Modeling negative behaviors from friends in social skills group?

[Anonymous]

This is a concern for us and I'm wondering whether this has happened to any of your children? What you did about it? Did you stick with the group or find another one? If you stuck with the group what strategies, if any, did you use with your DC to avoid or put a stop to the modeling of negative behaviors? Did this work?

If you stuck it out are you glad you did or do you regret ever starting the group in the first place?

One of the posts in a different thread has us wondering...

[Anonymous]

Yes. This has happened in 3 social skills groups. In one case they actually told us that our child was the model, which is a scary thought because we were their due to social skills struggles. No way in hell would I ever pay for or do for free a social skills groups.

You know what has helped immensely? Playdates with NT kids or kids with similar issues (where parents are closeby coaching as needed). We asked the school counselor for help and she once a month got a group of NT kids together with my child for snack or lunch. Every month it was a different group. We also had our private ST specifically target social pragmatics. Eventually doing sports team helped too.

[Anonymous]

there not their. I don't know why I made that mistake

[Anonymous]

In the group that DS is in, they are very careful to make sure that each child in the group provides a good balance with the rest of the group, and that behaviors are positive and reflect good examples of behavior. And if there are negative behaviors the therapist actually uses it constructively instead of negatively. An example of how NOT to act.

DS had to meet with the head of the group before he was invited to join.

hope that helps?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes. This has happened in 3 social skills groups. In one case they actually told us that our child was the model, which is a scary thought because we were their due to social skills struggles. No way in hell would I ever pay for or do for free a social skills groups.

Except for the 3 you did do.

We never had this problem in the several social skills groups we participated in.

[Anonymous]

Kids can learn negative behaviors from NT kids too. There shouldn't only be one child in a social skills group who is a "model."

The point of a social skills group is that the moderator is able to structure the activities and give feedback so kids are learning how to model appropriate behaviors. So if kids are going off the reservation then that's not a good facilitator.

The worst and would never repeat experience we had was at Rubinoff. The best experience we've had and would recommend is Ivymount.

[Anonymous]

PP, this is OP. Would you mind telling us about the experience at Rubinoff? Was it just a waste of time or money or did the behaviors get worse?

Our DC tends to copy the behavior of peers. At our DC's first two meetings things did not go well. In the first session one kid ran out screaming because he didn't want to participate anymore and in the second a different kid several other kids including our DC.

We are sending DC back and haven't seen DC imitate the behaviors yet but we're worried if this goes on for longer we're not doing DC any favors by sticking with the group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP, this is OP. Would you mind telling us about the experience at Rubinoff? Was it just a waste of time or money or did the behaviors get worse?

Our DC tends to copy the behavior of peers. At our DC's first two meetings things did not go well. In the first session one kid ran out screaming because he didn't want to participate anymore and in the second a different kid several other kids including our DC.

We are sending DC back and haven't seen DC imitate the behaviors yet but we're worried if this goes on for longer we're not doing DC any favors by sticking with the group.

Basically, at Rubionoff, the facilitators were disorganized, rude to parents, and the groups were more of a hodge podge of kids and approach. Often they didn't have an adequate number of kids to really hold a group. I'm sorry, two isn't a social skills group--it's a playdate that I'm paying out the nose for. So with a tiny "group," sometimes the facilitators outnumbered participants.

We did Unstuck and On Target at Ivymount which follows a clear, research based curriculum and parents take a class concurrently while their kid is in the social skills group, which is one reason the price is so high. It felt empowering vs. dumping kid off at what seemed like a black hole.

The social skill group experience in general should be enjoyable for a kid. A child running away from a group might be a reflection of a child just having a bad day or not being ready for a group b/c they're unable to regulate themselves or channel their anxiety. If more than one kid is doing this, I'd question if it is the kids--are they just not able to participate in the given format or is it the approach/facilitator.

[Anonymous]

My child modeled several good behaviors from his friends at his social skills group.

[Anonymous]

Thank you again, PPs.
To PP who said two is not a social skills group -- what did you do in the case when there aren't enough kids?
Did you drop out and tell the facilitator that you'd be back during the next session?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thank you again, PPs.
To PP who said two is not a social skills group -- what did you do in the case when there aren't enough kids?
Did you drop out and tell the facilitator that you'd be back during the next session?

When we joined a group toward the end of the session; there were four kids total. The facilitator knew two of the kids weren't coming back for the next session and were not upfront with us about this when we signed up for the following session. We stuck it out for a while, but I was just disgusted with the disorganization and unprofessionalism of the staff.

Depending on the therapeutic goal, there are OTs, STs, or behavioral therapists that do facilitated dyads or triads. That's fine, but a provider needs to define upfront what their method is not just using a "group" as a means to make money by seeing multiple kids at a time.

Little Johnny might be fine on a one-on-one play date with his friend, but may have issues that emerge or exacerbated in a group setting, so on the playground for example,

--a kid with ADHD may have trouble interrupting/getting overly excited/keeping hands to self
--a kid with flexibility issues may try to control the group/not be able to compromise
--a kid with anxiety may have trouble advocating for themselves or isolates themselves as a coping strategy
--a kid with expressive delays or ADHD may have more difficulty formulating response to others

So in a structured social skills group, you're giving kids the opportunity to practice the skill they have difficulty with in a safe setting.

[Anonymous]

OP again. 12:58, thank you for this! That is a very helpful explanation.

If you don't mind, a follow up: So is part of the point of a group to put the child under some stress so that some behaviors show up so they can be corrected or discussed, but not too much stress that the child becomes disruptive to the rest of the group?

I think it's really unprofessional that they wouldn't be up front with you about this and thank you for warning us that this kind of thing can happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP again. 12:58, thank you for this! That is a very helpful explanation.

If you don't mind, a follow up: So is part of the point of a group to put the child under some stress so that some behaviors show up so they can be corrected or discussed, but not too much stress that the child becomes disruptive to the rest of the group?

I think it's really unprofessional that they wouldn't be up front with you about this and thank you for warning us that this kind of thing can happen.

I don't think "putting stress on a kid" is the right phrase. Being in a group unto itself might stress out a kid though. They might act out as a consequence. A good facilitator should be able to help a kid work through these reactions though if they are prepared to deal with the behaviors. That's one of the reasons why it's tricky forming any kind of "group" of SN kids. At a SN school, they probably wouldn't put 10 kids in the same class with hyperactivity. You'd need to find a balance.

Also, "disruptive" is a nebulous term and can mean anything from a kid getting up and walking away from a group activity, to saying obnoxious things, to hitting, yelling, or distracting tics. Being disruptive can be intention or unintentional. "Acceptable" or unacceptable. Hitting is unacceptable. Acceptable: A kid who has a verbal or motor tic might be disruptive, but it's unintentional and probably not going to influence or harm any other kid in a group.

When my kid was a toddler (many moons ago) we did a ST group where one kid was a yeller. This child had some obvious severe delays, and it made me wary for my kid participating in the group b/c I personally found it unnerving. My kid was fine. Fast forward: these two kids probably would never be grouped together again b/c they are functioning at vastly different levels. But more often there's more commonality than we realize. My ADHD/speech delayed kid was in a class with a kid diagnosed with Aspergers. They were like day and night from a clinical perspective but equally socially awkward in their own ways. They became great friends. So our roots might look different, but the rose still smells as sweet. So basically don't be put off b/c kids have different diagnoses.

Which is another reason that I was impressed with the Ivymount groups--b/c they have different type groups for different type kids. I know there was a poster on this forum who had a legitimately bad experience with them (got a letter of being accepted then rejected), but my sense is that this is more the exception than the rule. (The person who runs the Outreach program actually has a severely disabled child so has probably been through her own tribulations and wouldn't want to inflict them on another.)

We are all trying to be savvy consumers, but we're shopping what is essentially priceless--help for our kids and trusting others to provide it. It sounds like you're struggling whether the group you're currently in is helpful, and there's been some unsettling developments--like kids running out upset. So if you're still unsure about whether to pull the plug and move on, the first thing I would do is schedule a chat with the organizer b/f making a decision.

[Anonymous]

14:39 here. Just to clarify--I found the yelling unnerving not the kid or the delays.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In the group that DS is in, they are very careful to make sure that each child in the group provides a good balance with the rest of the group, and that behaviors are positive and reflect good examples of behavior. And if there are negative behaviors the therapist actually uses it constructively instead of negatively. An example of how NOT to act.

DS had to meet with the head of the group before he was invited to join.

hope that helps?

This has been our experience in 4 different groups.