, my kids said they were reading to others for language arts class. Hardly ever received feedback on the little work I saw come home. Yes, there are smaller class sizes but when 50-60% of the class is behind and the pressure is on to pass the SOLs is extreme, I question the amount of time spent with those who are working above grade level. One classroom can have students who are working at several different grade levels, particularly in the upper grades. Many students new to schooling may be just joining these classes. Specialists are constantly working to aid these students and yet less than half pass the exams. So then the next year more must be done, somehow...to close the achievement gap.

I compared SOL scores between kids of our demographic category to kids in other (low poverty non-AAP) schools of the same category and found that our school's scores were at least 10 -20 points lower. I think FCPS even commissioned their own "tipping" point study and found that at 20% poverty is when you start to see a reduction in scores across the board. I also checked out the teacher survey of the school and it wasn't that great.

So my advice would be to talk to families, visit the school, check out the DOE SOL scores and the teacher survey.

You mean schools with greater than 20% of children in poverty tend to see reduction in scores across the board?

[Anonymous]

the tipping point is actually 40%
Board testimony from 2015 said so

[Anonymous]

googled first hit is from 2013
http://www.fcps.edu/pla/ope/docs/fcps_tipping-point.pdf

[Anonymous]

we are both right points at 20 and 40

And, almost all schools with poverty levels of 45 percent or higher were unable to reach expected pass
rate levels in reading or math. Follow-up statistical analyses found statistical evidence that two tipping
points exist in FCPS. The reading data provided the most consistent findings as it indicated two tipping
points occurring at 20 and 40-45 percent school-level poverty. Thus, FCPS schools with greater than 20
percent poverty are much less likely to meet performance expectations than those with less than 20
percent poverty. And, once poverty levels at a school reach 40 percent or more, FCPS schools are unlikely
to meet expectations for school performance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids used to attend a title 1 school with approx. 60% F&R meals. Poverty at this school more than doubled in the last several years following a boundary change. I noticed many changes including the discontinuation of meaningful homework and enrichment. When asked, my kids said they were reading to others for language arts class. Hardly ever received feedback on the little work I saw come home. Yes, there are smaller class sizes but when 50-60% of the class is behind and the pressure is on to pass the SOLs is extreme, I question the amount of time spent with those who are working above grade level. One classroom can have students who are working at several different grade levels, particularly in the upper grades. Many students new to schooling may be just joining these classes. Specialists are constantly working to aid these students and yet less than half pass the exams. So then the next year more must be done, somehow...to close the achievement gap.

I compared SOL scores between kids of our demographic category to kids in other (low poverty non-AAP) schools of the same category and found that our school's scores were at least 10 -20 points lower. I think FCPS even commissioned their own "tipping" point study and found that at 20% poverty is when you start to see a reduction in scores across the board. I also checked out the teacher survey of the school and it wasn't that great.

So my advice would be to talk to families, visit the school, check out the DOE SOL scores and the teacher survey.

You mean schools with greater than 20% of children in poverty tend to see reduction in scores across the board?

OP here -- As I said, my DC are at a Title I school. I'm wondering if concerns of families who've left, are leaving and supposedly planning to leave revolves around a perception or a demonstrable effect on scores. The above PP's question is essentially what I'm wondering. If the answer is yes, does the gap between mid- to high-SES at Title I and non-Title widen by increasing grade?

[Anonymous]

OP again following up on latest comments -- all the data seems to be about aggregate student scores at Title I schools or scores of low-SES students. Where is the data on the performance on mid- to high-SES students at Title I schools? Are a) all the Title student scores dropping, or b) are the low-SES students at Title I falling so far behind after the 20%/40% tipping point, but the mid- to high SES student scores still comparable to students at non-Title I schools? If b, then the issue is with perception.

BTW Our Title I has some great teachers!

Maybe I'm just tired, and some did point me to the answer.

[Anonymous]

The main difference I have seen is the availability of the advanced or compacted math at the Title I schools. This impacts the level of math available to the student when they hit middle school and beyond.

[Anonymous]

I'd pull your kid and put him or her in private. It's just too risky at a Title I school or any school with a FARMs rate north of 20 percent - really, even a school north of 10 percent makes me nervous. Sure, your child COULD hypothetically succeed despite the poverty that surrounds him, but he will stand a much, much better chance at a school without the FARMs kids soaking up all the oxygen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'd pull your kid and put him or her in private. It's just too risky at a Title I school or any school with a FARMs rate north of 20 percent - really, even a school north of 10 percent makes me nervous. Sure, your child COULD hypothetically succeed despite the poverty that surrounds him, but he will stand a much, much better chance at a school without the FARMs kids soaking up all the oxygen.

You do know that the average FARMS rate in FCPS is about 27% for this school year, right?

You also do know that a lot of McLean area schools have FARMS rates of about 5%, right?

What this means is that FCPS average FARMS rates, when you remove McLean schools, are like 35% or so.

So in your mind, no one should attend FCPS schools unless they are the McLean schools? OK...

[Anonymous]

Yes people want what is best for their kids. See all the posts on DCUM. See why higher housing prices are directly correlated to lower farms rates. See why people are obsessed with boundary exceptions and AAP etc and school redistricting etc.

Now pp I am more of a realist, I think that my children will do fine at any school in FCPS but I understand concerns that other parents have.

[Anonymous]

To OP: Anecdotally speaking, my kids attended high FARMs elementary and middle schools (>60%). They did very well, are taking all honors classes, and will stick with their IB schools. The greatest indicator of success is parental involvement. You sound like an involved parent, so it's likely your kid(s) will be just fine at any FCPS school. Don't listen to the pearl clutchers. You've said the teachers have been great. Your experience has been great. if others are leaving because they haven't had a great experience, then you already disagree with their perception, so why would you follow their lead now?

To everyone else: If you're so concerned about tipping points, do you support changing boundaries to spread FARMs students more equitably across schools or is your thought that as long as you can get your kids out of the supposedly-horrible schools, that's all that matters to you?

[Anonymous]

I teach at a Title One school with a FARMS rate around 95% or do. One of my colleagues has her child in our school which worked out fine in the lower grades but she sent her to her home school after 3rd grade. That was when she started noticing her DD's ideas about school and college change. She started saying that she hoped she finished HS and college was for rich kids. A lot of the girls' dreams were to become mothers and finish HS.