Anonymous wrote:What about the other trend of not marrying at all?
I have coworkers with babies who are not married.
This is the actual trend. But it doesn't fit in with the current narrative being pushed
UMC/rich kids seem to be getting married younger. These kids likely have the support of the rich parents.
Poor and MC young adults may not have the money for a wedding or to buy a house. Our kids will have college, grad school, wedding and at least down payment from the parents. I would rather my kids marry relatively young in their twenties and have kids young.
I come from humble beginnings and traveled a ton in my twenties after I started working. My kids have been traveling internationally since they were young. My kids are still minors and been to Europe and Asia several times and the US/Caribbean countless times. It isn’t like they need to spend their twenties traveling and enjoying life. They have been doing this since being born.
Traveling with mama is not what people mean when they say "travel and see the world." That you would unironically write that tells me so much about you.
DP.
What does “travel and see the world” mean if not travel and see the world, which one can do with their friends, their parents, or even by themselves!
Do you mean getting drunk, high, and having sex with random strangers? That’s the only scenario in which you’re right and one would not get that experience traveling with mama…
No they mean exploring the world on your own without your parents paying for everything and holding your hand the entire time. Navigating a foreign transportation system or a language you don't speak on your own without well-traveled parents who can always step in to explain or guide.
I traveled a ton between birth and age 12 because my dad worked for a huge international company and we lived all over the world as he helped set up offices and factories for them. And then even after we settled in the US so I could have a "normal" high school experience we still traveled abroad a lot. So I was a "well-traveled" kid. But when I traveled in my 20s on my own I learned different things about myself. It was a totally different experience. Independence is a really powerful thing to explore and I do think I would have missed out on something if I'd married straight out of college even though obviously I wasn't lacking in opportunities to travel.
I never did the drinking and drugging and casual sex type of travel btw. I did meet lots of interesting people but I have always known to be cautious when traveling abroad.
You’re speaking from an upper middle class / wealthy bubble. The vast majority of American kids, teens, and young adults will NEVER “see the world”. For the average American family a trip to a single European country for a week is literally a once-in-lifetime event.
So you can continue to split hairs about whether seeing the world as a kid “counts” or not, but just understand that it’s irrelevant.
DP. Isn’t that the topic of this thread?
Anyway, the point was that most young adults would benefit from getting TF out of their hometown. “Seeing the world” doesn’t just mean visiting some tourist trap in Europe.
So wait, are you talking about upper middle class young people who have almost certainly been out of their hometown? Or are you talking about lower class young people who not only have likely not gotten out of their hometown, but will never do so regardless of their age at marriage?
Most young adults should become independent and ideally live somewhere else before settling down.
Why?
DP. If you go directly from being dependent on your parents to being committed to another person, you don’t get many opportunities to make decisions that are purely in your own self-interest, for better or for worse. Regardless of what age one gets married—if they get married—once they start checking the boxes of the traditional nuclear family, they might start to keenly feel the possibilities of how their life might turn out getting narrower and narrower. Which is normal and fine, but there’s that sweet spot right after college where there are just so many possibilities! What a wonderful thing and a great time to take chances, make mistakes with minimal consequences. Figure out what’s really important to
you. The more people you have hitched to you, the harder those risks are to take.
You can of course do that, but it is neither ideal nor necessary. It is merely one way to live your life.
I also can’t help but wonder how many folks on this thread are crowing about the supposed importance of living independently (particularly from their parents) while simultaneously receiving handouts. This area is rife with trust fund babies and people who had their entire undergraduate and graduate educations fully financed by mom and dad. Weddings paid for! Down payment assistance! College savings for the grandkids! And so on.
Some of us had to learn to be independent much earlier than many of the rich kids turned rich adults posting here…
You sound angry and like you have a chip on your shoulder. I'm sorry you didn't have successful parents, but there's nothing wrong with paying for your kid's education, engagement ring, wedding, honeymoon, and helping with a down payment on a first house. There is nothing to romanticize about starting adulthood in some student loan and rental apartment usury trap.
By extension...there's then nothing wrong with subsidizing every expense of your child for life. Of course that happens quite often with massive Trusts for kids.
I don't care one way or the other, but why stop at the things you list?
You're suggesting privileged kids are lazy layabouts, when they're anything but. They're wealthy Type A overachievers. They're going to selective colleges, getting great grades, and they're mindful about finding a spouse. Who you marry is the most important decision of your life. Not seriously looking for a spouse in your prime, when you're surrounded by 10,000-50,000 ambitious peers, is foolish. These kids have it all and they're quickly checking off status and milestone boxes. BA, check. Fiancé or fiancée, check. Grad school, check. Wedding, check. First house, check. Career in a premier city, check. Baby, check.
I’m fascinated that you think a checklist approach to life is desirable or to be emulated. It sounds incredibly depressing to me.
How else can you live? I mean you may not find the right person and that is fine but do you live without a plan and just go as the wind blows you? That is not how high achieving people think. Your plan may not work if you do not find the right person and could be delayed by decades even but your life has to have some structure.
Some of us just live without a checklist, yes. I didn’t seek marriage, I didn’t seek a beautiful apartment in NYC, I didn’t seek a good career. These things found me. All without a try-hard attitude to life.
+1 No checklist here, either. Everything turned out great. I know several type-A checklist people, though, and they are super grating.
“People who live their lives differently from me annoy me even though my life is fine/awesome I swear”
DCUM in a nutshell
I mean, we’re not the ones accusing posters of being bitter femcel cat ladies. So who’s really annoyed by women making different decisions?
Anonymous wrote:What about the other trend of not marrying at all?
I have coworkers with babies who are not married.
This is the actual trend. But it doesn't fit in with the current narrative being pushed
UMC/rich kids seem to be getting married younger. These kids likely have the support of the rich parents.
Poor and MC young adults may not have the money for a wedding or to buy a house. Our kids will have college, grad school, wedding and at least down payment from the parents. I would rather my kids marry relatively young in their twenties and have kids young.
I come from humble beginnings and traveled a ton in my twenties after I started working. My kids have been traveling internationally since they were young. My kids are still minors and been to Europe and Asia several times and the US/Caribbean countless times. It isn’t like they need to spend their twenties traveling and enjoying life. They have been doing this since being born.
Traveling with mama is not what people mean when they say "travel and see the world." That you would unironically write that tells me so much about you.
DP.
What does “travel and see the world” mean if not travel and see the world, which one can do with their friends, their parents, or even by themselves!
Do you mean getting drunk, high, and having sex with random strangers? That’s the only scenario in which you’re right and one would not get that experience traveling with mama…
No they mean exploring the world on your own without your parents paying for everything and holding your hand the entire time. Navigating a foreign transportation system or a language you don't speak on your own without well-traveled parents who can always step in to explain or guide.
I traveled a ton between birth and age 12 because my dad worked for a huge international company and we lived all over the world as he helped set up offices and factories for them. And then even after we settled in the US so I could have a "normal" high school experience we still traveled abroad a lot. So I was a "well-traveled" kid. But when I traveled in my 20s on my own I learned different things about myself. It was a totally different experience. Independence is a really powerful thing to explore and I do think I would have missed out on something if I'd married straight out of college even though obviously I wasn't lacking in opportunities to travel.
I never did the drinking and drugging and casual sex type of travel btw. I did meet lots of interesting people but I have always known to be cautious when traveling abroad.
You’re speaking from an upper middle class / wealthy bubble. The vast majority of American kids, teens, and young adults will NEVER “see the world”. For the average American family a trip to a single European country for a week is literally a once-in-lifetime event.
So you can continue to split hairs about whether seeing the world as a kid “counts” or not, but just understand that it’s irrelevant.
DP. Isn’t that the topic of this thread?
Anyway, the point was that most young adults would benefit from getting TF out of their hometown. “Seeing the world” doesn’t just mean visiting some tourist trap in Europe.
So wait, are you talking about upper middle class young people who have almost certainly been out of their hometown? Or are you talking about lower class young people who not only have likely not gotten out of their hometown, but will never do so regardless of their age at marriage?
Most young adults should become independent and ideally live somewhere else before settling down.
Why?
DP. If you go directly from being dependent on your parents to being committed to another person, you don’t get many opportunities to make decisions that are purely in your own self-interest, for better or for worse. Regardless of what age one gets married—if they get married—once they start checking the boxes of the traditional nuclear family, they might start to keenly feel the possibilities of how their life might turn out getting narrower and narrower. Which is normal and fine, but there’s that sweet spot right after college where there are just so many possibilities! What a wonderful thing and a great time to take chances, make mistakes with minimal consequences. Figure out what’s really important to
you. The more people you have hitched to you, the harder those risks are to take.
You can of course do that, but it is neither ideal nor necessary. It is merely one way to live your life.
I also can’t help but wonder how many folks on this thread are crowing about the supposed importance of living independently (particularly from their parents) while simultaneously receiving handouts. This area is rife with trust fund babies and people who had their entire undergraduate and graduate educations fully financed by mom and dad. Weddings paid for! Down payment assistance! College savings for the grandkids! And so on.
Some of us had to learn to be independent much earlier than many of the rich kids turned rich adults posting here…
You sound angry and like you have a chip on your shoulder. I'm sorry you didn't have successful parents, but there's nothing wrong with paying for your kid's education, engagement ring, wedding, honeymoon, and helping with a down payment on a first house. There is nothing to romanticize about starting adulthood in some student loan and rental apartment usury trap.
By extension...there's then nothing wrong with subsidizing every expense of your child for life. Of course that happens quite often with massive Trusts for kids.
I don't care one way or the other, but why stop at the things you list?
You're suggesting privileged kids are lazy layabouts, when they're anything but. They're wealthy Type A overachievers. They're going to selective colleges, getting great grades, and they're mindful about finding a spouse. Who you marry is the most important decision of your life. Not seriously looking for a spouse in your prime, when you're surrounded by 10,000-50,000 ambitious peers, is foolish. These kids have it all and they're quickly checking off status and milestone boxes. BA, check. Fiancé or fiancée, check. Grad school, check. Wedding, check. First house, check. Career in a premier city, check. Baby, check.
I’m fascinated that you think a checklist approach to life is desirable or to be emulated. It sounds incredibly depressing to me.
How else can you live? I mean you may not find the right person and that is fine but do you live without a plan and just go as the wind blows you? That is not how high achieving people think. Your plan may not work if you do not find the right person and could be delayed by decades even but your life has to have some structure.
Some of us just live without a checklist, yes. I didn’t seek marriage, I didn’t seek a beautiful apartment in NYC, I didn’t seek a good career. These things found me. All without a try-hard attitude to life.
+1 No checklist here, either. Everything turned out great. I know several type-A checklist people, though, and they are super grating.
“People who live their lives differently from me annoy me even though my life is fine/awesome I swear”
Anonymous wrote:What about the other trend of not marrying at all?
I have coworkers with babies who are not married.
This is the actual trend. But it doesn't fit in with the current narrative being pushed
UMC/rich kids seem to be getting married younger. These kids likely have the support of the rich parents.
Poor and MC young adults may not have the money for a wedding or to buy a house. Our kids will have college, grad school, wedding and at least down payment from the parents. I would rather my kids marry relatively young in their twenties and have kids young.
I come from humble beginnings and traveled a ton in my twenties after I started working. My kids have been traveling internationally since they were young. My kids are still minors and been to Europe and Asia several times and the US/Caribbean countless times. It isn’t like they need to spend their twenties traveling and enjoying life. They have been doing this since being born.
Traveling with mama is not what people mean when they say "travel and see the world." That you would unironically write that tells me so much about you.
DP.
What does “travel and see the world” mean if not travel and see the world, which one can do with their friends, their parents, or even by themselves!
Do you mean getting drunk, high, and having sex with random strangers? That’s the only scenario in which you’re right and one would not get that experience traveling with mama…
No they mean exploring the world on your own without your parents paying for everything and holding your hand the entire time. Navigating a foreign transportation system or a language you don't speak on your own without well-traveled parents who can always step in to explain or guide.
I traveled a ton between birth and age 12 because my dad worked for a huge international company and we lived all over the world as he helped set up offices and factories for them. And then even after we settled in the US so I could have a "normal" high school experience we still traveled abroad a lot. So I was a "well-traveled" kid. But when I traveled in my 20s on my own I learned different things about myself. It was a totally different experience. Independence is a really powerful thing to explore and I do think I would have missed out on something if I'd married straight out of college even though obviously I wasn't lacking in opportunities to travel.
I never did the drinking and drugging and casual sex type of travel btw. I did meet lots of interesting people but I have always known to be cautious when traveling abroad.
You’re speaking from an upper middle class / wealthy bubble. The vast majority of American kids, teens, and young adults will NEVER “see the world”. For the average American family a trip to a single European country for a week is literally a once-in-lifetime event.
So you can continue to split hairs about whether seeing the world as a kid “counts” or not, but just understand that it’s irrelevant.
DP. Isn’t that the topic of this thread?
Anyway, the point was that most young adults would benefit from getting TF out of their hometown. “Seeing the world” doesn’t just mean visiting some tourist trap in Europe.
So wait, are you talking about upper middle class young people who have almost certainly been out of their hometown? Or are you talking about lower class young people who not only have likely not gotten out of their hometown, but will never do so regardless of their age at marriage?
Most young adults should become independent and ideally live somewhere else before settling down.
Why?
DP. If you go directly from being dependent on your parents to being committed to another person, you don’t get many opportunities to make decisions that are purely in your own self-interest, for better or for worse. Regardless of what age one gets married—if they get married—once they start checking the boxes of the traditional nuclear family, they might start to keenly feel the possibilities of how their life might turn out getting narrower and narrower. Which is normal and fine, but there’s that sweet spot right after college where there are just so many possibilities! What a wonderful thing and a great time to take chances, make mistakes with minimal consequences. Figure out what’s really important to
you. The more people you have hitched to you, the harder those risks are to take.
You can of course do that, but it is neither ideal nor necessary. It is merely one way to live your life.
I also can’t help but wonder how many folks on this thread are crowing about the supposed importance of living independently (particularly from their parents) while simultaneously receiving handouts. This area is rife with trust fund babies and people who had their entire undergraduate and graduate educations fully financed by mom and dad. Weddings paid for! Down payment assistance! College savings for the grandkids! And so on.
Some of us had to learn to be independent much earlier than many of the rich kids turned rich adults posting here…
You sound angry and like you have a chip on your shoulder. I'm sorry you didn't have successful parents, but there's nothing wrong with paying for your kid's education, engagement ring, wedding, honeymoon, and helping with a down payment on a first house. There is nothing to romanticize about starting adulthood in some student loan and rental apartment usury trap.
By extension...there's then nothing wrong with subsidizing every expense of your child for life. Of course that happens quite often with massive Trusts for kids.
I don't care one way or the other, but why stop at the things you list?
You're suggesting privileged kids are lazy layabouts, when they're anything but. They're wealthy Type A overachievers. They're going to selective colleges, getting great grades, and they're mindful about finding a spouse. Who you marry is the most important decision of your life. Not seriously looking for a spouse in your prime, when you're surrounded by 10,000-50,000 ambitious peers, is foolish. These kids have it all and they're quickly checking off status and milestone boxes. BA, check. Fiancé or fiancée, check. Grad school, check. Wedding, check. First house, check. Career in a premier city, check. Baby, check.
I’m fascinated that you think a checklist approach to life is desirable or to be emulated. It sounds incredibly depressing to me.
How else can you live? I mean you may not find the right person and that is fine but do you live without a plan and just go as the wind blows you? That is not how high achieving people think. Your plan may not work if you do not find the right person and could be delayed by decades even but your life has to have some structure.
Some of us just live without a checklist, yes. I didn’t seek marriage, I didn’t seek a beautiful apartment in NYC, I didn’t seek a good career. These things found me. All without a try-hard attitude to life.
+1 No checklist here, either. Everything turned out great. I know several type-A checklist people, though, and they are super grating.
“People who live their lives differently from me annoy me even though my life is fine/awesome I swear”
DCUM in a nutshell
That’s you projecting there. No one said that.
You seem oddly threatened by normal discourse.
“Stop interrupting my righteous judgment of others!!”
Anonymous wrote:What about the other trend of not marrying at all?
I have coworkers with babies who are not married.
This is the actual trend. But it doesn't fit in with the current narrative being pushed
UMC/rich kids seem to be getting married younger. These kids likely have the support of the rich parents.
Poor and MC young adults may not have the money for a wedding or to buy a house. Our kids will have college, grad school, wedding and at least down payment from the parents. I would rather my kids marry relatively young in their twenties and have kids young.
I come from humble beginnings and traveled a ton in my twenties after I started working. My kids have been traveling internationally since they were young. My kids are still minors and been to Europe and Asia several times and the US/Caribbean countless times. It isn’t like they need to spend their twenties traveling and enjoying life. They have been doing this since being born.
Traveling with mama is not what people mean when they say "travel and see the world." That you would unironically write that tells me so much about you.
DP.
What does “travel and see the world” mean if not travel and see the world, which one can do with their friends, their parents, or even by themselves!
Do you mean getting drunk, high, and having sex with random strangers? That’s the only scenario in which you’re right and one would not get that experience traveling with mama…
No they mean exploring the world on your own without your parents paying for everything and holding your hand the entire time. Navigating a foreign transportation system or a language you don't speak on your own without well-traveled parents who can always step in to explain or guide.
I traveled a ton between birth and age 12 because my dad worked for a huge international company and we lived all over the world as he helped set up offices and factories for them. And then even after we settled in the US so I could have a "normal" high school experience we still traveled abroad a lot. So I was a "well-traveled" kid. But when I traveled in my 20s on my own I learned different things about myself. It was a totally different experience. Independence is a really powerful thing to explore and I do think I would have missed out on something if I'd married straight out of college even though obviously I wasn't lacking in opportunities to travel.
I never did the drinking and drugging and casual sex type of travel btw. I did meet lots of interesting people but I have always known to be cautious when traveling abroad.
You’re speaking from an upper middle class / wealthy bubble. The vast majority of American kids, teens, and young adults will NEVER “see the world”. For the average American family a trip to a single European country for a week is literally a once-in-lifetime event.
So you can continue to split hairs about whether seeing the world as a kid “counts” or not, but just understand that it’s irrelevant.
DP. Isn’t that the topic of this thread?
Anyway, the point was that most young adults would benefit from getting TF out of their hometown. “Seeing the world” doesn’t just mean visiting some tourist trap in Europe.
So wait, are you talking about upper middle class young people who have almost certainly been out of their hometown? Or are you talking about lower class young people who not only have likely not gotten out of their hometown, but will never do so regardless of their age at marriage?
Most young adults should become independent and ideally live somewhere else before settling down.
Why?
DP. If you go directly from being dependent on your parents to being committed to another person, you don’t get many opportunities to make decisions that are purely in your own self-interest, for better or for worse. Regardless of what age one gets married—if they get married—once they start checking the boxes of the traditional nuclear family, they might start to keenly feel the possibilities of how their life might turn out getting narrower and narrower. Which is normal and fine, but there’s that sweet spot right after college where there are just so many possibilities! What a wonderful thing and a great time to take chances, make mistakes with minimal consequences. Figure out what’s really important to
you. The more people you have hitched to you, the harder those risks are to take.
You can of course do that, but it is neither ideal nor necessary. It is merely one way to live your life.
I also can’t help but wonder how many folks on this thread are crowing about the supposed importance of living independently (particularly from their parents) while simultaneously receiving handouts. This area is rife with trust fund babies and people who had their entire undergraduate and graduate educations fully financed by mom and dad. Weddings paid for! Down payment assistance! College savings for the grandkids! And so on.
Some of us had to learn to be independent much earlier than many of the rich kids turned rich adults posting here…
You sound angry and like you have a chip on your shoulder. I'm sorry you didn't have successful parents, but there's nothing wrong with paying for your kid's education, engagement ring, wedding, honeymoon, and helping with a down payment on a first house. There is nothing to romanticize about starting adulthood in some student loan and rental apartment usury trap.
By extension...there's then nothing wrong with subsidizing every expense of your child for life. Of course that happens quite often with massive Trusts for kids.
I don't care one way or the other, but why stop at the things you list?
You're suggesting privileged kids are lazy layabouts, when they're anything but. They're wealthy Type A overachievers. They're going to selective colleges, getting great grades, and they're mindful about finding a spouse. Who you marry is the most important decision of your life. Not seriously looking for a spouse in your prime, when you're surrounded by 10,000-50,000 ambitious peers, is foolish. These kids have it all and they're quickly checking off status and milestone boxes. BA, check. Fiancé or fiancée, check. Grad school, check. Wedding, check. First house, check. Career in a premier city, check. Baby, check.
I’m fascinated that you think a checklist approach to life is desirable or to be emulated. It sounds incredibly depressing to me.
How else can you live? I mean you may not find the right person and that is fine but do you live without a plan and just go as the wind blows you? That is not how high achieving people think. Your plan may not work if you do not find the right person and could be delayed by decades even but your life has to have some structure.
Some of us just live without a checklist, yes. I didn’t seek marriage, I didn’t seek a beautiful apartment in NYC, I didn’t seek a good career. These things found me. All without a try-hard attitude to life.
+1 No checklist here, either. Everything turned out great. I know several type-A checklist people, though, and they are super grating.
“People who live their lives differently from me annoy me even though my life is fine/awesome I swear”
DCUM in a nutshell
That’s you projecting there. No one said that.
You seem oddly threatened by normal discourse.
“You are so ODD and THREATENED by my awesome wordzzz’
Anonymous wrote:I got married at 23 and had my first at 26, in law school. People acted like I was a teen mom. It was ridiculous. I’ve been married for 17 years and I’m really happy with my choices. I have health problems now that could have kept me from having kids in my 30s. So I’m really glad I got that done in my 20s and I would recommend for my children to do the same.
At the same time, I was fairly mature at 23 and knew what I wanted. I knew DH was a good partner.
I wish I could have had children younger. I don't see what the big deal is. Think of how young you'll be when the nest empties!
I’ll be 46 and an empty nester MUAHAHAHA.
My 20s were hard but I’m happy DH was with me. He is the one who put me through law school. We had marriage, law school, babies overlapping and it was super hard but by my mid 30s life was so pleasant. Now nearing 40 my kids are older and I am really enjoying my life. I didn’t travel or date a lot but DH and I have had some fun trips while my parents stay with the kids.
It always stands out to me that young parents seem thrilled to be empty nesters and “enjoying my life.” There is this mindset that you’re happy the phase of having kids is over with.
Did you not enjoy having kids?
Perhaps you had to give up so much in your 20s and you feel like your time is finally your own? I can imagine you had virtually no time to yourself and had to struggle through lawschool if you had young babies at the same time.
I can’t imagine viewing having a family the way you do. I loved my time in my 20s and it’s now great to have a young family in my 40s.
+1! I read that and thought that sounds sad to be so giddy about your kids being gone. I was married young (23) but waited until 30s for kids. I’m glad we still have a way to go with them under my roof. In my 40s now.
Agree with this. I'm happy for anyone who is happy with their life choices, but I'd rather have kids later and spend much of my middle age years with kids in the house because this is when I most want to be home and don't feel curtailed by kids. I went out and traveled a lot in my 20s and early 30s -- by the time I got pregnant that was no longer as appealing to me and I was very ready to stay in more and have a more family-centric life. And no I was not out drinking and doing drugs and sleeping around -- I was just going out to dinner with friends, traveling to fun places, dating (but not having a ton of sex actually), and trying new hobbies. And now I'm eating dinners with my family and helping with homework and sewing halloween costumes... and happily going to bed at 9:30pm on a Friday.
This. Can’t imagine wanting my life to be limited by kids in my 20s. Someone who thinks this is the best option simply missed out on their 20s and doesn’t know any better.
You may as well try to convince me that the best time to have kids is high school.
You are limited by kids later then. This is not better or worse just different. They get their freedom too just later.
So if you spend Saturday night at home and hit the playground in the afternoon - you’d rather do this at 26 as opposed to 42?
At 42 you think you’ll have the same desire to party, socialize and travel that you did at 26? Even if I didn’t have kids, I can’t handle alcohol like I did at 26 and have slowed down significantly. I prefer evenings at home and my large suburban house.
This is ignoring a woman’s career and earning potential is way more limited by having children young. When I was 26 I would have had less parental leave and less flexibility.
My guess is you missed out on your 20s so you don’t know any better.
Not me. Loved my 20s, did a lot of traveling then and now as a family with 3 kids - had my first at 28. But handling teens at 46 takes a lot of energy out of me, can’t imagine doing that ten years later.
Anonymous wrote:What about the other trend of not marrying at all?
I have coworkers with babies who are not married.
This is the actual trend. But it doesn't fit in with the current narrative being pushed
UMC/rich kids seem to be getting married younger. These kids likely have the support of the rich parents.
Poor and MC young adults may not have the money for a wedding or to buy a house. Our kids will have college, grad school, wedding and at least down payment from the parents. I would rather my kids marry relatively young in their twenties and have kids young.
I come from humble beginnings and traveled a ton in my twenties after I started working. My kids have been traveling internationally since they were young. My kids are still minors and been to Europe and Asia several times and the US/Caribbean countless times. It isn’t like they need to spend their twenties traveling and enjoying life. They have been doing this since being born.
Traveling with mama is not what people mean when they say "travel and see the world." That you would unironically write that tells me so much about you.
DP.
What does “travel and see the world” mean if not travel and see the world, which one can do with their friends, their parents, or even by themselves!
Do you mean getting drunk, high, and having sex with random strangers? That’s the only scenario in which you’re right and one would not get that experience traveling with mama…
No they mean exploring the world on your own without your parents paying for everything and holding your hand the entire time. Navigating a foreign transportation system or a language you don't speak on your own without well-traveled parents who can always step in to explain or guide.
I traveled a ton between birth and age 12 because my dad worked for a huge international company and we lived all over the world as he helped set up offices and factories for them. And then even after we settled in the US so I could have a "normal" high school experience we still traveled abroad a lot. So I was a "well-traveled" kid. But when I traveled in my 20s on my own I learned different things about myself. It was a totally different experience. Independence is a really powerful thing to explore and I do think I would have missed out on something if I'd married straight out of college even though obviously I wasn't lacking in opportunities to travel.
I never did the drinking and drugging and casual sex type of travel btw. I did meet lots of interesting people but I have always known to be cautious when traveling abroad.
You’re speaking from an upper middle class / wealthy bubble. The vast majority of American kids, teens, and young adults will NEVER “see the world”. For the average American family a trip to a single European country for a week is literally a once-in-lifetime event.
So you can continue to split hairs about whether seeing the world as a kid “counts” or not, but just understand that it’s irrelevant.
DP. Isn’t that the topic of this thread?
Anyway, the point was that most young adults would benefit from getting TF out of their hometown. “Seeing the world” doesn’t just mean visiting some tourist trap in Europe.
So wait, are you talking about upper middle class young people who have almost certainly been out of their hometown? Or are you talking about lower class young people who not only have likely not gotten out of their hometown, but will never do so regardless of their age at marriage?
Most young adults should become independent and ideally live somewhere else before settling down.
Why?
DP. If you go directly from being dependent on your parents to being committed to another person, you don’t get many opportunities to make decisions that are purely in your own self-interest, for better or for worse. Regardless of what age one gets married—if they get married—once they start checking the boxes of the traditional nuclear family, they might start to keenly feel the possibilities of how their life might turn out getting narrower and narrower. Which is normal and fine, but there’s that sweet spot right after college where there are just so many possibilities! What a wonderful thing and a great time to take chances, make mistakes with minimal consequences. Figure out what’s really important to
you. The more people you have hitched to you, the harder those risks are to take.
You can of course do that, but it is neither ideal nor necessary. It is merely one way to live your life.
I also can’t help but wonder how many folks on this thread are crowing about the supposed importance of living independently (particularly from their parents) while simultaneously receiving handouts. This area is rife with trust fund babies and people who had their entire undergraduate and graduate educations fully financed by mom and dad. Weddings paid for! Down payment assistance! College savings for the grandkids! And so on.
Some of us had to learn to be independent much earlier than many of the rich kids turned rich adults posting here…
You sound angry and like you have a chip on your shoulder. I'm sorry you didn't have successful parents, but there's nothing wrong with paying for your kid's education, engagement ring, wedding, honeymoon, and helping with a down payment on a first house. There is nothing to romanticize about starting adulthood in some student loan and rental apartment usury trap.
By extension...there's then nothing wrong with subsidizing every expense of your child for life. Of course that happens quite often with massive Trusts for kids.
I don't care one way or the other, but why stop at the things you list?
You're suggesting privileged kids are lazy layabouts, when they're anything but. They're wealthy Type A overachievers. They're going to selective colleges, getting great grades, and they're mindful about finding a spouse. Who you marry is the most important decision of your life. Not seriously looking for a spouse in your prime, when you're surrounded by 10,000-50,000 ambitious peers, is foolish. These kids have it all and they're quickly checking off status and milestone boxes. BA, check. Fiancé or fiancée, check. Grad school, check. Wedding, check. First house, check. Career in a premier city, check. Baby, check.
I’m fascinated that you think a checklist approach to life is desirable or to be emulated. It sounds incredibly depressing to me.
How else can you live? I mean you may not find the right person and that is fine but do you live without a plan and just go as the wind blows you? That is not how high achieving people think. Your plan may not work if you do not find the right person and could be delayed by decades even but your life has to have some structure.
Some of us just live without a checklist, yes. I didn’t seek marriage, I didn’t seek a beautiful apartment in NYC, I didn’t seek a good career. These things found me. All without a try-hard attitude to life.
+1 No checklist here, either. Everything turned out great. I know several type-A checklist people, though, and they are super grating.
“People who live their lives differently from me annoy me even though my life is fine/awesome I swear”
DCUM in a nutshell
That’s you projecting there. No one said that.
You seem oddly threatened by normal discourse.
“You are so ODD and THREATENED by my awesome wordzzz’
-Also DCUM in a nutshell
Does Entertainment Weekly have a forum? Maybe that’s more your speed.
Anonymous wrote:What about the other trend of not marrying at all?
I have coworkers with babies who are not married.
This is the actual trend. But it doesn't fit in with the current narrative being pushed
UMC/rich kids seem to be getting married younger. These kids likely have the support of the rich parents.
Poor and MC young adults may not have the money for a wedding or to buy a house. Our kids will have college, grad school, wedding and at least down payment from the parents. I would rather my kids marry relatively young in their twenties and have kids young.
I come from humble beginnings and traveled a ton in my twenties after I started working. My kids have been traveling internationally since they were young. My kids are still minors and been to Europe and Asia several times and the US/Caribbean countless times. It isn’t like they need to spend their twenties traveling and enjoying life. They have been doing this since being born.
Traveling with mama is not what people mean when they say "travel and see the world." That you would unironically write that tells me so much about you.
DP.
What does “travel and see the world” mean if not travel and see the world, which one can do with their friends, their parents, or even by themselves!
Do you mean getting drunk, high, and having sex with random strangers? That’s the only scenario in which you’re right and one would not get that experience traveling with mama…
No they mean exploring the world on your own without your parents paying for everything and holding your hand the entire time. Navigating a foreign transportation system or a language you don't speak on your own without well-traveled parents who can always step in to explain or guide.
I traveled a ton between birth and age 12 because my dad worked for a huge international company and we lived all over the world as he helped set up offices and factories for them. And then even after we settled in the US so I could have a "normal" high school experience we still traveled abroad a lot. So I was a "well-traveled" kid. But when I traveled in my 20s on my own I learned different things about myself. It was a totally different experience. Independence is a really powerful thing to explore and I do think I would have missed out on something if I'd married straight out of college even though obviously I wasn't lacking in opportunities to travel.
I never did the drinking and drugging and casual sex type of travel btw. I did meet lots of interesting people but I have always known to be cautious when traveling abroad.
You’re speaking from an upper middle class / wealthy bubble. The vast majority of American kids, teens, and young adults will NEVER “see the world”. For the average American family a trip to a single European country for a week is literally a once-in-lifetime event.
So you can continue to split hairs about whether seeing the world as a kid “counts” or not, but just understand that it’s irrelevant.
DP. Isn’t that the topic of this thread?
Anyway, the point was that most young adults would benefit from getting TF out of their hometown. “Seeing the world” doesn’t just mean visiting some tourist trap in Europe.
So wait, are you talking about upper middle class young people who have almost certainly been out of their hometown? Or are you talking about lower class young people who not only have likely not gotten out of their hometown, but will never do so regardless of their age at marriage?
Most young adults should become independent and ideally live somewhere else before settling down.
Why?
DP. If you go directly from being dependent on your parents to being committed to another person, you don’t get many opportunities to make decisions that are purely in your own self-interest, for better or for worse. Regardless of what age one gets married—if they get married—once they start checking the boxes of the traditional nuclear family, they might start to keenly feel the possibilities of how their life might turn out getting narrower and narrower. Which is normal and fine, but there’s that sweet spot right after college where there are just so many possibilities! What a wonderful thing and a great time to take chances, make mistakes with minimal consequences. Figure out what’s really important to
you. The more people you have hitched to you, the harder those risks are to take.
You can of course do that, but it is neither ideal nor necessary. It is merely one way to live your life.
I also can’t help but wonder how many folks on this thread are crowing about the supposed importance of living independently (particularly from their parents) while simultaneously receiving handouts. This area is rife with trust fund babies and people who had their entire undergraduate and graduate educations fully financed by mom and dad. Weddings paid for! Down payment assistance! College savings for the grandkids! And so on.
Some of us had to learn to be independent much earlier than many of the rich kids turned rich adults posting here…
You sound angry and like you have a chip on your shoulder. I'm sorry you didn't have successful parents, but there's nothing wrong with paying for your kid's education, engagement ring, wedding, honeymoon, and helping with a down payment on a first house. There is nothing to romanticize about starting adulthood in some student loan and rental apartment usury trap.
By extension...there's then nothing wrong with subsidizing every expense of your child for life. Of course that happens quite often with massive Trusts for kids.
I don't care one way or the other, but why stop at the things you list?
You're suggesting privileged kids are lazy layabouts, when they're anything but. They're wealthy Type A overachievers. They're going to selective colleges, getting great grades, and they're mindful about finding a spouse. Who you marry is the most important decision of your life. Not seriously looking for a spouse in your prime, when you're surrounded by 10,000-50,000 ambitious peers, is foolish. These kids have it all and they're quickly checking off status and milestone boxes. BA, check. Fiancé or fiancée, check. Grad school, check. Wedding, check. First house, check. Career in a premier city, check. Baby, check.
I’m fascinated that you think a checklist approach to life is desirable or to be emulated. It sounds incredibly depressing to me.
How else can you live? I mean you may not find the right person and that is fine but do you live without a plan and just go as the wind blows you? That is not how high achieving people think. Your plan may not work if you do not find the right person and could be delayed by decades even but your life has to have some structure.
Seems neurotic to think this way at 21. Also, short sighted. People should live their lives independently for a while after 18. Go travel. See the world. Sleep around a bit. Party. Obviously, they should go to college. And grad school is preferable. But to be so anxious and neurotic about locking down “the one” at 21 or 22 and married by like 23. Fking idiotic. The adult brain is only fully formed by mid 30’s based on the latest studies. Who you are at 21 will be vastly different at 41. You might even stunt your own growth getting married at 22. It’s just so fking boring.
You are projecting.
Smart, attractive, ambitious, and mature college students know the most important decision they make in life is who they marry. These highest value young adults quickly pair and marry. Many of the lower value leftovers will never marry, and never reproduce, or will need apps to find each other and settle in their 30s.
It is likely that moving forward it’s going to be a Gen Z ‘tell’ that you’re high value if you married in your 20s and established a life together with your spouse.
Anonymous wrote:What about the other trend of not marrying at all?
I have coworkers with babies who are not married.
This is the actual trend. But it doesn't fit in with the current narrative being pushed
UMC/rich kids seem to be getting married younger. These kids likely have the support of the rich parents.
Poor and MC young adults may not have the money for a wedding or to buy a house. Our kids will have college, grad school, wedding and at least down payment from the parents. I would rather my kids marry relatively young in their twenties and have kids young.
I come from humble beginnings and traveled a ton in my twenties after I started working. My kids have been traveling internationally since they were young. My kids are still minors and been to Europe and Asia several times and the US/Caribbean countless times. It isn’t like they need to spend their twenties traveling and enjoying life. They have been doing this since being born.
Traveling with mama is not what people mean when they say "travel and see the world." That you would unironically write that tells me so much about you.
DP.
What does “travel and see the world” mean if not travel and see the world, which one can do with their friends, their parents, or even by themselves!
Do you mean getting drunk, high, and having sex with random strangers? That’s the only scenario in which you’re right and one would not get that experience traveling with mama…
No they mean exploring the world on your own without your parents paying for everything and holding your hand the entire time. Navigating a foreign transportation system or a language you don't speak on your own without well-traveled parents who can always step in to explain or guide.
I traveled a ton between birth and age 12 because my dad worked for a huge international company and we lived all over the world as he helped set up offices and factories for them. And then even after we settled in the US so I could have a "normal" high school experience we still traveled abroad a lot. So I was a "well-traveled" kid. But when I traveled in my 20s on my own I learned different things about myself. It was a totally different experience. Independence is a really powerful thing to explore and I do think I would have missed out on something if I'd married straight out of college even though obviously I wasn't lacking in opportunities to travel.
I never did the drinking and drugging and casual sex type of travel btw. I did meet lots of interesting people but I have always known to be cautious when traveling abroad.
You’re speaking from an upper middle class / wealthy bubble. The vast majority of American kids, teens, and young adults will NEVER “see the world”. For the average American family a trip to a single European country for a week is literally a once-in-lifetime event.
So you can continue to split hairs about whether seeing the world as a kid “counts” or not, but just understand that it’s irrelevant.
DP. Isn’t that the topic of this thread?
Anyway, the point was that most young adults would benefit from getting TF out of their hometown. “Seeing the world” doesn’t just mean visiting some tourist trap in Europe.
So wait, are you talking about upper middle class young people who have almost certainly been out of their hometown? Or are you talking about lower class young people who not only have likely not gotten out of their hometown, but will never do so regardless of their age at marriage?
Most young adults should become independent and ideally live somewhere else before settling down.
Why?
DP. If you go directly from being dependent on your parents to being committed to another person, you don’t get many opportunities to make decisions that are purely in your own self-interest, for better or for worse. Regardless of what age one gets married—if they get married—once they start checking the boxes of the traditional nuclear family, they might start to keenly feel the possibilities of how their life might turn out getting narrower and narrower. Which is normal and fine, but there’s that sweet spot right after college where there are just so many possibilities! What a wonderful thing and a great time to take chances, make mistakes with minimal consequences. Figure out what’s really important to
you. The more people you have hitched to you, the harder those risks are to take.
You can of course do that, but it is neither ideal nor necessary. It is merely one way to live your life.
I also can’t help but wonder how many folks on this thread are crowing about the supposed importance of living independently (particularly from their parents) while simultaneously receiving handouts. This area is rife with trust fund babies and people who had their entire undergraduate and graduate educations fully financed by mom and dad. Weddings paid for! Down payment assistance! College savings for the grandkids! And so on.
Some of us had to learn to be independent much earlier than many of the rich kids turned rich adults posting here…
You sound angry and like you have a chip on your shoulder. I'm sorry you didn't have successful parents, but there's nothing wrong with paying for your kid's education, engagement ring, wedding, honeymoon, and helping with a down payment on a first house. There is nothing to romanticize about starting adulthood in some student loan and rental apartment usury trap.
By extension...there's then nothing wrong with subsidizing every expense of your child for life. Of course that happens quite often with massive Trusts for kids.
I don't care one way or the other, but why stop at the things you list?
You're suggesting privileged kids are lazy layabouts, when they're anything but. They're wealthy Type A overachievers. They're going to selective colleges, getting great grades, and they're mindful about finding a spouse. Who you marry is the most important decision of your life. Not seriously looking for a spouse in your prime, when you're surrounded by 10,000-50,000 ambitious peers, is foolish. These kids have it all and they're quickly checking off status and milestone boxes. BA, check. Fiancé or fiancée, check. Grad school, check. Wedding, check. First house, check. Career in a premier city, check. Baby, check.
I’m fascinated that you think a checklist approach to life is desirable or to be emulated. It sounds incredibly depressing to me.
How else can you live? I mean you may not find the right person and that is fine but do you live without a plan and just go as the wind blows you? That is not how high achieving people think. Your plan may not work if you do not find the right person and could be delayed by decades even but your life has to have some structure.
Seems neurotic to think this way at 21. Also, short sighted. People should live their lives independently for a while after 18. Go travel. See the world. Sleep around a bit. Party. Obviously, they should go to college. And grad school is preferable. But to be so anxious and neurotic about locking down “the one” at 21 or 22 and married by like 23. Fking idiotic. The adult brain is only fully formed by mid 30’s based on the latest studies. Who you are at 21 will be vastly different at 41. You might even stunt your own growth getting married at 22. It’s just so fking boring.
You are projecting.
Smart, attractive, ambitious, and mature college students know the most important decision they make in life is who they marry. These highest value young adults quickly pair and marry. Many of the lower value leftovers will never marry, and never reproduce, or will need apps to find each other and settle in their 30s.
It is likely that moving forward it’s going to be a Gen Z ‘tell’ that you’re high value if you married in your 20s and established a life together with your spouse.
How old are you? Where do you live? How many children do you have, and what ages?
Anonymous wrote:What about the other trend of not marrying at all?
I have coworkers with babies who are not married.
This is the actual trend. But it doesn't fit in with the current narrative being pushed
UMC/rich kids seem to be getting married younger. These kids likely have the support of the rich parents.
Poor and MC young adults may not have the money for a wedding or to buy a house. Our kids will have college, grad school, wedding and at least down payment from the parents. I would rather my kids marry relatively young in their twenties and have kids young.
I come from humble beginnings and traveled a ton in my twenties after I started working. My kids have been traveling internationally since they were young. My kids are still minors and been to Europe and Asia several times and the US/Caribbean countless times. It isn’t like they need to spend their twenties traveling and enjoying life. They have been doing this since being born.
Traveling with mama is not what people mean when they say "travel and see the world." That you would unironically write that tells me so much about you.
DP.
What does “travel and see the world” mean if not travel and see the world, which one can do with their friends, their parents, or even by themselves!
Do you mean getting drunk, high, and having sex with random strangers? That’s the only scenario in which you’re right and one would not get that experience traveling with mama…
No they mean exploring the world on your own without your parents paying for everything and holding your hand the entire time. Navigating a foreign transportation system or a language you don't speak on your own without well-traveled parents who can always step in to explain or guide.
I traveled a ton between birth and age 12 because my dad worked for a huge international company and we lived all over the world as he helped set up offices and factories for them. And then even after we settled in the US so I could have a "normal" high school experience we still traveled abroad a lot. So I was a "well-traveled" kid. But when I traveled in my 20s on my own I learned different things about myself. It was a totally different experience. Independence is a really powerful thing to explore and I do think I would have missed out on something if I'd married straight out of college even though obviously I wasn't lacking in opportunities to travel.
I never did the drinking and drugging and casual sex type of travel btw. I did meet lots of interesting people but I have always known to be cautious when traveling abroad.
You’re speaking from an upper middle class / wealthy bubble. The vast majority of American kids, teens, and young adults will NEVER “see the world”. For the average American family a trip to a single European country for a week is literally a once-in-lifetime event.
So you can continue to split hairs about whether seeing the world as a kid “counts” or not, but just understand that it’s irrelevant.
DP. Isn’t that the topic of this thread?
Anyway, the point was that most young adults would benefit from getting TF out of their hometown. “Seeing the world” doesn’t just mean visiting some tourist trap in Europe.
So wait, are you talking about upper middle class young people who have almost certainly been out of their hometown? Or are you talking about lower class young people who not only have likely not gotten out of their hometown, but will never do so regardless of their age at marriage?
Most young adults should become independent and ideally live somewhere else before settling down.
Why?
DP. If you go directly from being dependent on your parents to being committed to another person, you don’t get many opportunities to make decisions that are purely in your own self-interest, for better or for worse. Regardless of what age one gets married—if they get married—once they start checking the boxes of the traditional nuclear family, they might start to keenly feel the possibilities of how their life might turn out getting narrower and narrower. Which is normal and fine, but there’s that sweet spot right after college where there are just so many possibilities! What a wonderful thing and a great time to take chances, make mistakes with minimal consequences. Figure out what’s really important to
you. The more people you have hitched to you, the harder those risks are to take.
You can of course do that, but it is neither ideal nor necessary. It is merely one way to live your life.
I also can’t help but wonder how many folks on this thread are crowing about the supposed importance of living independently (particularly from their parents) while simultaneously receiving handouts. This area is rife with trust fund babies and people who had their entire undergraduate and graduate educations fully financed by mom and dad. Weddings paid for! Down payment assistance! College savings for the grandkids! And so on.
Some of us had to learn to be independent much earlier than many of the rich kids turned rich adults posting here…
You sound angry and like you have a chip on your shoulder. I'm sorry you didn't have successful parents, but there's nothing wrong with paying for your kid's education, engagement ring, wedding, honeymoon, and helping with a down payment on a first house. There is nothing to romanticize about starting adulthood in some student loan and rental apartment usury trap.
By extension...there's then nothing wrong with subsidizing every expense of your child for life. Of course that happens quite often with massive Trusts for kids.
I don't care one way or the other, but why stop at the things you list?
You're suggesting privileged kids are lazy layabouts, when they're anything but. They're wealthy Type A overachievers. They're going to selective colleges, getting great grades, and they're mindful about finding a spouse. Who you marry is the most important decision of your life. Not seriously looking for a spouse in your prime, when you're surrounded by 10,000-50,000 ambitious peers, is foolish. These kids have it all and they're quickly checking off status and milestone boxes. BA, check. Fiancé or fiancée, check. Grad school, check. Wedding, check. First house, check. Career in a premier city, check. Baby, check.
I’m fascinated that you think a checklist approach to life is desirable or to be emulated. It sounds incredibly depressing to me.
How else can you live? I mean you may not find the right person and that is fine but do you live without a plan and just go as the wind blows you? That is not how high achieving people think. Your plan may not work if you do not find the right person and could be delayed by decades even but your life has to have some structure.
Some of us just live without a checklist, yes. I didn’t seek marriage, I didn’t seek a beautiful apartment in NYC, I didn’t seek a good career. These things found me. All without a try-hard attitude to life.
+1 No checklist here, either. Everything turned out great. I know several type-A checklist people, though, and they are super grating.
“People who live their lives differently from me annoy me even though my life is fine/awesome I swear”
DCUM in a nutshell
I mean, we’re not the ones accusing posters of being bitter femcel cat ladies. So who’s really annoyed by women making different decisions?
Nobody really cares about your life mistakes enough to be annoyed by them. The thread is about smart Gen Zs wising up and looking at older generations serial dating, hookup culture, alcohol abuse, consumerism, IVF babies (if babies at all), and making a job your life as cringe and pathetic.
Anonymous wrote:What about the other trend of not marrying at all?
I have coworkers with babies who are not married.
This is the actual trend. But it doesn't fit in with the current narrative being pushed
UMC/rich kids seem to be getting married younger. These kids likely have the support of the rich parents.
Poor and MC young adults may not have the money for a wedding or to buy a house. Our kids will have college, grad school, wedding and at least down payment from the parents. I would rather my kids marry relatively young in their twenties and have kids young.
I come from humble beginnings and traveled a ton in my twenties after I started working. My kids have been traveling internationally since they were young. My kids are still minors and been to Europe and Asia several times and the US/Caribbean countless times. It isn’t like they need to spend their twenties traveling and enjoying life. They have been doing this since being born.
Traveling with mama is not what people mean when they say "travel and see the world." That you would unironically write that tells me so much about you.
DP.
What does “travel and see the world” mean if not travel and see the world, which one can do with their friends, their parents, or even by themselves!
Do you mean getting drunk, high, and having sex with random strangers? That’s the only scenario in which you’re right and one would not get that experience traveling with mama…
No they mean exploring the world on your own without your parents paying for everything and holding your hand the entire time. Navigating a foreign transportation system or a language you don't speak on your own without well-traveled parents who can always step in to explain or guide.
I traveled a ton between birth and age 12 because my dad worked for a huge international company and we lived all over the world as he helped set up offices and factories for them. And then even after we settled in the US so I could have a "normal" high school experience we still traveled abroad a lot. So I was a "well-traveled" kid. But when I traveled in my 20s on my own I learned different things about myself. It was a totally different experience. Independence is a really powerful thing to explore and I do think I would have missed out on something if I'd married straight out of college even though obviously I wasn't lacking in opportunities to travel.
I never did the drinking and drugging and casual sex type of travel btw. I did meet lots of interesting people but I have always known to be cautious when traveling abroad.
You’re speaking from an upper middle class / wealthy bubble. The vast majority of American kids, teens, and young adults will NEVER “see the world”. For the average American family a trip to a single European country for a week is literally a once-in-lifetime event.
So you can continue to split hairs about whether seeing the world as a kid “counts” or not, but just understand that it’s irrelevant.
DP. Isn’t that the topic of this thread?
Anyway, the point was that most young adults would benefit from getting TF out of their hometown. “Seeing the world” doesn’t just mean visiting some tourist trap in Europe.
So wait, are you talking about upper middle class young people who have almost certainly been out of their hometown? Or are you talking about lower class young people who not only have likely not gotten out of their hometown, but will never do so regardless of their age at marriage?
Most young adults should become independent and ideally live somewhere else before settling down.
Why?
DP. If you go directly from being dependent on your parents to being committed to another person, you don’t get many opportunities to make decisions that are purely in your own self-interest, for better or for worse. Regardless of what age one gets married—if they get married—once they start checking the boxes of the traditional nuclear family, they might start to keenly feel the possibilities of how their life might turn out getting narrower and narrower. Which is normal and fine, but there’s that sweet spot right after college where there are just so many possibilities! What a wonderful thing and a great time to take chances, make mistakes with minimal consequences. Figure out what’s really important to
you. The more people you have hitched to you, the harder those risks are to take.
You can of course do that, but it is neither ideal nor necessary. It is merely one way to live your life.
I also can’t help but wonder how many folks on this thread are crowing about the supposed importance of living independently (particularly from their parents) while simultaneously receiving handouts. This area is rife with trust fund babies and people who had their entire undergraduate and graduate educations fully financed by mom and dad. Weddings paid for! Down payment assistance! College savings for the grandkids! And so on.
Some of us had to learn to be independent much earlier than many of the rich kids turned rich adults posting here…
You sound angry and like you have a chip on your shoulder. I'm sorry you didn't have successful parents, but there's nothing wrong with paying for your kid's education, engagement ring, wedding, honeymoon, and helping with a down payment on a first house. There is nothing to romanticize about starting adulthood in some student loan and rental apartment usury trap.
By extension...there's then nothing wrong with subsidizing every expense of your child for life. Of course that happens quite often with massive Trusts for kids.
I don't care one way or the other, but why stop at the things you list?
You're suggesting privileged kids are lazy layabouts, when they're anything but. They're wealthy Type A overachievers. They're going to selective colleges, getting great grades, and they're mindful about finding a spouse. Who you marry is the most important decision of your life. Not seriously looking for a spouse in your prime, when you're surrounded by 10,000-50,000 ambitious peers, is foolish. These kids have it all and they're quickly checking off status and milestone boxes. BA, check. Fiancé or fiancée, check. Grad school, check. Wedding, check. First house, check. Career in a premier city, check. Baby, check.
I’m fascinated that you think a checklist approach to life is desirable or to be emulated. It sounds incredibly depressing to me.
How else can you live? I mean you may not find the right person and that is fine but do you live without a plan and just go as the wind blows you? That is not how high achieving people think. Your plan may not work if you do not find the right person and could be delayed by decades even but your life has to have some structure.
Some of us just live without a checklist, yes. I didn’t seek marriage, I didn’t seek a beautiful apartment in NYC, I didn’t seek a good career. These things found me. All without a try-hard attitude to life.
+1 No checklist here, either. Everything turned out great. I know several type-A checklist people, though, and they are super grating.
“People who live their lives differently from me annoy me even though my life is fine/awesome I swear”
DCUM in a nutshell
I mean, we’re not the ones accusing posters of being bitter femcel cat ladies. So who’s really annoyed by women making different decisions?
Nobody really cares about your life mistakes enough to be annoyed by them. The thread is about smart Gen Zs wising up and looking at older generations serial dating, hookup culture, alcohol abuse, consumerism, IVF babies (if babies at all), and making a job your life as cringe and pathetic.
It’s starting to feel like there’s one crazy person doing most of this kind of posting. These talking points are the same over and over.
Anonymous wrote:What about the other trend of not marrying at all?
I have coworkers with babies who are not married.
This is the actual trend. But it doesn't fit in with the current narrative being pushed
UMC/rich kids seem to be getting married younger. These kids likely have the support of the rich parents.
Poor and MC young adults may not have the money for a wedding or to buy a house. Our kids will have college, grad school, wedding and at least down payment from the parents. I would rather my kids marry relatively young in their twenties and have kids young.
I come from humble beginnings and traveled a ton in my twenties after I started working. My kids have been traveling internationally since they were young. My kids are still minors and been to Europe and Asia several times and the US/Caribbean countless times. It isn’t like they need to spend their twenties traveling and enjoying life. They have been doing this since being born.
Traveling with mama is not what people mean when they say "travel and see the world." That you would unironically write that tells me so much about you.
DP.
What does “travel and see the world” mean if not travel and see the world, which one can do with their friends, their parents, or even by themselves!
Do you mean getting drunk, high, and having sex with random strangers? That’s the only scenario in which you’re right and one would not get that experience traveling with mama…
No they mean exploring the world on your own without your parents paying for everything and holding your hand the entire time. Navigating a foreign transportation system or a language you don't speak on your own without well-traveled parents who can always step in to explain or guide.
I traveled a ton between birth and age 12 because my dad worked for a huge international company and we lived all over the world as he helped set up offices and factories for them. And then even after we settled in the US so I could have a "normal" high school experience we still traveled abroad a lot. So I was a "well-traveled" kid. But when I traveled in my 20s on my own I learned different things about myself. It was a totally different experience. Independence is a really powerful thing to explore and I do think I would have missed out on something if I'd married straight out of college even though obviously I wasn't lacking in opportunities to travel.
I never did the drinking and drugging and casual sex type of travel btw. I did meet lots of interesting people but I have always known to be cautious when traveling abroad.
You’re speaking from an upper middle class / wealthy bubble. The vast majority of American kids, teens, and young adults will NEVER “see the world”. For the average American family a trip to a single European country for a week is literally a once-in-lifetime event.
So you can continue to split hairs about whether seeing the world as a kid “counts” or not, but just understand that it’s irrelevant.
DP. Isn’t that the topic of this thread?
Anyway, the point was that most young adults would benefit from getting TF out of their hometown. “Seeing the world” doesn’t just mean visiting some tourist trap in Europe.
So wait, are you talking about upper middle class young people who have almost certainly been out of their hometown? Or are you talking about lower class young people who not only have likely not gotten out of their hometown, but will never do so regardless of their age at marriage?
Most young adults should become independent and ideally live somewhere else before settling down.
Why?
DP. If you go directly from being dependent on your parents to being committed to another person, you don’t get many opportunities to make decisions that are purely in your own self-interest, for better or for worse. Regardless of what age one gets married—if they get married—once they start checking the boxes of the traditional nuclear family, they might start to keenly feel the possibilities of how their life might turn out getting narrower and narrower. Which is normal and fine, but there’s that sweet spot right after college where there are just so many possibilities! What a wonderful thing and a great time to take chances, make mistakes with minimal consequences. Figure out what’s really important to
you. The more people you have hitched to you, the harder those risks are to take.
You can of course do that, but it is neither ideal nor necessary. It is merely one way to live your life.
I also can’t help but wonder how many folks on this thread are crowing about the supposed importance of living independently (particularly from their parents) while simultaneously receiving handouts. This area is rife with trust fund babies and people who had their entire undergraduate and graduate educations fully financed by mom and dad. Weddings paid for! Down payment assistance! College savings for the grandkids! And so on.
Some of us had to learn to be independent much earlier than many of the rich kids turned rich adults posting here…
You sound angry and like you have a chip on your shoulder. I'm sorry you didn't have successful parents, but there's nothing wrong with paying for your kid's education, engagement ring, wedding, honeymoon, and helping with a down payment on a first house. There is nothing to romanticize about starting adulthood in some student loan and rental apartment usury trap.
By extension...there's then nothing wrong with subsidizing every expense of your child for life. Of course that happens quite often with massive Trusts for kids.
I don't care one way or the other, but why stop at the things you list?
You're suggesting privileged kids are lazy layabouts, when they're anything but. They're wealthy Type A overachievers. They're going to selective colleges, getting great grades, and they're mindful about finding a spouse. Who you marry is the most important decision of your life. Not seriously looking for a spouse in your prime, when you're surrounded by 10,000-50,000 ambitious peers, is foolish. These kids have it all and they're quickly checking off status and milestone boxes. BA, check. Fiancé or fiancée, check. Grad school, check. Wedding, check. First house, check. Career in a premier city, check. Baby, check.
I’m fascinated that you think a checklist approach to life is desirable or to be emulated. It sounds incredibly depressing to me.
How else can you live? I mean you may not find the right person and that is fine but do you live without a plan and just go as the wind blows you? That is not how high achieving people think. Your plan may not work if you do not find the right person and could be delayed by decades even but your life has to have some structure.
Seems neurotic to think this way at 21. Also, short sighted. People should live their lives independently for a while after 18. Go travel. See the world. Sleep around a bit. Party. Obviously, they should go to college. And grad school is preferable. But to be so anxious and neurotic about locking down “the one” at 21 or 22 and married by like 23. Fking idiotic. The adult brain is only fully formed by mid 30’s based on the latest studies. Who you are at 21 will be vastly different at 41. You might even stunt your own growth getting married at 22. It’s just so fking boring.
You are projecting.
Smart, attractive, ambitious, and mature college students know the most important decision they make in life is who they marry. These highest value young adults quickly pair and marry. Many of the lower value leftovers will never marry, and never reproduce, or will need apps to find each other and settle in their 30s.
It is likely that moving forward it’s going to be a Gen Z ‘tell’ that you’re high value if you married in your 20s and established a life together with your spouse.
Ok, you have said this over and over and over in this thread. You have made your point. Not everyone agrees with you. You are obviously not so happy with your life if you need so badly to have everyone agree with you that it’s the best way to live. I guess your kids are out of the house so you have nothing to do but obsessively post on dcum that your life is best. Calm down and take a step back.
Every other week my 24 year old daughter shares another engagement or wedding photo with me. She graduated from Penn in 2022. Her friends began getting engaged the month of graduation.
Anonymous wrote:Every other week my 24 year old daughter shares another engagement or wedding photo with me. She graduated from Penn in 2022. Her friends began getting engaged the month of graduation.
Wow, your daughter is so behind the curve! Unmarried at 24, what a prole tell! I don’t know how you go out in public.
Anonymous wrote:What about the other trend of not marrying at all?
I have coworkers with babies who are not married.
This is the actual trend. But it doesn't fit in with the current narrative being pushed
UMC/rich kids seem to be getting married younger. These kids likely have the support of the rich parents.
Poor and MC young adults may not have the money for a wedding or to buy a house. Our kids will have college, grad school, wedding and at least down payment from the parents. I would rather my kids marry relatively young in their twenties and have kids young.
I come from humble beginnings and traveled a ton in my twenties after I started working. My kids have been traveling internationally since they were young. My kids are still minors and been to Europe and Asia several times and the US/Caribbean countless times. It isn’t like they need to spend their twenties traveling and enjoying life. They have been doing this since being born.
Traveling with mama is not what people mean when they say "travel and see the world." That you would unironically write that tells me so much about you.
DP.
What does “travel and see the world” mean if not travel and see the world, which one can do with their friends, their parents, or even by themselves!
Do you mean getting drunk, high, and having sex with random strangers? That’s the only scenario in which you’re right and one would not get that experience traveling with mama…
No they mean exploring the world on your own without your parents paying for everything and holding your hand the entire time. Navigating a foreign transportation system or a language you don't speak on your own without well-traveled parents who can always step in to explain or guide.
I traveled a ton between birth and age 12 because my dad worked for a huge international company and we lived all over the world as he helped set up offices and factories for them. And then even after we settled in the US so I could have a "normal" high school experience we still traveled abroad a lot. So I was a "well-traveled" kid. But when I traveled in my 20s on my own I learned different things about myself. It was a totally different experience. Independence is a really powerful thing to explore and I do think I would have missed out on something if I'd married straight out of college even though obviously I wasn't lacking in opportunities to travel.
I never did the drinking and drugging and casual sex type of travel btw. I did meet lots of interesting people but I have always known to be cautious when traveling abroad.
You’re speaking from an upper middle class / wealthy bubble. The vast majority of American kids, teens, and young adults will NEVER “see the world”. For the average American family a trip to a single European country for a week is literally a once-in-lifetime event.
So you can continue to split hairs about whether seeing the world as a kid “counts” or not, but just understand that it’s irrelevant.
DP. Isn’t that the topic of this thread?
Anyway, the point was that most young adults would benefit from getting TF out of their hometown. “Seeing the world” doesn’t just mean visiting some tourist trap in Europe.
So wait, are you talking about upper middle class young people who have almost certainly been out of their hometown? Or are you talking about lower class young people who not only have likely not gotten out of their hometown, but will never do so regardless of their age at marriage?
Most young adults should become independent and ideally live somewhere else before settling down.
Why?
DP. If you go directly from being dependent on your parents to being committed to another person, you don’t get many opportunities to make decisions that are purely in your own self-interest, for better or for worse. Regardless of what age one gets married—if they get married—once they start checking the boxes of the traditional nuclear family, they might start to keenly feel the possibilities of how their life might turn out getting narrower and narrower. Which is normal and fine, but there’s that sweet spot right after college where there are just so many possibilities! What a wonderful thing and a great time to take chances, make mistakes with minimal consequences. Figure out what’s really important to
you. The more people you have hitched to you, the harder those risks are to take.
You can of course do that, but it is neither ideal nor necessary. It is merely one way to live your life.
I also can’t help but wonder how many folks on this thread are crowing about the supposed importance of living independently (particularly from their parents) while simultaneously receiving handouts. This area is rife with trust fund babies and people who had their entire undergraduate and graduate educations fully financed by mom and dad. Weddings paid for! Down payment assistance! College savings for the grandkids! And so on.
Some of us had to learn to be independent much earlier than many of the rich kids turned rich adults posting here…
You sound angry and like you have a chip on your shoulder. I'm sorry you didn't have successful parents, but there's nothing wrong with paying for your kid's education, engagement ring, wedding, honeymoon, and helping with a down payment on a first house. There is nothing to romanticize about starting adulthood in some student loan and rental apartment usury trap.
By extension...there's then nothing wrong with subsidizing every expense of your child for life. Of course that happens quite often with massive Trusts for kids.
I don't care one way or the other, but why stop at the things you list?
You're suggesting privileged kids are lazy layabouts, when they're anything but. They're wealthy Type A overachievers. They're going to selective colleges, getting great grades, and they're mindful about finding a spouse. Who you marry is the most important decision of your life. Not seriously looking for a spouse in your prime, when you're surrounded by 10,000-50,000 ambitious peers, is foolish. These kids have it all and they're quickly checking off status and milestone boxes. BA, check. Fiancé or fiancée, check. Grad school, check. Wedding, check. First house, check. Career in a premier city, check. Baby, check.
I’m fascinated that you think a checklist approach to life is desirable or to be emulated. It sounds incredibly depressing to me.
How else can you live? I mean you may not find the right person and that is fine but do you live without a plan and just go as the wind blows you? That is not how high achieving people think. Your plan may not work if you do not find the right person and could be delayed by decades even but your life has to have some structure.
Seems neurotic to think this way at 21. Also, short sighted. People should live their lives independently for a while after 18. Go travel. See the world. Sleep around a bit. Party. Obviously, they should go to college. And grad school is preferable. But to be so anxious and neurotic about locking down “the one” at 21 or 22 and married by like 23. Fking idiotic. The adult brain is only fully formed by mid 30’s based on the latest studies. Who you are at 21 will be vastly different at 41. You might even stunt your own growth getting married at 22. It’s just so fking boring.
You are projecting.
Smart, attractive, ambitious, and mature college students know the most important decision they make in life is who they marry. These highest value young adults quickly pair and marry. Many of the lower value leftovers will never marry, and never reproduce, or will need apps to find each other and settle in their 30s.
It is likely that moving forward it’s going to be a Gen Z ‘tell’ that you’re high value if you married in your 20s and established a life together with your spouse.
You are such a POS ranking essentially teenagers as high or low value based on their economic circumstances. People like you are the lowest value of all. You’re disgusting and I hope every aspect of your life brings you misery and pain until it ends.
Anonymous wrote:I got married at 23 and had my first at 26, in law school. People acted like I was a teen mom. It was ridiculous. I’ve been married for 17 years and I’m really happy with my choices. I have health problems now that could have kept me from having kids in my 30s. So I’m really glad I got that done in my 20s and I would recommend for my children to do the same.
At the same time, I was fairly mature at 23 and knew what I wanted. I knew DH was a good partner.
I wish I could have had children younger. I don't see what the big deal is. Think of how young you'll be when the nest empties!
I’ll be 46 and an empty nester MUAHAHAHA.
My 20s were hard but I’m happy DH was with me. He is the one who put me through law school. We had marriage, law school, babies overlapping and it was super hard but by my mid 30s life was so pleasant. Now nearing 40 my kids are older and I am really enjoying my life. I didn’t travel or date a lot but DH and I have had some fun trips while my parents stay with the kids.
It always stands out to me that young parents seem thrilled to be empty nesters and “enjoying my life.” There is this mindset that you’re happy the phase of having kids is over with.
Did you not enjoy having kids?
Perhaps you had to give up so much in your 20s and you feel like your time is finally your own? I can imagine you had virtually no time to yourself and had to struggle through lawschool if you had young babies at the same time.
I can’t imagine viewing having a family the way you do. I loved my time in my 20s and it’s now great to have a young family in my 40s.
+1! I read that and thought that sounds sad to be so giddy about your kids being gone. I was married young (23) but waited until 30s for kids. I’m glad we still have a way to go with them under my roof. In my 40s now.
Agree with this. I'm happy for anyone who is happy with their life choices, but I'd rather have kids later and spend much of my middle age years with kids in the house because this is when I most want to be home and don't feel curtailed by kids. I went out and traveled a lot in my 20s and early 30s -- by the time I got pregnant that was no longer as appealing to me and I was very ready to stay in more and have a more family-centric life. And no I was not out drinking and doing drugs and sleeping around -- I was just going out to dinner with friends, traveling to fun places, dating (but not having a ton of sex actually), and trying new hobbies. And now I'm eating dinners with my family and helping with homework and sewing halloween costumes... and happily going to bed at 9:30pm on a Friday.
This. Can’t imagine wanting my life to be limited by kids in my 20s. Someone who thinks this is the best option simply missed out on their 20s and doesn’t know any better.
You may as well try to convince me that the best time to have kids is high school.
The rich kids marrying young aren’t missing out on anything. They use all the paid leave from work and their parents are rich and help with childcare. They travel with each other as a family. You might not find it fair but they have it all.
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