Why are people so upset about Common Core?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

When a state switches to new standards, they change their annual assessment to align with them. Because creating an assessment is a huge, expensive task, and because states want to be able to compare their results with each other, most states who have chosen to adopt the Common Core have joined one of two new assessments that are being written: PARCC, and Smarter Balanced Assessment.

These assessments will look at the skills that are addressed in the Common Core: Literacy and Math. The Literacy test will undoubtedly have a fair amount of nonfiction on it, and some of the nonfiction passages will probably have science or social studies themes, but kids won't be assessed on science and social studies content, since each state has their own standards in those areas. So, there might be a passage about an event in American History, but all the information needed to understand the passage will be provided. There won't be a question such as "Compare this with . . . " referencing another event that isn't addressed in the passage.

And, who benefits the most? Publishing companies. Follow the money.

Show me the money. Please? I'm clearly too dumb to follow it myself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

People started misinterpreting them because they are idiots.

Yes, this is what we want. People calling other people names because they disagree about something. If this is Common Core, then count me out.

Lol! You'll blame common core for anything won't you? Good grief.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Time Magazine has an article about the controversy on Common Core and why some states are abandoning it. The standards are meant to be an improvement in the sense that they set higher standards for measuring student performance. It shouldn't be a surprise then that students and teachers are having a hard time meeting those tougher standards and some kids and some teachers are failing. The result - some kids are developing school anxiety and teachers don't like their jobs anymore. The solutions are to either lower standards or find ways to meet the tougher standards.

The overall conclusion in the Time article was that some states rushed to adopt the standards (and get the federal money) without investing in the infrastructure that was needed to support implementation of the Common Core standards.

This was one of the arguments Virginia had against adopting Common Core. That they had developed an infrastructure around implementation of their standards and Common Core didn't come with any infrastructure. Virginia would have had to build that anew and lose the investment made in supporting Virginia standards of learning.

But then you have parents over in the MD forum saying that 2.0 is dumbed down compared to the old curriculum. And 2.0 was adopted to meet the Common Core standards. So this clearly isn't a universal opinion.

[Anonymous]

One of the biggest complaints people have about 2.0 is that there is less math acceleration in the elementary grades. This decision has nothing to do with Common Core. It was made because so many bright kids were making it middle school and crashing and burning in classes they weren't developmentally ready for. My kid is in one of the last few "pre 2.0/CC" classes in MCPS, and this has happened to so many of his friends.

When they switched to the new curriculum, MCPS made changes that were not driven by the Common Core. One of those was to limit math acceleration. Another was to move to standard's based grading. Neither has to do with Common Core.

[Anonymous]

This must be at only some MCPS schools. Other MCPS schools I hear about acceleration all the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This must be at only some MCPS schools. Other MCPS schools I hear about acceleration all the time.

MCPS still has acceleration, just not to the extreme degree they had it int he past where significant numbers of 3rd graders were taking 5th grade math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

When a state switches to new standards, they change their annual assessment to align with them. Because creating an assessment is a huge, expensive task, and because states want to be able to compare their results with each other, most states who have chosen to adopt the Common Core have joined one of two new assessments that are being written: PARCC, and Smarter Balanced Assessment.

These assessments will look at the skills that are addressed in the Common Core: Literacy and Math. The Literacy test will undoubtedly have a fair amount of nonfiction on it, and some of the nonfiction passages will probably have science or social studies themes, but kids won't be assessed on science and social studies content, since each state has their own standards in those areas. So, there might be a passage about an event in American History, but all the information needed to understand the passage will be provided. There won't be a question such as "Compare this with . . . " referencing another event that isn't addressed in the passage.

And, who benefits the most? Publishing companies. Follow the money.

Show me the money. Please? I'm clearly too dumb to follow it myself.

I believe that was posted pages back (not the PP but have been following this thread and posting in it)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The Common Core simply requires that they be thoughtful about their expectations for reading and writing during those assignments, and that their expectations are aligned with what is expected in other classes.

So, does the Chemistry teacher give the child a composition grade along with the Chemistry grade? That's not a very good idea.

Common Core is the standards, it doesn't direct schools on how to assess them. However, Chemistry teachers have graded things like lab reports, or questions from a text book for a long time, and have incorporated those things into student's final grade. Part of being proficient in Chemistry is being able to learn Chemistry from various modalities, and to report what you've learned. Common Core simply ensures that the expectations that teachers have from year to year in these skills progress in a logical manner. Rather than moving from a 9th grade Biology text book written on a 12th grade level, to a 10th grade Chemistry book written on a 6th grade level. Or that if students learn to cite references in a certain way in a certain grade, they're held to the same expectation in their History papers as their English papers.

How does the testing fit in across the country?

When a state switches to new standards, they change their annual assessment to align with them. Because creating an assessment is a huge, expensive task, and because states want to be able to compare their results with each other, most states who have chosen to adopt the Common Core have joined one of two new assessments that are being written: PARCC, and Smarter Balanced Assessment.

These assessments will look at the skills that are addressed in the Common Core: Literacy and Math. The Literacy test will undoubtedly have a fair amount of nonfiction on it, and some of the nonfiction passages will probably have science or social studies themes, but kids won't be assessed on science and social studies content, since each state has their own standards in those areas. So, there might be a passage about an event in American History, but all the information needed to understand the passage will be provided. There won't be a question such as "Compare this with . . . " referencing another event that isn't addressed in the passage.

Do you see the issue now? This is no longer a state initiative, this is a federal initiative. And since SATs and ACTs will change as well (they are being rewritten to CC standards as we speak), you will see charter and private schools being forced to use the same books, etc. . in order for those kids to test well on the college boards. English will be always be less controversial than math, because as you say the passage is there to see. Mathematics is going to be a huge issue, because the test questions WILL reflect the methods used on the PARCC tests, etc.

Is that something you advocate?

There is a reason teachers are complaining they cannot see test questions, and why transparency isn't there.

16 states and the District of Columbia are part of PARCC, less than half. It's not a federal initiate. It's a joint initiative between those 16 states and DC.

As far as the SAT and ACT changing, yes, I do believe in the changes. I think the tests should reflect the sequence in which things are currently taught in the majority of schools. Right now the SAT has been shown to have substantial bias. Changing it so that it's more closely aligned with what's actually taught in the majority of classrooms in this country will reduce some of that bias, and give kids who don't have access to outside enrichment a chance. If evening the playing field in this manner leads to people discovering that students at some private schoolare so far behind that as seniors they can't score well on a test of what public school students are doing in 9th or 10th grade Geometry (SAT 1 Math) or 10th or 11th grade Alg. 2 (SAT 2 Math 1), then that's an indication that those schools need to change their programs. Charter schools already teach to and are assessed on state standards, and this doesn't change under Common Core.

So this is exactly what people are saying it is - a deliberate destruction of the privates - all for the common good. I can see you support that. Your choice, but at least admit that's what's going on. Be honest.

If the college boards are changing, which they are, and that affects ALL US schooling, then indeed this is federal initiative.

Again, why are teachers complaining about lack of transparency?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The Common Core simply requires that they be thoughtful about their expectations for reading and writing during those assignments, and that their expectations are aligned with what is expected in other classes.

So, does the Chemistry teacher give the child a composition grade along with the Chemistry grade? That's not a very good idea.

Common Core is the standards, it doesn't direct schools on how to assess them. However, Chemistry teachers have graded things like lab reports, or questions from a text book for a long time, and have incorporated those things into student's final grade. Part of being proficient in Chemistry is being able to learn Chemistry from various modalities, and to report what you've learned. Common Core simply ensures that the expectations that teachers have from year to year in these skills progress in a logical manner. Rather than moving from a 9th grade Biology text book written on a 12th grade level, to a 10th grade Chemistry book written on a 6th grade level. Or that if students learn to cite references in a certain way in a certain grade, they're held to the same expectation in their History papers as their English papers.

How does the testing fit in across the country?

When a state switches to new standards, they change their annual assessment to align with them. Because creating an assessment is a huge, expensive task, and because states want to be able to compare their results with each other, most states who have chosen to adopt the Common Core have joined one of two new assessments that are being written: PARCC, and Smarter Balanced Assessment.

These assessments will look at the skills that are addressed in the Common Core: Literacy and Math. The Literacy test will undoubtedly have a fair amount of nonfiction on it, and some of the nonfiction passages will probably have science or social studies themes, but kids won't be assessed on science and social studies content, since each state has their own standards in those areas. So, there might be a passage about an event in American History, but all the information needed to understand the passage will be provided. There won't be a question such as "Compare this with . . . " referencing another event that isn't addressed in the passage.

Do you see the issue now? This is no longer a state initiative, this is a federal initiative. And since SATs and ACTs will change as well (they are being rewritten to CC standards as we speak), you will see charter and private schools being forced to use the same books, etc. . in order for those kids to test well on the college boards. English will be always be less controversial than math, because as you say the passage is there to see. Mathematics is going to be a huge issue, because the test questions WILL reflect the methods used on the PARCC tests, etc.

Is that something you advocate?

There is a reason teachers are complaining they cannot see test questions, and why transparency isn't there.

16 states and the District of Columbia are part of PARCC, less than half. It's not a federal initiate. It's a joint initiative between those 16 states and DC.

As far as the SAT and ACT changing, yes, I do believe in the changes. I think the tests should reflect the sequence in which things are currently taught in the majority of schools. Right now the SAT has been shown to have substantial bias. Changing it so that it's more closely aligned with what's actually taught in the majority of classrooms in this country will reduce some of that bias, and give kids who don't have access to outside enrichment a chance. If evening the playing field in this manner leads to people discovering that students at some private schoolare so far behind that as seniors they can't score well on a test of what public school students are doing in 9th or 10th grade Geometry (SAT 1 Math) or 10th or 11th grade Alg. 2 (SAT 2 Math 1), then that's an indication that those schools need to change their programs. Charter schools already teach to and are assessed on state standards, and this doesn't change under Common Core.

So this is exactly what people are saying it is - a deliberate destruction of the privates - all for the common good. I can see you support that. Your choice, but at least admit that's what's going on. Be honest.

If the college boards are changing, which they are, and that affects ALL US schooling, then indeed this is federal initiative.


Again, why are teachers complaining about lack of transparency?

Teachers, and I am one, are anxious because we haven't seen PARCC. This is is, at least in part, because it's still in process of being created. But it's still anxiety producing to know that something that's as important to your students and your school and your own evaluation isn't done and available for you to read. I'm anxious about it. But I don't see a way to roll out a new test without there being a period between when you announce the test and you first administer the final version, during which people won't have seen it.

[Anonymous]

Sorry, I hit reply too soon.

Anonymous wrote:

So this is exactly what people are saying it is - a deliberate destruction of the privates - all for the common good. I can see you support that. Your choice, but at least admit that's what's going on. Be honest.

No, this is not a "deliberate destruction of the privates". Yes, I would assume that if the CC succeeds, and students in public schools learn more than they did previously, there will be more competition for slots at top universities. There may also be private schools who lose students to the public schools. There may also be private schools who decide to adapt their own standards to be more like the public schools. I don't see how you could improve public schools without having some impact on the private schools. Are you actually advocating that the public schools shouldn't improve because private schools might lose business?

On the other hand, there will be plenty of strong privates who won't be implemented at all. Strong private schools have taught the kind of critical thinking skills, and higher level reading and writing skills that are in the Common Core for generations.

If the college boards are changing, which they are, and that affects ALL US schooling, then indeed this is federal initiative.

I think you are unclear about what the term "federal" means. If a private entity decides to adapt the product that they make to accommodate factors in the market they serve, that's not a "federal initiative".

Again, why are teachers complaining about lack of transparency?

Teachers, and I am one, are anxious because we haven't seen PARCC. This is is, at least in part, because it's still in process of being created. But it's still anxiety producing to know that something that's as important to your students and your school and your own evaluation isn't done and available for you to read. I'm anxious about it. But I don't see a way to roll out a new test without there being a period between when you announce the test and you first administer the final version, during which people won't have seen it.

[Anonymous]

The Common Core State Standards for writing are far better than what I have ever seen as standards for writing in public schools, in the 3 states where I have taught. They seem to me to be the kind of expectations you would see at a good private school, where writing, especially the argumentative essay, is taught well and thoroughly.

I do have my doubts as to whether public school teachers are equipped to teach this kind of writing. I know we certainly don't have the small class sizes that private schools do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

When a state switches to new standards, they change their annual assessment to align with them. Because creating an assessment is a huge, expensive task, and because states want to be able to compare their results with each other, most states who have chosen to adopt the Common Core have joined one of two new assessments that are being written: PARCC, and Smarter Balanced Assessment.

These assessments will look at the skills that are addressed in the Common Core: Literacy and Math. The Literacy test will undoubtedly have a fair amount of nonfiction on it, and some of the nonfiction passages will probably have science or social studies themes, but kids won't be assessed on science and social studies content, since each state has their own standards in those areas. So, there might be a passage about an event in American History, but all the information needed to understand the passage will be provided. There won't be a question such as "Compare this with . . . " referencing another event that isn't addressed in the passage.

And, who benefits the most? Publishing companies. Follow the money.

Indeed- publishing companies have been lobbying hard FOR YEARS for new standards so that they could create new books. They weren't making enough money off the old books anymore. Just look at the donations these companies have given to the governors that supported Common Core. They'll be lobbying for standards in other subjects like science and history soon (or maybe they already are).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Common Core State Standards for writing are far better than what I have ever seen as standards for writing in public schools, in the 3 states where I have taught. They seem to me to be the kind of expectations you would see at a good private school, where writing, especially the argumentative essay, is taught well and thoroughly.

I do have my doubts as to whether public school teachers are equipped to teach this kind of writing. I know we certainly don't have the small class sizes that private schools do.

I don't know if you are missing or evading my point. Private schools now are exempt from SOLs and I'm assuming will be exempt from the CC tests. But since the college boards are being re-written to correspond with the CC standards (and thus the common core curriculums), without knowledge of these curriculums, private school students will fare poorly.

As a teacher, you are aware that curriculum is what implements standards, and that material for the curriculum is often mass-produced by a few companies and purchased en-masse from these companies by school districts. When one takes a standardized test, those tests are written to test for the standards, but also MUST be written in a format that the students are familiar with, especially mathematics. This was less important when kids had to simply come up with an answer to the question but the new standards require not just an answer to the mathematics question, but show an understanding of HOW they got the answer, and I can guarantee you that HOW is going to be pulled straight from those workbooks. On a college board test, that is written to biased towards CC, the net result will be 'privates, adopt common core or go out of business'.

While I respect teachers immensely, your responses seem to show a lack of understanding of the relationship between standards and implementation of standards. If you want a great example of that, you should look no farther than the disaster that was the rollout of the Obamacare website.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know if you are missing or evading my point. Private schools now are exempt from SOLs and I'm assuming will be exempt from the CC tests. But since the college boards are being re-written to correspond with the CC standards (and thus the common core curriculums), without knowledge of these curriculums, private school students will fare poorly.

If private school students fare poorly on the SATs and ACTs when they are rewritten to align with Common Core standards, then that means that the private school education wasn't very good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know if you are missing or evading my point. Private schools now are exempt from SOLs and I'm assuming will be exempt from the CC tests. But since the college boards are being re-written to correspond with the CC standards (and thus the common core curriculums), without knowledge of these curriculums, private school students will fare poorly.

If private school students fare poorly on the SATs and ACTs when they are rewritten to align with Common Core standards, then that means that the private school education wasn't very good.

That's not so. There is what kids know and how they are tested to show what they know. The problem will be the latter, not the former.

Again, this a classic demonstration regarding the lack of knowledge between standards and implementation of standards.