"No Labels" Party

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It isn’t a third party if they have only a candidate for President and no other candidates or state organizations. That’s just a spoiler campaign. There is no third party movement at all.

The one or two GOP/No Labels boosters were hoping you didn’t notice that.

Umkay. Let's see what the sentiment is a year from now when the fact that Biden isn't going to win finally becomes apparent to those living in la la land. It will be too late in the game to do anything about it and you folks who refused to see the obvious writing on the wall will be the ones to blame for a Trump victory. It's just ridiculous. Ignorance is what got Trump elected in 2016. Repeat.

Biden beat Trump in 2020. Yes he did. Trump lost. The GOP will have to try to play games in 2024 to have even a shred of hope for their truly terrible candidate. Trump is so weak, doubt that even no labels can do anything to help him much.

You missed PP’s point.

Pp thinks Biden will lose. What is hard to understand about that?

No. PP is saying that if something happens to Biden, there is no backup plan and no one is thinking about it. If, God forbid, Biden had a major stroke or died, Democrats will be SOL because they haven’t given any serious thought to that scenario. That is a huge issue.

If something happens to trump, the GOP has the same issue.

But the stupid GOP has been testing out other candidates!!!! God, the knee jerk reaction to a suggestion for the Democratic Party, but but but Trump like some adolescent trying to come up with an excuse for not doing their homework. Prepare to have someone who can beat both Trump and Biden. What is wrong with you people? This is the sort of crap that gave us Trump in the first place.

It’s not a knee jerk reaction. We have played this game before several times and lost. You hate Biden irrationally and really rather stupidly, we get it.

I posted the actual vote tallies upthread of what happens when there’s a spoiler candidate. Say it to yourself over and over again until you understand this fundamental truth: in our current system, there is no third party option. Nader, Nader, Sanders/Stein. We literally had two of the worst presidents in American history due to people like you who can’t get it through their thick skulls that you can’t just huff in, decide you don’t like either of the two options - Joseph “Cheddar Cheese” Biden and Donald “Liquid Feces You Can’t Hold In” Trump - and then proceed to try and wreck the election.

My god you third party people are beyond stupid.

There are no viable 3rd party candidates in the 2024 race at this point in time. Polling data for a head to head match-up between Trump & Biden indicates the likelihood of a Biden victory over Trump is at best a 50/50. Again, these are the same polls that showed Biden as a very clear favorite at this same point in time leading up to the 2020 election. Trump is the same awful and very beatable candidate he was in 2019/2020 but yet he is polling much better against the same guy he trailed by double digits in 2019. Read the room, the perception among voters of Biden's strength as a candidate has dwindled since 2019. That may not be fair but it is what it is. Shouting down a discussion that involves concerns of Biden's ability to beat Trump in 2024 is counter-productive. Most of us have the same goal in mind- keep Trump out of office. Some people are becoming troubled by what the polling data is indicating and the concern is valid. There are no easy solutions that will replace Biden with a candidate that will immediately be heavily favored to beat Trump. There may be no solution at all. The conversation is still valid and very important.

Polling data? This is the same election all over and we know what will happen in pa and ga and mi and az and the few other states that matter. Trump already lost in those states BEFORE the roe fiasco and the insurrection fiasco. Yet you argue he is stronger in those states now? Sure he is.

He has lost about 25% of the republicans. That means Biden wins everything he did before plus North Carolina and Florida.

Don't know about republicans. They seem to be lost causes. But any new voters, independent voters, swing voters, - will he manage to attract a single one?

I think they will be swayed by Trump’s refusal to step down voluntarily after a 2nd term, as required by the 22nd amendment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It isn’t a third party if they have only a candidate for President and no other candidates or state organizations. That’s just a spoiler campaign. There is no third party movement at all.

The one or two GOP/No Labels boosters were hoping you didn’t notice that.

Umkay. Let's see what the sentiment is a year from now when the fact that Biden isn't going to win finally becomes apparent to those living in la la land. It will be too late in the game to do anything about it and you folks who refused to see the obvious writing on the wall will be the ones to blame for a Trump victory. It's just ridiculous. Ignorance is what got Trump elected in 2016. Repeat.

Biden beat Trump in 2020. Yes he did. Trump lost. The GOP will have to try to play games in 2024 to have even a shred of hope for their truly terrible candidate. Trump is so weak, doubt that even no labels can do anything to help him much.

You missed PP’s point.

Pp thinks Biden will lose. What is hard to understand about that?

No. PP is saying that if something happens to Biden, there is no backup plan and no one is thinking about it. If, God forbid, Biden had a major stroke or died, Democrats will be SOL because they haven’t given any serious thought to that scenario. That is a huge issue.

If something happens to trump, the GOP has the same issue.

But the stupid GOP has been testing out other candidates!!!! God, the knee jerk reaction to a suggestion for the Democratic Party, but but but Trump like some adolescent trying to come up with an excuse for not doing their homework. Prepare to have someone who can beat both Trump and Biden. What is wrong with you people? This is the sort of crap that gave us Trump in the first place.

It’s not a knee jerk reaction. We have played this game before several times and lost. You hate Biden irrationally and really rather stupidly, we get it.

I posted the actual vote tallies upthread of what happens when there’s a spoiler candidate. Say it to yourself over and over again until you understand this fundamental truth: in our current system, there is no third party option. Nader, Nader, Sanders/Stein. We literally had two of the worst presidents in American history due to people like you who can’t get it through their thick skulls that you can’t just huff in, decide you don’t like either of the two options - Joseph “Cheddar Cheese” Biden and Donald “Liquid Feces You Can’t Hold In” Trump - and then proceed to try and wreck the election.

My god you third party people are beyond stupid.

There are no viable 3rd party candidates in the 2024 race at this point in time. Polling data for a head to head match-up between Trump & Biden indicates the likelihood of a Biden victory over Trump is at best a 50/50. Again, these are the same polls that showed Biden as a very clear favorite at this same point in time leading up to the 2020 election. Trump is the same awful and very beatable candidate he was in 2019/2020 but yet he is polling much better against the same guy he trailed by double digits in 2019. Read the room, the perception among voters of Biden's strength as a candidate has dwindled since 2019. That may not be fair but it is what it is. Shouting down a discussion that involves concerns of Biden's ability to beat Trump in 2024 is counter-productive. Most of us have the same goal in mind- keep Trump out of office. Some people are becoming troubled by what the polling data is indicating and the concern is valid. There are no easy solutions that will replace Biden with a candidate that will immediately be heavily favored to beat Trump. There may be no solution at all. The conversation is still valid and very important.

Polling data? This is the same election all over and we know what will happen in pa and ga and mi and az and the few other states that matter. Trump already lost in those states BEFORE the roe fiasco and the insurrection fiasco. Yet you argue he is stronger in those states now? Sure he is.

He has lost about 25% of the republicans. That means Biden wins everything he did before plus North Carolina and Florida.

Don't know about republicans. They seem to be lost causes. But any new voters, independent voters, swing voters, - will he manage to attract a single one?

Only the deplorable ones. The youth vote is solidly blue until such a time that the GOP either embrace progressivism, or fade to the center as the Dems fade left. The era of pro-life radical Christianity ruling the GOP are coming to an end.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It isn’t a third party if they have only a candidate for President and no other candidates or state organizations. That’s just a spoiler campaign. There is no third party movement at all.

The one or two GOP/No Labels boosters were hoping you didn’t notice that.

Umkay. Let's see what the sentiment is a year from now when the fact that Biden isn't going to win finally becomes apparent to those living in la la land. It will be too late in the game to do anything about it and you folks who refused to see the obvious writing on the wall will be the ones to blame for a Trump victory. It's just ridiculous. Ignorance is what got Trump elected in 2016. Repeat.

Biden beat Trump in 2020. Yes he did. Trump lost. The GOP will have to try to play games in 2024 to have even a shred of hope for their truly terrible candidate. Trump is so weak, doubt that even no labels can do anything to help him much.

You missed PP’s point.

Pp thinks Biden will lose. What is hard to understand about that?

No. PP is saying that if something happens to Biden, there is no backup plan and no one is thinking about it. If, God forbid, Biden had a major stroke or died, Democrats will be SOL because they haven’t given any serious thought to that scenario. That is a huge issue.

If something happens to trump, the GOP has the same issue.

But the stupid GOP has been testing out other candidates!!!! God, the knee jerk reaction to a suggestion for the Democratic Party, but but but Trump like some adolescent trying to come up with an excuse for not doing their homework. Prepare to have someone who can beat both Trump and Biden. What is wrong with you people? This is the sort of crap that gave us Trump in the first place.

It’s not a knee jerk reaction. We have played this game before several times and lost. You hate Biden irrationally and really rather stupidly, we get it.

I posted the actual vote tallies upthread of what happens when there’s a spoiler candidate. Say it to yourself over and over again until you understand this fundamental truth: in our current system, there is no third party option. Nader, Nader, Sanders/Stein. We literally had two of the worst presidents in American history due to people like you who can’t get it through their thick skulls that you can’t just huff in, decide you don’t like either of the two options - Joseph “Cheddar Cheese” Biden and Donald “Liquid Feces You Can’t Hold In” Trump - and then proceed to try and wreck the election.

My god you third party people are beyond stupid.

There are no viable 3rd party candidates in the 2024 race at this point in time. Polling data for a head to head match-up between Trump & Biden indicates the likelihood of a Biden victory over Trump is at best a 50/50. Again, these are the same polls that showed Biden as a very clear favorite at this same point in time leading up to the 2020 election. Trump is the same awful and very beatable candidate he was in 2019/2020 but yet he is polling much better against the same guy he trailed by double digits in 2019. Read the room, the perception among voters of Biden's strength as a candidate has dwindled since 2019. That may not be fair but it is what it is. Shouting down a discussion that involves concerns of Biden's ability to beat Trump in 2024 is counter-productive. Most of us have the same goal in mind- keep Trump out of office. Some people are becoming troubled by what the polling data is indicating and the concern is valid. There are no easy solutions that will replace Biden with a candidate that will immediately be heavily favored to beat Trump. There may be no solution at all. The conversation is still valid and very important.

Polling data? This is the same election all over and we know what will happen in pa and ga and mi and az and the few other states that matter. Trump already lost in those states BEFORE the roe fiasco and the insurrection fiasco. Yet you argue he is stronger in those states now? Sure he is.

He has lost about 25% of the republicans. That means Biden wins everything he did before plus North Carolina and Florida.

Don't know about republicans. They seem to be lost causes. But any new voters, independent voters, swing voters, - will he manage to attract a single one?

We can assume that enough voters are smart enough to make the right choice on election day to guarantee a Biden victory by a wide margin but the current data tells a different story. The same polls that had Biden leading Trump by a very wide margin ahead of the 2020 election are now indicating a very tight, too close to call race. On election day, Trump outperformed the polling data in both 2016 and 2020. We had enough faith in the polling data in 2020 to make the right call in choosing Biden as the candidate with the best chance to beat Trump. Based on that same logic, there is reason to be very concerned at this point. As discussed, it will be very difficult for any other candidate to step in at this juncture with a better chance of beating Trump than Biden. This being the case, we have some work to do in order to justify having the same confidence in a Biden victory as we did in 2020. Wisconsin appears to be safely in Biden's corner. The polling margins in Michigan and Pennsylvania are currently razor thin which should be very worrisome to those of us that don't want Trump back in office.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It isn’t a third party if they have only a candidate for President and no other candidates or state organizations. That’s just a spoiler campaign. There is no third party movement at all.

The one or two GOP/No Labels boosters were hoping you didn’t notice that.

Umkay. Let's see what the sentiment is a year from now when the fact that Biden isn't going to win finally becomes apparent to those living in la la land. It will be too late in the game to do anything about it and you folks who refused to see the obvious writing on the wall will be the ones to blame for a Trump victory. It's just ridiculous. Ignorance is what got Trump elected in 2016. Repeat.

Biden beat Trump in 2020. Yes he did. Trump lost. The GOP will have to try to play games in 2024 to have even a shred of hope for their truly terrible candidate. Trump is so weak, doubt that even no labels can do anything to help him much.

You missed PP’s point.

Pp thinks Biden will lose. What is hard to understand about that?

No. PP is saying that if something happens to Biden, there is no backup plan and no one is thinking about it. If, God forbid, Biden had a major stroke or died, Democrats will be SOL because they haven’t given any serious thought to that scenario. That is a huge issue.

If something happens to trump, the GOP has the same issue.

But the stupid GOP has been testing out other candidates!!!! God, the knee jerk reaction to a suggestion for the Democratic Party, but but but Trump like some adolescent trying to come up with an excuse for not doing their homework. Prepare to have someone who can beat both Trump and Biden. What is wrong with you people? This is the sort of crap that gave us Trump in the first place.

It’s not a knee jerk reaction. We have played this game before several times and lost. You hate Biden irrationally and really rather stupidly, we get it.

I posted the actual vote tallies upthread of what happens when there’s a spoiler candidate. Say it to yourself over and over again until you understand this fundamental truth: in our current system, there is no third party option. Nader, Nader, Sanders/Stein. We literally had two of the worst presidents in American history due to people like you who can’t get it through their thick skulls that you can’t just huff in, decide you don’t like either of the two options - Joseph “Cheddar Cheese” Biden and Donald “Liquid Feces You Can’t Hold In” Trump - and then proceed to try and wreck the election.

My god you third party people are beyond stupid.

There are no viable 3rd party candidates in the 2024 race at this point in time. Polling data for a head to head match-up between Trump & Biden indicates the likelihood of a Biden victory over Trump is at best a 50/50. Again, these are the same polls that showed Biden as a very clear favorite at this same point in time leading up to the 2020 election. Trump is the same awful and very beatable candidate he was in 2019/2020 but yet he is polling much better against the same guy he trailed by double digits in 2019. Read the room, the perception among voters of Biden's strength as a candidate has dwindled since 2019. That may not be fair but it is what it is. Shouting down a discussion that involves concerns of Biden's ability to beat Trump in 2024 is counter-productive. Most of us have the same goal in mind- keep Trump out of office. Some people are becoming troubled by what the polling data is indicating and the concern is valid. There are no easy solutions that will replace Biden with a candidate that will immediately be heavily favored to beat Trump. There may be no solution at all. The conversation is still valid and very important.

Polling data? This is the same election all over and we know what will happen in pa and ga and mi and az and the few other states that matter. Trump already lost in those states BEFORE the roe fiasco and the insurrection fiasco. Yet you argue he is stronger in those states now? Sure he is.

He has lost about 25% of the republicans. That means Biden wins everything he did before plus North Carolina and Florida.

Don't know about republicans. They seem to be lost causes. But any new voters, independent voters, swing voters, - will he manage to attract a single one?

We can assume that enough voters are smart enough to make the right choice on election day to guarantee a Biden victory by a wide margin but the current data tells a different story. The same polls that had Biden leading Trump by a very wide margin ahead of the 2020 election are now indicating a very tight, too close to call race. On election day, Trump outperformed the polling data in both 2016 and 2020. We had enough faith in the polling data in 2020 to make the right call in choosing Biden as the candidate with the best chance to beat Trump. Based on that same logic, there is reason to be very concerned at this point. As discussed, it will be very difficult for any other candidate to step in at this juncture with a better chance of beating Trump than Biden. This being the case, we have some work to do in order to justify having the same confidence in a Biden victory as we did in 2020. Wisconsin appears to be safely in Biden's corner. The polling margins in Michigan and Pennsylvania are currently razor thin which should be very worrisome to those of us that don't want Trump back in office.

Polls seem to be limited use in recent memory. The actual elections that have taken place since 2020 have showed the left and the pro-choice issue being very motivating and very successful and I see no reason for that to not continue and strengthen and to impact the 2024 election in a significant way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It isn’t a third party if they have only a candidate for President and no other candidates or state organizations. That’s just a spoiler campaign. There is no third party movement at all.

The one or two GOP/No Labels boosters were hoping you didn’t notice that.

Umkay. Let's see what the sentiment is a year from now when the fact that Biden isn't going to win finally becomes apparent to those living in la la land. It will be too late in the game to do anything about it and you folks who refused to see the obvious writing on the wall will be the ones to blame for a Trump victory. It's just ridiculous. Ignorance is what got Trump elected in 2016. Repeat.

Biden beat Trump in 2020. Yes he did. Trump lost. The GOP will have to try to play games in 2024 to have even a shred of hope for their truly terrible candidate. Trump is so weak, doubt that even no labels can do anything to help him much.

You missed PP’s point.

Pp thinks Biden will lose. What is hard to understand about that?

No. PP is saying that if something happens to Biden, there is no backup plan and no one is thinking about it. If, God forbid, Biden had a major stroke or died, Democrats will be SOL because they haven’t given any serious thought to that scenario. That is a huge issue.

If something happens to trump, the GOP has the same issue.

But the stupid GOP has been testing out other candidates!!!! God, the knee jerk reaction to a suggestion for the Democratic Party, but but but Trump like some adolescent trying to come up with an excuse for not doing their homework. Prepare to have someone who can beat both Trump and Biden. What is wrong with you people? This is the sort of crap that gave us Trump in the first place.

It’s not a knee jerk reaction. We have played this game before several times and lost. You hate Biden irrationally and really rather stupidly, we get it.

I posted the actual vote tallies upthread of what happens when there’s a spoiler candidate. Say it to yourself over and over again until you understand this fundamental truth: in our current system, there is no third party option. Nader, Nader, Sanders/Stein. We literally had two of the worst presidents in American history due to people like you who can’t get it through their thick skulls that you can’t just huff in, decide you don’t like either of the two options - Joseph “Cheddar Cheese” Biden and Donald “Liquid Feces You Can’t Hold In” Trump - and then proceed to try and wreck the election.

My god you third party people are beyond stupid.

There are no viable 3rd party candidates in the 2024 race at this point in time. Polling data for a head to head match-up between Trump & Biden indicates the likelihood of a Biden victory over Trump is at best a 50/50. Again, these are the same polls that showed Biden as a very clear favorite at this same point in time leading up to the 2020 election. Trump is the same awful and very beatable candidate he was in 2019/2020 but yet he is polling much better against the same guy he trailed by double digits in 2019. Read the room, the perception among voters of Biden's strength as a candidate has dwindled since 2019. That may not be fair but it is what it is. Shouting down a discussion that involves concerns of Biden's ability to beat Trump in 2024 is counter-productive. Most of us have the same goal in mind- keep Trump out of office. Some people are becoming troubled by what the polling data is indicating and the concern is valid. There are no easy solutions that will replace Biden with a candidate that will immediately be heavily favored to beat Trump. There may be no solution at all. The conversation is still valid and very important.

Polling data? This is the same election all over and we know what will happen in pa and ga and mi and az and the few other states that matter. Trump already lost in those states BEFORE the roe fiasco and the insurrection fiasco. Yet you argue he is stronger in those states now? Sure he is.

He has lost about 25% of the republicans. That means Biden wins everything he did before plus North Carolina and Florida.

Don't know about republicans. They seem to be lost causes. But any new voters, independent voters, swing voters, - will he manage to attract a single one?

We can assume that enough voters are smart enough to make the right choice on election day to guarantee a Biden victory by a wide margin but the current data tells a different story. The same polls that had Biden leading Trump by a very wide margin ahead of the 2020 election are now indicating a very tight, too close to call race. On election day, Trump outperformed the polling data in both 2016 and 2020. We had enough faith in the polling data in 2020 to make the right call in choosing Biden as the candidate with the best chance to beat Trump. Based on that same logic, there is reason to be very concerned at this point. As discussed, it will be very difficult for any other candidate to step in at this juncture with a better chance of beating Trump than Biden. This being the case, we have some work to do in order to justify having the same confidence in a Biden victory as we did in 2020. Wisconsin appears to be safely in Biden's corner. The polling margins in Michigan and Pennsylvania are currently razor thin which should be very worrisome to those of us that don't want Trump back in office.

Polls seem to be limited use in recent memory. The actual elections that have taken place since 2020 have showed the left and the pro-choice issue being very motivating and very successful and I see no reason for that to not continue and strengthen and to impact the 2024 election in a significant way.

And to bring this back to no labels. They will not even take a position on this critical issue which makes them seem non serious and worthy of dismissal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It isn’t a third party if they have only a candidate for President and no other candidates or state organizations. That’s just a spoiler campaign. There is no third party movement at all.

The one or two GOP/No Labels boosters were hoping you didn’t notice that.

Umkay. Let's see what the sentiment is a year from now when the fact that Biden isn't going to win finally becomes apparent to those living in la la land. It will be too late in the game to do anything about it and you folks who refused to see the obvious writing on the wall will be the ones to blame for a Trump victory. It's just ridiculous. Ignorance is what got Trump elected in 2016. Repeat.

Biden beat Trump in 2020. Yes he did. Trump lost. The GOP will have to try to play games in 2024 to have even a shred of hope for their truly terrible candidate. Trump is so weak, doubt that even no labels can do anything to help him much.

You missed PP’s point.

Pp thinks Biden will lose. What is hard to understand about that?

No. PP is saying that if something happens to Biden, there is no backup plan and no one is thinking about it. If, God forbid, Biden had a major stroke or died, Democrats will be SOL because they haven’t given any serious thought to that scenario. That is a huge issue.

If something happens to trump, the GOP has the same issue.

But the stupid GOP has been testing out other candidates!!!! God, the knee jerk reaction to a suggestion for the Democratic Party, but but but Trump like some adolescent trying to come up with an excuse for not doing their homework. Prepare to have someone who can beat both Trump and Biden. What is wrong with you people? This is the sort of crap that gave us Trump in the first place.

It’s not a knee jerk reaction. We have played this game before several times and lost. You hate Biden irrationally and really rather stupidly, we get it.

I posted the actual vote tallies upthread of what happens when there’s a spoiler candidate. Say it to yourself over and over again until you understand this fundamental truth: in our current system, there is no third party option. Nader, Nader, Sanders/Stein. We literally had two of the worst presidents in American history due to people like you who can’t get it through their thick skulls that you can’t just huff in, decide you don’t like either of the two options - Joseph “Cheddar Cheese” Biden and Donald “Liquid Feces You Can’t Hold In” Trump - and then proceed to try and wreck the election.

My god you third party people are beyond stupid.

There are no viable 3rd party candidates in the 2024 race at this point in time. Polling data for a head to head match-up between Trump & Biden indicates the likelihood of a Biden victory over Trump is at best a 50/50. Again, these are the same polls that showed Biden as a very clear favorite at this same point in time leading up to the 2020 election. Trump is the same awful and very beatable candidate he was in 2019/2020 but yet he is polling much better against the same guy he trailed by double digits in 2019. Read the room, the perception among voters of Biden's strength as a candidate has dwindled since 2019. That may not be fair but it is what it is. Shouting down a discussion that involves concerns of Biden's ability to beat Trump in 2024 is counter-productive. Most of us have the same goal in mind- keep Trump out of office. Some people are becoming troubled by what the polling data is indicating and the concern is valid. There are no easy solutions that will replace Biden with a candidate that will immediately be heavily favored to beat Trump. There may be no solution at all. The conversation is still valid and very important.

Polling data? This is the same election all over and we know what will happen in pa and ga and mi and az and the few other states that matter. Trump already lost in those states BEFORE the roe fiasco and the insurrection fiasco. Yet you argue he is stronger in those states now? Sure he is.

He has lost about 25% of the republicans. That means Biden wins everything he did before plus North Carolina and Florida.

Don't know about republicans. They seem to be lost causes. But any new voters, independent voters, swing voters, - will he manage to attract a single one?

We can assume that enough voters are smart enough to make the right choice on election day to guarantee a Biden victory by a wide margin but the current data tells a different story. The same polls that had Biden leading Trump by a very wide margin ahead of the 2020 election are now indicating a very tight, too close to call race. On election day, Trump outperformed the polling data in both 2016 and 2020. We had enough faith in the polling data in 2020 to make the right call in choosing Biden as the candidate with the best chance to beat Trump. Based on that same logic, there is reason to be very concerned at this point. As discussed, it will be very difficult for any other candidate to step in at this juncture with a better chance of beating Trump than Biden. This being the case, we have some work to do in order to justify having the same confidence in a Biden victory as we did in 2020. Wisconsin appears to be safely in Biden's corner. The polling margins in Michigan and Pennsylvania are currently razor thin which should be very worrisome to those of us that don't want Trump back in office.

Polls seem to be limited use in recent memory. The actual elections that have taken place since 2020 have showed the left and the pro-choice issue being very motivating and very successful and I see no reason for that to not continue and strengthen and to impact the 2024 election in a significant way.

And to bring this back to no labels. They will not even take a position on this critical issue which makes them seem non serious and worthy of dismissal.

I found their “policy” page: https://www.commonsensemajority.org/

It’s absolute dog crap, but their “Please don’t notice we’re forced birthers!” “policy position” is “America must strike a balance between protecting women’s rights to control their own reproductive health and our society’s to protect human life.”

FORCED. BIRTHER. GARBAGE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It isn’t a third party if they have only a candidate for President and no other candidates or state organizations. That’s just a spoiler campaign. There is no third party movement at all.

The one or two GOP/No Labels boosters were hoping you didn’t notice that.

Umkay. Let's see what the sentiment is a year from now when the fact that Biden isn't going to win finally becomes apparent to those living in la la land. It will be too late in the game to do anything about it and you folks who refused to see the obvious writing on the wall will be the ones to blame for a Trump victory. It's just ridiculous. Ignorance is what got Trump elected in 2016. Repeat.

Biden beat Trump in 2020. Yes he did. Trump lost. The GOP will have to try to play games in 2024 to have even a shred of hope for their truly terrible candidate. Trump is so weak, doubt that even no labels can do anything to help him much.

You missed PP’s point.

Pp thinks Biden will lose. What is hard to understand about that?

No. PP is saying that if something happens to Biden, there is no backup plan and no one is thinking about it. If, God forbid, Biden had a major stroke or died, Democrats will be SOL because they haven’t given any serious thought to that scenario. That is a huge issue.

If something happens to trump, the GOP has the same issue.

But the stupid GOP has been testing out other candidates!!!! God, the knee jerk reaction to a suggestion for the Democratic Party, but but but Trump like some adolescent trying to come up with an excuse for not doing their homework. Prepare to have someone who can beat both Trump and Biden. What is wrong with you people? This is the sort of crap that gave us Trump in the first place.

It’s not a knee jerk reaction. We have played this game before several times and lost. You hate Biden irrationally and really rather stupidly, we get it.

I posted the actual vote tallies upthread of what happens when there’s a spoiler candidate. Say it to yourself over and over again until you understand this fundamental truth: in our current system, there is no third party option. Nader, Nader, Sanders/Stein. We literally had two of the worst presidents in American history due to people like you who can’t get it through their thick skulls that you can’t just huff in, decide you don’t like either of the two options - Joseph “Cheddar Cheese” Biden and Donald “Liquid Feces You Can’t Hold In” Trump - and then proceed to try and wreck the election.

My god you third party people are beyond stupid.

There are no viable 3rd party candidates in the 2024 race at this point in time. Polling data for a head to head match-up between Trump & Biden indicates the likelihood of a Biden victory over Trump is at best a 50/50. Again, these are the same polls that showed Biden as a very clear favorite at this same point in time leading up to the 2020 election. Trump is the same awful and very beatable candidate he was in 2019/2020 but yet he is polling much better against the same guy he trailed by double digits in 2019. Read the room, the perception among voters of Biden's strength as a candidate has dwindled since 2019. That may not be fair but it is what it is. Shouting down a discussion that involves concerns of Biden's ability to beat Trump in 2024 is counter-productive. Most of us have the same goal in mind- keep Trump out of office. Some people are becoming troubled by what the polling data is indicating and the concern is valid. There are no easy solutions that will replace Biden with a candidate that will immediately be heavily favored to beat Trump. There may be no solution at all. The conversation is still valid and very important.

Polling data? This is the same election all over and we know what will happen in pa and ga and mi and az and the few other states that matter. Trump already lost in those states BEFORE the roe fiasco and the insurrection fiasco. Yet you argue he is stronger in those states now? Sure he is.

He has lost about 25% of the republicans. That means Biden wins everything he did before plus North Carolina and Florida.

Don't know about republicans. They seem to be lost causes. But any new voters, independent voters, swing voters, - will he manage to attract a single one?

We can assume that enough voters are smart enough to make the right choice on election day to guarantee a Biden victory by a wide margin but the current data tells a different story. The same polls that had Biden leading Trump by a very wide margin ahead of the 2020 election are now indicating a very tight, too close to call race. On election day, Trump outperformed the polling data in both 2016 and 2020. We had enough faith in the polling data in 2020 to make the right call in choosing Biden as the candidate with the best chance to beat Trump. Based on that same logic, there is reason to be very concerned at this point. As discussed, it will be very difficult for any other candidate to step in at this juncture with a better chance of beating Trump than Biden. This being the case, we have some work to do in order to justify having the same confidence in a Biden victory as we did in 2020. Wisconsin appears to be safely in Biden's corner. The polling margins in Michigan and Pennsylvania are currently razor thin which should be very worrisome to those of us that don't want Trump back in office.

Polls seem to be limited use in recent memory. The actual elections that have taken place since 2020 have showed the left and the pro-choice issue being very motivating and very successful and I see no reason for that to not continue and strengthen and to impact the 2024 election in a significant way.

Sounds good. RvW being overturned will indeed continue to be a burden for candidates on the right for the foreseeable future. Let's ignore the polls and plan our election night party of celebrating Biden's landslide victory. Nothing could go wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It isn’t a third party if they have only a candidate for President and no other candidates or state organizations. That’s just a spoiler campaign. There is no third party movement at all.

The one or two GOP/No Labels boosters were hoping you didn’t notice that.

Umkay. Let's see what the sentiment is a year from now when the fact that Biden isn't going to win finally becomes apparent to those living in la la land. It will be too late in the game to do anything about it and you folks who refused to see the obvious writing on the wall will be the ones to blame for a Trump victory. It's just ridiculous. Ignorance is what got Trump elected in 2016. Repeat.

Biden beat Trump in 2020. Yes he did. Trump lost. The GOP will have to try to play games in 2024 to have even a shred of hope for their truly terrible candidate. Trump is so weak, doubt that even no labels can do anything to help him much.

You missed PP’s point.

Pp thinks Biden will lose. What is hard to understand about that?

No. PP is saying that if something happens to Biden, there is no backup plan and no one is thinking about it. If, God forbid, Biden had a major stroke or died, Democrats will be SOL because they haven’t given any serious thought to that scenario. That is a huge issue.

If something happens to trump, the GOP has the same issue.

But the stupid GOP has been testing out other candidates!!!! God, the knee jerk reaction to a suggestion for the Democratic Party, but but but Trump like some adolescent trying to come up with an excuse for not doing their homework. Prepare to have someone who can beat both Trump and Biden. What is wrong with you people? This is the sort of crap that gave us Trump in the first place.

It’s not a knee jerk reaction. We have played this game before several times and lost. You hate Biden irrationally and really rather stupidly, we get it.

I posted the actual vote tallies upthread of what happens when there’s a spoiler candidate. Say it to yourself over and over again until you understand this fundamental truth: in our current system, there is no third party option. Nader, Nader, Sanders/Stein. We literally had two of the worst presidents in American history due to people like you who can’t get it through their thick skulls that you can’t just huff in, decide you don’t like either of the two options - Joseph “Cheddar Cheese” Biden and Donald “Liquid Feces You Can’t Hold In” Trump - and then proceed to try and wreck the election.

My god you third party people are beyond stupid.

There are no viable 3rd party candidates in the 2024 race at this point in time. Polling data for a head to head match-up between Trump & Biden indicates the likelihood of a Biden victory over Trump is at best a 50/50. Again, these are the same polls that showed Biden as a very clear favorite at this same point in time leading up to the 2020 election. Trump is the same awful and very beatable candidate he was in 2019/2020 but yet he is polling much better against the same guy he trailed by double digits in 2019. Read the room, the perception among voters of Biden's strength as a candidate has dwindled since 2019. That may not be fair but it is what it is. Shouting down a discussion that involves concerns of Biden's ability to beat Trump in 2024 is counter-productive. Most of us have the same goal in mind- keep Trump out of office. Some people are becoming troubled by what the polling data is indicating and the concern is valid. There are no easy solutions that will replace Biden with a candidate that will immediately be heavily favored to beat Trump. There may be no solution at all. The conversation is still valid and very important.

Polling data? This is the same election all over and we know what will happen in pa and ga and mi and az and the few other states that matter. Trump already lost in those states BEFORE the roe fiasco and the insurrection fiasco. Yet you argue he is stronger in those states now? Sure he is.

He has lost about 25% of the republicans. That means Biden wins everything he did before plus North Carolina and Florida.

Don't know about republicans. They seem to be lost causes. But any new voters, independent voters, swing voters, - will he manage to attract a single one?

We can assume that enough voters are smart enough to make the right choice on election day to guarantee a Biden victory by a wide margin but the current data tells a different story. The same polls that had Biden leading Trump by a very wide margin ahead of the 2020 election are now indicating a very tight, too close to call race. On election day, Trump outperformed the polling data in both 2016 and 2020. We had enough faith in the polling data in 2020 to make the right call in choosing Biden as the candidate with the best chance to beat Trump. Based on that same logic, there is reason to be very concerned at this point. As discussed, it will be very difficult for any other candidate to step in at this juncture with a better chance of beating Trump than Biden. This being the case, we have some work to do in order to justify having the same confidence in a Biden victory as we did in 2020. Wisconsin appears to be safely in Biden's corner. The polling margins in Michigan and Pennsylvania are currently razor thin which should be very worrisome to those of us that don't want Trump back in office.

Polls seem to be limited use in recent memory. The actual elections that have taken place since 2020 have showed the left and the pro-choice issue being very motivating and very successful and I see no reason for that to not continue and strengthen and to impact the 2024 election in a significant way.

And to bring this back to no labels. They will not even take a position on this critical issue which makes them seem non serious and worthy of dismissal.

I found their “policy” page: https://www.commonsensemajority.org/

It’s absolute dog crap, but their “Please don’t notice we’re forced birthers!” “policy position” is “America must strike a balance between protecting women’s rights to control their own reproductive health and our society’s to protect human life.”

FORCED. BIRTHER. GARBAGE.

Time to step up and take a stand no labels. or should be label them "mealy mouthed garbage" as pp suggested. Are yo pro choice and want to return to the protections of Roe or not. Answer the question or sit down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It isn’t a third party if they have only a candidate for President and no other candidates or state organizations. That’s just a spoiler campaign. There is no third party movement at all.

The one or two GOP/No Labels boosters were hoping you didn’t notice that.

Umkay. Let's see what the sentiment is a year from now when the fact that Biden isn't going to win finally becomes apparent to those living in la la land. It will be too late in the game to do anything about it and you folks who refused to see the obvious writing on the wall will be the ones to blame for a Trump victory. It's just ridiculous. Ignorance is what got Trump elected in 2016. Repeat.

Biden beat Trump in 2020. Yes he did. Trump lost. The GOP will have to try to play games in 2024 to have even a shred of hope for their truly terrible candidate. Trump is so weak, doubt that even no labels can do anything to help him much.

You missed PP’s point.

Pp thinks Biden will lose. What is hard to understand about that?

No. PP is saying that if something happens to Biden, there is no backup plan and no one is thinking about it. If, God forbid, Biden had a major stroke or died, Democrats will be SOL because they haven’t given any serious thought to that scenario. That is a huge issue.

If something happens to trump, the GOP has the same issue.

But the stupid GOP has been testing out other candidates!!!! God, the knee jerk reaction to a suggestion for the Democratic Party, but but but Trump like some adolescent trying to come up with an excuse for not doing their homework. Prepare to have someone who can beat both Trump and Biden. What is wrong with you people? This is the sort of crap that gave us Trump in the first place.

It’s not a knee jerk reaction. We have played this game before several times and lost. You hate Biden irrationally and really rather stupidly, we get it.

I posted the actual vote tallies upthread of what happens when there’s a spoiler candidate. Say it to yourself over and over again until you understand this fundamental truth: in our current system, there is no third party option. Nader, Nader, Sanders/Stein. We literally had two of the worst presidents in American history due to people like you who can’t get it through their thick skulls that you can’t just huff in, decide you don’t like either of the two options - Joseph “Cheddar Cheese” Biden and Donald “Liquid Feces You Can’t Hold In” Trump - and then proceed to try and wreck the election.

My god you third party people are beyond stupid.

OMG. You don’t even recognize people on your own team. So frickin’ off putting. You are an example of why the parties need to dissolve and let new growth in.

Nope. I’m someone who can look at history and lets that inform me. You, OTOH, want to act as new as a blade of grass in March. You scorn being involved regularly, you scorn the people who pay attention, you scorn what we’re trying to tell you. Get it through your thick “Democratic” skull: to try and support a third party in the presidential election is to throw the election to the Republicans.

It was dunks like you who gifted us W - W who managed to ignore everything the outgoing Clinton administration about al Qaeda. W who managed to let four planes crash into various places, who made kidnapping and torture a part of America’s legacy, who allowed the military industrial complex somehow get even bigger and worse than it’s probably ever been. The early 2000s were when we probably could have righted the ship on global warming, but you know Al Gore just wasn’t warm enough and he and Bush were basically the same thing. So congrats on voting for Ralph Nader! I bet that feels really really pure! And then you did it again four flipping years later!

It was dunks like you who really and truly believed that Bernie Sanders, a do nothing Independent nobody from Vermont was entitled to the Democratic nomination. So you either wrote him in, stayed home or voted for Stein - or flat out voted for TRUMP, because once again you both sidesed Clinton and Trump and they were the same so why not try to wreck the system, rigggggght? Trump then went on to destroy the machines the fuel the government’s functioning. He managed to distance us from allies and used our government to benefit our enemies. He was on the way to blowing up the economy when he really went and did it by actively worsening covid. Oh and his religious extremist judges ended women’s rights.

So no, sugar, you and I are not on the same team. You’re high on your own supply or you’re a Republican. You want to see what the GOP has in store for us if they get in office again? https://www.salon.com/2023/09/05/dark-right-wing-network-recruits-maga-army-to-replace-50k-workers-plans-to-purge/

Sorry — I did vote for Gore, Obama and Biden. It is YOU who gave us trump.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It isn’t a third party if they have only a candidate for President and no other candidates or state organizations. That’s just a spoiler campaign. There is no third party movement at all.

The one or two GOP/No Labels boosters were hoping you didn’t notice that.

Umkay. Let's see what the sentiment is a year from now when the fact that Biden isn't going to win finally becomes apparent to those living in la la land. It will be too late in the game to do anything about it and you folks who refused to see the obvious writing on the wall will be the ones to blame for a Trump victory. It's just ridiculous. Ignorance is what got Trump elected in 2016. Repeat.

Biden beat Trump in 2020. Yes he did. Trump lost. The GOP will have to try to play games in 2024 to have even a shred of hope for their truly terrible candidate. Trump is so weak, doubt that even no labels can do anything to help him much.

You missed PP’s point.

Pp thinks Biden will lose. What is hard to understand about that?

No. PP is saying that if something happens to Biden, there is no backup plan and no one is thinking about it. If, God forbid, Biden had a major stroke or died, Democrats will be SOL because they haven’t given any serious thought to that scenario. That is a huge issue.

If something happens to trump, the GOP has the same issue.

But the stupid GOP has been testing out other candidates!!!! God, the knee jerk reaction to a suggestion for the Democratic Party, but but but Trump like some adolescent trying to come up with an excuse for not doing their homework. Prepare to have someone who can beat both Trump and Biden. What is wrong with you people? This is the sort of crap that gave us Trump in the first place.

It’s not a knee jerk reaction. We have played this game before several times and lost. You hate Biden irrationally and really rather stupidly, we get it.

I posted the actual vote tallies upthread of what happens when there’s a spoiler candidate. Say it to yourself over and over again until you understand this fundamental truth: in our current system, there is no third party option. Nader, Nader, Sanders/Stein. We literally had two of the worst presidents in American history due to people like you who can’t get it through their thick skulls that you can’t just huff in, decide you don’t like either of the two options - Joseph “Cheddar Cheese” Biden and Donald “Liquid Feces You Can’t Hold In” Trump - and then proceed to try and wreck the election.

My god you third party people are beyond stupid.

There are no viable 3rd party candidates in the 2024 race at this point in time. Polling data for a head to head match-up between Trump & Biden indicates the likelihood of a Biden victory over Trump is at best a 50/50. Again, these are the same polls that showed Biden as a very clear favorite at this same point in time leading up to the 2020 election. Trump is the same awful and very beatable candidate he was in 2019/2020 but yet he is polling much better against the same guy he trailed by double digits in 2019. Read the room, the perception among voters of Biden's strength as a candidate has dwindled since 2019. That may not be fair but it is what it is. Shouting down a discussion that involves concerns of Biden's ability to beat Trump in 2024 is counter-productive. Most of us have the same goal in mind- keep Trump out of office. Some people are becoming troubled by what the polling data is indicating and the concern is valid. There are no easy solutions that will replace Biden with a candidate that will immediately be heavily favored to beat Trump. There may be no solution at all. The conversation is still valid and very important.

Polling data? This is the same election all over and we know what will happen in pa and ga and mi and az and the few other states that matter. Trump already lost in those states BEFORE the roe fiasco and the insurrection fiasco. Yet you argue he is stronger in those states now? Sure he is.

He has lost about 25% of the republicans. That means Biden wins everything he did before plus North Carolina and Florida.

Don't know about republicans. They seem to be lost causes. But any new voters, independent voters, swing voters, - will he manage to attract a single one?

We can assume that enough voters are smart enough to make the right choice on election day to guarantee a Biden victory by a wide margin but the current data tells a different story. The same polls that had Biden leading Trump by a very wide margin ahead of the 2020 election are now indicating a very tight, too close to call race. On election day, Trump outperformed the polling data in both 2016 and 2020. We had enough faith in the polling data in 2020 to make the right call in choosing Biden as the candidate with the best chance to beat Trump. Based on that same logic, there is reason to be very concerned at this point. As discussed, it will be very difficult for any other candidate to step in at this juncture with a better chance of beating Trump than Biden. This being the case, we have some work to do in order to justify having the same confidence in a Biden victory as we did in 2020. Wisconsin appears to be safely in Biden's corner. The polling margins in Michigan and Pennsylvania are currently razor thin which should be very worrisome to those of us that don't want Trump back in office.

Polls seem to be limited use in recent memory. The actual elections that have taken place since 2020 have showed the left and the pro-choice issue being very motivating and very successful and I see no reason for that to not continue and strengthen and to impact the 2024 election in a significant way.

Sounds good. RvW being overturned will indeed continue to be a burden for candidates on the right for the foreseeable future. Let's ignore the polls and plan our election night party of celebrating Biden's landslide victory. Nothing could go wrong.

I don't hear any better alternative from you. No lables? Seriously? Read the "policy" they describe about abortion - perhaps the defining issue of the election of 2024. They dont even have one. Not a successful strategy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It isn’t a third party if they have only a candidate for President and no other candidates or state organizations. That’s just a spoiler campaign. There is no third party movement at all.

The one or two GOP/No Labels boosters were hoping you didn’t notice that.

Umkay. Let's see what the sentiment is a year from now when the fact that Biden isn't going to win finally becomes apparent to those living in la la land. It will be too late in the game to do anything about it and you folks who refused to see the obvious writing on the wall will be the ones to blame for a Trump victory. It's just ridiculous. Ignorance is what got Trump elected in 2016. Repeat.

The only way Trump wins is if No Labels takes too many "independent" voters. The fact is, if Hogan is the candidate, then it will be a pro-life vote. I highly doubt many independent voters will support that.

I am an independent voter and I do not see Larry Hogan as a “pro-life” vote. Like Nikki Haley, he knows this is a losing issue and that there is no pathway to a national ban and will leave it alone. If I am in a booth and my options are Trump, Biden and Hogan I am going to have a very hard time not casting a vote for Hogan even though intellectually I understand that takes away from Biden. I just can’t believe this is what the Democratic Party had trotted out again.

Intellectualize yourself to another trump term if you most but most voters will say hell no. Hold the nose and vote for the lesser of 2 evils. That is what our elections are a lot of the time.

You keep thinking that most voters will say hell no, but you’re thinking as someone firmly in the Biden camp. The only thing I have less desire for than another 4 years of Biden is Trump part 2. The fact that your hook to independents is hold your nose and vote Biden is just really not persuasive.

IMO it is very persuasive. I am not young and I would absolutely say the majority of elections involve voting against a candidate rather than being thrilled with the democratic choice. That is just the way it is.

There are exceptions like Obama. Boy do we all miss him. And for me Clinton because I am raising some girls and I was excited to have them witness our first woman leader. Ugggg. Imagine is she would have won, where this country could be now.

But on we go. Trump is a such a huge repellent to many millions and rightly so. He is so bad he drives voter turnout to come out and defeat him which is unusual.

Imagine if Clinton had been nominated in 2008 when she was in her political prime and had no Benghazi or email server baggage? Obama left to gain the more experience he needed and then in place to crush Trumpism before it could get off the ground. Oh wait, that would all make too much sense for voters to be able to figure out.

FWIW Hillary would have easily won the Democratic nomination in 2008 if she had voted against the Iraq War. But she voted for it and the rest is history. It was the Iraq War vote, not misogyny, that cost her the nomination.

Narrator: It was mysogyny.

Say whatever you want, but I remember it all very clearly. Even with the idiotic Iraq War vote dragging her down like a heavy anchor, Hillary damn near pulled it off. Obama wouldn’t have even run in 2008 if Hillary had voted against the war. Pretty sure he has even said something to this effect.

Axelrod said it a few days ago in 2008 that they had a clear contrast point with hrc in 2008 that was fundemental for them and it was Iraq

People forget how much that primary was a single issue primary for so long

So what. How does she win in the general? Obama won.

It’s almost impossible for a party to win 3 presidential elections in a row. If Hillary had voted against the Iraq War and won the Democratic nomination in 2008, she would have been sworn in as America’s first woman president in 2009. There’s no doubt in my mind. That vote in 2002 cost her dearly.

Lots of doubt in my mind but we will never know. Onwards.

If not Iraq, they would have attacked for something else. She had a record to attack while Obama was a blank slate.

If Iraq was such a big deal why did Obama appoint her Secretary of State, pick Biden as VP, and keep Robert Gates as Secretary of Defense? There was no significant foreign policy difference between them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It isn’t a third party if they have only a candidate for President and no other candidates or state organizations. That’s just a spoiler campaign. There is no third party movement at all.

The one or two GOP/No Labels boosters were hoping you didn’t notice that.

Umkay. Let's see what the sentiment is a year from now when the fact that Biden isn't going to win finally becomes apparent to those living in la la land. It will be too late in the game to do anything about it and you folks who refused to see the obvious writing on the wall will be the ones to blame for a Trump victory. It's just ridiculous. Ignorance is what got Trump elected in 2016. Repeat.

Biden beat Trump in 2020. Yes he did. Trump lost. The GOP will have to try to play games in 2024 to have even a shred of hope for their truly terrible candidate. Trump is so weak, doubt that even no labels can do anything to help him much.

You missed PP’s point.

Pp thinks Biden will lose. What is hard to understand about that?

No. PP is saying that if something happens to Biden, there is no backup plan and no one is thinking about it. If, God forbid, Biden had a major stroke or died, Democrats will be SOL because they haven’t given any serious thought to that scenario. That is a huge issue.

If something happens to trump, the GOP has the same issue.

But the stupid GOP has been testing out other candidates!!!! God, the knee jerk reaction to a suggestion for the Democratic Party, but but but Trump like some adolescent trying to come up with an excuse for not doing their homework. Prepare to have someone who can beat both Trump and Biden. What is wrong with you people? This is the sort of crap that gave us Trump in the first place.

It’s not a knee jerk reaction. We have played this game before several times and lost. You hate Biden irrationally and really rather stupidly, we get it.

I posted the actual vote tallies upthread of what happens when there’s a spoiler candidate. Say it to yourself over and over again until you understand this fundamental truth: in our current system, there is no third party option. Nader, Nader, Sanders/Stein. We literally had two of the worst presidents in American history due to people like you who can’t get it through their thick skulls that you can’t just huff in, decide you don’t like either of the two options - Joseph “Cheddar Cheese” Biden and Donald “Liquid Feces You Can’t Hold In” Trump - and then proceed to try and wreck the election.

My god you third party people are beyond stupid.

There are no viable 3rd party candidates in the 2024 race at this point in time. Polling data for a head to head match-up between Trump & Biden indicates the likelihood of a Biden victory over Trump is at best a 50/50. Again, these are the same polls that showed Biden as a very clear favorite at this same point in time leading up to the 2020 election. Trump is the same awful and very beatable candidate he was in 2019/2020 but yet he is polling much better against the same guy he trailed by double digits in 2019. Read the room, the perception among voters of Biden's strength as a candidate has dwindled since 2019. That may not be fair but it is what it is. Shouting down a discussion that involves concerns of Biden's ability to beat Trump in 2024 is counter-productive. Most of us have the same goal in mind- keep Trump out of office. Some people are becoming troubled by what the polling data is indicating and the concern is valid. There are no easy solutions that will replace Biden with a candidate that will immediately be heavily favored to beat Trump. There may be no solution at all. The conversation is still valid and very important.

Polling data? This is the same election all over and we know what will happen in pa and ga and mi and az and the few other states that matter. Trump already lost in those states BEFORE the roe fiasco and the insurrection fiasco. Yet you argue he is stronger in those states now? Sure he is.

He has lost about 25% of the republicans. That means Biden wins everything he did before plus North Carolina and Florida.

Don't know about republicans. They seem to be lost causes. But any new voters, independent voters, swing voters, - will he manage to attract a single one?

We can assume that enough voters are smart enough to make the right choice on election day to guarantee a Biden victory by a wide margin but the current data tells a different story. The same polls that had Biden leading Trump by a very wide margin ahead of the 2020 election are now indicating a very tight, too close to call race. On election day, Trump outperformed the polling data in both 2016 and 2020. We had enough faith in the polling data in 2020 to make the right call in choosing Biden as the candidate with the best chance to beat Trump. Based on that same logic, there is reason to be very concerned at this point. As discussed, it will be very difficult for any other candidate to step in at this juncture with a better chance of beating Trump than Biden. This being the case, we have some work to do in order to justify having the same confidence in a Biden victory as we did in 2020. Wisconsin appears to be safely in Biden's corner. The polling margins in Michigan and Pennsylvania are currently razor thin which should be very worrisome to those of us that don't want Trump back in office.

Our choice is either Biden or president-for-life Trump. There is no other option. Will America plunge into the abyss? We shall see.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It isn’t a third party if they have only a candidate for President and no other candidates or state organizations. That’s just a spoiler campaign. There is no third party movement at all.

The one or two GOP/No Labels boosters were hoping you didn’t notice that.

Umkay. Let's see what the sentiment is a year from now when the fact that Biden isn't going to win finally becomes apparent to those living in la la land. It will be too late in the game to do anything about it and you folks who refused to see the obvious writing on the wall will be the ones to blame for a Trump victory. It's just ridiculous. Ignorance is what got Trump elected in 2016. Repeat.

Biden beat Trump in 2020. Yes he did. Trump lost. The GOP will have to try to play games in 2024 to have even a shred of hope for their truly terrible candidate. Trump is so weak, doubt that even no labels can do anything to help him much.

You missed PP’s point.

Pp thinks Biden will lose. What is hard to understand about that?

No. PP is saying that if something happens to Biden, there is no backup plan and no one is thinking about it. If, God forbid, Biden had a major stroke or died, Democrats will be SOL because they haven’t given any serious thought to that scenario. That is a huge issue.

If something happens to trump, the GOP has the same issue.

But the stupid GOP has been testing out other candidates!!!! God, the knee jerk reaction to a suggestion for the Democratic Party, but but but Trump like some adolescent trying to come up with an excuse for not doing their homework. Prepare to have someone who can beat both Trump and Biden. What is wrong with you people? This is the sort of crap that gave us Trump in the first place.

It’s not a knee jerk reaction. We have played this game before several times and lost. You hate Biden irrationally and really rather stupidly, we get it.

I posted the actual vote tallies upthread of what happens when there’s a spoiler candidate. Say it to yourself over and over again until you understand this fundamental truth: in our current system, there is no third party option. Nader, Nader, Sanders/Stein. We literally had two of the worst presidents in American history due to people like you who can’t get it through their thick skulls that you can’t just huff in, decide you don’t like either of the two options - Joseph “Cheddar Cheese” Biden and Donald “Liquid Feces You Can’t Hold In” Trump - and then proceed to try and wreck the election.

My god you third party people are beyond stupid.

OMG. You don’t even recognize people on your own team. So frickin’ off putting. You are an example of why the parties need to dissolve and let new growth in.

Nope. I’m someone who can look at history and lets that inform me. You, OTOH, want to act as new as a blade of grass in March. You scorn being involved regularly, you scorn the people who pay attention, you scorn what we’re trying to tell you. Get it through your thick “Democratic” skull: to try and support a third party in the presidential election is to throw the election to the Republicans.

It was dunks like you who gifted us W - W who managed to ignore everything the outgoing Clinton administration about al Qaeda. W who managed to let four planes crash into various places, who made kidnapping and torture a part of America’s legacy, who allowed the military industrial complex somehow get even bigger and worse than it’s probably ever been. The early 2000s were when we probably could have righted the ship on global warming, but you know Al Gore just wasn’t warm enough and he and Bush were basically the same thing. So congrats on voting for Ralph Nader! I bet that feels really really pure! And then you did it again four flipping years later!

It was dunks like you who really and truly believed that Bernie Sanders, a do nothing Independent nobody from Vermont was entitled to the Democratic nomination. So you either wrote him in, stayed home or voted for Stein - or flat out voted for TRUMP, because once again you both sidesed Clinton and Trump and they were the same so why not try to wreck the system, rigggggght? Trump then went on to destroy the machines the fuel the government’s functioning. He managed to distance us from allies and used our government to benefit our enemies. He was on the way to blowing up the economy when he really went and did it by actively worsening covid. Oh and his religious extremist judges ended women’s rights.

So no, sugar, you and I are not on the same team. You’re high on your own supply or you’re a Republican. You want to see what the GOP has in store for us if they get in office again? https://www.salon.com/2023/09/05/dark-right-wing-network-recruits-maga-army-to-replace-50k-workers-plans-to-purge/

Sorry — I did vote for Gore, Obama and Biden. It is YOU who gave us trump.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It isn’t a third party if they have only a candidate for President and no other candidates or state organizations. That’s just a spoiler campaign. There is no third party movement at all.

The one or two GOP/No Labels boosters were hoping you didn’t notice that.

Umkay. Let's see what the sentiment is a year from now when the fact that Biden isn't going to win finally becomes apparent to those living in la la land. It will be too late in the game to do anything about it and you folks who refused to see the obvious writing on the wall will be the ones to blame for a Trump victory. It's just ridiculous. Ignorance is what got Trump elected in 2016. Repeat.

Biden beat Trump in 2020. Yes he did. Trump lost. The GOP will have to try to play games in 2024 to have even a shred of hope for their truly terrible candidate. Trump is so weak, doubt that even no labels can do anything to help him much.

You missed PP’s point.

Pp thinks Biden will lose. What is hard to understand about that?

No. PP is saying that if something happens to Biden, there is no backup plan and no one is thinking about it. If, God forbid, Biden had a major stroke or died, Democrats will be SOL because they haven’t given any serious thought to that scenario. That is a huge issue.

If something happens to trump, the GOP has the same issue.

But the stupid GOP has been testing out other candidates!!!! God, the knee jerk reaction to a suggestion for the Democratic Party, but but but Trump like some adolescent trying to come up with an excuse for not doing their homework. Prepare to have someone who can beat both Trump and Biden. What is wrong with you people? This is the sort of crap that gave us Trump in the first place.

It’s not a knee jerk reaction. We have played this game before several times and lost. You hate Biden irrationally and really rather stupidly, we get it.

I posted the actual vote tallies upthread of what happens when there’s a spoiler candidate. Say it to yourself over and over again until you understand this fundamental truth: in our current system, there is no third party option. Nader, Nader, Sanders/Stein. We literally had two of the worst presidents in American history due to people like you who can’t get it through their thick skulls that you can’t just huff in, decide you don’t like either of the two options - Joseph “Cheddar Cheese” Biden and Donald “Liquid Feces You Can’t Hold In” Trump - and then proceed to try and wreck the election.

My god you third party people are beyond stupid.

There are no viable 3rd party candidates in the 2024 race at this point in time. Polling data for a head to head match-up between Trump & Biden indicates the likelihood of a Biden victory over Trump is at best a 50/50. Again, these are the same polls that showed Biden as a very clear favorite at this same point in time leading up to the 2020 election. Trump is the same awful and very beatable candidate he was in 2019/2020 but yet he is polling much better against the same guy he trailed by double digits in 2019. Read the room, the perception among voters of Biden's strength as a candidate has dwindled since 2019. That may not be fair but it is what it is. Shouting down a discussion that involves concerns of Biden's ability to beat Trump in 2024 is counter-productive. Most of us have the same goal in mind- keep Trump out of office. Some people are becoming troubled by what the polling data is indicating and the concern is valid. There are no easy solutions that will replace Biden with a candidate that will immediately be heavily favored to beat Trump. There may be no solution at all. The conversation is still valid and very important.

Polling data? This is the same election all over and we know what will happen in pa and ga and mi and az and the few other states that matter. Trump already lost in those states BEFORE the roe fiasco and the insurrection fiasco. Yet you argue he is stronger in those states now? Sure he is.

He has lost about 25% of the republicans. That means Biden wins everything he did before plus North Carolina and Florida.

Don't know about republicans. They seem to be lost causes. But any new voters, independent voters, swing voters, - will he manage to attract a single one?

We can assume that enough voters are smart enough to make the right choice on election day to guarantee a Biden victory by a wide margin but the current data tells a different story. The same polls that had Biden leading Trump by a very wide margin ahead of the 2020 election are now indicating a very tight, too close to call race. On election day, Trump outperformed the polling data in both 2016 and 2020. We had enough faith in the polling data in 2020 to make the right call in choosing Biden as the candidate with the best chance to beat Trump. Based on that same logic, there is reason to be very concerned at this point. As discussed, it will be very difficult for any other candidate to step in at this juncture with a better chance of beating Trump than Biden. This being the case, we have some work to do in order to justify having the same confidence in a Biden victory as we did in 2020. Wisconsin appears to be safely in Biden's corner. The polling margins in Michigan and Pennsylvania are currently razor thin which should be very worrisome to those of us that don't want Trump back in office.

Polls seem to be limited use in recent memory. The actual elections that have taken place since 2020 have showed the left and the pro-choice issue being very motivating and very successful and I see no reason for that to not continue and strengthen and to impact the 2024 election in a significant way.

Sounds good. RvW being overturned will indeed continue to be a burden for candidates on the right for the foreseeable future. Let's ignore the polls and plan our election night party of celebrating Biden's landslide victory. Nothing could go wrong.

Then please explain how trump will escape this "burden" (talk about minimizing a big issue) and win the swing states?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It isn’t a third party if they have only a candidate for President and no other candidates or state organizations. That’s just a spoiler campaign. There is no third party movement at all.

The one or two GOP/No Labels boosters were hoping you didn’t notice that.

Umkay. Let's see what the sentiment is a year from now when the fact that Biden isn't going to win finally becomes apparent to those living in la la land. It will be too late in the game to do anything about it and you folks who refused to see the obvious writing on the wall will be the ones to blame for a Trump victory. It's just ridiculous. Ignorance is what got Trump elected in 2016. Repeat.

Biden beat Trump in 2020. Yes he did. Trump lost. The GOP will have to try to play games in 2024 to have even a shred of hope for their truly terrible candidate. Trump is so weak, doubt that even no labels can do anything to help him much.

You missed PP’s point.

Pp thinks Biden will lose. What is hard to understand about that?

No. PP is saying that if something happens to Biden, there is no backup plan and no one is thinking about it. If, God forbid, Biden had a major stroke or died, Democrats will be SOL because they haven’t given any serious thought to that scenario. That is a huge issue.

If something happens to trump, the GOP has the same issue.

But the stupid GOP has been testing out other candidates!!!! God, the knee jerk reaction to a suggestion for the Democratic Party, but but but Trump like some adolescent trying to come up with an excuse for not doing their homework. Prepare to have someone who can beat both Trump and Biden. What is wrong with you people? This is the sort of crap that gave us Trump in the first place.

It’s not a knee jerk reaction. We have played this game before several times and lost. You hate Biden irrationally and really rather stupidly, we get it.

I posted the actual vote tallies upthread of what happens when there’s a spoiler candidate. Say it to yourself over and over again until you understand this fundamental truth: in our current system, there is no third party option. Nader, Nader, Sanders/Stein. We literally had two of the worst presidents in American history due to people like you who can’t get it through their thick skulls that you can’t just huff in, decide you don’t like either of the two options - Joseph “Cheddar Cheese” Biden and Donald “Liquid Feces You Can’t Hold In” Trump - and then proceed to try and wreck the election.

My god you third party people are beyond stupid.

There are no viable 3rd party candidates in the 2024 race at this point in time. Polling data for a head to head match-up between Trump & Biden indicates the likelihood of a Biden victory over Trump is at best a 50/50. Again, these are the same polls that showed Biden as a very clear favorite at this same point in time leading up to the 2020 election. Trump is the same awful and very beatable candidate he was in 2019/2020 but yet he is polling much better against the same guy he trailed by double digits in 2019. Read the room, the perception among voters of Biden's strength as a candidate has dwindled since 2019. That may not be fair but it is what it is. Shouting down a discussion that involves concerns of Biden's ability to beat Trump in 2024 is counter-productive. Most of us have the same goal in mind- keep Trump out of office. Some people are becoming troubled by what the polling data is indicating and the concern is valid. There are no easy solutions that will replace Biden with a candidate that will immediately be heavily favored to beat Trump. There may be no solution at all. The conversation is still valid and very important.

Polling data? This is the same election all over and we know what will happen in pa and ga and mi and az and the few other states that matter. Trump already lost in those states BEFORE the roe fiasco and the insurrection fiasco. Yet you argue he is stronger in those states now? Sure he is.

He has lost about 25% of the republicans. That means Biden wins everything he did before plus North Carolina and Florida.

Don't know about republicans. They seem to be lost causes. But any new voters, independent voters, swing voters, - will he manage to attract a single one?

We can assume that enough voters are smart enough to make the right choice on election day to guarantee a Biden victory by a wide margin but the current data tells a different story. The same polls that had Biden leading Trump by a very wide margin ahead of the 2020 election are now indicating a very tight, too close to call race. On election day, Trump outperformed the polling data in both 2016 and 2020. We had enough faith in the polling data in 2020 to make the right call in choosing Biden as the candidate with the best chance to beat Trump. Based on that same logic, there is reason to be very concerned at this point. As discussed, it will be very difficult for any other candidate to step in at this juncture with a better chance of beating Trump than Biden. This being the case, we have some work to do in order to justify having the same confidence in a Biden victory as we did in 2020. Wisconsin appears to be safely in Biden's corner. The polling margins in Michigan and Pennsylvania are currently razor thin which should be very worrisome to those of us that don't want Trump back in office.

Polls seem to be limited use in recent memory. The actual elections that have taken place since 2020 have showed the left and the pro-choice issue being very motivating and very successful and I see no reason for that to not continue and strengthen and to impact the 2024 election in a significant way.

Sounds good. RvW being overturned will indeed continue to be a burden for candidates on the right for the foreseeable future. Let's ignore the polls and plan our election night party of celebrating Biden's landslide victory. Nothing could go wrong.

Then please explain how trump will escape this "burden" (talk about minimizing a big issue) and win the swing states?

By people falling for garbage like “No Labels” and “Forward” and “RFK, Jr.” Do not take Democratic votes for granted and run up the score against the GOP. They are telling us the authoritarianism they plan to establish if they win. Way too much is at risk to blow it on protest votes like “No Labels.”