S/O Building a Rigorous HS Experience Outside the Magnets

[Anonymous]

My DC took AP Lang in 10th grade. TBH, 9th grade would have been better. I had to push for it, but the school finally did it. I don't know why the school gated this class, since College Board doesn't have any requirements for AP Lang.

DC also took AP Gov (9th) and APUSH in 10th, both of which are pretty common in MCPS HS.

[Anonymous]

Take the GED and enroll in college coursework.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And what did your kid do for WL after 10th grade? Colleges want to see 3 years of WL in HS

Myth

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a magnet parent, I cannot understand why MCPS does not make the magnet curriculum, syllabus, textbooks, resources, tests, reviews and projects available on the MCPS website?

It is not as if everyone will rush to copy it. Only kids who are interested can pick and choose. Why not?

MCPS doesn’t do that for the comprehensive curriculum either. In their view, all curriculum (and supports) are intellectual property of MCPS that the district paid its employees to put together. They aren’t worried about an ambitious kid or parent accessing it. They don’t want another school district or a private doing so.

lol you are referring to the Curriculum 2.0 boondoggle that MCPS wasted a fortune to write,wrote and tried to sell, and then threw in the trash and bought New York's Engage/Eureka which is sold at cost, not for profit, because they aren't evil and stupid like MCPS leadership?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DC took AP Lang in 10th grade. TBH, 9th grade would have been better. I had to push for it, but the I'm school finally did it. I don't know why the school gated this class, since College Board doesn't have any requirements for AP Lang.

DC also took AP Gov (9th) and APUSH in 10th, both of which are pretty common in MCPS HS.

And then what for 11th and 12th English?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The other post about rigor made me think about how we might pool our collective knowledge to help new HS parents support their kids in building a rigorous HS path outside the Magnets.

Right now, it seems like the standard guidance really short-changes kids who are ready for a challenge, particularly in 9th and 10th, with the "Honors for All" model. So, if you were helping a bright kid choose classes for 9th and 10th, what would you advise?

Just stop.

All MCPS HS's have rigorous classes.
It is not "honors for all" many kids take regular classes and gee wiz they also go to college and do well in life.

If you want "rigorous" your kid must be qualified to take higher math and science. AP's and Honors.

Why is this a hard concept?

My kids did math at min 2 years a head of their peers from 3rd grade on. Is your kid that advanced? Doubt it.

Another MCPS parent who thinks their gifted kid is Young Sheldon. Idiot.

Imagine arrogantly bragging about performing at a level that is at least a year below a whole class full of students at any middle school in a well-resourced neighborhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a magnet parent, I cannot understand why MCPS does not make the magnet curriculum, syllabus, textbooks, resources, tests, reviews and projects available on the MCPS website?

It is not as if everyone will rush to copy it. Only kids who are interested can pick and choose. Why not?

MCPS doesn’t do that for the comprehensive curriculum either. In their view, all curriculum (and supports) are intellectual property of MCPS that the district paid its employees to put together. They aren’t worried about an ambitious kid or parent accessing it. They don’t want another school district or a private doing so.

lol you are referring to the Curriculum 2.0 boondoggle that MCPS wasted a fortune to write,wrote and tried to sell, and then threw in the trash and bought New York's Engage/Eureka which is sold at cost, not for profit, because they aren't evil and stupid like MCPS leadership?

I assume the PP was talking about the homegrown HS curriculum, which has never gone away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a magnet parent, I cannot understand why MCPS does not make the magnet curriculum, syllabus, textbooks, resources, tests, reviews and projects available on the MCPS website?

It is not as if everyone will rush to copy it. Only kids who are interested can pick and choose. Why not?

MCPS doesn’t do that for the comprehensive curriculum either. In their view, all curriculum (and supports) are intellectual property of MCPS that the district paid its employees to put together. They aren’t worried about an ambitious kid or parent accessing it. They don’t want another school district or a private doing so.

lol you are referring to the Curriculum 2.0 boondoggle that MCPS wasted a fortune to write,wrote and tried to sell, and then threw in the trash and bought New York's Engage/Eureka which is sold at cost, not for profit, because they aren't evil and stupid like MCPS leadership?

You're a dumb troll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that schools aren't set up for a small group of students to take an alternative path.

A few years ago, our school allowed (by petition) for students to skip honors bio and go straight to AP bio. Same for Chem, I think, but that was less popular.

They did this for a couple of years, and then the AP-arm's race took over and every kid aspiring to a top university tried to join this path (because if they didn't, they thought they would be 'behind' their peers on college applications).

Such a practice worked fine for a small group of kids who could succeed without the prereq. But when lots of kids wanted to do it, it simultanously created a lot of kids not doing well and also watered down the experience for the kids who wanted to the more rigorous experience. (It's fine and dandy to say teachers shouldn't slow things down to accommodate less prepared kids, but it doesn't really work that way.)

After a couple of years of allowing this, the school ultimately went back to enforcing the prerequisite strictly. Over the last 5 years, I've never heard of a kid successfully skipping the honors prereq.

If schools can figure out an objective way to really assess kids for skipping prereqs (maybe a placement test), a more rigorous pathway would really open. But so far, they've never done this effectively-- at least at our school.

The way this has worked out REALLY well in my opinion is on the physics track. AP Physics 1 is a great and more rigorous alternative to honors physics. It would be great if bio and chem had a similar class--much more rigorous than the honors version, but not skipping straight to the advanced AP version of the science class.

Who keeps telling this lie about AP Physics 1. Unless you’re in a magnet program, AP Physics 1 is not more rigorous. And because half the kids haven’t gotten to Pre-Cal it’s impossible for it to be. It’s Algebra based. Both AP Physics 1 and AP Pre-Cal should be stopped since most colleges are not giving credit for either. This is how we get 9th graders trying to take AP classes. And while some scientist do think Physics should be taken first, this course is not more rigorous as kids Algebra skills are not deep enough for it to be.

Have you looked at the questions for AP Physics 1. They are at a much higher level than Honors Physics.

If you are referring to the AP Physics 1 exam questions, yes I’ve looked. I’ve also spoken with people about the course, its intent and why its exam scores are low. Have you asked why most colleges do not give credit for AP Physics 1 and why lots of schools don’t offer AP Physics 2.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Start APs early, or IB if available. That is where the rigor is.

Bio

OP here and the challenge is that high schools don't set you up to take APs early. That's why I think sharing information is going to be helpful. If you need Honors Bio to get to AP Bio, then the advice should be to knock that class out freshman year so you can get to AP Bio as soon as possible.

What are you talking about? Many MCPS students take 1-2 APs grade 9. How much earlier do you want kids to take APs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Start APs early, or IB if available. That is where the rigor is.

Bio

OP here and the challenge is that high schools don't set you up to take APs early. That's why I think sharing information is going to be helpful. If you need Honors Bio to get to AP Bio, then the advice should be to knock that class out freshman year so you can get to AP Bio as soon as possible.

What are you talking about? Many MCPS students take 1-2 APs grade 9. How much earlier do you want kids to take APs?

I think you are illustrating the point. Many MCPS students do take 1-2 APs in Grade 9, but standard MCPS scheduling guidance does not make those options clear, at least outside the magnets. You have to ask friends, or ask here on DCUM, to find out what is possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And what did your kid do for WL after 10th grade? Colleges want to see 3 years of WL in HS

That's where the rigor becomes problematic. I guess you can take AP Lit in the language in Gr11, but that's tough for non-native speakers. And for 12th--no idea--maybe something at a community college but that's hard to organize too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that schools aren't set up for a small group of students to take an alternative path.

A few years ago, our school allowed (by petition) for students to skip honors bio and go straight to AP bio. Same for Chem, I think, but that was less popular.

They did this for a couple of years, and then the AP-arm's race took over and every kid aspiring to a top university tried to join this path (because if they didn't, they thought they would be 'behind' their peers on college applications).

Such a practice worked fine for a small group of kids who could succeed without the prereq. But when lots of kids wanted to do it, it simultanously created a lot of kids not doing well and also watered down the experience for the kids who wanted to the more rigorous experience. (It's fine and dandy to say teachers shouldn't slow things down to accommodate less prepared kids, but it doesn't really work that way.)

After a couple of years of allowing this, the school ultimately went back to enforcing the prerequisite strictly. Over the last 5 years, I've never heard of a kid successfully skipping the honors prereq.

If schools can figure out an objective way to really assess kids for skipping prereqs (maybe a placement test), a more rigorous pathway would really open. But so far, they've never done this effectively-- at least at our school.

The way this has worked out REALLY well in my opinion is on the physics track. AP Physics 1 is a great and more rigorous alternative to honors physics. It would be great if bio and chem had a similar class--much more rigorous than the honors version, but not skipping straight to the advanced AP version of the science class.

Who keeps telling this lie about AP Physics 1. Unless you’re in a magnet program, AP Physics 1 is not more rigorous. And because half the kids haven’t gotten to Pre-Cal it’s impossible for it to be. It’s Algebra based. Both AP Physics 1 and AP Pre-Cal should be stopped since most colleges are not giving credit for either. This is how we get 9th graders trying to take AP classes. And while some scientist do think Physics should be taken first, this course is not more rigorous as kids Algebra skills are not deep enough for it to be.

Have you looked at the questions for AP Physics 1. They are at a much higher level than Honors Physics.

If you are referring to the AP Physics 1 exam questions, yes I’ve looked. I’ve also spoken with people about the course, its intent and why its exam scores are low. Have you asked why most colleges do not give credit for AP Physics 1 and why lots of schools don’t offer AP Physics 2.

AP1 is much more difficult than Honors Physics. It provides a strong foundation in physics. The AP exam is challenging. My kid took AP Physics 1 in 10th grade and struggled. He then took an advanced mechanics course with Calculus at MC and sailed through it. He said it was easy after AP Physics 1 because he knew most of the content already

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Start APs early, or IB if available. That is where the rigor is.

Bio

OP here and the challenge is that high schools don't set you up to take APs early. That's why I think sharing information is going to be helpful. If you need Honors Bio to get to AP Bio, then the advice should be to knock that class out freshman year so you can get to AP Bio as soon as possible.

What are you talking about? Many MCPS students take 1-2 APs grade 9. How much earlier do you want kids to take APs?

I think you are illustrating the point. Many MCPS students do take 1-2 APs in Grade 9, but standard MCPS scheduling guidance does not make those options clear, at least outside the magnets. You have to ask friends, or ask here on DCUM, to find out what is possible.

That’s not true. The course options are listed there on the registration form. Further, there is no standard beyond the graduation requirements. There is a traditional path that is based upon where the majority of kids are and then there is what your kid wants/is capable of doing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Start APs early, or IB if available. That is where the rigor is.

Bio

OP here and the challenge is that high schools don't set you up to take APs early. That's why I think sharing information is going to be helpful. If you need Honors Bio to get to AP Bio, then the advice should be to knock that class out freshman year so you can get to AP Bio as soon as possible.

What are you talking about? Many MCPS students take 1-2 APs grade 9. How much earlier do you want kids to take APs?

I think you are illustrating the point. Many MCPS students do take 1-2 APs in Grade 9, but standard MCPS scheduling guidance does not make those options clear, at least outside the magnets. You have to ask friends, or ask here on DCUM, to find out what is possible.

My school sent a flier suggesting students LIMIT themselves to 1 AP in 9th, 2 APs in 10th, 3 in 11th, 4 in 12th.

The AP courses are on the course selection card, not a hidden secret.