ECNL moving to school year not calendar

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Lots of talk about Q3's here. But if you look at the state requirements to start school DC and Virginia are turns 5 by Sept 30 and DC Sept. 1. All of these would lean to 9/1 (Q4) not 8/1.

Minimum age requirements, not maximum. You are extrapolating the max is one year from min date, but parents are not required to send their 4-year olds to kindergarten just because they met the minimum.

Sure but isn't that the definition of holding your child back, sometimes with good reason based on maturity and other factors. What other metric is better?

Don't argue with repeater parents

Just ignore them like always.

Sorry for your loss.

Stop embarrassing yourself

Sore losing is embarrassing. Sincerely sorry for your loss.

I think you’re reading too much into people’s intentions. I am sure there are some people genuinely not happy with the change, but the fact you see it as winning and losing is an awful reflection on you. I’d bet a cheeseburger that your kid looks at you when they play don’t they?

Not even close.

Agree, leave the kids out of it. They are not cheaters and they are not repeaters. They are kids playing soccer mostly told where to play by the leagues, teams, coaches and parents.

Heck, you shouldn't even be angry at parents that want to stand up for their kids. They don't set the rules.

All anger of birth year going to school year should be directed at youth soccer officials calling the shots, that's it.

All the moronic cheap shots at trapped not existing, cheaters, etc. is pathetic.

When you read all the anger directed at people supporting school year from people disagreeing with the change, all you can see is sore losing.

You make my point. You’re assuming anger instead of opinion.

First, I’ve never seen anyone say playing down is cheating. Nor have I seen anyone say advocating for change that is personally beneficial is cheating. Not sure where you saw that in this thread. Maybe it’s there…there are a lot of posts…but it hasn’t been a common one.

Second, the trapped player phenomenon is definately debatable. If there was some data that Q3/Q4 ECNL players were recruited less often, maybe it would have legs. But that has not been the case with the trapped debate, it’s all about their team graduating earlier, and the trapped player being a step-kid on a team. If the “proof” of recruiting impact is opinion, like “my daughter was destined for UNC, but now she is playing for JMU if not for her being trapped,” I’d tend to put that in the opinion not facts basket. The 8th grade trap does not exist, that’s not debatable. The 8th grade “trap is a weird FOMO thing…the kid isn’t missing high level play, they’re missing “fun time” with HS soccer - the equivalent of off-season indoor with friends. To take a subject that is debatable and assume that people’s opinions are anger directed at you is bit..extra?

Definately been some nastiness and ugly ego (on their children’s behalf) in this thread. And plenty of dumbdumbs thinking the age cut-off makes or breaks their kids soccer future. But anger at other kids or groups of kids I don’t think is common in this thread.

My 2 cents? You need to take a break from this thread if you’re taking everything as a personal attack.

Sorry for your loss.

😂 ECNL Hat lady? Is that you?

Don't worry when things get tough they'll try to hold their kid back for wins.

Cheater + Repeater.

You'll see them again.

Sorry for your loss.

Stop embarrassing yourself

Just don’t engage, it’s so beyond passive aggressive. They need to take a break from the thread, but they’re emotionally invested in conflict.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Its cute to watch BY hopefuls continue to hold out hope that teams won't change. 'the better teams are fine, they are at the top already'. You really have no idea what's coming do you? WHOLESALE change.

We are in a VERY competitive area and the best teams in the nation are all here. And the best clubs want to stay that way. AT EVERY AGE GROUP.

The 2010-2012 teams (top in the nation) are already making moves. Their teams are made up of several Q3/Q4 kids. Use your imagination.... When one club drops their best 6 2011 players down to 2012 and takes that team from #30 to #1 in the country you're really so naive to think the other clubs are gonna shrug their shoulders and give up on their 2012 ranking?

If you believe that I have bridge in Brooklyn up for sale I'd love to discuss.

That's a bit excessive. Most top teams don't have 6 Q3/Q4 kids in total, not to say their best 6 players are all Q3/Q4. Likely impact is 2-3 solid starters/ impact subs from top team, 4-5 top RL players as competitive squad options and 3-4 kids from outside the club. Obviously a lot to be nervous about for borderline starters and bubble players.

RLs bumping up will be a rare sight. You just can’t make up the delta in dedication and match experience between RL and NL.

In theory there is supposed to be fluidity in the ECNL “pool” for clubs - but it isn’t fluid after u13 because the amount of time on ball is significantly different between RL and NL

Glad they are testing your theory because it is going to be interesting to watch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Its cute to watch BY hopefuls continue to hold out hope that teams won't change. 'the better teams are fine, they are at the top already'. You really have no idea what's coming do you? WHOLESALE change.

We are in a VERY competitive area and the best teams in the nation are all here. And the best clubs want to stay that way. AT EVERY AGE GROUP.

The 2010-2012 teams (top in the nation) are already making moves. Their teams are made up of several Q3/Q4 kids. Use your imagination.... When one club drops their best 6 2011 players down to 2012 and takes that team from #30 to #1 in the country you're really so naive to think the other clubs are gonna shrug their shoulders and give up on their 2012 ranking?

If you believe that I have bridge in Brooklyn up for sale I'd love to discuss.

That's a bit excessive. Most top teams don't have 6 Q3/Q4 kids in total, not to say their best 6 players are all Q3/Q4. Likely impact is 2-3 solid starters/ impact subs from top team, 4-5 top RL players as competitive squad options and 3-4 kids from outside the club. Obviously a lot to be nervous about for borderline starters and bubble players.

RLs bumping up will be a rare sight. You just can’t make up the delta in dedication and match experience between RL and NL.

In theory there is supposed to be fluidity in the ECNL “pool” for clubs - but it isn’t fluid after u13 because the amount of time on ball is significantly different between RL and NL

Glad they are testing your theory because it is going to be interesting to watch.

For sure! And if I’m wrong, that’s great tbh!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:ECNL outside of the podcast has never posted or said anything is happening. Has anyone seen a post from ECNL/US Club regarding the information USSF put out?

ECNL, top brass, have been the ones putting this change in motion. Mike Culina former ECNL coach, and incoming CEO of US Club is the chair of the committee that shipped this turf of a mush-mouthed decision from USSF. The fact they’ve tried to quietly pull this change off while keeping their clubs, coaches, parents and players in the dark is pretty damning.

I don’t care one way or the other about the change - but the way this was handled was pretty grotesque by ECNL. And it sucks that my kid has to stick through ECNL to keep her YNT spot, if I had it my way, we’d be heading to Europe instead, in that ticked off with ECNL’s poor player / customer care.

There's a few GA teams worth joining. Probably not where you live. But it's nice not having to deal with the ECNL cult.

I agree with everything you've said. I think most people would as well if they knew more. Unfortunately most don't figure it out until they're in too deep and just want it to be over with.

What are some examples of things that people figure out too late with ECNL? All of the traveling/showcases? How is that different than GA? Genuinely curious as a parent of a daughter just starting her journey.

I would say the biggest thing they don't tell you is locally ECNL is kickball for wins. Nationally kickball doesn't work which is why NVA always losses when we play against Socal and Texas.

Are any of the ecnl girls coaches in DMV not playing kickball for wins? U13 in particular. Anyone who at least tries not to?

I was excited this year because my daughter’s pre-ecnl coach said, although it would be ugly for a while, they were not going to play kickball. To his credit, the keeper never punts the ball and the team always builds out from the back, but once they get it past the halfway line their sole objective is getting it to one of their very athletic forwards and they expect her to run past the defenders. Might not be kickball, but it’s not possession oriented.

My sense always has been most top clubs and teams can build out of the back BUT don't if their under too much pressure from a team that's perhaps better athletically or tactically, resulting in a more direct strategy, in trying to win or stay in the match, especially if you have a goalkeeper who can punt. That's where a team's placement in right league is so critical, especially for ages 10 or 11, because you probably want a bit of both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Its cute to watch BY hopefuls continue to hold out hope that teams won't change. 'the better teams are fine, they are at the top already'. You really have no idea what's coming do you? WHOLESALE change.

We are in a VERY competitive area and the best teams in the nation are all here. And the best clubs want to stay that way. AT EVERY AGE GROUP.

The 2010-2012 teams (top in the nation) are already making moves. Their teams are made up of several Q3/Q4 kids. Use your imagination.... When one club drops their best 6 2011 players down to 2012 and takes that team from #30 to #1 in the country you're really so naive to think the other clubs are gonna shrug their shoulders and give up on their 2012 ranking?

If you believe that I have bridge in Brooklyn up for sale I'd love to discuss.

Until the unfortunate reality hits that the difference of a few months in age alone does’t change anything to get on some of these teams and talent actually matters.

Good point. Lets keep letting your kid play a grade down so they can feel good about their participation trophy and believe they're getting a scholarship. The minute my daughter is allowed on the field with her classmates it'll be clear how much a few months matters. Depending on age there aren't as many Q4 kids but they are absolutely going to obsolete your child. Talent does matter, your right, lol.

There are actually some teams with no trapped players so yes, talent and competitive experience, rather than age, is always going to matter more than many realize.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Its cute to watch BY hopefuls continue to hold out hope that teams won't change. 'the better teams are fine, they are at the top already'. You really have no idea what's coming do you? WHOLESALE change.

We are in a VERY competitive area and the best teams in the nation are all here. And the best clubs want to stay that way. AT EVERY AGE GROUP.

The 2010-2012 teams (top in the nation) are already making moves. Their teams are made up of several Q3/Q4 kids. Use your imagination.... When one club drops their best 6 2011 players down to 2012 and takes that team from #30 to #1 in the country you're really so naive to think the other clubs are gonna shrug their shoulders and give up on their 2012 ranking?

If you believe that I have bridge in Brooklyn up for sale I'd love to discuss.

Until the unfortunate reality hits that the difference of a few months in age alone does’t change anything to get on some of these teams and talent actually matters.

Good point. Lets keep letting your kid play a grade down so they can feel good about their participation trophy and believe they're getting a scholarship. The minute my daughter is allowed on the field with her classmates it'll be clear how much a few months matters. Depending on age there aren't as many Q4 kids but they are absolutely going to obsolete your child. Talent does matter, your right, lol.

There are actually some teams with no trapped players so yes, talent and competitive experience, rather than age, is always going to matter more than many realize.

If they have no trapped players, then the team is dominated by older players making age matter a lot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Its cute to watch BY hopefuls continue to hold out hope that teams won't change. 'the better teams are fine, they are at the top already'. You really have no idea what's coming do you? WHOLESALE change.

We are in a VERY competitive area and the best teams in the nation are all here. And the best clubs want to stay that way. AT EVERY AGE GROUP.

The 2010-2012 teams (top in the nation) are already making moves. Their teams are made up of several Q3/Q4 kids. Use your imagination.... When one club drops their best 6 2011 players down to 2012 and takes that team from #30 to #1 in the country you're really so naive to think the other clubs are gonna shrug their shoulders and give up on their 2012 ranking?

If you believe that I have bridge in Brooklyn up for sale I'd love to discuss.

Until the unfortunate reality hits that the difference of a few months in age alone does’t change anything to get on some of these teams and talent actually matters.

Good point. Lets keep letting your kid play a grade down so they can feel good about their participation trophy and believe they're getting a scholarship. The minute my daughter is allowed on the field with her classmates it'll be clear how much a few months matters. Depending on age there aren't as many Q4 kids but they are absolutely going to obsolete your child. Talent does matter, your right, lol.

There are actually some teams with no trapped players so yes, talent and competitive experience, rather than age, is always going to matter more than many realize.

If they have no trapped players, then the team is dominated by older players making age matter a lot.

I've seen it where some clubs have essentially/consistently put most trapped players on the B teams (as long as they've had B teams). What I wonder at those clubs where those B team players might fit with a CY to SY switch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Its cute to watch BY hopefuls continue to hold out hope that teams won't change. 'the better teams are fine, they are at the top already'. You really have no idea what's coming do you? WHOLESALE change.

We are in a VERY competitive area and the best teams in the nation are all here. And the best clubs want to stay that way. AT EVERY AGE GROUP.

The 2010-2012 teams (top in the nation) are already making moves. Their teams are made up of several Q3/Q4 kids. Use your imagination.... When one club drops their best 6 2011 players down to 2012 and takes that team from #30 to #1 in the country you're really so naive to think the other clubs are gonna shrug their shoulders and give up on their 2012 ranking?

If you believe that I have bridge in Brooklyn up for sale I'd love to discuss.

Until the unfortunate reality hits that the difference of a few months in age alone does’t change anything to get on some of these teams and talent actually matters.

Good point. Lets keep letting your kid play a grade down so they can feel good about their participation trophy and believe they're getting a scholarship. The minute my daughter is allowed on the field with her classmates it'll be clear how much a few months matters. Depending on age there aren't as many Q4 kids but they are absolutely going to obsolete your child. Talent does matter, your right, lol.

There are actually some teams with no trapped players so yes, talent and competitive experience, rather than age, is always going to matter more than many realize.

🤣🤣🤣what a team with no trapped players means they all skew to the older age of age bracket. That's the opposite of claiming its talent and not age.

[Anonymous]

US soccer cannot stop failing. It's impressive actually how poor soccer is run in this country, top to bottom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Its cute to watch BY hopefuls continue to hold out hope that teams won't change. 'the better teams are fine, they are at the top already'. You really have no idea what's coming do you? WHOLESALE change.

We are in a VERY competitive area and the best teams in the nation are all here. And the best clubs want to stay that way. AT EVERY AGE GROUP.

The 2010-2012 teams (top in the nation) are already making moves. Their teams are made up of several Q3/Q4 kids. Use your imagination.... When one club drops their best 6 2011 players down to 2012 and takes that team from #30 to #1 in the country you're really so naive to think the other clubs are gonna shrug their shoulders and give up on their 2012 ranking?

If you believe that I have bridge in Brooklyn up for sale I'd love to discuss.

Until the unfortunate reality hits that the difference of a few months in age alone does’t change anything to get on some of these teams and talent actually matters.

Good point. Lets keep letting your kid play a grade down so they can feel good about their participation trophy and believe they're getting a scholarship. The minute my daughter is allowed on the field with her classmates it'll be clear how much a few months matters. Depending on age there aren't as many Q4 kids but they are absolutely going to obsolete your child. Talent does matter, your right, lol.

There are actually some teams with no trapped players so yes, talent and competitive experience, rather than age, is always going to matter more than many realize.

If they have no trapped players, then the team is dominated by older players making age matter a lot.

I've seen it where some clubs have essentially/consistently put most trapped players on the B teams (as long as they've had B teams). What I wonder at those clubs where those B team players might fit with a CY to SY switch.

There are literally high level ECNL tryouts where the first thing the coach does is split the group up by birthdate. Seen it twice.

[Anonymous]

So we thinking next year most top level teams will be adjusting rosters to match the eventual school age change? When will ECNL announce their plans and will MLS/GA soon follow? They all have to do the same thing, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of talk about Q3's here. But if you look at the state requirements to start school DC and Virginia are turns 5 by Sept 30 and DC Sept. 1. All of these would lean to 9/1 (Q4) not 8/1.

Minimum age requirements, not maximum. You are extrapolating the max is one year from min date, but parents are not required to send their 4-year olds to kindergarten just because they met the minimum.

Sure but isn't that the definition of holding your child back, sometimes with good reason based on maturity and other factors. What other metric is better?

Don't argue with repeater parents

Just ignore them like always.

Sorry for your loss.

Stop embarrassing yourself

Sore losing is embarrassing. Sincerely sorry for your loss.

I think you’re reading too much into people’s intentions. I am sure there are some people genuinely not happy with the change, but the fact you see it as winning and losing is an awful reflection on you. I’d bet a cheeseburger that your kid looks at you when they play don’t they?

Not even close.

Agree, leave the kids out of it. They are not cheaters and they are not repeaters. They are kids playing soccer mostly told where to play by the leagues, teams, coaches and parents.

Heck, you shouldn't even be angry at parents that want to stand up for their kids. They don't set the rules.

All anger of birth year going to school year should be directed at youth soccer officials calling the shots, that's it.

All the moronic cheap shots at trapped not existing, cheaters, etc. is pathetic.

When you read all the anger directed at people supporting school year from people disagreeing with the change, all you can see is sore losing.

You make my point. You’re assuming anger instead of opinion.

First, I’ve never seen anyone say playing down is cheating. Nor have I seen anyone say advocating for change that is personally beneficial is cheating. Not sure where you saw that in this thread. Maybe it’s there…there are a lot of posts…but it hasn’t been a common one.

Second, the trapped player phenomenon is definately debatable. If there was some data that Q3/Q4 ECNL players were recruited less often, maybe it would have legs. But that has not been the case with the trapped debate, it’s all about their team graduating earlier, and the trapped player being a step-kid on a team. If the “proof” of recruiting impact is opinion, like “my daughter was destined for UNC, but now she is playing for JMU if not for her being trapped,” I’d tend to put that in the opinion not facts basket. The 8th grade trap does not exist, that’s not debatable. The 8th grade “trap is a weird FOMO thing…the kid isn’t missing high level play, they’re missing “fun time” with HS soccer - the equivalent of off-season indoor with friends. To take a subject that is debatable and assume that people’s opinions are anger directed at you is bit..extra?

Definately been some nastiness and ugly ego (on their children’s behalf) in this thread. And plenty of dumbdumbs thinking the age cut-off makes or breaks their kids soccer future. But anger at other kids or groups of kids I don’t think is common in this thread.

My 2 cents? You need to take a break from this thread if you’re taking everything as a personal attack.

The confidently ignorant have returned. If you are going to definitely be wrong, you should definitely learn how to spell. And do some basic research please. The trapped player phenomenon isn't at all debatable. There isn't 'some' data, there is mountains of it. Start with the fact that 20% of January kids go D1 vs 5% of December kids and you'll start to see the problem. Keep in mind that within a class of HS juniors Dec babies are older than January babies and you'll get a sense for why ECNL is done with this BY experiment. You can't get rid of RAE. In the future June/July babies are going to suffer as the youngest on their teams but at least they won't have to sit around 8th grade year, play on a team with kids a grade older, and lose out on recruiting magic when they enter the window, need waivers to play at an odd time compared to the rest of their team, etc. They'll just be younger and that's hard enough. Its funny that SY was ever a debate. Trapped players are ruining youth soccer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Its cute to watch BY hopefuls continue to hold out hope that teams won't change. 'the better teams are fine, they are at the top already'. You really have no idea what's coming do you? WHOLESALE change.

We are in a VERY competitive area and the best teams in the nation are all here. And the best clubs want to stay that way. AT EVERY AGE GROUP.

The 2010-2012 teams (top in the nation) are already making moves. Their teams are made up of several Q3/Q4 kids. Use your imagination.... When one club drops their best 6 2011 players down to 2012 and takes that team from #30 to #1 in the country you're really so naive to think the other clubs are gonna shrug their shoulders and give up on their 2012 ranking?

If you believe that I have bridge in Brooklyn up for sale I'd love to discuss.

Until the unfortunate reality hits that the difference of a few months in age alone does’t change anything to get on some of these teams and talent actually matters.

Good point. Lets keep letting your kid play a grade down so they can feel good about their participation trophy and believe they're getting a scholarship. The minute my daughter is allowed on the field with her classmates it'll be clear how much a few months matters. Depending on age there aren't as many Q4 kids but they are absolutely going to obsolete your child. Talent does matter, your right, lol.

There are actually some teams with no trapped players so yes, talent and competitive experience, rather than age, is always going to matter more than many realize.

If they have no trapped players, then the team is dominated by older players making age matter a lot.

I've seen it where some clubs have essentially/consistently put most trapped players on the B teams (as long as they've had B teams). What I wonder at those clubs where those B team players might fit with a CY to SY switch.

There are literally high level ECNL tryouts where the first thing the coach does is split the group up by birthdate. Seen it twice.

That's just a coach being smart and doing what he/she is incentivized to do. I wouldn't want to deal with trapped players either. Any coach will tell you about the magic of cohesion and alignment. If I were putting together a powerhouse ECNL team, the first thing I'd do is remove all trapped players. Its too disruptive. My daughter is trapped. She's done fine but I have to wonder what could have been had she been a Q1 kid with all the advantages. No its not impossible to succeed as a trapped players, don't get your panties in a bunch. But the deck is stacked against you in so many ways its no wonder so few stick around through the RAE years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So we thinking next year most top level teams will be adjusting rosters to match the eventual school age change? When will ECNL announce their plans and will MLS/GA soon follow? They all have to do the same thing, right?

I'll tell you what ECNL is NOT going to do. They are not going to sit around for 18 months with their thumbs where it doesn't shine begging USSF for guidance. This plan was laid long ago and I wonder what the strategy was if USSF decided to delay a year. All we have to do now is wait for the official announcement.

[Anonymous]

Two out of 6 ECNL teams at every club every year have to shuffle rosters to accommodate trapped players. U18 for seniors that don’t have a team anymore and U14 for 8th graders whose season ends so the rest of their team can play HS soccer. This age change will happen once but means 1/3 of ECNL National teams won’t have to accommodate changes every year anymore