NVSL and sportsmanship

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Good swimmers get their hand on the wall first. Whether they are in lane 5 or lane 10. Whether they are in the fast heat or the slow heat. A fast pool or a slow pool. Sick or feeling like 100 bucks.

it's the swimmer, not the lane.
it's the pilot, not the plane.
it's the driver, not the car.
It's DCUM, not the poster

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:A team put some of their fastest All-Star level swimmers in lane one, but then still had them in relays for the strokes where they had "no time"

I've never understood swimming's obsession with what lane someone is swimming in.

Um. This isn't a swimming thing. F1, track, etc.

Position matters for racing.

In this case, lane position did NOT matter for the opposing team that was complaining. The disadvantage was for the “all star” swimmer in an outside lane. The opposing team swimmer in the middle lane should have swum his fastest regardless of who was swimming where.

The advantage of the middle lanes in swimming is that the water is less turbulent to swim through. Swimmers in outside lanes have more waves to contend with from bouncing off walls and other swimmers.

Some swimmers race the pool, not the clock. Those swimmers are hugely disadvantaged if the actual competition is four lanes away.

Ok, the swimmer must not do club swim. Those meets can be seeded all over the place.

That said, I wouldn’t say it was “unsportsmanlike”. Our pool has a policy where previous years times are not used and NT would have been entered if the swimmer missed time trials. Nothing nefarious or unsportsmanlike. The swimmer that was disadvantaged was the kid in the outside lane.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A team put some of their fastest All-Star level swimmers in lane one, but then still had them in relays for the strokes where they had "no time"

I've never understood swimming's obsession with what lane someone is swimming in.

Um. This isn't a swimming thing. F1, track, etc.

Position matters for racing.

In this case, lane position did NOT matter for the opposing team that was complaining. The disadvantage was for the “all star” swimmer in an outside lane. The opposing team swimmer in the middle lane should have swum his fastest regardless of who was swimming where.

The advantage of the middle lanes in swimming is that the water is less turbulent to swim through. Swimmers in outside lanes have more waves to contend with from bouncing off walls and other swimmers.

Some swimmers race the pool, not the clock. Those swimmers are hugely disadvantaged if the actual competition is four lanes away.

Ok, the swimmer must not do club swim. Those meets can be seeded all over the place.

That said, I wouldn’t say it was “unsportsmanlike”. Our pool has a policy where previous years times are not used and NT would have been entered if the swimmer missed time trials. Nothing nefarious or unsportsmanlike. The swimmer that was disadvantaged was the kid in the outside lane.

Putting swimmers in a relay who have NT over swimmers with recorded times is unsportsmanlike. "Knowing" that a swimmer is faster, so should be on a relay, but then not putting last year's times in the system to have correct seeding is too. And this was multiple swimmers over multiple events, not just one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A team put some of their fastest All-Star level swimmers in lane one, but then still had them in relays for the strokes where they had "no time"

I've never understood swimming's obsession with what lane someone is swimming in.

Um. This isn't a swimming thing. F1, track, etc.

Position matters for racing.

In this case, lane position did NOT matter for the opposing team that was complaining. The disadvantage was for the “all star” swimmer in an outside lane. The opposing team swimmer in the middle lane should have swum his fastest regardless of who was swimming where.

The advantage of the middle lanes in swimming is that the water is less turbulent to swim through. Swimmers in outside lanes have more waves to contend with from bouncing off walls and other swimmers.

Some swimmers race the pool, not the clock. Those swimmers are hugely disadvantaged if the actual competition is four lanes away.

Ok, the swimmer must not do club swim. Those meets can be seeded all over the place.

That said, I wouldn’t say it was “unsportsmanlike”. Our pool has a policy where previous years times are not used and NT would have been entered if the swimmer missed time trials. Nothing nefarious or unsportsmanlike. The swimmer that was disadvantaged was the kid in the outside lane.

Putting swimmers in a relay who have NT over swimmers with recorded times is unsportsmanlike. "Knowing" that a swimmer is faster, so should be on a relay, but then not putting last year's times in the system to have correct seeding is too. And this was multiple swimmers over multiple events, not just one.

NT is not unsportsmanlike. It means no official time. The swimmer they entered had no time - were you able to find a time on MyNVSL for this swimmer in 2025? My guess is no. Thus, the swimmers were seeded in the outside lane.

As the opposing team, you should assume the NT swimmer can be faster and if you really wanted to do your homework you could have looked up times from 2024 to get a sense for how fast or slow the NT swimmer is.

The only possible infraction may possibly have been to the team member who was displaced on the relay team. However, we don’t know the circumstances- maybe the team had a swim off for relay slot at a practice? Frankly it doesn’t really matter. The team is legitimately able to plane a NT swimmer in a relay.

As the opposing team, you’re whining about this as being an unsportsmanlike is really sounding more and more like sour grapes that your team didn’t win. I assure you there’s nothing unsportsmanlike about an NT swimmer being fast and an NT swimmer being in a relay.

And since this happened multiple times in the same meet, my guess is the swimmers couldn’t make time trials and the team didn’t have make up time trials to get official 2025 times.

[Anonymous]

What do the crazy intense dads do? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a crazy dad at a club meet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What do the crazy intense dads do? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a crazy dad at a club meet.

Oof, there’s a couple that get aggressive from the stands. It usually leads to a DCUM thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What do the crazy intense dads do? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a crazy dad at a club meet.

They scream, almost always for sons rather than daughters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do the crazy intense dads do? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a crazy dad at a club meet.

They scream, almost always for sons rather than daughters.

PP mentioned an intense dad and his daughter at club & summer meets. I wonder what that entails.

[Anonymous]

As a former team rep, I always notified the opposing team when we had a fast NT swimmer in an outside lane, just so there was no misunderstanding or hurt feelings.

[Anonymous]

Our swim team doesn't let kids without times in A meets. How does that not cause hard feelings with the kid on the ladder with a time who should have had that spot?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our swim team doesn't let kids without times in A meets. How does that not cause hard feelings with the kid on the ladder with a time who should have had that spot?

If the kid on the ladder was faster than the kid winning from the outside lane, the kid on the ladder was not faster than the kid on the outside lane.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our swim team doesn't let kids without times in A meets. How does that not cause hard feelings with the kid on the ladder with a time who should have had that spot?

Nobody has an official time for the first A meet. We’ve had instances where a swimmer with NT is known to be faster and swims in place of some with a time.

What would you do if you needed someone with NT to fill a lane? Not let them swim? At times had to beg non-swim team club members to swim. They obviously wouldn’t have times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our swim team doesn't let kids without times in A meets. How does that not cause hard feelings with the kid on the ladder with a time who should have had that spot?

Nobody has an official time for the first A meet. We’ve had instances where a swimmer with NT is known to be faster and swims in place of some with a time.

What would you do if you needed someone with NT to fill a lane? Not let them swim? At times had to beg non-swim team club members to swim. They obviously wouldn’t have times.

Isn't that why every team does time trials? If a kid doesn't swim in time trials, he doesn't have a time he can use to get into an A meet until he swims it in a B meet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our swim team doesn't let kids without times in A meets. How does that not cause hard feelings with the kid on the ladder with a time who should have had that spot?

Nobody has an official time for the first A meet. We’ve had instances where a swimmer with NT is known to be faster and swims in place of some with a time.

What would you do if you needed someone with NT to fill a lane? Not let them swim? At times had to beg non-swim team club members to swim. They obviously wouldn’t have times.

Isn't that why every team does time trials? If a kid doesn't swim in time trials, he doesn't have a time he can use to get into an A meet until he swims it in a B meet.

Only A meet times from this year count as having a time for NVSL rules purposes. But there are lots of ways to figure out who is faster: time trials, b meets, race offs, last years times, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our swim team doesn't let kids without times in A meets. How does that not cause hard feelings with the kid on the ladder with a time who should have had that spot?

Nobody has an official time for the first A meet. We’ve had instances where a swimmer with NT is known to be faster and swims in place of some with a time.

What would you do if you needed someone with NT to fill a lane? Not let them swim? At times had to beg non-swim team club members to swim. They obviously wouldn’t have times.

Isn't that why every team does time trials? If a kid doesn't swim in time trials, he doesn't have a time he can use to get into an A meet until he swims it in a B meet.

Only A meet times from this year count as having a time for NVSL rules purposes. But there are lots of ways to figure out who is faster: time trials, b meets, race offs, last years times, etc.

I can't tell if you are being dense on purpose? I am a NP. Time trials and B meets are a fair and transparent way to give everyone the opportunity to qualify for an A meet. All the other suggestions are favoritism for some swimmers, who yes may be faster.