Reality check: social scene at UChicago

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At our private (50% to T20) the kids who go to Chicago are often the very smart kids who are unconnected, want to major in Econ or something humanities related, and know how to play their cards right.

Very very accurate description of the Sidwell and Horace Mann kids I know who go to Chicago

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Vanderbilt tends to self-select for a lot of "smart, but social" kids who play down their intelligence and care about campus popularity. However, this has changed sooooo much at Vanderbilt, and it's no longer the southern party playpen it was in the early 2000s. The student body at Vandy is more similar to the Ivies/UChicago than in previous eras, because it has aggressively courted super-high scorers (35+ ACT, 1560+ SAT) with the goal of boosting their reputation.

UChicago has also transformed because they've gone after the social elites at top private day and boarding schools. Look at the matriculation data at any top private school, and you'll see 30+ UChicago vs maybe 10 at HYPS over a 5 year span. Choate has 63 UChicago matriculants over the past 5 years.

They're probably more similar than you think, but Vandy has the school spirit edge because of their D1 sports programs.

Vanderbilt's student body is not similar to Ivies. 395 students submitted an SAT score, of which only 99 have an SAT 1560 or above.

Vanderbilt
1,635 freshman
99 have SAT 1560 or above
6% of freshman class

Harvard
1,641 freshman
446 have SAT 1560 or above
27% of freshman class

Yale
1,633 freshman
289 have SAT 1560 or above
17% of freshman class

Princeton
1,404 freshman
212 have SAT 1560 or above
15% of freshman class

There’s no effective difference between a 1500 and 1560

Of course there is.

What a silly thing to say.

Getting a 1500 (plus a sufficient high GPA) gets your application reviewed but that review is holistic and doesn't ignore your SAT score just because you got the bare minimum to justify a look.

The difference between a 1500 and 1560 is about two or three questions. The question for a very busy junior in high school shooting for competitive schools is whether it is worth all the extra time to study for those extra two or three questions, when there are a lot of other things they could be doing. And the answer is no. At the 1500/34 mark, the ECs become far more important. Every top school will take the 1500 with great ECs over the 1560 who isn't really bringing anything else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Vanderbilt tends to self-select for a lot of "smart, but social" kids who play down their intelligence and care about campus popularity. However, this has changed sooooo much at Vanderbilt, and it's no longer the southern party playpen it was in the early 2000s. The student body at Vandy is more similar to the Ivies/UChicago than in previous eras, because it has aggressively courted super-high scorers (35+ ACT, 1560+ SAT) with the goal of boosting their reputation.

UChicago has also transformed because they've gone after the social elites at top private day and boarding schools. Look at the matriculation data at any top private school, and you'll see 30+ UChicago vs maybe 10 at HYPS over a 5 year span. Choate has 63 UChicago matriculants over the past 5 years.

They're probably more similar than you think, but Vandy has the school spirit edge because of their D1 sports programs.

Vanderbilt's student body is not similar to Ivies. 395 students submitted an SAT score, of which only 99 have an SAT 1560 or above.

Vanderbilt
1,635 freshman
99 have SAT 1560 or above
6% of freshman class

Harvard
1,641 freshman
446 have SAT 1560 or above
27% of freshman class

Yale
1,633 freshman
289 have SAT 1560 or above
17% of freshman class

Princeton
1,404 freshman
212 have SAT 1560 or above
15% of freshman class

There’s no effective difference between a 1500 and 1560

Of course there is.

What a silly thing to say.

Getting a 1500 (plus a sufficient high GPA) gets your application reviewed but that review is holistic and doesn't ignore your SAT score just because you got the bare minimum to justify a look.

The difference between a 1500 and 1560 is about two or three questions. The question for a very busy junior in high school shooting for competitive schools is whether it is worth all the extra time to study for those extra two or three questions, when there are a lot of other things they could be doing. And the answer is no. At the 1500/34 mark, the ECs become far more important. Every top school will take the 1500 with great ECs over the 1560 who isn't really bringing anything else.

Under the old paper system, it's about 2-3 questions per section. With 50-60 questions per section, you're missing 5% of the questions.
Who knows what it means with the new digital SAT.
If you have to make a tradeoff between 1560 and ECs you may not be competitive to get into those top schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Vanderbilt tends to self-select for a lot of "smart, but social" kids who play down their intelligence and care about campus popularity. However, this has changed sooooo much at Vanderbilt, and it's no longer the southern party playpen it was in the early 2000s. The student body at Vandy is more similar to the Ivies/UChicago than in previous eras, because it has aggressively courted super-high scorers (35+ ACT, 1560+ SAT) with the goal of boosting their reputation.

UChicago has also transformed because they've gone after the social elites at top private day and boarding schools. Look at the matriculation data at any top private school, and you'll see 30+ UChicago vs maybe 10 at HYPS over a 5 year span. Choate has 63 UChicago matriculants over the past 5 years.

They're probably more similar than you think, but Vandy has the school spirit edge because of their D1 sports programs.

Vanderbilt's student body is not similar to Ivies. 395 students submitted an SAT score, of which only 99 have an SAT 1560 or above.

Vanderbilt
1,635 freshman
99 have SAT 1560 or above
6% of freshman class

Harvard
1,641 freshman
446 have SAT 1560 or above
27% of freshman class

Yale
1,633 freshman
289 have SAT 1560 or above
17% of freshman class

Princeton
1,404 freshman
212 have SAT 1560 or above
15% of freshman class

There’s no effective difference between a 1500 and 1560

Of course there is.

What a silly thing to say.

Getting a 1500 (plus a sufficient high GPA) gets your application reviewed but that review is holistic and doesn't ignore your SAT score just because you got the bare minimum to justify a look.

The difference between a 1500 and 1560 is about two or three questions. The question for a very busy junior in high school shooting for competitive schools is whether it is worth all the extra time to study for those extra two or three questions, when there are a lot of other things they could be doing. And the answer is no. At the 1500/34 mark, the ECs become far more important. Every top school will take the 1500 with great ECs over the 1560 who isn't really bringing anything else.

It's not a random 2-3 questions, it's usually the trickiest questions, which is why most students can never get above 1550, no matter how much studying they do. Having a 1560+ is a huge signal that does more merely filter them along with 1450+ (25 percentile and up) kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Vanderbilt tends to self-select for a lot of "smart, but social" kids who play down their intelligence and care about campus popularity. However, this has changed sooooo much at Vanderbilt, and it's no longer the southern party playpen it was in the early 2000s. The student body at Vandy is more similar to the Ivies/UChicago than in previous eras, because it has aggressively courted super-high scorers (35+ ACT, 1560+ SAT) with the goal of boosting their reputation.

UChicago has also transformed because they've gone after the social elites at top private day and boarding schools. Look at the matriculation data at any top private school, and you'll see 30+ UChicago vs maybe 10 at HYPS over a 5 year span. Choate has 63 UChicago matriculants over the past 5 years.

They're probably more similar than you think, but Vandy has the school spirit edge because of their D1 sports programs.

Vanderbilt's student body is not similar to Ivies. 395 students submitted an SAT score, of which only 99 have an SAT 1560 or above.

Vanderbilt
1,635 freshman
99 have SAT 1560 or above
6% of freshman class

Harvard
1,641 freshman
446 have SAT 1560 or above
27% of freshman class

Yale
1,633 freshman
289 have SAT 1560 or above
17% of freshman class

Princeton
1,404 freshman
212 have SAT 1560 or above
15% of freshman class

There’s no effective difference between a 1500 and 1560

Of course there is.

What a silly thing to say.

Getting a 1500 (plus a sufficient high GPA) gets your application reviewed but that review is holistic and doesn't ignore your SAT score just because you got the bare minimum to justify a look.

The difference between a 1500 and 1560 is about two or three questions. The question for a very busy junior in high school shooting for competitive schools is whether it is worth all the extra time to study for those extra two or three questions, when there are a lot of other things they could be doing. And the answer is no. At the 1500/34 mark, the ECs become far more important. Every top school will take the 1500 with great ECs over the 1560 who isn't really bringing anything else.

Why are you assuming 1560 isn't bringing anything else. IRL it's opposite, 1560 typically is the one who brings a lot more to the table.

[Anonymous]

At my nephew's boarding school, the Uchicago admits are usually in the top 4 deciles and apply ED. These kids aren't in the top decile and unhooked, so they're just outside the zone which has Ivy chances. Most kids among the top of the class do not apply ED to Chicago. The Uchicago kids were usually the B+/A- students. These kids would've easily been A/A+ students at a regular high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At my nephew's boarding school, the Uchicago admits are usually in the top 4 deciles and apply ED. These kids aren't in the top decile and unhooked, so they're just outside the zone which has Ivy chances. Most kids among the top of the class do not apply ED to Chicago. The Uchicago kids were usually the B+/A- students. These kids would've easily been A/A+ students at a regular high school.

Nobody is asking about that. OP is wondering about the on-campus social scene, not the Scoir data from Larlo’s boarding school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UChicago today is a very different institution than 15 years ago. I don't think the old "where fun goes to die" and "awkward nerd" stereotype still applies.

They've aggressively targeted kids from prestigious private schools, oftentimes taking 15-20+ kids annually from places like Andover/Exeter/Choate/Horace Mann, etc. This has resulted in a far more socially polished and culturally elite student body than they've historically had. These are the sorts of kids that dominated the Ivies in the 80's/90's and that the Ivies now shun for "equity" reasons.

NP I completely agree with this. From our feeder private (the kind this board hates: 30%+ to T10 outside of DMV), the savvy, well groomed, full pay B+/A- kids are headed to U Chicago, the brilliant but awkward 3.95 kids (no one gets all As at our school), a fair amount scholarship kids and first gens are headed to HYP. If I have to bet, the 2nd group will graduate and eventually work as researchers, academia, community leaders/in non profits or similar while the first group graduate to work on Wall Street/ go into consulting. The 2nd group are smart and driven too, but they know how to network, not spend too much time studying and still make good grades (though not top grades). Based on who I see admitted, U Chicago may get higher donations per alumni donor from this new crop of admits at least from our n=1 small private school. I can totally see the HYP first-gen kids come back to teach at our school whereas the U Chicago kids will come back to buy our school for their private equity firms.

These are a lot of assumptions to draw based on the small dataset of kids from one high school. This pattern is different at my kids’ school, where the ivy kids are mostly very polished and preprofessional and often very athletic.

Same here. Top private.

Polished, super smart: Princeton, Dartmouth and Yale

Top non-polished, frankly often kids of immigrants: Harvard and Stanford

Second level kids of both types who want high academics and/or prestige: Chicago

Omg this is our non-DMV private (40-50% to T25 or so).

Polished, Wall Street-bound, finance or consulting: Princeton, Duke (moving up on everyone's list), Williams, Dartmouth, Yale, Vanderbilt, Penn, Northwestern

Non-polished, very book smart, yes, often children of immigrants: HSM, Columbia, JHU

Second-level: Chicago, Cornell, Georgetown, Rice, WashU

Why do you think Duke is moving up on everyone's list?

At our non-DC private its the choice for the val/sal nowadays.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Vanderbilt tends to self-select for a lot of "smart, but social" kids who play down their intelligence and care about campus popularity. However, this has changed sooooo much at Vanderbilt, and it's no longer the southern party playpen it was in the early 2000s. The student body at Vandy is more similar to the Ivies/UChicago than in previous eras, because it has aggressively courted super-high scorers (35+ ACT, 1560+ SAT) with the goal of boosting their reputation.

UChicago has also transformed because they've gone after the social elites at top private day and boarding schools. Look at the matriculation data at any top private school, and you'll see 30+ UChicago vs maybe 10 at HYPS over a 5 year span. Choate has 63 UChicago matriculants over the past 5 years.

They're probably more similar than you think, but Vandy has the school spirit edge because of their D1 sports programs.

Vanderbilt's student body is not similar to Ivies. 395 students submitted an SAT score, of which only 99 have an SAT 1560 or above.

Vanderbilt
1,635 freshman
99 have SAT 1560 or above
6% of freshman class

Harvard
1,641 freshman
446 have SAT 1560 or above
27% of freshman class

Yale
1,633 freshman
289 have SAT 1560 or above
17% of freshman class

Princeton
1,404 freshman
212 have SAT 1560 or above
15% of freshman class

There’s no effective difference between a 1500 and 1560

Of course there is.

What a silly thing to say.

Getting a 1500 (plus a sufficient high GPA) gets your application reviewed but that review is holistic and doesn't ignore your SAT score just because you got the bare minimum to justify a look.

The difference between a 1500 and 1560 is about two or three questions. The question for a very busy junior in high school shooting for competitive schools is whether it is worth all the extra time to study for those extra two or three questions, when there are a lot of other things they could be doing. And the answer is no. At the 1500/34 mark, the ECs become far more important. Every top school will take the 1500 with great ECs over the 1560 who isn't really bringing anything else.

You made it sound as though high schoolers are choosing to do ECs vs. taking the SAT again, when you know almost all kids take the SAT multiple times (likely including your own kids) to get a higher score. And everyone does ECs, including the high scorers. It's not an either or decision. Kids who have been tutored for the SAT for 6-12 months, took it 3+ times, superscored and still can't score higher than 1500 are not the same as the kids scoring at the 99th percentile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Vanderbilt tends to self-select for a lot of "smart, but social" kids who play down their intelligence and care about campus popularity. However, this has changed sooooo much at Vanderbilt, and it's no longer the southern party playpen it was in the early 2000s. The student body at Vandy is more similar to the Ivies/UChicago than in previous eras, because it has aggressively courted super-high scorers (35+ ACT, 1560+ SAT) with the goal of boosting their reputation.

UChicago has also transformed because they've gone after the social elites at top private day and boarding schools. Look at the matriculation data at any top private school, and you'll see 30+ UChicago vs maybe 10 at HYPS over a 5 year span. Choate has 63 UChicago matriculants over the past 5 years.

They're probably more similar than you think, but Vandy has the school spirit edge because of their D1 sports programs.

Vanderbilt's student body is not similar to Ivies. 395 students submitted an SAT score, of which only 99 have an SAT 1560 or above.

Vanderbilt
1,635 freshman
99 have SAT 1560 or above
6% of freshman class

Harvard
1,641 freshman
446 have SAT 1560 or above
27% of freshman class

Yale
1,633 freshman
289 have SAT 1560 or above
17% of freshman class

Princeton
1,404 freshman
212 have SAT 1560 or above
15% of freshman class

There’s no effective difference between a 1500 and 1560

Of course there is.

What a silly thing to say.

Getting a 1500 (plus a sufficient high GPA) gets your application reviewed but that review is holistic and doesn't ignore your SAT score just because you got the bare minimum to justify a look.

The difference between a 1500 and 1560 is about two or three questions. The question for a very busy junior in high school shooting for competitive schools is whether it is worth all the extra time to study for those extra two or three questions, when there are a lot of other things they could be doing. And the answer is no. At the 1500/34 mark, the ECs become far more important. Every top school will take the 1500 with great ECs over the 1560 who isn't really bringing anything else.

If you say there is no difference between a 1500 and a 1560, does that also mean there is no difference between a 1500 and a 1440? Read what you wrote above...if a 1500 kid needs to study hours and hours to get extra 2-3 questions right, they may naturally be closer in ability to the kids who score 1440 than the ones who score 1560.

[Anonymous]

Uchicago's social scene is very fragmented and cliquey. On one hand, they have the traditional nerdy STEM kids that are introverted, geeky, and love the theoretical Uchicago education.

On the other end, there are hordes of elite prep school products enrolled in Econ and trying to land finance jobs. These kids are responsible for revitalizing Uchicago's greek system and creating a much less egalitarian social hierarchy than in previous generations.

The swarm of prep school kids at Chicago has also created an environment where questions like "where did you go to high school?" now get tossed around, and students from the elite, famous prep schools have access to a lot of campus social capital. If you attended Andover, Choate, or Horace Mann, then there's tons of your classmates floating around campus and they can loop you into the exclusive campus groups, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Uchicago's social scene is very fragmented and cliquey. On one hand, they have the traditional nerdy STEM kids that are introverted, geeky, and love the theoretical Uchicago education.

On the other end, there are hordes of elite prep school products enrolled in Econ and trying to land finance jobs. These kids are responsible for revitalizing Uchicago's greek system and creating a much less egalitarian social hierarchy than in previous generations.

The swarm of prep school kids at Chicago has also created an environment where questions like "where did you go to high school?" now get tossed around, and students from the elite, famous prep schools have access to a lot of campus social capital. If you attended Andover, Choate, or Horace Mann, then there's tons of your classmates floating around campus and they can loop you into the exclusive campus groups, etc.

This is well put. And you're not getting those finance jobs if you're not coming in with connections. my kid attends a private high school that sends a ton to Chicago and they're all Econ majors and will get jobs through family connections. they're rising sophomores now and they all have internships because they called family friends. To a person. It's remarkable.

your average Reddit kid from DMV suburbia or middle American paying $100k to Chicago hoping to get a top finance job? Uh no. not happening . It's predetermined.

[Anonymous]

I am so confused. So some parents said that the Chicago private kids are unhooked, while other parents said they are hooked so they can get finance jobs. So which one is true?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Uchicago's social scene is very fragmented and cliquey. On one hand, they have the traditional nerdy STEM kids that are introverted, geeky, and love the theoretical Uchicago education.

On the other end, there are hordes of elite prep school products enrolled in Econ and trying to land finance jobs. These kids are responsible for revitalizing Uchicago's greek system and creating a much less egalitarian social hierarchy than in previous generations.

The swarm of prep school kids at Chicago has also created an environment where questions like "where did you go to high school?" now get tossed around, and studrents from the elite, famous prep schools have access to a lot of campus social capital. If you attended Andover, Choate, or Horace Mann, then there's tons of your classmates floating around campus and they can loop you into the exclusive campus groups, etc.

My daughter just laughed out loud when I asked her if the Greek system has been revitalized by a bunch of "elite school products creating a much less egalitarian social hierarchy than in previous generations" ....you sound like the Onion! U Chicago Greeks play Dungeons and Dragons in their party rooms - probably not what you want to hear - but it's true. Just let them be. Yeesh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You mentioned ED2—what's the ED1 choice?

Yale REA

This was my daughter last year. Did REA to Yale and then ED2 to Chicago, which was a very close 2nd choice to Yale. I agree they are far more similar than Vanderbilt and Chicago. Not sure why someone would be interested in those two as top choices aside from ranking and strategy.
Regardless, my daughter is finishing her first year. Had an amazing year and plenty of social outlets. Went to fraternity parties, out to various events and dinners in Hyde Park and Chicago, hung out with friends, etc. There is a wide range of personalities, as at most schools, and social activities for all types. My kid said she doesn’t really know anyone who is unhappy, but does know a few who have struggled academically as they came from less rigorous high schools.