D.C. needs to get a lot more car friendly

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The biggest gift to Fairfax and Loudon Co, VA is Washington, DC. Every time DC does stuff like this, the economic development heads of those counties laugh about how much easier you make their jobs.

https://www.bizjournals.com/washington/news/2022/05/05/union-station-expansion-revised.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2022/03/24/dc-speed-red-light-cameras/

People will get the hint and respond accordingly. It won’t be sudden but it’s just entropy. Put up obstacles and people will go elsewhere. The Mosaic District is about to go off the charts.

Go ahead and pedestrianize DC. All pedestrian malls have one thing in common, they are economic dead zones. Enjoy.

😂😂😂
I think you forgot the /s

[Anonymous]

Saw this tweet and thought of this thread:

https://twitter.com/citizencharming/status/1366946078935908353?s=21&t=_z6QPs7ql4afQFbwVZoi0g

(In conclusion: more buses)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The biggest gift to Fairfax and Loudon Co, VA is Washington, DC. Every time DC does stuff like this, the economic development heads of those counties laugh about how much easier you make their jobs.

https://www.bizjournals.com/washington/news/2022/05/05/union-station-expansion-revised.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2022/03/24/dc-speed-red-light-cameras/

People will get the hint and respond accordingly. It won’t be sudden but it’s just entropy. Put up obstacles and people will go elsewhere. The Mosaic District is about to go off the charts.

Go ahead and pedestrianize DC. All pedestrian malls have one thing in common, they are economic dead zones. Enjoy.

😂😂😂
I think you forgot the /s

You’re not too bright. Go have fun at the Santa Monica Promenade. Better yet, just pay attention to our community. The businesses at Bethesda Row have struggled. Bonobos intentionally moved to Bethesda Ave and a number of others have famously gone out of business. Retail or dining, doesn’t matter. There’s a reason why the developers behind Pike and Rose and the Mosaic District insisted on a street grid with cars and street parking, as well as abundant garage parking. Your utopian ideals of “urbanism” are economically unviable. Sorry to break it to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The biggest gift to Fairfax and Loudon Co, VA is Washington, DC. Every time DC does stuff like this, the economic development heads of those counties laugh about how much easier you make their jobs.

https://www.bizjournals.com/washington/news/2022/05/05/union-station-expansion-revised.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2022/03/24/dc-speed-red-light-cameras/

People will get the hint and respond accordingly. It won’t be sudden but it’s just entropy. Put up obstacles and people will go elsewhere. The Mosaic District is about to go off the charts.

Go ahead and pedestrianize DC. All pedestrian malls have one thing in common, they are economic dead zones. Enjoy.

😂😂😂
I think you forgot the /s

You’re not too bright. Go have fun at the Santa Monica Promenade. Better yet, just pay attention to our community. The businesses at Bethesda Row have struggled. Bonobos intentionally moved to Bethesda Ave and a number of others have famously gone out of business. Retail or dining, doesn’t matter. There’s a reason why the developers behind Pike and Rose and the Mosaic District insisted on a street grid with cars and street parking, as well as abundant garage parking. Your utopian ideals of “urbanism” are economically unviable. Sorry to break it to you.

huh, do you always make things up? pedestrianization is good for the kind of commerce you’d expect to thrive there - restaurants etc. Plus, making urban areas more accessible to transit and safer for pedestrians is not “pedestrianization.”

https://urbansciences.jp/1430/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need to make metro free, that’s its only hope.

It currently is free. Payment is only voluntary.

And we know that was a failure in Seattle

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The biggest gift to Fairfax and Loudon Co, VA is Washington, DC. Every time DC does stuff like this, the economic development heads of those counties laugh about how much easier you make their jobs.

https://www.bizjournals.com/washington/news/2022/05/05/union-station-expansion-revised.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2022/03/24/dc-speed-red-light-cameras/

People will get the hint and respond accordingly. It won’t be sudden but it’s just entropy. Put up obstacles and people will go elsewhere. The Mosaic District is about to go off the charts.

Go ahead and pedestrianize DC. All pedestrian malls have one thing in common, they are economic dead zones. Enjoy.

😂😂😂
I think you forgot the /s

You’re not too bright. Go have fun at the Santa Monica Promenade. Better yet, just pay attention to our community. The businesses at Bethesda Row have struggled. Bonobos intentionally moved to Bethesda Ave and a number of others have famously gone out of business. Retail or dining, doesn’t matter. There’s a reason why the developers behind Pike and Rose and the Mosaic District insisted on a street grid with cars and street parking, as well as abundant garage parking. Your utopian ideals of “urbanism” are economically unviable. Sorry to break it to you.

huh, do you always make things up? pedestrianization is good for the kind of commerce you’d expect to thrive there - restaurants etc. Plus, making urban areas more accessible to transit and safer for pedestrians is not “pedestrianization.”

https://urbansciences.jp/1430/

It’s nice that you are true to the urbanist belief in inventing your own facts.

What’s interesting in this case is that you are even choosing to make up facts to contradict the scholarship of your very own. You can read all you want about why pedestrian malls are typically massive failures in pro-urbanist publications and in the academic literature from planners.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-09-09/why-america-fell-out-of-love-with-the-pedestrian-mall
https://www.governing.com/assessments/the-strange-troubled-history-of-pedestrian-malls.html?_amp=true
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/01944363.2019.1656103#b0001
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17549175.2020.1793804?src=recsys

Or, you can just not read anything at all and consider what successful developers do when their profits are at stake.

[Anonymous]

How, exactly, do you want to make DC more car friendly?? Build more roads? Maybe Elon Musk tunnels? Convert buildings into parking garages for free parking? No speeding fines or tickets ever?

As a driver, none of that sounds good or worth the high costs. And removing every bike lane and banning bikes wouldn't even make a dent in congestion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How, exactly, do you want to make DC more car friendly?? Build more roads? Maybe Elon Musk tunnels? Convert buildings into parking garages for free parking? No speeding fines or tickets ever?

As a driver, none of that sounds good or worth the high costs. And removing every bike lane and banning bikes wouldn't even make a dent in congestion.

Everything that DC is currently doing follows the examples in the literature of what not to do for the unsuccessful pedestrianizations, except the Wharf. The Wharf is and will continue to be successful because it follows the model that was articulated in the literature and just common sense. First, put it in a location that has a natural draw, the waterfront is a perfect choice. Second, understand that the target market is limited leisure time, not retail, so focus on entertainment and dining. Third, provide abundant parking. It’s not a shock that successful private developers were responsible for the Wharf.

Making other places in the city, already with limited parking, increasingly more challenging and frustrating to get to will have the opposite effect and those neighborhoods that you think are being helped in the end will eventually suffer as people will just use their limited time to go somewhere else that’s more convenient.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How, exactly, do you want to make DC more car friendly?? Build more roads? Maybe Elon Musk tunnels? Convert buildings into parking garages for free parking? No speeding fines or tickets ever?

As a driver, none of that sounds good or worth the high costs. And removing every bike lane and banning bikes wouldn't even make a dent in congestion.

Everything that DC is currently doing follows the examples in the literature of what not to do for the unsuccessful pedestrianizations, except the Wharf. The Wharf is and will continue to be successful because it follows the model that was articulated in the literature and just common sense. First, put it in a location that has a natural draw, the waterfront is a perfect choice. Second, understand that the target market is limited leisure time, not retail, so focus on entertainment and dining. Third, provide abundant parking. It’s not a shock that successful private developers were responsible for the Wharf.

Making other places in the city, already with limited parking, increasingly more challenging and frustrating to get to will have the opposite effect and those neighborhoods that you think are being helped in the end will eventually suffer as people will just use their limited time to go somewhere else that’s more convenient.

So... You want to do all the things I listed? You think that makes for a pleasant place?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think DC needs to be less car friendly and charge cars to enter DC like London. Maryland drivers cut through my neighborhood speeding and ignoring stop signs. F**k commuters!! You have zero respect for Dc residents.

I agree 100%. My kids and I almost get mowed down by these jacka$$es on the regular just trying to get to school, doesn’t matter that we always cross with the walk sign/in the crosswalk the MD drivers have no respect for traffuc laws and would happily run over my kids if it means getting to work 2 minutes faster. F these people I’m so sick of DC bending over backwards to make them happy

As someone who lives near NIH, let me assure you that there is no state monopoly on inconsiderate commuters. I see plenty of DC drivers who exhibit selfish dangerous behavior all the time.

And DC is responsible for funneling commuter traffic onto residential streets. You want to keep commuters off the back streets? Reopen Beach Drive, fine double-parkers who turn main thoroughfares into one-way roads, and bring back the rush hour shift for Connecticut Avenue, and most of us who drive into our DC offices will stay on the arterial roads.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How, exactly, do you want to make DC more car friendly?? Build more roads? Maybe Elon Musk tunnels? Convert buildings into parking garages for free parking? No speeding fines or tickets ever?

As a driver, none of that sounds good or worth the high costs. And removing every bike lane and banning bikes wouldn't even make a dent in congestion.

Everything that DC is currently doing follows the examples in the literature of what not to do for the unsuccessful pedestrianizations, except the Wharf. The Wharf is and will continue to be successful because it follows the model that was articulated in the literature and just common sense. First, put it in a location that has a natural draw, the waterfront is a perfect choice. Second, understand that the target market is limited leisure time, not retail, so focus on entertainment and dining. Third, provide abundant parking. It’s not a shock that successful private developers were responsible for the Wharf.

Making other places in the city, already with limited parking, increasingly more challenging and frustrating to get to will have the opposite effect and those neighborhoods that you think are being helped in the end will eventually suffer as people will just use their limited time to go somewhere else that’s more convenient.

So... You want to do all the things I listed? You think that makes for a pleasant place?

Does that list include being convenient to an interstate and providing abundant car parking?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How, exactly, do you want to make DC more car friendly?? Build more roads? Maybe Elon Musk tunnels? Convert buildings into parking garages for free parking? No speeding fines or tickets ever?

As a driver, none of that sounds good or worth the high costs. And removing every bike lane and banning bikes wouldn't even make a dent in congestion.

Everything that DC is currently doing follows the examples in the literature of what not to do for the unsuccessful pedestrianizations, except the Wharf. The Wharf is and will continue to be successful because it follows the model that was articulated in the literature and just common sense. First, put it in a location that has a natural draw, the waterfront is a perfect choice. Second, understand that the target market is limited leisure time, not retail, so focus on entertainment and dining. Third, provide abundant parking. It’s not a shock that successful private developers were responsible for the Wharf.

Making other places in the city, already with limited parking, increasingly more challenging and frustrating to get to will have the opposite effect and those neighborhoods that you think are being helped in the end will eventually suffer as people will just use their limited time to go somewhere else that’s more convenient.

So... You want to do all the things I listed? You think that makes for a pleasant place?

Does that list include being convenient to an interstate and providing abundant car parking?

I guess that could be added - that's the kind of things I was thinking you're wanting. So eminent domain a bunch of housing and put down interstates across DC?

Why not just move to Florida or LA if that's what you want?

[Anonymous]

I guess it's good to know that drivers demands are pretty radical and unreasonable. Usually they aren't this honest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I guess it's good to know that drivers demands are pretty radical and unreasonable. Usually they aren't this honest.

What demands? The Wharf is a wildly successful pedestrian zone and it’s located conveniently close to an interstate highway and includes abundant car parking. These things are all related. There’s no demand. The developer clearly took this into account before investing.

Just closing down streets to pedestrianize them will not produce these kinds of results and the research and literature on this presents a number of explanations. Successful pedestrian malls remain the exception.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess it's good to know that drivers demands are pretty radical and unreasonable. Usually they aren't this honest.

What demands? The Wharf is a wildly successful pedestrian zone and it’s located conveniently close to an interstate highway and includes abundant car parking. These things are all related. There’s no demand. The developer clearly took this into account before investing.

Just closing down streets to pedestrianize them will not produce these kinds of results and the research and literature on this presents a number of explanations. Successful pedestrian malls remain the exception.

I don't care too much about the Wharf. What about the rest of DC? You want to make it a drive through full of interstates?