4 seasons season 2 — better than first

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Was anyone else surprised they never circled back on the story Tina Fey’s character mentioned about her childhood during the Covid episode? I thought they were going to go further with that. Otherwise it seemed kind of strange to bother mentioning.

Yes!! I thought that would be addressed more directly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband and I both struggled in season 2 with how incredibly unlikeable Jack (Will Forte) was. They kind of redeemed him by the end but it was hard to get to that point.

I get that the idea was that he was grieving his friend, but they all lost a friend. His pushiness in wanting everyone to grieve the same way reminded me of people in my real life and it was so irritating -- the narcissism of deciding your feelings are everyone's feelings and if they can't get on board with how you are expressing your feelings, it must be because their feelings are wrong.

Also it was extremely on point that he was the most insane about Covid precautions but then his insanity resulted in them all getting Covid. Tracks, that happened in our friend bubble too!

I think Jack was just sort of a doormat in season 1 so they needed to give him some texture. I found his need to have peolel grieve in a specific way to be realistic and fitting his character but what was irritating was everyone else’s inability to validate that feeling and then say “that’s not right for me though.” But I guess it made sense in the context of Tina fey’s character having a pathological need to avoid upsetting or emotional conversations. He has basically accommodated that their whole lives by being the easy going one, emotionally, so then when he hits a rough spot, that dynamic doesn’t work. And I think nicks death hit him harder because it was clear that was his only friend and Nick was sort of his “cool guy North Star” friend. The other couple have all their fabulous gay friends that they keep mentioning.

The whole show was basically about how the habits you’ve developed over decades can fall apart in middle age, for various reasons. Each one of the couples had a dynamic that was shown to be dysfunctional in season 1 and in season 2 they had to basically rearrange that dynamic. (With anne, it was her utter dependency on Nick —when Nick died, she replaced him with his gf/baby and became their caretaker … then realized this is f—ed up and I don’t even really remember who I was before I started down that path.).

The most unlikeable Jack episode was the Covid flashback episode though, before Nick died. It shows that he was actually not chill at all before Nick died -- he had extreme anxiety and could make weird and unsupportable choices in service to his anxiety. There's actually this great parallel between his behavior in that episode and his story arc for the season. In the Covid episode, he is the one suffering from extreme Covid anxiety, even considering sleeping in the car because he's so afraid to be inside around other people. He's obsessive about their Covid rituals like reading the poem every night, and while Tina Fey's character is supportive of this because she can see he needs it, you can also see that it's not what she needs and he doesn't really seem interested in what she needs. Then when they all start getting Covid his first instinct is to blame everyone else for breaking quarantine, until his daughter points out that he was the one who broke quarantine to get all those Covid tests, and he went to a clinic full of sick people to get them.

This is similar to what happens in the aftermath of Nick's death, with his grief making it impossible for him to see that others are also grieving but in their own way. He's once again being ruled by his emotions (this time grief and anger instead of anxiety) and Tina Fey is again focused on trying to give him what he needs. Her own needs get pushed to the back burner and when she does start to assert herself a bit during the summer episodes, it leads to him suggesting the "free balling" approach where they basically live separate lives. He is then a complete jerk at Thanksgiving (he doesn't even shower after his run or change out of his sweaty clothes???) has a huge meltdown and throws the turkey (ostensibly because he's mad at Danny for something Danny didn't even do, but actually because he just has unprocessed grief that is coming out as rage), and then becomes obsessed with everyone being mad at him for it even though they are all very forgiving.

And even then, Tina Fey focuses on what he needs, pushing him to do the marathon and recognizing that he uses physicality to work through emotions. Yes, it's nice when he pushes her to really express her own fears to him and he is very receptive and they come together at the end. But by the time that happens, he's spent he entire season focused pretty much entirely on his own emotions, behaving like a selfish child, and just generally being hard to deal with.

I like a lot of the ideas in this thread but will push back on this one. Tina Fey's character thinks she is being supportive but she's actually not because she keeps pushing Jack to get past grief and interrupts him whenever he tries to explain to get how he's really feeling. She's basically telling him to bottle up his true emotions and just act more happy. You can't exactly blame her for his blow ups, but perhaps if he was allowed to actually talk about and process how he feels he wouldn't get to that point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can't stand Tina Fey.

You will be amazed to learn that there's a simple way to cope with this fact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Was anyone else surprised they never circled back on the story Tina Fey’s character mentioned about her childhood during the Covid episode? I thought they were going to go further with that. Otherwise it seemed kind of strange to bother mentioning.

Yes!! I thought that would be addressed more directly.

What did she say? I can’t remember.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I mean, the acting is good. But I don't really get it viscerally as a Gen X person. It doesn't resonate to our generation's struggles.

Which is what?

[Anonymous]

I watched both seasons together without my husband and there were so many just gut wrenching, raw things about this series. I really feel it portrays the messiness of life. With the exception of someone dealing with a disabled or very ill spouse.

I'm 41 and know many disabled spouses. All disabled young too.

I loved how really it was, with humor, and I can understand how it would make other people extremely uncomfortable. It's too close to home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Was anyone else surprised they never circled back on the story Tina Fey’s character mentioned about her childhood during the Covid episode? I thought they were going to go further with that. Otherwise it seemed kind of strange to bother mentioning.

Yes!! I thought that would be addressed more directly.

I did too. I thought that might be explained during the ridiculous scenes where they're finishing the marathon together, but they didn't go there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Was anyone else surprised they never circled back on the story Tina Fey’s character mentioned about her childhood during the Covid episode? I thought they were going to go further with that. Otherwise it seemed kind of strange to bother mentioning.

Yes!! I thought that would be addressed more directly.

What did she say? I can’t remember.

Something like she spent some years living with her grandparents because of her mother's depression? Which seemed to come as a shock to her best friend since college.

[Anonymous]

I didn't find it very funny. But I did laugh at the soap dispenser.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Was anyone else surprised they never circled back on the story Tina Fey’s character mentioned about her childhood during the Covid episode? I thought they were going to go further with that. Otherwise it seemed kind of strange to bother mentioning.

Yes!! I thought that would be addressed more directly.

What did she say? I can’t remember.

Something like she spent some years living with her grandparents because of her mother's depression? Which seemed to come as a shock to her best friend since college.

It may be a generational thing -- the older you are, the less likely you are to be an open book, even to your loved ones.

I think a lot of viewers would have a frame of reference for "effed up thing we didn't discuss, to our disadvantage even years later." We don't need a big long unpacking and examination

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Was anyone else surprised they never circled back on the story Tina Fey’s character mentioned about her childhood during the Covid episode? I thought they were going to go further with that. Otherwise it seemed kind of strange to bother mentioning.

Yes!! I thought that would be addressed more directly.

What did she say? I can’t remember.

Something like she spent some years living with her grandparents because of her mother's depression? Which seemed to come as a shock to her best friend since college.

It may be a generational thing -- the older you are, the less likely you are to be an open book, even to your loved ones.

I think a lot of viewers would have a frame of reference for "effed up thing we didn't discuss, to our disadvantage even years later." We don't need a big long unpacking and examination

Or just might not resonate the same in her life as it did years ago. I’m not there yet but by the time you are 55 you’ve done some things. She’s had this whole career, been in a 30 year relationship, raised a child, suffered loss of her friends and family. I’m not dismissing childhood trauma, but things that happen in childhood seem far and distant, especially if you’ve dealt with a lot of it which it sounds like she has.

It sounds like both her and her husband have been amenable to therapy and done it so she probably has also dealt with a lot of that at this point in her life, it’s not top of mind. You just aren’t going to constantly bring up something that happened over 30 years ago with your adult friends.

[Anonymous]

There was a bit where Tina feys character just sort of lists off all the things contributing to her mid aged quasi misery and one of them was “I’m at the pinnacle of a career that I’ve worked my whole life to achieve, and it’s just okay.” Her whole list was very relatable, at least for me.

I related to her list too but I was so frustrated that once again she was making everything about her when her husband was begging to be allowed to express his own feelings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Was anyone else surprised they never circled back on the story Tina Fey’s character mentioned about her childhood during the Covid episode? I thought they were going to go further with that. Otherwise it seemed kind of strange to bother mentioning.

Yes!! I thought that would be addressed more directly.

What did she say? I can’t remember.

Something like she spent some years living with her grandparents because of her mother's depression? Which seemed to come as a shock to her best friend since college.

She said she spent a year living with her aunt because her mom was too sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

There was a bit where Tina feys character just sort of lists off all the things contributing to her mid aged quasi misery and one of them was “I’m at the pinnacle of a career that I’ve worked my whole life to achieve, and it’s just okay.” Her whole list was very relatable, at least for me.

I related to her list too but I was so frustrated that once again she was making everything about her when her husband was begging to be allowed to express his own feelings.

I really didn't read their dynamic this way at all. I get the sense that Jack has *always* been very expressive about his feelings and that Tina Fey had gotten into the habit of accommodating and walking on eggshells around him. We see that it was this way before Nick died -- in the Covid flashback episode, Jack is riddled with anxiety and expressing it constantly, and she's trying to support him by doing the daily poetry thing and advocating for him to others, but he is oblivious to how his behavior is impacting her or other people and only concerned about his own feelings. This continues when Nick dies. In the mountain/hiking episodes, Jack is talking a lot about his grief and the whole trip is his idea, and Tina Fey is again advocating for him and telling others that Jack "needs" this and she's trying to be supportive. It's also understandable why she might feel overwhelmed by his feelings or be walking on eggshells around him because he is obviously dealing with a ton of rage, as evidenced by him destroying that snack shack. Then he starts smoking weed every night to cope and doesn't tell her, and she only finds out because Danny finds the vape pen, and then when she tries to talk to him about it, he overreacts and decides they will just do their own thing and leave each other alone. Which leads to him being self-destructive and rude (it was unreal to me that he showed up to Thanksgiving still wearing his sweaty running clothes and then doesn't even bother to change while walking around being rude to all the people Anne has invited to her home to distract her from Nick memories). And then he has a GIANT fit and melts down in front of everyone and throws their dinner in the yard.

It seems to me like Jack was expressing his feelings constantly, she got overwhelmed, and because of her history with her mom (who was depressed to the point of not being able to function or care for her as a child) she just went into survival mode which mean appeasing and accommodating but maintaining emotional distance. Which is understandable because when someone you are in a relationship with is going back and forth between popping off in rage episodes and then totally withdrawing into substances to avoid thinking, it can be scary and frustrating.

It's nice at the end when he encourages her to express her own feelings for once (which she never gets to do, she always has to be the person in their marriage who is in control of her emotions and can be in a support role to him, even before Nick's death) and then is supportive. That was a nice side of him. But everything before that was his feelings taking center stage and her feeling she has no choice but to be supportive and listen and let him have his way. He's very emotionally immature.

Mostly I was waiting for someone on the show to tell him "you need to go to therapy instead of expecting your wife and friends to handle you with kid gloves through a difficult time -- this is life, sometimes it's hard, but you need to develop healthy coping methods to get through it, and this is not healthy." Like I'm sorry he was grieving and yes, losing a friend is incredibly hard, but he seemed to be waiting for others to come help him feel better instead of taking responsibility for his own emotions and figuring out how to deal with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I didn't find it very funny. But I did laugh at the soap dispenser.

That is the only thing I really laughed at! I would watch a show about Danny's mom and aunt.