Waterboarding Lies

Anonymous
So the administration lied about waterboarding. They said all it took was 35 seconds and we had valuable intel from Abu Zubaydah. Now we find out he was waterboarded 83 times. 83 times! In total, they waterboarded Zubaydah and KSM a total of 266 times.

In what world can partial drowning of a pair of people 266 times not constitute torture? This is evil, pure and simple.



Anonymous
don't care sorry I don't..not if it's going to get a terrorist to fess up to something and save someone's life
jsteele
Site Admin Online
Anonymous wrote:don't care sorry I don't..not if it's going to get a terrorist to fess up to something and save someone's life


Yeah, but the point is it didn't get a terrorist to fess up to something and save someone's life. So, given that your premise for not caring is false, do you care now? Will you care when a US citizen is waterboarded in a foreign country and we have no moral ground to protest?


Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:So the administration lied about waterboarding. They said all it took was 35 seconds and we had valuable intel from Abu Zubaydah. Now we find out he was waterboarded 83 times. 83 times! In total, they waterboarded Zubaydah and KSM a total of 266 times.

In what world can partial drowning of a pair of people 266 times not constitute torture? This is evil, pure and simple.




Evil is cutting off the head of a civilian with a dull knife simply because he is an American. Waterboarding does not rise to that level, it works, and it has saved American lives.
jsteele
Site Admin Online
Anonymous wrote:Waterboarding does not rise to that level, it works, and it has saved American lives.


An excellent example of a waterboarding lie. If it worked, it would not have to be done 266 times. The procedure was not effective and did not save lives -- American or otherwise.

Anonymous
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Waterboarding does not rise to that level, it works, and it has saved American lives.


An excellent example of a waterboarding lie. If it worked, it would not have to be done 266 times. The procedure was not effective and did not save lives -- American or otherwise.


It's not a lie, and you obviously do not have access to classified information. Cheney recently asked that additional information be declassified showing cases in which the procedure worked and saved lives. Regardless of whether you are for or against the procedure, it is foolish to tell the terrorists our limits.

jsteele
Site Admin Online
Anonymous wrote:
It's not a lie, and you obviously do not have access to classified information.


Do you have such access? If waterboarding is effective, why did it have to be done hundreds of times?

I hope Cheney gets his request, but the guy is a known liar so I wouldn't put much faith in what he has to say.

Anonymous
I am going to take a wild guess that you have never lost someone to a terrorist because if you did, you would want all means possible to find out what happened and if it is going to happen again. The CIA does not willy nilly waterboard people..if they are doing such a procedure, it is for good reason. If the CIA comes knocking, it's not because you are selling girl scout cookies. These are bad people they are after.. As for torture, I remember someone being cained in Singapore and we stayed out it..it's their law and actually most Amercans were supportive of the caining and this was for something stupid and was a punishment not a means of preventing a terrorist attack.
jsteele
Site Admin Online
Anonymous wrote:I am going to take a wild guess that you have never lost someone to a terrorist because if you did, you would want all means possible to find out what happened and if it is going to happen again. The CIA does not willy nilly waterboard people..if they are doing such a procedure, it is for good reason. If the CIA comes knocking, it's not because you are selling girl scout cookies. These are bad people they are after.. As for torture, I remember someone being cained in Singapore and we stayed out it..it's their law and actually most Amercans were supportive of the caining and this was for something stupid and was a punishment not a means of preventing a terrorist attack.


I can assure you that I personally have known more victims of terrorism than you do. I'll take a similar guess to yours and say that you have not lost anyone.

You appear to be quite misinformed. What makes the waterboarding that we are discussing so terrible is exactly that it was not "willy nilly". Indeed, it was justified by detailed memos that you can now read on the web. It was repeated hundreds of times on the same individual. That is torture plain and simple.

The US government protested the caning of an American boy in Singapore. I personally opposed it. But, I am not sure why you think that the US being at the level of an autocratic government is a good thing? It is actually the fact that waterboarding puts the US in such brutal company that I oppose the technique.




Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Waterboarding does not rise to that level, it works, and it has saved American lives.


An excellent example of a waterboarding lie. If it worked, it would not have to be done 266 times. The procedure was not effective and did not save lives -- American or otherwise.


It's not a lie, and you obviously do not have access to classified information. Cheney recently asked that additional information be declassified showing cases in which the procedure worked and saved lives. Regardless of whether you are for or against the procedure, it is foolish to tell the terrorists our limits.



A. I think telling a terrorist that we will waterboard him nearly 200 times is not exactly describing limits.
B. Every country that subscribes to the Geneva Convention tells everyone their limits. The Geneva Convention is a human rights guarantee.
C. People who justify torture based on its effectiveness are perpetuating evil. The ends do not justify the means, even though torturers uses the same justification.
D. Obviously you are willing to believe Cheney, who already lied to you. Do you have access to this classified information?
Anonymous
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:don't care sorry I don't..not if it's going to get a terrorist to fess up to something and save someone's life


Yeah, but the point is it didn't get a terrorist to fess up to something and save someone's life. So, given that your premise for not caring is false, do you care now? Will you care when a US citizen is waterboarded in a foreign country and we have no moral ground to protest?




Actually, don't the memos confirm that Zubaydah and KLM gave up the plot against the Liberty Tower in LA after enhanced interrogation?
jsteele
Site Admin Online
Anonymous wrote:
Actually, don't the memos confirm that Zubaydah and KLM gave up the plot against the Liberty Tower in LA after enhanced interrogation?


No. First of all, it's (or was) the "Library Tower". Bush mistakenly called it the "Liberty Tower". Bush's story about this has been completely discredited. The fact that Bush's former speechwriter attempted to make the same argument in yesterday's Washington Post is simply confirmation that I was correct in canceling my subscription. It has been known for some time that the plot against the Library Tower was more "aspirational" then actual. There really wasn't any plot to disrupt. Yeah, after being waterboarded over a hundred times, KSM was probably stretching his memory. It's amazing that the same people who were revealed to have lied time after time about Iraq and other issues are suddenly believed now.


Anonymous
enhanced interrogation?


Is this what we're calling torture these days?
Anonymous
KSM masterminded 9/11. The man deserved that, and worse, and I shed no tears for him.
jsteele
Site Admin Online
Anonymous wrote:KSM masterminded 9/11. The man deserved that, and worse, and I shed no tears for him.


I have no tears for KSM either. My tears are for America. I was taught that countries like the Soviet Union would torture people, but America was better than that. Pity that it's no longer true.

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