Points for cash in school

[Anonymous]

Any follow up to Chancellor Rhee's Capital Gains plan to let kids earn points for cash for attending school and fulfilling student responsibilities? Do you have the inside scoop on schools where that has been instituted (I think Hardy is one...). It is a year later... how is it playing out?

[Anonymous]

This is the last thing I've seen on it, from March.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/21/AR2009032100760.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is the last thing I've seen on it, from March.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/21/AR2009032100760.html

Thank you; I am very curious about this program. Seems Pavlovian, but hey, so does ringing the chime in responsive classroom. My jury is out since I feel like there are some transactions in society where the worth should be the reward of the process, but people argue the other side well. At the end of the day, I would prefer something other than instant cash payout. Perhaps money towards college, or SAT prep course. Anyhow, would love to hear firsthand from parents of kids involved--was it meaningful or was it punished by rewards?

[Anonymous]

Probably hasn't hurt, but doesn't look sustainable. From kids I talk to every week, the "good" kids would have been good anyway. Much is still arbitrary and kids are very quick to spot inconsistencies which hurts DCPS credibility.

If (when?) the program gets killed due to lack of funding from Harvard and inability to demonstrate results, hopefully there will be meaningful motivation programs to replace it to keep up momentum for critical middle school years. If this year's results and discipline policies don't improve at schools both with and without Capital Gains, then parents will continue to flee to charters rather than risk keeping there kids in an unsafe environment for a few hundred bucks a year.

It's a clever idea that might have a place at sometime, but kids tell me the improved food shows more of a commitment to them over long-term. They know Capital Gains an experiment and not something they can count on over time. It won't help them get into college, but of course they won't turn down money.

It will be interesting to see how NYC does with this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Probably hasn't hurt, but doesn't look sustainable. From kids I talk to every week, the "good" kids would have been good anyway. Much is still arbitrary and kids are very quick to spot inconsistencies which hurts DCPS credibility.

If (when?) the program gets killed due to lack of funding from Harvard and inability to demonstrate results, hopefully there will be meaningful motivation programs to replace it to keep up momentum for critical middle school years. If this year's results and discipline policies don't improve at schools both with and without Capital Gains, then parents will continue to flee to charters rather than risk keeping there kids in an unsafe environment for a few hundred bucks a year.

It's a clever idea that might have a place at sometime, but kids tell me the improved food shows more of a commitment to them over long-term. They know Capital Gains an experiment and not something they can count on over time. It won't help them get into college, but of course they won't turn down money.

It will be interesting to see how NYC does with this.

Thank you for this insight; every fiber of my being screamed "No" when I heard it--but then I said to myself, don't be so uptight. Still, it just contravenes so much of what I hope for and believe to be sustainable in education... by the way, I have worked at job-training programs where people were paid while getting an education. I had no problem with that. But as an elementary teacher now, not a message I like too much. Again, I would not mind credits for college. Just not a straight cash pay-out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Probably hasn't hurt, but doesn't look sustainable. From kids I talk to every week, the "good" kids would have been good anyway. Much is still arbitrary and kids are very quick to spot inconsistencies which hurts DCPS credibility.

If (when?) the program gets killed due to lack of funding from Harvard and inability to demonstrate results, hopefully there will be meaningful motivation programs to replace it to keep up momentum for critical middle school years. If this year's results and discipline policies don't improve at schools both with and without Capital Gains, then parents will continue to flee to charters rather than risk keeping there kids in an unsafe environment for a few hundred bucks a year.

It's a clever idea that might have a place at sometime, but kids tell me the improved food shows more of a commitment to them over long-term. They know Capital Gains an experiment and not something they can count on over time. It won't help them get into college, but of course they won't turn down money.

It will be interesting to see how NYC does with this.

It is beyond sad. I have not heard anything good about this program. Does anyone genuinely deeply believe in it and like it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Probably hasn't hurt, but doesn't look sustainable. From kids I talk to every week, the "good" kids would have been good anyway. Much is still arbitrary and kids are very quick to spot inconsistencies which hurts DCPS credibility.

If (when?) the program gets killed due to lack of funding from Harvard and inability to demonstrate results, hopefully there will be meaningful motivation programs to replace it to keep up momentum for critical middle school years. If this year's results and discipline policies don't improve at schools both with and without Capital Gains, then parents will continue to flee to charters rather than risk keeping there kids in an unsafe environment for a few hundred bucks a year.

It's a clever idea that might have a place at sometime, but kids tell me the improved food shows more of a commitment to them over long-term. They know Capital Gains an experiment and not something they can count on over time. It won't help them get into college, but of course they won't turn down money.

It will be interesting to see how NYC does with this.

It is beyond sad. I have not heard anything good about this program. Does anyone genuinely deeply believe in it and like it?

I like the idea of good food in the lunchroom. My husband claims the 'naked chef' in Britain piloted a healthy lunch program for a regular school there, and half the LD's and behaviors disappeared overnight with good nourishment. Not sure if that is urban legend, but it sounded like an everyone wins fix-it. Better than these cash payouts!

[Anonymous]

And to respond to PP, I would like to hear if anyone deeply believes in/likes it?

[Anonymous]

If this program is being offered at your school, is it possible to opt your child out of it?

As a parent, I have a lot of problems with my kids being given money for grades. I want them to learn it's their obligation to do well whether or not there's any immediate financial reward.

I also don't want them to have money that they think they "earned" and thus have the right to spend on whatever they want (inappropriate dress, tech stuff we don't allow yet, phone, etc.)

We "reward" our child for good grades and good behavior at school with lots of praise and celebrations such as special celebratory dinners or small relevant presents from time to time, but IMO, cold hard cash is going a bit too far.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If this program is being offered at your school, is it possible to opt your child out of it?

As a parent, I have a lot of problems with my kids being given money for grades. I want them to learn it's their obligation to do well whether or not there's any immediate financial reward.

I also don't want them to have money that they think they "earned" and thus have the right to spend on whatever they want (inappropriate dress, tech stuff we don't allow yet, phone, etc.)

We "reward" our child for good grades and good behavior at school with lots of praise and celebrations such as special celebratory dinners or small relevant presents from time to time, but IMO, cold hard cash is going a bit too far.

Yes--our child's allowance is decoupled from grades. It is attached to responsibility -- which underlies grades -- but not grades themselves. It would be annoying to have that logic contravened by school.

The argument for this (I think) is that children from higher income families get cash payouts all the time that allow them to pull ahead, like SAT prep courses and ... and.... well I'm not sure how this argument works actually, or how handing a 6th grader a wad of cash is an incentive to buy in to education and/or succeed like an SAT prep course?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I like the idea of good food in the lunchroom. My husband claims the 'naked chef' in Britain piloted a healthy lunch program for a regular school there, and half the LD's and behaviors disappeared overnight with good nourishment. Not sure if that is urban legend, but it sounded like an everyone wins fix-it. Better than these cash payouts!

I think urban legend is a lot more likely. Sorry to throw cold water on a good story, but you're talking about a Britain, which has been a first world nation for as long as we've understood that modern construct. Had you said Bangladesh, I could well believe that half the LDs and behaviors would disappear overnight with good nutrition, but in countries like Britain (and the United States) to get those sort of results I think you'd have to put everyone on a pharmaceutical cocktail.

[Anonymous]

Next, Oliver began a formal campaign to ban unhealthy food in British schools and get children eating fresh, tasty, nutritious food instead. Oliver's efforts to bring radical change to the school meals system, chronicled in the series "Jamie's School Dinners", challenged the junk food culture by showing schools they could serve healthy, cost-efficient meals that kids enjoyed eating.[5] Jamie's efforts brought the subject of school dinners to the political forefront and changed the types of food served in schools.--Wikipedia

I think this is what he was referring to--not nutritious like basic caloric needs, but less plastic and red dye number 5 . Personally, I watch the children eat their school lunch with one eyebrow raised. It's OK, but I would like to know a bit more about what goes into it for the kids that eat it day after day... and those terrible items they bring for snack! I would support the Chancellor using her points for cash program for points for carrots or an apple...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If this program is being offered at your school, is it possible to opt your child out of it?

As a parent, I have a lot of problems with my kids being given money for grades. I want them to learn it's their obligation to do well whether or not there's any immediate financial reward.

I also don't want them to have money that they think they "earned" and thus have the right to spend on whatever they want (inappropriate dress, tech stuff we don't allow yet, phone, etc.)

We "reward" our child for good grades and good behavior at school with lots of praise and celebrations such as special celebratory dinners or small relevant presents from time to time, but IMO, cold hard cash is going a bit too far.

Yes--our child's allowance is decoupled from grades. It is attached to responsibility -- which underlies grades -- but not grades themselves. It would be annoying to have that logic contravened by school.

The argument for this (I think) is that children from higher income families get cash payouts all the time that allow them to pull ahead, like SAT prep courses and ... and.... well I'm not sure how this argument works actually, or how handing a 6th grader a wad of cash is an incentive to buy in to education and/or succeed like an SAT prep course?

Yikes, $$ coupled to "responsibility" is even worse for me. No one pays you in real life just for showing up at work on time or for not beating up a co-worker. Those things are just basic norms; I don't think you should PAY kids for that.

And, I know my kids. If they got cash in their own name, they surely wouldn't spend it on SAT prep courses .... it would go for an ipod or cellphone or a tv in their room, which I wouldn't allow at their age.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If this program is being offered at your school, is it possible to opt your child out of it?

As a parent, I have a lot of problems with my kids being given money for grades. I want them to learn it's their obligation to do well whether or not there's any immediate financial reward.

I also don't want them to have money that they think they "earned" and thus have the right to spend on whatever they want (inappropriate dress, tech stuff we don't allow yet, phone, etc.)

We "reward" our child for good grades and good behavior at school with lots of praise and celebrations such as special celebratory dinners or small relevant presents from time to time, but IMO, cold hard cash is going a bit too far.

Yes--our child's allowance is decoupled from grades. It is attached to responsibility -- which underlies grades -- but not grades themselves. It would be annoying to have that logic contravened by school.

The argument for this (I think) is that children from higher income families get cash payouts all the time that allow them to pull ahead, like SAT prep courses and ... and.... well I'm not sure how this argument works actually, or how handing a 6th grader a wad of cash is an incentive to buy in to education and/or succeed like an SAT prep course?

Yikes, $$ coupled to "responsibility" is even worse for me. No one pays you in real life just for showing up at work on time or for not beating up a co-worker. Those things are just basic norms; I don't think you should PAY kids for that.

And, I know my kids. If they got cash in their own name, they surely wouldn't spend it on SAT prep courses .... it would go for an ipod or cellphone or a tv in their room, which I wouldn't allow at their age.

Interesting--I am sure there are a bazillion theories on allowance. I started paying my son five dollars a week (one dollar a day) with a basic checklist of chores and responsibilities (bag packed by the door in morning etc.). Maybe that sent a wrong message? I like the idea that chores are something we all do to help the family (ie no money attached or needed to the expectation); how do you do allowance? I call it a privilege that can be earned by filling some responsibilities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yikes, $$ coupled to "responsibility" is even worse for me. No one pays you in real life just for showing up at work on time or for not beating up a co-worker. Those things are just basic norms; I don't think you should PAY kids for that.

And, I know my kids. If they got cash in their own name, they surely wouldn't spend it on SAT prep courses .... it would go for an ipod or cellphone or a tv in their room, which I wouldn't allow at their age.

I don't think I agree with you there. Try not showing up on time, and then when you do show up, beat up a co-worker or two. See how long they keep paying you...