FCPS Boundary Review Updates

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They could have avoided all this controversy if they revised 8130 to say:

A) A review will occur when a school building grows beyond 110% capacity.

B) The first step of the review process requires a full residency check of all students attending this school. Students shown to reside out of the school zone will be returned to their home school the following school year and the school population will be recounted with the accurate student enrollment.

C) All schools slated for rezoning must return student transfers to their base school before starting the rezoning process, so that the incoming transfer number is zero students. No incoming transfer students may be counted in the numbers used for rezoning. Only students residing in the base school zone may be counted for rezoning purposes.

D) All students enrolling in the transition years of kindergarten, 7th grade and 9th grade will be required to submit proof of residency to enroll in school.

E) All rezoning will allow grandfathering for any residency confirmed students currently enrolled at the school, with rezoning occuring when the student transitions to a new MS (7th) or HS (9th) school level.

F) FCPS is required to hold the rezoning information meetings at the schools directly impacted by rezoning.

Everyone wants to reverse engineer the policy to minimize their own chances of being redistricted.

They currently have, and should continue to have, the ability to consider boundary changes when schools are under-enrolled as well as over capacity.

I do agree they should hold information meetings at the schools potentially directly impacted by rezoning. They seem to be going out of their way to hold them at schools not impacted in order to make it as difficult as possible for some to comment in person. It's all of a piece with their limiting speaker time during SB meetings to two minutes (down from three) and not showing the faces of those who are speaking.

I actually live close enough to the schools that rezoning is not an issue for my family.

I stand by my suggestions.

Creating a policy with a set, concrete policy that makes sense, has measurable metrics, prioritizes the families who purchased homes in zone over families pupil placing into schools or lying about residency, and prioritizes stability, with a transparent and accessible feedback process for affected families are the only changes FCPS should have made to policy 8130.

They aren’t going to revise Policy 8130 along the lines you’ve suggested but you can propose whatever you want. You’ll get a few likes here from folks who’d like to limit the school board’s discretion and that’s all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone on here talk about Annandale High school. The school is close to capacity and projected to hit higher (with modulars) yet they are moving Lewis students and putting it above capacity.

Why would they do that? This seems to go against the whole point of this review and sets the school for failure when it is finally turning itself around.

1. They are only looking at September enrollments for capacity, not projections.
2. They are considering capacity with the modulars, not without.

So while there’s projected growth in Annandale, and the current capacity is perfect for phasing out the modulars, they’re going to fill them back up.

And, look at that, in the efforts to fix the Holmes to Annandale and Edison split feeder, they’ve created a Holmes to Annandale/Justice split feeder in the 4-11 presentation, slide 12 that’s never addressed!

Slide 12 of the 4/11 presentation addresses a Bull Run ES attendance island. I think you are referring to Slide 20 of the 4/25 presentation, which appears to show part of Holmes moving to Justice.

I doubt this was their intent, but Thru Consulting probably should be renamed Sloppy Consulting. I think they used the wrong map, and treated an area that they separately proposed to move from Parklawn ES to Columbia ES (see Slide 36 of the 4/11 presentation) as if that area was zoned for Justice rather than Annandale. That area currently attends Annandale and there would be no reason to move it to Justice, especially if they were moving it from Parklawn (currently a split feeder to Annandale and Justice) to Columbia (a 100% feeder to Annandale).

The whole Edison-to-Annandale move to eliminate the split feeder at Holmes looks like an exercise in rearranging deck chairs. In 2010-11 Annandale HS had an enrollment of slighly over 2500 and this was considered unacceptable. In response, the School Board moved the part of Wakefield Forest that had attended Poe/Annandale to Frost/Woodson and reassigned Bren Mar Park from Annandale to Edison while leaving it at Holmes. Now, because split feeders are being targeted, they are proposing to move Bren Mar Park back to Annandale, which would leave Annandale just shy of 2500 again.

I feel for that community. Some now in the Edsall Park area have to cross both 495 and 395 to get to Edison, but Annandale with 2500 kids is not going to be a great environment. It's an old building that, along with Lewis and McLean, got the cheapest "renovations" of any high schools in the early 2000s, and it currently has a 14-classroom modular. It also has a large ESOL/FARMS population, and 2500 kids at Annandale is a bigger challenge than, say, 2400 kids at McLean. On the other hand, Edison is currently at 107% capacity with no modular, so they thought they were dealing with two issues (split feeder at Holmes, overcrowding at Edison) by reassigning BMP back to Annandale. If you can install a modular at Annandale (28 acres), I'm not sure why they can't install a modular at Edison (43.5 acres).

We are newer to the area and live in that part of Wakefield Forest that was re-districted to Frost and Woodson back when you mentioned. I have heard from neighbors that the community was split on it and it was ugly. Lots of people wanted to stay at Annandale and were able to due to generous grandfathering policies.

My spouse and I went to one of the earlier boundary meetings at Annandale HS to see the school and hopefully talk to some families there, in the event that our neighborhood was sent back there. We chose the Frost and Woodson pyramid due to AP, marching band, and a few extracurricular clubs our kids are particularly interested in. We were/are not eager to have our kids move in high school but we took the opportunity to go and see the school during that presentation.

We met countless parents who loved the school and didn’t want to be zoned OUT of it. They had kids who loved the IB program and have a stellar Arabic teacher, apparently. They described what happened when our particular area was routed out of Annandale and to Woodson and it was really interesting to hear. They said the parent and community involvement plummeted at the middle and high schools there and never really recovered - at least not to the original level. Again, we are new to the area and totally unfamiliar with what has happened in the past here. That’s just what we were told. It was good perspective to help us better appreciate what can happen when school boundaries are changed and communities are moved to other areas. It sounds like it was a net negative for Annandale, and while I’d prefer my kids to stay at Woodson and continue to have stability there, I really feel for our neighboring school and community and hope they don’t continue to have such unrest.

Some others in this forum in years past have posted how FCPS really botched that boundary move with Annandale. The former principal warned against moving Annandale’s higher income outside-the-beltway neighborhoods from Annandale to Woodson, Robinson, etc. He was harshly criticized for comments that were construed to be belittling of the inside the beltway neighborhoods.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone on here talk about Annandale High school. The school is close to capacity and projected to hit higher (with modulars) yet they are moving Lewis students and putting it above capacity.

Why would they do that? This seems to go against the whole point of this review and sets the school for failure when it is finally turning itself around.

1. They are only looking at September enrollments for capacity, not projections.
2. They are considering capacity with the modulars, not without.

So while there’s projected growth in Annandale, and the current capacity is perfect for phasing out the modulars, they’re going to fill them back up.

And, look at that, in the efforts to fix the Holmes to Annandale and Edison split feeder, they’ve created a Holmes to Annandale/Justice split feeder in the 4-11 presentation, slide 12 that’s never addressed!

Slide 12 of the 4/11 presentation addresses a Bull Run ES attendance island. I think you are referring to Slide 20 of the 4/25 presentation, which appears to show part of Holmes moving to Justice.

I doubt this was their intent, but Thru Consulting probably should be renamed Sloppy Consulting. I think they used the wrong map, and treated an area that they separately proposed to move from Parklawn ES to Columbia ES (see Slide 36 of the 4/11 presentation) as if that area was zoned for Justice rather than Annandale. That area currently attends Annandale and there would be no reason to move it to Justice, especially if they were moving it from Parklawn (currently a split feeder to Annandale and Justice) to Columbia (a 100% feeder to Annandale).

The whole Edison-to-Annandale move to eliminate the split feeder at Holmes looks like an exercise in rearranging deck chairs. In 2010-11 Annandale HS had an enrollment of slighly over 2500 and this was considered unacceptable. In response, the School Board moved the part of Wakefield Forest that had attended Poe/Annandale to Frost/Woodson and reassigned Bren Mar Park from Annandale to Edison while leaving it at Holmes. Now, because split feeders are being targeted, they are proposing to move Bren Mar Park back to Annandale, which would leave Annandale just shy of 2500 again.

I feel for that community. Some now in the Edsall Park area have to cross both 495 and 395 to get to Edison, but Annandale with 2500 kids is not going to be a great environment. It's an old building that, along with Lewis and McLean, got the cheapest "renovations" of any high schools in the early 2000s, and it currently has a 14-classroom modular. It also has a large ESOL/FARMS population, and 2500 kids at Annandale is a bigger challenge than, say, 2400 kids at McLean. On the other hand, Edison is currently at 107% capacity with no modular, so they thought they were dealing with two issues (split feeder at Holmes, overcrowding at Edison) by reassigning BMP back to Annandale. If you can install a modular at Annandale (28 acres), I'm not sure why they can't install a modular at Edison (43.5 acres).

We are newer to the area and live in that part of Wakefield Forest that was re-districted to Frost and Woodson back when you mentioned. I have heard from neighbors that the community was split on it and it was ugly. Lots of people wanted to stay at Annandale and were able to due to generous grandfathering policies.

My spouse and I went to one of the earlier boundary meetings at Annandale HS to see the school and hopefully talk to some families there, in the event that our neighborhood was sent back there. We chose the Frost and Woodson pyramid due to AP, marching band, and a few extracurricular clubs our kids are particularly interested in. We were/are not eager to have our kids move in high school but we took the opportunity to go and see the school during that presentation.

We met countless parents who loved the school and didn’t want to be zoned OUT of it. They had kids who loved the IB program and have a stellar Arabic teacher, apparently. They described what happened when our particular area was routed out of Annandale and to Woodson and it was really interesting to hear. They said the parent and community involvement plummeted at the middle and high schools there and never really recovered - at least not to the original level. Again, we are new to the area and totally unfamiliar with what has happened in the past here. That’s just what we were told. It was good perspective to help us better appreciate what can happen when school boundaries are changed and communities are moved to other areas. It sounds like it was a net negative for Annandale, and while I’d prefer my kids to stay at Woodson and continue to have stability there, I really feel for our neighboring school and community and hope they don’t continue to have such unrest.

Some others in this forum in years past have posted how FCPS really botched that boundary move with Annandale. The former principal warned against moving Annandale’s higher income outside-the-beltway neighborhoods from Annandale to Woodson, Robinson, etc. He was harshly criticized for comments that were construed to be belittling of the inside the beltway neighborhoods.

Yep. The issues with Annandale go back to the decision in the mid-1980s to convert Jefferson HS to a STEM magnet. Initially, all "legacy" Jefferson families were told their kids could attend Annandale, but two things happened. First, Annandale ended up with the poverty along two parts of Route 236 (right inside the Beltway near the high school and also the area near Landmark that had gone to Jefferson) rather than one. Second, Annandale soon ended up overcrowded. As a result, between 1990 and 2010, FCPS redistricted single-family neighborhoods from Annandale to both Falls Church and Justice (the Columbia Pines area) and then later to Lake Braddock (part of Ravensworth). And then, in 2011, they further redistricted single-family Wakefield Forest to Woodson and more diverse Bren Mar Park to Edison.

Wakefield Forest families were divided on the move at the time. Families with older kids already at Annandale tended to oppose the boundary change, whereas younger families with kids not yet at Poe and Annandale welcomed the elimination of the split feeder. When people pointed out that Wakefield Forest kids were disproportionately represented in leadership positions and on sports teams at Annandale, some pushed back and called them condescending. The Mason District member on the School Board at the time (Sandy Evans) got worried and tried to delay the boundary changes, but the rest of the School Board overruled her and changed the boundaries in 2011.

I have a good friend at Annandale and she raved about the IB program and the diversity there, but she also says that not many parents get involved with the PTSA and other school activities. The parents who do get involved tend to end up with "volunteer fatigue." FCPS assigned one of its top principals (Shawn DeRose) to Annandale, but it hasn't done anything to schedule another renovation of Annandale, which is showing its age. If they move the Bren Mar Park kids back to Annandale, and it ends up with 2500 or so kids again, it's going to put a further strain on the facilities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s really funny to see the whining from the equity warriors right now because thru saw through their pretext and saw the naked equity attempt.

Glad that the school board and superintendent came to their senses on it. They saved the county tax base and the Fairfax county Democratic Party by not listening to the extreme left flank.

What are you talking about? Plenty of neighborhoods (including mine) are slated to get moved. Nothing has been decided yet.

It's just a Forestville, Great Falls, or even worse one of the "good" Herndon address homeowners doing a victory lap because they weren't moved. They don't care about you or your family, only that they got what they wanted.

DP. I belong in none of your odd "categories," but having followed this discussion for months, I am loving the fact that people like you got a metaphorical pie in the face. You've been insisting that one particular community be moved - because you hate them - and that didn't happen. But what do you know? YOUR kids are going to be moved. Sorry, that is karma in a nutshell.

I hope you learned your lesson. Worry about your own kids.

Nope. I bought after the 2008 boundary fiasco. Made sure to buy solidly inside our target school zone. Zero chance we get moved. I'm still allowed to point out the hypocrisy of posters here who hated Thru when they worried they would be move, but now sing their praises for making the "right" decisions (that didn't involve their boundary). It's so obvious.
So no pie in the face here. With the new wording of policy 8130 I don't see how anyone would consider paying the Langley premium for any Forestville home though. It's a foregone conclusion that as Tysons grows they will end up at Herndon eventually. All that stress every 5 years won't be fun.

Highly doubtful. As has been pointed out by several different people, both Herndon and Langley are currently under capacity and FCPS is not expected to grow - it will probably decline. So, just as there is no current need to move students from either of those schools, there will be even less of a reason to do so in the future. Sorry!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s really funny to see the whining from the equity warriors right now because thru saw through their pretext and saw the naked equity attempt.

Glad that the school board and superintendent came to their senses on it. They saved the county tax base and the Fairfax county Democratic Party by not listening to the extreme left flank.

What are you talking about? Plenty of neighborhoods (including mine) are slated to get moved. Nothing has been decided yet.

It's just a Forestville, Great Falls, or even worse one of the "good" Herndon address homeowners doing a victory lap because they weren't moved. They don't care about you or your family, only that they got what they wanted.

DP. I belong in none of your odd "categories," but having followed this discussion for months, I am loving the fact that people like you got a metaphorical pie in the face. You've been insisting that one particular community be moved - because you hate them - and that didn't happen. But what do you know? YOUR kids are going to be moved. Sorry, that is karma in a nutshell.

I hope you learned your lesson. Worry about your own kids.

Nope. I bought after the 2008 boundary fiasco. Made sure to buy solidly inside our target school zone. Zero chance we get moved. I'm still allowed to point out the hypocrisy of posters here who hated Thru when they worried they would be move, but now sing their praises for making the "right" decisions (that didn't involve their boundary). It's so obvious.
So no pie in the face here. With the new wording of policy 8130 I don't see how anyone would consider paying the Langley premium for any Forestville home though. It's a foregone conclusion that as Tysons grows they will end up at Herndon eventually. All that stress every 5 years won't be fun.

Serious question- at what point should we be concerned with your obsession? You spent hours yesterday on this discussion forum obsessing over a school not being moved as part of the boundary review, including posting in the wee hours of the morning.

+1
There's clearly some mental instability at play here.
DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s really funny to see the whining from the equity warriors right now because thru saw through their pretext and saw the naked equity attempt.

Glad that the school board and superintendent came to their senses on it. They saved the county tax base and the Fairfax county Democratic Party by not listening to the extreme left flank.

What are you talking about? Plenty of neighborhoods (including mine) are slated to get moved. Nothing has been decided yet.

It's just a Forestville, Great Falls, or even worse one of the "good" Herndon address homeowners doing a victory lap because they weren't moved. They don't care about you or your family, only that they got what they wanted.

DP. I belong in none of your odd "categories," but having followed this discussion for months, I am loving the fact that people like you got a metaphorical pie in the face. You've been insisting that one particular community be moved - because you hate them - and that didn't happen. But what do you know? YOUR kids are going to be moved. Sorry, that is karma in a nutshell.

I hope you learned your lesson. Worry about your own kids.

DP. Aren’t you that creepy Colvin Run mom who has posting on here for years? You single-handedly keep Langley’s enrollment down below 105% because people don’t want to be around people like you or your kids.

You’re like a scarecrow in a field. Forestville should pay you a commission.

^^ Perfect example of a mentally unwell person. Please, please seek help for your LDS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Cooper will get overcrowded before Langley with the Spring Hill move that is already proposed but they will work the system in a few years to get modulars installed at Cooper and Langley to add more capacity.

Or they'll just deal with temporary overcrowding, knowing that student numbers will decline in the coming years. You poor thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

They currently have, and should continue to have, the ability to consider boundary changes when schools are under-enrolled as well as over capacity.

Only if they include the students who are Pupil Placed OUT.

It is not fair to take other neighborhoods and move them to a school that is losing students to pupil placement. That needs to be addressed first.

+100
Students need to be returned to their base schools before any boundary changes are even contemplated. And that goes for AAP centers, which should be a thing of the past. As should IB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cooper will get overcrowded before Langley with the Spring Hill move that is already proposed but they will work the system in a few years to get modulars installed at Cooper and Langley to add more capacity.

Or they'll just deal with temporary overcrowding, knowing that student numbers will decline in the coming years. You poor thing.

DP, but moving that big chunk of Tysons to Cooper/Langley may be a game changer. That’s a growing area, unlike the aging single-family neighborhoods that have been losing school-age kids.

No idea why you’re so confrontational. Are you the scarecrow poster?

[Anonymous]

Can someone tell me what’s up with Armstrong elementary? It seems like they are getting a renovation and expansion that will bring them from 74% capacity to 41% capacity. At a cost of over $116 million.

Good news, I think I found a line item that would go a long way toward solving the budget shortfall.

Why in the world are they expanding a school at 74% capacity?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can someone tell me what’s up with Armstrong elementary? It seems like they are getting a renovation and expansion that will bring them from 74% capacity to 41% capacity. At a cost of over $116 million.

Good news, I think I found a line item that would go a long way toward solving the budget shortfall.

Why in the world are they expanding a school at 74% capacity?

Where are you getting that number? The latest CIP has it budgeted for $59 million.

They expand every school in the 2008 queue getting renovated, regardless of current need. It’s the schools not in that old queue that need additions that get ignored.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cooper will get overcrowded before Langley with the Spring Hill move that is already proposed but they will work the system in a few years to get modulars installed at Cooper and Langley to add more capacity.

Or they'll just deal with temporary overcrowding, knowing that student numbers will decline in the coming years. You poor thing.

DP, but moving that big chunk of Tysons to Cooper/Langley may be a game changer. That’s a growing area, unlike the aging single-family neighborhoods that have been losing school-age kids.

No idea why you’re so confrontational. Are you the scarecrow poster?

The troll is back again, calling anyone she disagrees with names. I have no idea what you're talking about, but you do indeed know exactly why I and others aren't interested in humoring you any longer. Once again, there may be a temporary influx of students, but that will abate in the future.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can someone tell me what’s up with Armstrong elementary? It seems like they are getting a renovation and expansion that will bring them from 74% capacity to 41% capacity. At a cost of over $116 million.

Good news, I think I found a line item that would go a long way toward solving the budget shortfall.

Why in the world are they expanding a school at 74% capacity?

I can't speak to Armstrong, but yanking Karl Frisch's idiotic boondoggle would certainly help the budget shortfall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone tell me what’s up with Armstrong elementary? It seems like they are getting a renovation and expansion that will bring them from 74% capacity to 41% capacity. At a cost of over $116 million.

Good news, I think I found a line item that would go a long way toward solving the budget shortfall.

Why in the world are they expanding a school at 74% capacity?

Where are you getting that number? The latest CIP has it budgeted for $59 million.

They expand every school in the 2008 queue getting renovated, regardless of current need. It’s the schools not in that old queue that need additions that get ignored.

I double counted. Still $59 million for an unnecessary expansion is the height of idiotic. I get expanding schools that need them, but 41% projected capacity after the expansion? That’s criminal negligence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cooper will get overcrowded before Langley with the Spring Hill move that is already proposed but they will work the system in a few years to get modulars installed at Cooper and Langley to add more capacity.

Or they'll just deal with temporary overcrowding, knowing that student numbers will decline in the coming years. You poor thing.

DP, but moving that big chunk of Tysons to Cooper/Langley may be a game changer. That’s a growing area, unlike the aging single-family neighborhoods that have been losing school-age kids.

No idea why you’re so confrontational. Are you the scarecrow poster?

The troll is back again, calling anyone she disagrees with names. I have no idea what you're talking about, but you do indeed know exactly why I and others aren't interested in humoring you any longer. Once again, there may be a temporary influx of students, but that will abate in the future.

You may want to look at both the capacity and the residential development applications dashboards for further information on both recent enrollment trends and the potential student yields from additional development in the part of Tysons that Thru has proposed to move to Langley.

Birth rates can decline both nationally and locally, yet if growth is concentrated in a specific area school enrollments can still increase.

Try not to act so unhinged next time.