College Sophomore struggling with Calc 2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is having difficulties with Calc2, his journey to med school will be very problematic.

med school does not require math beyond passing calc and basic statistics

[Anonymous]

While a college might accept high school AP classes, I doubt a medical school (who has specific course requirements) will accept a high school O Chem class. My DS is an attending physician and community college classes were not accepted. Again, I am not talking about an English class, but the required courses needed to apply to med school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:While a college might accept high school AP classes, I doubt a medical school (who has specific course requirements) will accept a high school O Chem class. My DS is an attending physician and community college classes were not accepted. Again, I am not talking about an English class, but the required courses needed to apply to med school.

No. O chem is NOT accepted by med school. Not even gen chem. You can’t use AP courses in lieu of college gen chem or ochem. However, AP Cal BC (not AB) score 5 is accepted, you just need to take statistics for math in college.

I think AP physics score 5 is also accepted but not sure.

[Anonymous]

This is what people mean when they talk about kids being weeded out of pre-med classes. Tons of kids plan to go pre-med, but do not get there because STEM does not come easy to them. There's no reason to fight your own strengths. Why not encourage your child to try another area where your child may naturally be stronger?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is what people mean when they talk about kids being weeded out of pre-med classes. Tons of kids plan to go pre-med, but do not get there because STEM does not come easy to them. There's no reason to fight your own strengths. Why not encourage your child to try another area where your child may naturally be stronger?

Weed out at DC’s state flagship is huge, losing half premed wannabe after the first year. Losing half of the remaining again after OChem

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is what people mean when they talk about kids being weeded out of pre-med classes. Tons of kids plan to go pre-med, but do not get there because STEM does not come easy to them. There's no reason to fight your own strengths. Why not encourage your child to try another area where your child may naturally be stronger?

Weed out at DC’s state flagship is huge, losing half premed wannabe after the first year. Losing half of the remaining again after OChem

There's nothing wrong with pivoting from premed to something else. I did the same thing when I got a B- in Gen Chem. I changed to poli sci major, got into a good law school, became a lawyer and all is fine.

However, someone who struggles in STEM and stays premed for too long ends up basically ruining their GPA and also isn't going to want to become a PA, RN or DO. Heck, most of them probably didn't even want to become family docs but were hoping to become a specialist. So, what other good career options are available for someone who gets weeded out?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is what people mean when they talk about kids being weeded out of pre-med classes. Tons of kids plan to go pre-med, but do not get there because STEM does not come easy to them. There's no reason to fight your own strengths. Why not encourage your child to try another area where your child may naturally be stronger?

Weed out at DC’s state flagship is huge, losing half premed wannabe after the first year. Losing half of the remaining again after OChem

My son goes to a southern state flagship and it is very sad to see all the posts from kids who were in the top of their class at some grade inflated high school in a small town and thought they would be a doctor. But then have trouble with even the basic core classes and have to drop out. No one is doing these kids a service.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes - the college has peer tutoring. He has tried that but it's hit and miss. Will tell him to keep trying and also considering an outside tutor for a boost of confidence.

OP as one who had a DS in the same situation last year- right down to the rigorous private and the doing OK in calculus 1- I will add this.

Your support for an outside tutor is great. Tell him you will pay for it so he has no excuse. But do not under any circumstances let him whine too much about this and do not let him drop the class. Unless you want to teach him to turn tail the minute things get “hard” in life.

I’m not sure it’s that simple. Calc 2 is really difficult for a lot of kids. If gos professor isn’t a good fit that will exacerbate the issue. He may need to commit to putting a ton of time into this class - daily like several hours. My DS’ school has open tutoring times with the TAs for calc 2. He needs to go regularly, he needs a study group and he needs a high quality tutor.

And with all that he may still not do fabulously. These classes are called weeder classes for a reason and the reason a lot of people drop pre-med. there’s no shame in switching gears if you realize you don’t have the acumen to excel on these classes and it also takes a lot of maturity and self discipline for a young college student who may not be a natural with this material to put in the kind of hours of study and outside efforts they would need to do to be successful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is what people mean when they talk about kids being weeded out of pre-med classes. Tons of kids plan to go pre-med, but do not get there because STEM does not come easy to them. There's no reason to fight your own strengths. Why not encourage your child to try another area where your child may naturally be stronger?

Weed out at DC’s state flagship is huge, losing half premed wannabe after the first year. Losing half of the remaining again after OChem

There's nothing wrong with pivoting from premed to something else. I did the same thing when I got a B- in Gen Chem. I changed to poli sci major, got into a good law school, became a lawyer and all is fine.

However, someone who struggles in STEM and stays premed for too long ends up basically ruining their GPA and also isn't going to want to become a PA, RN or DO. Heck, most of them probably didn't even want to become family docs but were hoping to become a specialist. So, what other good career options are available for someone who gets weeded out?

They can pivot and get into a masters in nutrition or science-adjacent. or into pharmaceutical sales(most of my T10 weeded out friends did the latter)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While a college might accept high school AP classes, I doubt a medical school (who has specific course requirements) will accept a high school O Chem class. My DS is an attending physician and community college classes were not accepted. Again, I am not talking about an English class, but the required courses needed to apply to med school.

No. O chem is NOT accepted by med school. Not even gen chem. You can’t use AP courses in lieu of college gen chem or ochem. However, AP Cal BC (not AB) score 5 is accepted, you just need to take statistics for math in college.

I think AP physics score 5 is also accepted but not sure.

some schools, even ivy-level, allow skipping genchem and going straight into Ochem as freshman. They most certainly can be doctors. Med schools like to see upper level science after orgo including biochem and more. It is not a problem to use AP credit for genchem IF the college allows. These are feeders to med school that allow it. They know how to advise correctly in this situation. -Doc who skipped genchem entirely, went to a T5 med school, and has a kid who skipped one semester(how their school works with a 5 on AP chem).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes - the college has peer tutoring. He has tried that but it's hit and miss. Will tell him to keep trying and also considering an outside tutor for a boost of confidence.

OP as one who had a DS in the same situation last year- right down to the rigorous private and the doing OK in calculus 1- I will add this.

Your support for an outside tutor is great. Tell him you will pay for it so he has no excuse. But do not under any circumstances let him whine too much about this and do not let him drop the class. Unless you want to teach him to turn tail the minute things get “hard” in life.

I’m not sure it’s that simple. Calc 2 is really difficult for a lot of kids. If gos professor isn’t a good fit that will exacerbate the issue. He may need to commit to putting a ton of time into this class - daily like several hours. My DS’ school has open tutoring times with the TAs for calc 2. He needs to go regularly, he needs a study group and he needs a high quality tutor.

And with all that he may still not do fabulously. These classes are called weeder classes for a reason and the reason a lot of people drop pre-med. there’s no shame in switching gears if you realize you don’t have the acumen to excel on these classes and it also takes a lot of maturity and self discipline for a young college student who may not be a natural with this material to put in the kind of hours of study and outside efforts they would need to do to be successful.

it is really easy or at least fairly easy for the vast majority who become doctors. That is the issue here. OP's kid appears to be not on the track that is most likely to end up in med school. It could happen, but the odds are currently stacking against.

[Anonymous]

My experience with Calc 2 is that it went from “study the night before the test and get an A” (as had been the case in all prior math classes) to “first D ever” in the span of about 3 weeks. Like hitting a brick wall. He may just be reaching a level of math that requires much more work from him than what has gone before and needs to adjust.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He needs to do daily drills. A lot of drills. To many smart people, Calculus is not intuitive and straightforward like precalc. Unless you are a natural, he needs to practice, practice, practice.

Get him a really good tutor to support him.

Precalculus is only "intuitive and straightforward" when the rigorous material is skipped and deferred to calculus class, where the course assumes it was already learned during precalc.

My kid had a hard time in precalc, but did just fine through calc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes - the college has peer tutoring. He has tried that but it's hit and miss. Will tell him to keep trying and also considering an outside tutor for a boost of confidence.

OP as one who had a DS in the same situation last year- right down to the rigorous private and the doing OK in calculus 1- I will add this.

Your support for an outside tutor is great. Tell him you will pay for it so he has no excuse. But do not under any circumstances let him whine too much about this and do not let him drop the class. Unless you want to teach him to turn tail the minute things get “hard” in life.

I’m not sure it’s that simple. Calc 2 is really difficult for a lot of kids. If gos professor isn’t a good fit that will exacerbate the issue. He may need to commit to putting a ton of time into this class - daily like several hours. My DS’ school has open tutoring times with the TAs for calc 2. He needs to go regularly, he needs a study group and he needs a high quality tutor.

And with all that he may still not do fabulously. These classes are called weeder classes for a reason and the reason a lot of people drop pre-med. there’s no shame in switching gears if you realize you don’t have the acumen to excel on these classes and it also takes a lot of maturity and self discipline for a young college student who may not be a natural with this material to put in the kind of hours of study and outside efforts they would need to do to be successful.

it is really easy or at least fairly easy for the vast majority who become doctors. That is the issue here. OP's kid appears to be not on the track that is most likely to end up in med school. It could happen, but the odds are currently stacking against.

Disagree. It’s hard for most, even those that become doctors. Get a tutor and be persistent in working problems and seeking out help whenever you run into something you can’t work out. That’s the only way forward with a good grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes - the college has peer tutoring. He has tried that but it's hit and miss. Will tell him to keep trying and also considering an outside tutor for a boost of confidence.

OP as one who had a DS in the same situation last year- right down to the rigorous private and the doing OK in calculus 1- I will add this.

Your support for an outside tutor is great. Tell him you will pay for it so he has no excuse. But do not under any circumstances let him whine too much about this and do not let him drop the class. Unless you want to teach him to turn tail the minute things get “hard” in life.

I’m not sure it’s that simple. Calc 2 is really difficult for a lot of kids. If gos professor isn’t a good fit that will exacerbate the issue. He may need to commit to putting a ton of time into this class - daily like several hours. My DS’ school has open tutoring times with the TAs for calc 2. He needs to go regularly, he needs a study group and he needs a high quality tutor.

And with all that he may still not do fabulously. These classes are called weeder classes for a reason and the reason a lot of people drop pre-med. there’s no shame in switching gears if you realize you don’t have the acumen to excel on these classes and it also takes a lot of maturity and self discipline for a young college student who may not be a natural with this material to put in the kind of hours of study and outside efforts they would need to do to be successful.

it is really easy or at least fairly easy for the vast majority who become doctors. That is the issue here. OP's kid appears to be not on the track that is most likely to end up in med school. It could happen, but the odds are currently stacking against.

Did you do a survey on all the doctors? Did vast majority tell you they breeze through Calc without putting in a lot of work? without adjusting math study habit?