Moco thoughts

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Based on our experience, not doing the fall training with MOCO reduces your chances of making a team. Participation in the fall training might show some sort of commitment to the club. But that's not all: they get to know the players during the fall training program and they give the participants additional rope. We know one player who was offered a spot on a MOCO team, even though she could not show up at the tryouts (because of an injury). The offer was based entirely on her participation at the fall training.

That's just not fair.

Not sure if the injured player had played for MOCO in a prior season, but picking teams is a difficult balancing act for the clubs. Most clubs generally have some loyalty to players who played for them in the prior season and that makes sense. Starting the season with a core group that has played together before is definitely an advantage. But it’s also a good idea to add new players to the team, hopefully to help the overall team improve. But that can lead to situations where players who played for a club for one or more seasons don’t get offers which is a difficult thing to do.

The important thing for parents and prospective players to know that every season is not empty roster that is picked solely on how a player performs at tryouts. Returners, players a club has gotten to know through clinics or high school volleyball, and other factors are all as important (if not more) than what happens at tryouts. So have a few options for potential clubs and make an effort to have your DD get to know those clubs (and vice versa) before tryouts.

The thing the bolded part of your statement leaves out that is probably the MOST determinative of who ends up on the team after tryouts is that if girls who the coaches have never laid eyes on ever in their lives show up at tryouts and slay the tryouts - like truly stand out as really good or great - there are very few teams that will say no to those players just to keep familiar alumni players on the team. MOCO is one of many clubs who, if you go back through the last couple of years of post-tryout reports/complaints from parents, you'll see several posts of parents having been told their girl was definitely going to be put on X team, but then tryouts come and go and they get no offer, or they get an offer for a lower tier team in the club like a Rec team. You show up super well at tryouts, most clubs will fill the roster with whoever they think shined brightest and usually only really hold spots for their tried and true superstars.

While it is true that a player completely unknown to a club can sometimes show up to a tryout and impress so much that they get an offer, I think it is a stretch to suggest that this is frequent or the norm, at least for age groups above 14 or so. Club volleyball is a pretty small world and many coaches/clubs have a pretty good sense of who the talented players are in each age group. For younger players, the scenario described is probably more likely since the players have not been seen as much (or at all if they are totally new).

While I would not go so far as to say that teams are already selected prior to tryouts, our experience has been that most coaches know who they are going to make offers to for 75% or more of the roster spots on a given team by tryouts. Of course players have options too and every player a coach thinks is going to be on their team won't accept the offer which does lead to some shuffling during the tryout period.

I think it would be a risky strategy to just show up at tryouts thinking that your DD will be so impressive that they will get an offer. It might happen, but I don't think it should be Plan A.

I totally agree that no way should showing up unknown and thinking you'll wow them and get an offer be "Plan A" - I never said anything like that. You missed my main point which is that for those unknown or playing for the first time, the advice of only going to one tryout a day is terrible because your ODDS of getting any offer at all (as distant as those odds may already be) your odds get worse right away when you show up somewhere else on Day 2. It's not impossible - you may be good for someone a team thought they'd definitely get and then they accept somewhere else so they're down a ______________ position player and you look pretty decent for it. That does happen.

But everyone trying out has their best shot on the first day a particular club has tryouts. Again, my 3 daughters got almost all of their offers (and some to quality teams with the most competition) on Day 1, so I don't suggest anyone wait if possible and do you're 2-3 most desired teams on Day 1 of tryouts. (And we know people who've done 4 in one day, but that really is too much for most of us.)

That was not our experience. My DD prioritized her reach clubs early during the tryouts and that never worked. She got offers from the more desperate clubs during the last days of tryouts. When she figured out that Friday, Saturday, and Sunday tryouts were not very successful, she showed up at make-up tryouts of less competitive clubs and she got multiple offers (both on Monday and on Tuesday). But I agree that trying out at a mediocre club in the first day of tryouts will likely result in an offer. I just offered a different experience to show that going around and offering advice as if your experience is the most representative of them all is not ideal. People can experience life differently than you do.

Ummm... there is "having a different experience", and there is "you do not understand my point yet again". How your DD or my DD got on a team can absolutely vary. But you seem to still not get (or not want to admit) that for Club teams, it's basically just a simple fact that anyone trying to get on a decent all the way to great team, has their best shot at joining that team on the 1st day of that team's tryouts. This isn't a "your experience is different than mine" thing, it's a math/tryout odds" thing. Regardless of whether the team goes into tryouts already mostly knowing the roster or it really is open and whoever shows up best on the tryout courts gets offers first, either way, the first day is the day there is mostly likely to still be wiggle room in the roster. Yes, your kid then has to show up and look as kick-ass as possible in their skills, which is hard for a majority especially if the tryout is packed. But I'm not sure what you're saying is a different experience: when your DD went on 1st day for her "reach" teams and it didn't work out, that doesn't change that she was even LESS likely to find a spot on any of those reach teams in the later days. Only when reach team realizes, after the "offer acceptance dust" settles, that they are missing a player or 2 for specific positions, then they may have make ups or another round just for those positions. Again, you'd want to be in the first batch of tryouts for that too because once they find someone they can work with and make that offer, you might be a little better but the spot is filled if you're later.

Your DD's experience getting offers later from desperate clubs and at make up tryouts is a common experience as well. Doesn't change that for popular clubs, the first day has the most opportunity even if it's only the tinyest sliver of an opportunity.

I think you might be right for extremely talented players - clubs want them and are willing to make offers after the first day of tryouts. Regular players are likely offered a position on a second team or kept on the list as alternate. The top clubs will want to see all the players who show up before they make offers. Look at MVSA and MOCO, who simply weed out the bottom players during the first day of tryouts without making any offers. Again, you are trying to present your experience as the only relevant experience and your opinion as the only valid opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Based on our experience, not doing the fall training with MOCO reduces your chances of making a team. Participation in the fall training might show some sort of commitment to the club. But that's not all: they get to know the players during the fall training program and they give the participants additional rope. We know one player who was offered a spot on a MOCO team, even though she could not show up at the tryouts (because of an injury). The offer was based entirely on her participation at the fall training.

That's just not fair.

Not sure if the injured player had played for MOCO in a prior season, but picking teams is a difficult balancing act for the clubs. Most clubs generally have some loyalty to players who played for them in the prior season and that makes sense. Starting the season with a core group that has played together before is definitely an advantage. But it’s also a good idea to add new players to the team, hopefully to help the overall team improve. But that can lead to situations where players who played for a club for one or more seasons don’t get offers which is a difficult thing to do.

The important thing for parents and prospective players to know that every season is not empty roster that is picked solely on how a player performs at tryouts. Returners, players a club has gotten to know through clinics or high school volleyball, and other factors are all as important (if not more) than what happens at tryouts. So have a few options for potential clubs and make an effort to have your DD get to know those clubs (and vice versa) before tryouts.

The thing the bolded part of your statement leaves out that is probably the MOST determinative of who ends up on the team after tryouts is that if girls who the coaches have never laid eyes on ever in their lives show up at tryouts and slay the tryouts - like truly stand out as really good or great - there are very few teams that will say no to those players just to keep familiar alumni players on the team. MOCO is one of many clubs who, if you go back through the last couple of years of post-tryout reports/complaints from parents, you'll see several posts of parents having been told their girl was definitely going to be put on X team, but then tryouts come and go and they get no offer, or they get an offer for a lower tier team in the club like a Rec team. You show up super well at tryouts, most clubs will fill the roster with whoever they think shined brightest and usually only really hold spots for their tried and true superstars.

While it is true that a player completely unknown to a club can sometimes show up to a tryout and impress so much that they get an offer, I think it is a stretch to suggest that this is frequent or the norm, at least for age groups above 14 or so. Club volleyball is a pretty small world and many coaches/clubs have a pretty good sense of who the talented players are in each age group. For younger players, the scenario described is probably more likely since the players have not been seen as much (or at all if they are totally new).

While I would not go so far as to say that teams are already selected prior to tryouts, our experience has been that most coaches know who they are going to make offers to for 75% or more of the roster spots on a given team by tryouts. Of course players have options too and every player a coach thinks is going to be on their team won't accept the offer which does lead to some shuffling during the tryout period.

I think it would be a risky strategy to just show up at tryouts thinking that your DD will be so impressive that they will get an offer. It might happen, but I don't think it should be Plan A.

I totally agree that no way should showing up unknown and thinking you'll wow them and get an offer be "Plan A" - I never said anything like that. You missed my main point which is that for those unknown or playing for the first time, the advice of only going to one tryout a day is terrible because your ODDS of getting any offer at all (as distant as those odds may already be) your odds get worse right away when you show up somewhere else on Day 2. It's not impossible - you may be good for someone a team thought they'd definitely get and then they accept somewhere else so they're down a ______________ position player and you look pretty decent for it. That does happen.

But everyone trying out has their best shot on the first day a particular club has tryouts. Again, my 3 daughters got almost all of their offers (and some to quality teams with the most competition) on Day 1, so I don't suggest anyone wait if possible and do you're 2-3 most desired teams on Day 1 of tryouts. (And we know people who've done 4 in one day, but that really is too much for most of us.)

That was not our experience. My DD prioritized her reach clubs early during the tryouts and that never worked. She got offers from the more desperate clubs during the last days of tryouts. When she figured out that Friday, Saturday, and Sunday tryouts were not very successful, she showed up at make-up tryouts of less competitive clubs and she got multiple offers (both on Monday and on Tuesday). But I agree that trying out at a mediocre club in the first day of tryouts will likely result in an offer. I just offered a different experience to show that going around and offering advice as if your experience is the most representative of them all is not ideal. People can experience life differently than you do.

Ummm... there is "having a different experience", and there is "you do not understand my point yet again". How your DD or my DD got on a team can absolutely vary. But you seem to still not get (or not want to admit) that for Club teams, it's basically just a simple fact that anyone trying to get on a decent all the way to great team, has their best shot at joining that team on the 1st day of that team's tryouts. This isn't a "your experience is different than mine" thing, it's a math/tryout odds" thing. Regardless of whether the team goes into tryouts already mostly knowing the roster or it really is open and whoever shows up best on the tryout courts gets offers first, either way, the first day is the day there is mostly likely to still be wiggle room in the roster. Yes, your kid then has to show up and look as kick-ass as possible in their skills, which is hard for a majority especially if the tryout is packed. But I'm not sure what you're saying is a different experience: when your DD went on 1st day for her "reach" teams and it didn't work out, that doesn't change that she was even LESS likely to find a spot on any of those reach teams in the later days. Only when reach team realizes, after the "offer acceptance dust" settles, that they are missing a player or 2 for specific positions, then they may have make ups or another round just for those positions. Again, you'd want to be in the first batch of tryouts for that too because once they find someone they can work with and make that offer, you might be a little better but the spot is filled if you're later.

Your DD's experience getting offers later from desperate clubs and at make up tryouts is a common experience as well. Doesn't change that for popular clubs, the first day has the most opportunity even if it's only the tinyest sliver of an opportunity.

I think you might be right for extremely talented players - clubs want them and are willing to make offers after the first day of tryouts. Regular players are likely offered a position on a second team or kept on the list as alternate. The top clubs will want to see all the players who show up before they make offers. Look at MVSA and MOCO, who simply weed out the bottom players during the first day of tryouts without making any offers. Again, you are trying to present your experience as the only relevant experience and your opinion as the only valid opinion.

In our experience, MVSA does two days with cuts after day one. Both days are required. MOCO makes offers on both Friday and Saturday. Callbacks on Sunday can be either for already offered players being considered for a higher team or for players that are being considered for one of their lower teams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Based on our experience, not doing the fall training with MOCO reduces your chances of making a team. Participation in the fall training might show some sort of commitment to the club. But that's not all: they get to know the players during the fall training program and they give the participants additional rope. We know one player who was offered a spot on a MOCO team, even though she could not show up at the tryouts (because of an injury). The offer was based entirely on her participation at the fall training.

That's just not fair.

Not sure if the injured player had played for MOCO in a prior season, but picking teams is a difficult balancing act for the clubs. Most clubs generally have some loyalty to players who played for them in the prior season and that makes sense. Starting the season with a core group that has played together before is definitely an advantage. But it’s also a good idea to add new players to the team, hopefully to help the overall team improve. But that can lead to situations where players who played for a club for one or more seasons don’t get offers which is a difficult thing to do.

The important thing for parents and prospective players to know that every season is not empty roster that is picked solely on how a player performs at tryouts. Returners, players a club has gotten to know through clinics or high school volleyball, and other factors are all as important (if not more) than what happens at tryouts. So have a few options for potential clubs and make an effort to have your DD get to know those clubs (and vice versa) before tryouts.

The thing the bolded part of your statement leaves out that is probably the MOST determinative of who ends up on the team after tryouts is that if girls who the coaches have never laid eyes on ever in their lives show up at tryouts and slay the tryouts - like truly stand out as really good or great - there are very few teams that will say no to those players just to keep familiar alumni players on the team. MOCO is one of many clubs who, if you go back through the last couple of years of post-tryout reports/complaints from parents, you'll see several posts of parents having been told their girl was definitely going to be put on X team, but then tryouts come and go and they get no offer, or they get an offer for a lower tier team in the club like a Rec team. You show up super well at tryouts, most clubs will fill the roster with whoever they think shined brightest and usually only really hold spots for their tried and true superstars.

While it is true that a player completely unknown to a club can sometimes show up to a tryout and impress so much that they get an offer, I think it is a stretch to suggest that this is frequent or the norm, at least for age groups above 14 or so. Club volleyball is a pretty small world and many coaches/clubs have a pretty good sense of who the talented players are in each age group. For younger players, the scenario described is probably more likely since the players have not been seen as much (or at all if they are totally new).

While I would not go so far as to say that teams are already selected prior to tryouts, our experience has been that most coaches know who they are going to make offers to for 75% or more of the roster spots on a given team by tryouts. Of course players have options too and every player a coach thinks is going to be on their team won't accept the offer which does lead to some shuffling during the tryout period.

I think it would be a risky strategy to just show up at tryouts thinking that your DD will be so impressive that they will get an offer. It might happen, but I don't think it should be Plan A.

I totally agree that no way should showing up unknown and thinking you'll wow them and get an offer be "Plan A" - I never said anything like that. You missed my main point which is that for those unknown or playing for the first time, the advice of only going to one tryout a day is terrible because your ODDS of getting any offer at all (as distant as those odds may already be) your odds get worse right away when you show up somewhere else on Day 2. It's not impossible - you may be good for someone a team thought they'd definitely get and then they accept somewhere else so they're down a ______________ position player and you look pretty decent for it. That does happen.

But everyone trying out has their best shot on the first day a particular club has tryouts. Again, my 3 daughters got almost all of their offers (and some to quality teams with the most competition) on Day 1, so I don't suggest anyone wait if possible and do you're 2-3 most desired teams on Day 1 of tryouts. (And we know people who've done 4 in one day, but that really is too much for most of us.)

That was not our experience. My DD prioritized her reach clubs early during the tryouts and that never worked. She got offers from the more desperate clubs during the last days of tryouts. When she figured out that Friday, Saturday, and Sunday tryouts were not very successful, she showed up at make-up tryouts of less competitive clubs and she got multiple offers (both on Monday and on Tuesday). But I agree that trying out at a mediocre club in the first day of tryouts will likely result in an offer. I just offered a different experience to show that going around and offering advice as if your experience is the most representative of them all is not ideal. People can experience life differently than you do.

Ummm... there is "having a different experience", and there is "you do not understand my point yet again". How your DD or my DD got on a team can absolutely vary. But you seem to still not get (or not want to admit) that for Club teams, it's basically just a simple fact that anyone trying to get on a decent all the way to great team, has their best shot at joining that team on the 1st day of that team's tryouts. This isn't a "your experience is different than mine" thing, it's a math/tryout odds" thing. Regardless of whether the team goes into tryouts already mostly knowing the roster or it really is open and whoever shows up best on the tryout courts gets offers first, either way, the first day is the day there is mostly likely to still be wiggle room in the roster. Yes, your kid then has to show up and look as kick-ass as possible in their skills, which is hard for a majority especially if the tryout is packed. But I'm not sure what you're saying is a different experience: when your DD went on 1st day for her "reach" teams and it didn't work out, that doesn't change that she was even LESS likely to find a spot on any of those reach teams in the later days. Only when reach team realizes, after the "offer acceptance dust" settles, that they are missing a player or 2 for specific positions, then they may have make ups or another round just for those positions. Again, you'd want to be in the first batch of tryouts for that too because once they find someone they can work with and make that offer, you might be a little better but the spot is filled if you're later.

Your DD's experience getting offers later from desperate clubs and at make up tryouts is a common experience as well. Doesn't change that for popular clubs, the first day has the most opportunity even if it's only the tinyest sliver of an opportunity.

I think you might be right for extremely talented players - clubs want them and are willing to make offers after the first day of tryouts. Regular players are likely offered a position on a second team or kept on the list as alternate. The top clubs will want to see all the players who show up before they make offers. Look at MVSA and MOCO, who simply weed out the bottom players during the first day of tryouts without making any offers. Again, you are trying to present your experience as the only relevant experience and your opinion as the only valid opinion.

One of my DD's in particular was in now way a stellar player when she first tried out for MOCO for the U14s, after playing the year before at a very mediocre club that accepted lots of newbies. Nor was she so dramatically better when she tried out for U15s Metro Clubs (not travel) the next season. Nor is she tall. She's got some hustle, but she is truly not a superstar. And yet she still got offers on the first day from MOCO and later both Metro clubs she tried out for U15s for.

So first of all let's correct your whole misinformation (because it's not about "my experience being the only experience"; it's about you actually saying things that are false as statements of fact, like that MOCO "only clears out the bottom players first day but makes no offer first day, then starts making offers on Day 2". At least 5 players on DD's team that first year playing for MOCO got their offers that first day, 3 on the spot (including DD). Now she's a lot better and we were less surprised that she got 1st day offers when she did for U16s & U17s at even better clubs/teams. And she got an offer from MOCO to be on their travel team that 2nd year but turned it down for a better regional team, and ended up playing MOCO travel anyway because they boost their results by playing an awful lot of regional tournaments against club teams instead of travel teams who'd cream them.

That DD is in college now, but we have another DD who's been playing since U13s, now going into U15s tryouts, and nothing has changed in our experience or that of other families we've gotten to know well where players who are NOT obvious hotshots, not super tall, and were not known to MOCO beforehand were made offers on the first day to MOCO teams. MVSA is a way better club overall, so you do have to be more of a hotshot to stand out, but again, if they're really missing a position someone like my DD still stands a better possibility (tiny as it may be but it's possible) on Day 1. Way less so on Day 2 when that "maybe" spot already got filled by someone else on Day 1.

You can keep avoiding the fact that Day 1 is the day with the most truly open slots on any given team (either actual open slots or slots that turn out to be open because a player that team was sure would say yes gets an offer from a better team and jumps ship so now it's open), but no amount of "your experience isn't everyone's experience" changes whether any given player has their best shot on Day 1. And nothing I'm saying means a majority of those trying out will get offers. It's always slim chances for most, but they get even more slim after Day 1.

If you show up on Day 2 and play just as well, and even maybe look a little better because most of the serious players tried out on Day 1, you're still competing for what's left of open slots on the roster and that same team is likely to make more offers to other Day 1 players after seeing Day 2 and knowing who has already rejected them. And whenever the deadline for acceptances is, the whole musical chairs frenzy of filling those last spots still usually (but not always) favors players who stood out early on, especially if they go back for special position tryouts if those happen.

What this all means for any one player's chances is a combo of lots of factors, including luck, but it is true as a general rule, not just "my experience".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Based on our experience, not doing the fall training with MOCO reduces your chances of making a team. Participation in the fall training might show some sort of commitment to the club. But that's not all: they get to know the players during the fall training program and they give the participants additional rope. We know one player who was offered a spot on a MOCO team, even though she could not show up at the tryouts (because of an injury). The offer was based entirely on her participation at the fall training.

That's just not fair.

Not sure if the injured player had played for MOCO in a prior season, but picking teams is a difficult balancing act for the clubs. Most clubs generally have some loyalty to players who played for them in the prior season and that makes sense. Starting the season with a core group that has played together before is definitely an advantage. But it’s also a good idea to add new players to the team, hopefully to help the overall team improve. But that can lead to situations where players who played for a club for one or more seasons don’t get offers which is a difficult thing to do.

The important thing for parents and prospective players to know that every season is not empty roster that is picked solely on how a player performs at tryouts. Returners, players a club has gotten to know through clinics or high school volleyball, and other factors are all as important (if not more) than what happens at tryouts. So have a few options for potential clubs and make an effort to have your DD get to know those clubs (and vice versa) before tryouts.

The thing the bolded part of your statement leaves out that is probably the MOST determinative of who ends up on the team after tryouts is that if girls who the coaches have never laid eyes on ever in their lives show up at tryouts and slay the tryouts - like truly stand out as really good or great - there are very few teams that will say no to those players just to keep familiar alumni players on the team. MOCO is one of many clubs who, if you go back through the last couple of years of post-tryout reports/complaints from parents, you'll see several posts of parents having been told their girl was definitely going to be put on X team, but then tryouts come and go and they get no offer, or they get an offer for a lower tier team in the club like a Rec team. You show up super well at tryouts, most clubs will fill the roster with whoever they think shined brightest and usually only really hold spots for their tried and true superstars.

While it is true that a player completely unknown to a club can sometimes show up to a tryout and impress so much that they get an offer, I think it is a stretch to suggest that this is frequent or the norm, at least for age groups above 14 or so. Club volleyball is a pretty small world and many coaches/clubs have a pretty good sense of who the talented players are in each age group. For younger players, the scenario described is probably more likely since the players have not been seen as much (or at all if they are totally new).

While I would not go so far as to say that teams are already selected prior to tryouts, our experience has been that most coaches know who they are going to make offers to for 75% or more of the roster spots on a given team by tryouts. Of course players have options too and every player a coach thinks is going to be on their team won't accept the offer which does lead to some shuffling during the tryout period.

I think it would be a risky strategy to just show up at tryouts thinking that your DD will be so impressive that they will get an offer. It might happen, but I don't think it should be Plan A.

I totally agree that no way should showing up unknown and thinking you'll wow them and get an offer be "Plan A" - I never said anything like that. You missed my main point which is that for those unknown or playing for the first time, the advice of only going to one tryout a day is terrible because your ODDS of getting any offer at all (as distant as those odds may already be) your odds get worse right away when you show up somewhere else on Day 2. It's not impossible - you may be good for someone a team thought they'd definitely get and then they accept somewhere else so they're down a ______________ position player and you look pretty decent for it. That does happen.

But everyone trying out has their best shot on the first day a particular club has tryouts. Again, my 3 daughters got almost all of their offers (and some to quality teams with the most competition) on Day 1, so I don't suggest anyone wait if possible and do you're 2-3 most desired teams on Day 1 of tryouts. (And we know people who've done 4 in one day, but that really is too much for most of us.)

That was not our experience. My DD prioritized her reach clubs early during the tryouts and that never worked. She got offers from the more desperate clubs during the last days of tryouts. When she figured out that Friday, Saturday, and Sunday tryouts were not very successful, she showed up at make-up tryouts of less competitive clubs and she got multiple offers (both on Monday and on Tuesday). But I agree that trying out at a mediocre club in the first day of tryouts will likely result in an offer. I just offered a different experience to show that going around and offering advice as if your experience is the most representative of them all is not ideal. People can experience life differently than you do.

Ummm... there is "having a different experience", and there is "you do not understand my point yet again". How your DD or my DD got on a team can absolutely vary. But you seem to still not get (or not want to admit) that for Club teams, it's basically just a simple fact that anyone trying to get on a decent all the way to great team, has their best shot at joining that team on the 1st day of that team's tryouts. This isn't a "your experience is different than mine" thing, it's a math/tryout odds" thing. Regardless of whether the team goes into tryouts already mostly knowing the roster or it really is open and whoever shows up best on the tryout courts gets offers first, either way, the first day is the day there is mostly likely to still be wiggle room in the roster. Yes, your kid then has to show up and look as kick-ass as possible in their skills, which is hard for a majority especially if the tryout is packed. But I'm not sure what you're saying is a different experience: when your DD went on 1st day for her "reach" teams and it didn't work out, that doesn't change that she was even LESS likely to find a spot on any of those reach teams in the later days. Only when reach team realizes, after the "offer acceptance dust" settles, that they are missing a player or 2 for specific positions, then they may have make ups or another round just for those positions. Again, you'd want to be in the first batch of tryouts for that too because once they find someone they can work with and make that offer, you might be a little better but the spot is filled if you're later.

Your DD's experience getting offers later from desperate clubs and at make up tryouts is a common experience as well. Doesn't change that for popular clubs, the first day has the most opportunity even if it's only the tinyest sliver of an opportunity.

I think you might be right for extremely talented players - clubs want them and are willing to make offers after the first day of tryouts. Regular players are likely offered a position on a second team or kept on the list as alternate. The top clubs will want to see all the players who show up before they make offers. Look at MVSA and MOCO, who simply weed out the bottom players during the first day of tryouts without making any offers. Again, you are trying to present your experience as the only relevant experience and your opinion as the only valid opinion.

In our experience, MVSA does two days with cuts after day one. Both days are required. MOCO makes offers on both Friday and Saturday. Callbacks on Sunday can be either for already offered players being considered for a higher team or for players that are being considered for one of their lower teams.

I'm the long-winded PP (yes, I can own that!), and yes, that makes sense and is consistent with what we've seen for years now on both teams. That's partly why MVSA's teams usually end up being so strong - overall better players try out and they are very thorough in how they assess and choose.

[Anonymous]

Me again ^^ and I also own that I should have said clearly that I don't actually know people getting first day MVSA offers - our experience in terms of this convo was directly with MOCO and a lot of other teams in the area. But the MVSA players we know, who are very very good, I can't say any of them told us they got offers first day. MOCO is different, plenty across age groups got first day (and several on the spot) offers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Based on our experience, not doing the fall training with MOCO reduces your chances of making a team. Participation in the fall training might show some sort of commitment to the club. But that's not all: they get to know the players during the fall training program and they give the participants additional rope. We know one player who was offered a spot on a MOCO team, even though she could not show up at the tryouts (because of an injury). The offer was based entirely on her participation at the fall training.

That's just not fair.

Not sure if the injured player had played for MOCO in a prior season, but picking teams is a difficult balancing act for the clubs. Most clubs generally have some loyalty to players who played for them in the prior season and that makes sense. Starting the season with a core group that has played together before is definitely an advantage. But it’s also a good idea to add new players to the team, hopefully to help the overall team improve. But that can lead to situations where players who played for a club for one or more seasons don’t get offers which is a difficult thing to do.

The important thing for parents and prospective players to know that every season is not empty roster that is picked solely on how a player performs at tryouts. Returners, players a club has gotten to know through clinics or high school volleyball, and other factors are all as important (if not more) than what happens at tryouts. So have a few options for potential clubs and make an effort to have your DD get to know those clubs (and vice versa) before tryouts.

The thing the bolded part of your statement leaves out that is probably the MOST determinative of who ends up on the team after tryouts is that if girls who the coaches have never laid eyes on ever in their lives show up at tryouts and slay the tryouts - like truly stand out as really good or great - there are very few teams that will say no to those players just to keep familiar alumni players on the team. MOCO is one of many clubs who, if you go back through the last couple of years of post-tryout reports/complaints from parents, you'll see several posts of parents having been told their girl was definitely going to be put on X team, but then tryouts come and go and they get no offer, or they get an offer for a lower tier team in the club like a Rec team. You show up super well at tryouts, most clubs will fill the roster with whoever they think shined brightest and usually only really hold spots for their tried and true superstars.

While it is true that a player completely unknown to a club can sometimes show up to a tryout and impress so much that they get an offer, I think it is a stretch to suggest that this is frequent or the norm, at least for age groups above 14 or so. Club volleyball is a pretty small world and many coaches/clubs have a pretty good sense of who the talented players are in each age group. For younger players, the scenario described is probably more likely since the players have not been seen as much (or at all if they are totally new).

While I would not go so far as to say that teams are already selected prior to tryouts, our experience has been that most coaches know who they are going to make offers to for 75% or more of the roster spots on a given team by tryouts. Of course players have options too and every player a coach thinks is going to be on their team won't accept the offer which does lead to some shuffling during the tryout period.

I think it would be a risky strategy to just show up at tryouts thinking that your DD will be so impressive that they will get an offer. It might happen, but I don't think it should be Plan A.

I totally agree that no way should showing up unknown and thinking you'll wow them and get an offer be "Plan A" - I never said anything like that. You missed my main point which is that for those unknown or playing for the first time, the advice of only going to one tryout a day is terrible because your ODDS of getting any offer at all (as distant as those odds may already be) your odds get worse right away when you show up somewhere else on Day 2. It's not impossible - you may be good for someone a team thought they'd definitely get and then they accept somewhere else so they're down a ______________ position player and you look pretty decent for it. That does happen.

But everyone trying out has their best shot on the first day a particular club has tryouts. Again, my 3 daughters got almost all of their offers (and some to quality teams with the most competition) on Day 1, so I don't suggest anyone wait if possible and do you're 2-3 most desired teams on Day 1 of tryouts. (And we know people who've done 4 in one day, but that really is too much for most of us.)

That was not our experience. My DD prioritized her reach clubs early during the tryouts and that never worked. She got offers from the more desperate clubs during the last days of tryouts. When she figured out that Friday, Saturday, and Sunday tryouts were not very successful, she showed up at make-up tryouts of less competitive clubs and she got multiple offers (both on Monday and on Tuesday). But I agree that trying out at a mediocre club in the first day of tryouts will likely result in an offer. I just offered a different experience to show that going around and offering advice as if your experience is the most representative of them all is not ideal. People can experience life differently than you do.

By the way PP, what's really funny is, the experience you shared in this post isn't even in conflict with what I've been saying over and over again. If you go to your most hoped-for clubs on the 1st day, and no offers result, of course you go to the next clubs on your list on Day 2. That's how most players have to do it, including my own DDs a few times, because there is just so much more demand than there is supply of open slots. But that doesn't change the point about Day 1 is the most important day to try. No, true beginners or known really mediocre players shouldn't waste their time going to Day 1 of the best clubs, but doing 1 reach club and 2 "hoping I have a good chance" all on Day 1 is a good strategy, because those other 2 "hoping maybe" clubs get even less likely on Day 2 of tryouts and what might've been an offer on Day 1 may not be any offer at all Day 2 and beyond.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Now she's a lot better and we were less surprised that she got 1st day offers when she did for U16s & U17s at even better clubs/teams. And she got an offer from MOCO to be on their travel team that 2nd year but turned it down for a better regional team, and ended up playing MOCO travel anyway because they boost their results by playing an awful lot of regional tournaments against club teams instead of travel teams who'd cream them.

That DD is in college now.

Couple of incongruities that I don't understand. We are looking at both MVSA and MOCO this year so whenever someone puts forward info I'm trying to take a few minutes to identify if their claims are accurate.

1) General consensus seems to be that MVSA plays the most local tournaments out of all the "good" clubs, including at their 1s level. According to MOCOs website their U13-U14 teams play 6-8 multiday tournaments, and their U15+ plays 8-12. Given that there aren't that many multiday tournaments in the CHRVA region (I think there are just 4-5), how can it be that MOCO is padding its results by having their 1s teams play local tournaments? From what I could see MOCO 1s were in the same divisions as MVSA 1s at most of those local multidays like National Harbor, etc. and at NEQ and ECC.

2) Couldn't you make the same argument for MVSA since they play a lot of locals including their 1s teams? Not arguing that they aren't good teams because they are, just that it seems a bit unbalanced to make the statement you did about boosting their results when MVSA apparently does exactly the same thing, just more of it.

3) How long ago did your DD graduate? There's been some pretty significant movement in club performance across the region over the past few years, so it would help to know if we are talking about last year or 3 years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Based on our experience, not doing the fall training with MOCO reduces your chances of making a team. Participation in the fall training might show some sort of commitment to the club. But that's not all: they get to know the players during the fall training program and they give the participants additional rope. We know one player who was offered a spot on a MOCO team, even though she could not show up at the tryouts (because of an injury). The offer was based entirely on her participation at the fall training.

That's just not fair.

Not sure if the injured player had played for MOCO in a prior season, but picking teams is a difficult balancing act for the clubs. Most clubs generally have some loyalty to players who played for them in the prior season and that makes sense. Starting the season with a core group that has played together before is definitely an advantage. But it’s also a good idea to add new players to the team, hopefully to help the overall team improve. But that can lead to situations where players who played for a club for one or more seasons don’t get offers which is a difficult thing to do.

The important thing for parents and prospective players to know that every season is not empty roster that is picked solely on how a player performs at tryouts. Returners, players a club has gotten to know through clinics or high school volleyball, and other factors are all as important (if not more) than what happens at tryouts. So have a few options for potential clubs and make an effort to have your DD get to know those clubs (and vice versa) before tryouts.

The thing the bolded part of your statement leaves out that is probably the MOST determinative of who ends up on the team after tryouts is that if girls who the coaches have never laid eyes on ever in their lives show up at tryouts and slay the tryouts - like truly stand out as really good or great - there are very few teams that will say no to those players just to keep familiar alumni players on the team. MOCO is one of many clubs who, if you go back through the last couple of years of post-tryout reports/complaints from parents, you'll see several posts of parents having been told their girl was definitely going to be put on X team, but then tryouts come and go and they get no offer, or they get an offer for a lower tier team in the club like a Rec team. You show up super well at tryouts, most clubs will fill the roster with whoever they think shined brightest and usually only really hold spots for their tried and true superstars.

While it is true that a player completely unknown to a club can sometimes show up to a tryout and impress so much that they get an offer, I think it is a stretch to suggest that this is frequent or the norm, at least for age groups above 14 or so. Club volleyball is a pretty small world and many coaches/clubs have a pretty good sense of who the talented players are in each age group. For younger players, the scenario described is probably more likely since the players have not been seen as much (or at all if they are totally new).

While I would not go so far as to say that teams are already selected prior to tryouts, our experience has been that most coaches know who they are going to make offers to for 75% or more of the roster spots on a given team by tryouts. Of course players have options too and every player a coach thinks is going to be on their team won't accept the offer which does lead to some shuffling during the tryout period.

I think it would be a risky strategy to just show up at tryouts thinking that your DD will be so impressive that they will get an offer. It might happen, but I don't think it should be Plan A.

I totally agree that no way should showing up unknown and thinking you'll wow them and get an offer be "Plan A" - I never said anything like that. You missed my main point which is that for those unknown or playing for the first time, the advice of only going to one tryout a day is terrible because your ODDS of getting any offer at all (as distant as those odds may already be) your odds get worse right away when you show up somewhere else on Day 2. It's not impossible - you may be good for someone a team thought they'd definitely get and then they accept somewhere else so they're down a ______________ position player and you look pretty decent for it. That does happen.

But everyone trying out has their best shot on the first day a particular club has tryouts. Again, my 3 daughters got almost all of their offers (and some to quality teams with the most competition) on Day 1, so I don't suggest anyone wait if possible and do you're 2-3 most desired teams on Day 1 of tryouts. (And we know people who've done 4 in one day, but that really is too much for most of us.)

That was not our experience. My DD prioritized her reach clubs early during the tryouts and that never worked. She got offers from the more desperate clubs during the last days of tryouts. When she figured out that Friday, Saturday, and Sunday tryouts were not very successful, she showed up at make-up tryouts of less competitive clubs and she got multiple offers (both on Monday and on Tuesday). But I agree that trying out at a mediocre club in the first day of tryouts will likely result in an offer. I just offered a different experience to show that going around and offering advice as if your experience is the most representative of them all is not ideal. People can experience life differently than you do.

Ummm... there is "having a different experience", and there is "you do not understand my point yet again". How your DD or my DD got on a team can absolutely vary. But you seem to still not get (or not want to admit) that for Club teams, it's basically just a simple fact that anyone trying to get on a decent all the way to great team, has their best shot at joining that team on the 1st day of that team's tryouts. This isn't a "your experience is different than mine" thing, it's a math/tryout odds" thing. Regardless of whether the team goes into tryouts already mostly knowing the roster or it really is open and whoever shows up best on the tryout courts gets offers first, either way, the first day is the day there is mostly likely to still be wiggle room in the roster. Yes, your kid then has to show up and look as kick-ass as possible in their skills, which is hard for a majority especially if the tryout is packed. But I'm not sure what you're saying is a different experience: when your DD went on 1st day for her "reach" teams and it didn't work out, that doesn't change that she was even LESS likely to find a spot on any of those reach teams in the later days. Only when reach team realizes, after the "offer acceptance dust" settles, that they are missing a player or 2 for specific positions, then they may have make ups or another round just for those positions. Again, you'd want to be in the first batch of tryouts for that too because once they find someone they can work with and make that offer, you might be a little better but the spot is filled if you're later.

Your DD's experience getting offers later from desperate clubs and at make up tryouts is a common experience as well. Doesn't change that for popular clubs, the first day has the most opportunity even if it's only the tinyest sliver of an opportunity.

I think you might be right for extremely talented players - clubs want them and are willing to make offers after the first day of tryouts. Regular players are likely offered a position on a second team or kept on the list as alternate. The top clubs will want to see all the players who show up before they make offers. Look at MVSA and MOCO, who simply weed out the bottom players during the first day of tryouts without making any offers. Again, you are trying to present your experience as the only relevant experience and your opinion as the only valid opinion.

One of my DD's in particular was in now way a stellar player when she first tried out for MOCO for the U14s, after playing the year before at a very mediocre club that accepted lots of newbies. Nor was she so dramatically better when she tried out for U15s Metro Clubs (not travel) the next season. Nor is she tall. She's got some hustle, but she is truly not a superstar. And yet she still got offers on the first day from MOCO and later both Metro clubs she tried out for U15s for.

So first of all let's correct your whole misinformation (because it's not about "my experience being the only experience"; it's about you actually saying things that are false as statements of fact, like that MOCO "only clears out the bottom players first day but makes no offer first day, then starts making offers on Day 2". At least 5 players on DD's team that first year playing for MOCO got their offers that first day, 3 on the spot (including DD). Now she's a lot better and we were less surprised that she got 1st day offers when she did for U16s & U17s at even better clubs/teams. And she got an offer from MOCO to be on their travel team that 2nd year but turned it down for a better regional team, and ended up playing MOCO travel anyway because they boost their results by playing an awful lot of regional tournaments against club teams instead of travel teams who'd cream them.

That DD is in college now, but we have another DD who's been playing since U13s, now going into U15s tryouts, and nothing has changed in our experience or that of other families we've gotten to know well where players who are NOT obvious hotshots, not super tall, and were not known to MOCO beforehand were made offers on the first day to MOCO teams. MVSA is a way better club overall, so you do have to be more of a hotshot to stand out, but again, if they're really missing a position someone like my DD still stands a better possibility (tiny as it may be but it's possible) on Day 1. Way less so on Day 2 when that "maybe" spot already got filled by someone else on Day 1.

You can keep avoiding the fact that Day 1 is the day with the most truly open slots on any given team (either actual open slots or slots that turn out to be open because a player that team was sure would say yes gets an offer from a better team and jumps ship so now it's open), but no amount of "your experience isn't everyone's experience" changes whether any given player has their best shot on Day 1. And nothing I'm saying means a majority of those trying out will get offers. It's always slim chances for most, but they get even more slim after Day 1.

If you show up on Day 2 and play just as well, and even maybe look a little better because most of the serious players tried out on Day 1, you're still competing for what's left of open slots on the roster and that same team is likely to make more offers to other Day 1 players after seeing Day 2 and knowing who has already rejected them. And whenever the deadline for acceptances is, the whole musical chairs frenzy of filling those last spots still usually (but not always) favors players who stood out early on, especially if they go back for special position tryouts if those happen.

What this all means for any one player's chances is a combo of lots of factors, including luck, but it is true as a general rule, not just "my experience".

I can agree with the last statement, but I still believe you are trying to oversell the idea that the first day of tryouts is the one you have the best shot at making a team. Coaches know the general level of the players in their age group and make offers only if the players showing up meet or exceed a level they expect (level that depends on the club). Mediocre players are kept waiting until the last moment and finally get their offers when the stars turned down offers. You can be a mediocre player for a top club, while you are a star player in a mediocre club. Of course you can get a same day offer from a mediocre club and wait forever for an offer from your reach club. So it all depends on your skill level and how you play your cards. My DD wanted to be in top shape for the reach clubs, so that's where she focused her efforts during her first days. She never got a spot on a team just for trying out earlier (she is not that good tbh, but I cannot blame her for trying). Most of our offers came toward the end of the tryout period, when we got to the level where we expected she belonged.

I didn't mean to spread misinformation about MOCO, but I had no idea that they make offers during the first day of tryouts. I wrote that based on our tryout experience with them, which seemed pretty similar to what we experienced with MVSA (two days with cuts during the first day). We never got into the MOCO circle because we prefer the MVSA activities (clinics, fall league).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Now she's a lot better and we were less surprised that she got 1st day offers when she did for U16s & U17s at even better clubs/teams. And she got an offer from MOCO to be on their travel team that 2nd year but turned it down for a better regional team, and ended up playing MOCO travel anyway because they boost their results by playing an awful lot of regional tournaments against club teams instead of travel teams who'd cream them.

That DD is in college now.

Couple of incongruities that I don't understand. We are looking at both MVSA and MOCO this year so whenever someone puts forward info I'm trying to take a few minutes to identify if their claims are accurate.

1) General consensus seems to be that MVSA plays the most local tournaments out of all the "good" clubs, including at their 1s level. According to MOCOs website their U13-U14 teams play 6-8 multiday tournaments, and their U15+ plays 8-12. Given that there aren't that many multiday tournaments in the CHRVA region (I think there are just 4-5), how can it be that MOCO is padding its results by having their 1s teams play local tournaments? From what I could see MOCO 1s were in the same divisions as MVSA 1s at most of those local multidays like National Harbor, etc. and at NEQ and ECC.

2) Couldn't you make the same argument for MVSA since they play a lot of locals including their 1s teams? Not arguing that they aren't good teams because they are, just that it seems a bit unbalanced to make the statement you did about boosting their results when MVSA apparently does exactly the same thing, just more of it.

3) How long ago did your DD graduate? There's been some pretty significant movement in club performance across the region over the past few years, so it would help to know if we are talking about last year or 3 years ago.

Hi there, here are my responses:

1) It's not that MVSA and MOCO don't play local tournaments - they are after all both CHRVA clubs. But I only noticed in going with my youngest the last couple of years that MOCO 1s end up against other clubs 2s teams more often than I remember in all the earlier years of having girls playing CHRVA region vball. So it's not about whether they play local or not, it's about the fact that never ever ever do we find our DD's 2 teams up against MVSA 1s. Never. But we've ended up against MOCO's 1s (and a couple of times our 2s team beat them) and it's that part about being in tournaments where 1s end up against 2s, mostly MD Jrs tournaments but a few others as well. To be clear, MOCO isn't the only 1st team we've been against in 2s teams, but MOCO is the only familiar one we've met several times.

2) See previous answer. We've never ever ever played MVSA 1s in a 2s bracket at local tournaments. We've seen or played MOCO 1s several times at the same.

3) The DD I was talking mostly about graduated last year. But I have another who's going into her 3rd year of playing club, and we are always checking in with other families we've become friends with along the way. So my info or observations are current, but feel free to come up with specific examples of where what I"m saying is no longer true.