Complete gut reno of kitchen - without designer

[Anonymous]

I've been looking through old threads on kitchen designers and kitchen renovations. We are going to start planning some renovations soon, and as part of this, we will be doing a complete gut reno of the kitchen. We have an architect, and we've been pleased with his previous work for us.

I would love to hear from people who have done a major kitchen renovation without a kitchen designer. I've been on Houzz a lot, and DH and I have researched issues with layout, cabinets, appliances - the whole thing. We're going to spend some money on this renovation, so avoiding a KD isn't necessarily all about the money, although that's part of it. I don't want to feel steered into their cabinets or anything else that they have business reasons - not style reasons - to steer us toward.

We have a good idea of what we like and what we need for functionality. What am I missing? Do you have any cautionary tales or success stories regarding designing a kitchen without a KD?

[Anonymous]

The devil is in the details, and there are probably some number of things that you'll miss.
Here's an example of one: I put a cabinet with a drawer right next to my refrigerator. I should have left a few inches of blank cabinet space because now I can't open the drawer when the refrigerator door (french) is open.
If you've never done it before, it's a lot of fun and rewarding, but you'll make some mistakes that you can't really fix.

[Anonymous]

I'm not sure what a kitchen designer does, but between my contractor and I we were able to figure it out.

He was pretty smart, but I caught a problem that would have blocked part of a window when I was ordering cabinets.

My kitchen is pretty small, though. There weren't a ton of decisions to make about what should go where.

[Anonymous]

what is your kitchen budget? 10K? Yeah, maybe skip a designer, but if you are spending 40K or more, get a designer. I'm sure you can find an independent one that will allow you to have the freedom of choice you crave.

[Anonymous]

We did not use a designer although talked to a bunch.
If you have a small space with not a lot of possibilities and you've done a lot of research, then yeah skip the designer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've been looking through old threads on kitchen designers and kitchen renovations. We are going to start planning some renovations soon, and as part of this, we will be doing a complete gut reno of the kitchen. We have an architect, and we've been pleased with his previous work for us.

I would love to hear from people who have done a major kitchen renovation without a kitchen designer. I've been on Houzz a lot, and DH and I have researched issues with layout, cabinets, appliances - the whole thing. We're going to spend some money on this renovation, so avoiding a KD isn't necessarily all about the money, although that's part of it. I don't want to feel steered into their cabinets or anything else that they have business reasons - not style reasons - to steer us toward.

We have a good idea of what we like and what we need for functionality. What am I missing? Do you have any cautionary tales or success stories regarding designing a kitchen without a KD?

We learned more from contractors [and 1 out of 4 architects] in total on various projects including a new build [addition] than we got from any kitchen designer.
So I never hired one.

Kitchen cabinets come in stock widths and depths and heights. Start with the sink. I've heard of designers using 30 in base rather than 36. Always get 36 despite any suggestions otherwise. You can get a mega sink or a standard size 1 bowl and a side bowl. Any storage lost by the 6 in is immaterial since you gain under the cabinet.

Place the dishwasher to the right or left to the sink base cabinet. Skip the funky soap holes etc. Build out the cabinets from that point. A common repair item is pull out trash doors. If you have space next to the sink do a base cabinet with door and then install a pull out trash on the base with drawer on top. Always get solid wood doors and drawer fronts-can be filled/painted/restained.

Do a microwave built in shelf in the upper cabinets -reaching over a stove is just a hazard. Upper cabinets flanking the range should be at least 6 inches offset from the range opening. Range is positioned for gas lines etc. Never have it open to a walking area on the side. Space then a cupboard. The fridge opening is framed out. If on site it is too narrow you are screwed.

Don't get funky and mess with plumbing lines [which are vented] or drainage. All done and just get what fits for cabinets after the major stuff is placed. Remeber better to do a single cabinet run of less than 24 than have a smaller walkway area. With kids you really don't want a breakfast bar on a island with the range.

[Anonymous]

We ended up using a design build BUT long before we hired them, we paid $300 for a designer to come in. She was incredible.

We ended up using her design. The designer with the firm was terrible and I finally showed her what the old designer came up with and I said - just do this.

[Anonymous]

I would highly recommend using a KD. As PP mentioned, there are tons of details in a kitchen. They are more complicated than they look to lay out correctly. I also would use garden web's kitchen forum as a resource. Best tips- I would go for as many drawers as possible for base cabinets They are way more efficient than cabinets and shelves. Put a pull out shelf next to range for oils, spices etc. Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The devil is in the details, and there are probably some number of things that you'll miss.
Here's an example of one: I put a cabinet with a drawer right next to my refrigerator. I should have left a few inches of blank cabinet space because now I can't open the drawer when the refrigerator door (french) is open.
If you've never done it before, it's a lot of fun and rewarding, but you'll make some mistakes that you can't really fix.

Most kitchen designers are pretty useless, and i think many of them wouldn't have caught this drawer issue either.

OP - so long as you're willing to put the work in yourself, and talk to your contractor a lot - then you don't need a kitchen designer. I probably spent 50 hours designing my kitchen (spread out over months), and the reality is that only i know all the things i want in my kitchen. KDs will have standard ideas - but that doesn't necessarily transalate to an individual's needs. And KDs from the stores really, really suck. We have shockingly bad experiences with several of them.

I've designed two kitchens now, and one thing i have always found tremendously useful is to go through the National Kitchen and Bath Association 41 Kitchen Guidelines - available for free if you just google. It's the true design rules - like, how wide of an aisle you need on the main passthrough in your kitchen versus a secondary passthrough, how much countertop space to have to the left of your sink, and all the kind of stuff. You won't be able to satisfy everything (our kitchen triangle is always by necessity interrupted by the island, e.g.) but it really helps you to think things through in detail, helps you think about how you're going to use your kitchen, and decide what things you're willing to compromise on.

[Anonymous]

We did ours with just our contractor who helped with basic layout decisions and measurements. But we didn't really have much opportunity for major reconfiguration as we have a small space and wanted to minimize plumbing and electrical costs.

We did move our sink over a few inches to increase prep space between the sink and stove and made the decisions about cabinet layout with help from the contractor and Home Depot. I selected all the finishes.

It turned out great.

[Anonymous]

OP we used the cabinet designer to cover this issue. There are a lot of little things that you don't think of -- like the spacing around the cabinets next to walls or the frig. And you cant fix them the day the contractor comes to put them in. The required spacing between things as PP noted above. Visit a friends recently remodeled kitchen -- that is a big help.

[Anonymous]

We used Home Depot on our first house. No fee. Our lady sat with us for over three hours (2 sessions). Once we mapped it out with her she and some great ideas. I used a different provider for counters and sink but got our cabinets from them. It turned out nice.

[Anonymous]

OP, we have been coddled by a kitchen designer (with the purchased cabinets) and then just an architect and contractor. I have learned SO much. (+Houzz).

We could probably compile a thread on DON'Ts (I think there are several!)

I think it can be done if you are experienced. What I learned in my latest...

BIG sink, no matter what. InstaHot is fabulous
Pull down immediately under sink for sponges

LOTS of outlets -- in your island, on your counters

Good and quiet hood. No microwave/hood.

Under cabinet lighting--seems trivial but is amazing.

Trash pull out next to sink- NICE. And extra trash pull out in island, even nicer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP we used the cabinet designer to cover this issue. There are a lot of little things that you don't think of -- like the spacing around the cabinets next to walls or the frig. And you cant fix them the day the contractor comes to put them in. The required spacing between things as PP noted above. Visit a friends recently remodeled kitchen -- that is a big help.

I agree. I also think that you should have your appliances picked out to give to whomever you decide to design your kitchen. Not necessary to purchase them, but have the spec sheet to know its requirements. Like if you have a slide in stove, you'll need to know how high it can be installed over your countertop. Or if you have a counter depth fridge encased in millwork, there are minimal spacial requirements for the fridge for venting. There are details to consider.