Roe v Wade struck down

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Gouls indeed.

Yeah I read this this morning. It’s long and a crazy story, worth a read. I don’t think really applies here - because of the circumstances of the case the same thing could have happened to her pre-Dobbs as well as post-Dobbs.

I just clicked on this thread; is it something that will happen more often after Dobbs? Then I’d say it’s relevant.

[Anonymous]

Can someone explain this to me? It seems like Ron DeSantis banned abortions but wants to put the blame on doctors for not providing abortions. WTF?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Can someone explain this to me? It seems like Ron DeSantis banned abortions but wants to put the blame on doctors for not providing abortions. WTF?

Internal polls in Florida must be dire for Republicans on every level.

[Anonymous]

Ok so most of the anti-abortion laws on the books in Florida and other places were written by lawmakers who have maybe a 5th grader's understanding of human anatomy and pregnancy. The laws are very unclear in cases and are deliberately vague. This is definitely hamstrung doctors in terms of what kinds of medical care they can provide to patients out of fear of going to jail or losing their license under the abortion law. So rather than acknowledging that these laws are at the very least horribly written, Deathsantis thanks doctors should be punished for following the law.
Regardless of where you stand on, the issue of abortion should have been written by a healthcare provider instead of dipshits who think you can magically re-implant ectopic pregnancies for example.

I read a really horrible new story about a young woman who got misopstoal in a state where it was legal and then came back to a state where it wasn't legal and had retained tissues And basically the doctors refused to perform a d&c on her because that could be considered aiding an abortion

https://www.propublica.org/article/georgia-abortion-ban-amber-thurman-death

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok so most of the anti-abortion laws on the books in Florida and other places were written by lawmakers who have maybe a 5th grader's understanding of human anatomy and pregnancy. The laws are very unclear in cases and are deliberately vague. This is definitely hamstrung doctors in terms of what kinds of medical care they can provide to patients out of fear of going to jail or losing their license under the abortion law. So rather than acknowledging that these laws are at the very least horribly written, Deathsantis thanks doctors should be punished for following the law.
Regardless of where you stand on, the issue of abortion should have been written by a healthcare provider instead of dipshits who think you can magically re-implant ectopic pregnancies for example.

I read a really horrible new story about a young woman who got misopstoal in a state where it was legal and then came back to a state where it wasn't legal and had retained tissues And basically the doctors refused to perform a d&c on her because that could be considered aiding an abortion

https://www.propublica.org/article/georgia-abortion-ban-amber-thurman-death

Doctors do stupid things and make bad decisions a lot more frequently than people realize. The Florida law, like every state, has stipulations for emergency treatments with include ectopic pregnancies, failed/septic abortions (like what this women had), molar pregnancies, missed miscarriages. These become and emergency if not treated- which the says clearly specify they CAN treat. These conditions being an imminent emergency is obstetrics 101. So if a doctors delays or refuses treatment, it isn’t because of the law, it is because of their own negligence- then yes they should be charged with malpractice because that is what it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok so most of the anti-abortion laws on the books in Florida and other places were written by lawmakers who have maybe a 5th grader's understanding of human anatomy and pregnancy. The laws are very unclear in cases and are deliberately vague. This is definitely hamstrung doctors in terms of what kinds of medical care they can provide to patients out of fear of going to jail or losing their license under the abortion law. So rather than acknowledging that these laws are at the very least horribly written, Deathsantis thanks doctors should be punished for following the law.
Regardless of where you stand on, the issue of abortion should have been written by a healthcare provider instead of dipshits who think you can magically re-implant ectopic pregnancies for example.

I read a really horrible new story about a young woman who got misopstoal in a state where it was legal and then came back to a state where it wasn't legal and had retained tissues And basically the doctors refused to perform a d&c on her because that could be considered aiding an abortion

https://www.propublica.org/article/georgia-abortion-ban-amber-thurman-death

Doctors do stupid things and make bad decisions a lot more frequently than people realize. The Florida law, like every state, has stipulations for emergency treatments with include ectopic pregnancies, failed/septic abortions (like what this women had), molar pregnancies, missed miscarriages. These become and emergency if not treated- which the says clearly specify they CAN treat. These conditions being an imminent emergency is obstetrics 101. So if a doctors delays or refuses treatment, it isn’t because of the law, it is because of their own negligence- then yes they should be charged with malpractice because that is what it is.

And yet without Florida’s horrible abortion ban they wouldn’t have hesitated to treat her. Get rid of the bans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok so most of the anti-abortion laws on the books in Florida and other places were written by lawmakers who have maybe a 5th grader's understanding of human anatomy and pregnancy. The laws are very unclear in cases and are deliberately vague. This is definitely hamstrung doctors in terms of what kinds of medical care they can provide to patients out of fear of going to jail or losing their license under the abortion law. So rather than acknowledging that these laws are at the very least horribly written, Deathsantis thanks doctors should be punished for following the law.
Regardless of where you stand on, the issue of abortion should have been written by a healthcare provider instead of dipshits who think you can magically re-implant ectopic pregnancies for example.

I read a really horrible new story about a young woman who got misopstoal in a state where it was legal and then came back to a state where it wasn't legal and had retained tissues And basically the doctors refused to perform a d&c on her because that could be considered aiding an abortion

https://www.propublica.org/article/georgia-abortion-ban-amber-thurman-death

Doctors do stupid things and make bad decisions a lot more frequently than people realize. The Florida law, like every state, has stipulations for emergency treatments with include ectopic pregnancies, failed/septic abortions (like what this women had), molar pregnancies, missed miscarriages. These become and emergency if not treated- which the says clearly specify they CAN treat. These conditions being an imminent emergency is obstetrics 101. So if a doctors delays or refuses treatment, it isn’t because of the law, it is because of their own negligence- then yes they should be charged with malpractice because that is what it is.

And yet without Florida’s horrible abortion ban they wouldn’t have hesitated to treat her. Get rid of the bans.

Get rid of the bans and get rid of trump who gave us the bans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok so most of the anti-abortion laws on the books in Florida and other places were written by lawmakers who have maybe a 5th grader's understanding of human anatomy and pregnancy. The laws are very unclear in cases and are deliberately vague. This is definitely hamstrung doctors in terms of what kinds of medical care they can provide to patients out of fear of going to jail or losing their license under the abortion law. So rather than acknowledging that these laws are at the very least horribly written, Deathsantis thanks doctors should be punished for following the law.
Regardless of where you stand on, the issue of abortion should have been written by a healthcare provider instead of dipshits who think you can magically re-implant ectopic pregnancies for example.

I read a really horrible new story about a young woman who got misopstoal in a state where it was legal and then came back to a state where it wasn't legal and had retained tissues And basically the doctors refused to perform a d&c on her because that could be considered aiding an abortion

https://www.propublica.org/article/georgia-abortion-ban-amber-thurman-death

Doctors do stupid things and make bad decisions a lot more frequently than people realize. The Florida law, like every state, has stipulations for emergency treatments with include ectopic pregnancies, failed/septic abortions (like what this women had), molar pregnancies, missed miscarriages. These become and emergency if not treated- which the says clearly specify they CAN treat. These conditions being an imminent emergency is obstetrics 101. So if a doctors delays or refuses treatment, it isn’t because of the law, it is because of their own negligence- then yes they should be charged with malpractice because that is what it is.

And yet without Florida’s horrible abortion ban they wouldn’t have hesitated to treat her. Get rid of the bans.

Get rid of the bans and get rid of trump who gave us the bans.

+1

Though let’s get rid of maga altogether.

[Anonymous]

More horrible stories coming out about consequences of abortion bans.

Here is the latest: A young mother who was miscarrying her second child was refused an abortion - told to wait until the heartbeat stopped - and ended up dying of sepsis. In Texas, of course.

Apparently Pro-Publica has 2 such stories and this is the first they are publishing.

https://www.propublica.org/article/josseli-barnica-death-miscarriage-texas-abortion-ban

On Sept. 2, 2021, at 17 weeks and four days pregnant, she went to the hospital with cramps, according to her records. The next day, when the bleeding worsened, she returned. Within two hours of her arrival on Sept. 3, an ultrasound confirmed “bulging membranes in the vagina with the fetal head in the open cervix,” dilated at 8.9 cm, and that she had low amniotic fluid. The miscarriage was “in progress,” the radiologist wrote.

When Barnica’s husband arrived, she told him doctors couldn’t intervene until there was no heartbeat.

The next day, Dr. Shirley Lima, an OB on duty, diagnosed an “inevitable” miscarriage.

In Barnica’s chart, she noted that the fetal heartbeat was detected and wrote that she was providing Barnica with pain medication and “emotional support.”

In a state that hadn’t banned abortion, Barnica could have immediately been offered the options that major medical organizations, including international ones, say is the standard of evidence-based care: speeding up labor with medication or a dilation and evacuation procedure to empty the uterus.

“We know that the sooner you intervene in these situations, the better outcomes are,” said Dr. Steven Porter, an OB-GYN in Cleveland.

But Texas’ new abortion ban had just gone into effect. It required physicians to confirm the absence of a fetal heartbeat before intervening unless there was a “medical emergency,” which the law did not define. It required doctors to make written notes on the patient’s condition and the reason abortion was necessary.

The law did not account for the possibility of a future emergency, one that could develop in hours or days without intervention, doctors told ProPublica.

Barnica was technically still stable. But lying in the hospital with her cervix open wider than a baseball left her uterus exposed to bacteria and placed her at high risk of developing sepsis, experts told ProPublica. Infections can move fast and be hard to control once they take hold.

The scenario felt all too familiar for Dr. Leilah Zahedi-Spung, a maternal-fetal medicine specialist who used to work in Tennessee and reviewed a summary of Barnica’s records at ProPublica’s request.

Abortion bans put doctors in an impossible position, she said, forcing them to decide whether to risk malpractice or a felony charge. After her state enacted one of the strictest bans in the country, she also waited to offer interventions in cases like Barnica’s until the fetal heartbeat stopped or patients showed signs of infection, praying every time that nothing would go wrong. It’s why she ultimately moved to Colorado.

The doctors treating Barnica “absolutely didn’t do the right thing,” she said. But she understood why they would have felt “totally stuck,” especially if they worked at a hospital that hadn’t promised to defend them.

Even three years after Barnica’s death, HCA Healthcare, the hospital chain that treated Barnica, will not disclose whether it has a policy on how to treat miscarriages.

As the hours passed in the Houston hospital, Barnica couldn’t find relief. On the phone with her aunt Rosa Elda Calix Barnica, she complained that doctors kept performing ultrasounds to check the fetal heartbeat but were not helping her end the miscarriage.

Around 4 a.m. on Sept. 5, 40 hours after Barnica had arrived, doctors could no longer detect any heart activity. Soon after, Lima delivered Barnica’s fetus, giving her medication to help speed up the labor.

Dr. Joel Ross, the OB-GYN who oversaw her care, discharged her after about eight more hours.

The bleeding continued, but when Barnica called the hospital, she was told that was expected. Her aunt grew alarmed two days later when the bleeding grew heavier.

Go back, she told her niece.

On the evening of Sept. 7, Barnica’s husband rushed her to the hospital as soon as he got off from work. But COVID-19 protocols meant only one visitor could be in the room with her, and they didn’t have a babysitter for their 1-year-old daughter.

So he left and tried to get some sleep.

“I fully expected her to come home,” he said.

But she never did. Her family planned two funerals, one in Houston and another in Honduras.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:More horrible stories coming out about consequences of abortion bans.

Here is the latest: A young mother who was miscarrying her second child was refused an abortion - told to wait until the heartbeat stopped - and ended up dying of sepsis. In Texas, of course.

Apparently Pro-Publica has 2 such stories and this is the first they are publishing.

https://www.propublica.org/article/josseli-barnica-death-miscarriage-texas-abortion-ban

On Sept. 2, 2021, at 17 weeks and four days pregnant, she went to the hospital with cramps, according to her records. The next day, when the bleeding worsened, she returned. Within two hours of her arrival on Sept. 3, an ultrasound confirmed “bulging membranes in the vagina with the fetal head in the open cervix,” dilated at 8.9 cm, and that she had low amniotic fluid. The miscarriage was “in progress,” the radiologist wrote.

When Barnica’s husband arrived, she told him doctors couldn’t intervene until there was no heartbeat.

The next day, Dr. Shirley Lima, an OB on duty, diagnosed an “inevitable” miscarriage.

In Barnica’s chart, she noted that the fetal heartbeat was detected and wrote that she was providing Barnica with pain medication and “emotional support.”

In a state that hadn’t banned abortion, Barnica could have immediately been offered the options that major medical organizations, including international ones, say is the standard of evidence-based care: speeding up labor with medication or a dilation and evacuation procedure to empty the uterus.

“We know that the sooner you intervene in these situations, the better outcomes are,” said Dr. Steven Porter, an OB-GYN in Cleveland.

But Texas’ new abortion ban had just gone into effect. It required physicians to confirm the absence of a fetal heartbeat before intervening unless there was a “medical emergency,” which the law did not define. It required doctors to make written notes on the patient’s condition and the reason abortion was necessary.

The law did not account for the possibility of a future emergency, one that could develop in hours or days without intervention, doctors told ProPublica.

Barnica was technically still stable. But lying in the hospital with her cervix open wider than a baseball left her uterus exposed to bacteria and placed her at high risk of developing sepsis, experts told ProPublica. Infections can move fast and be hard to control once they take hold.

The scenario felt all too familiar for Dr. Leilah Zahedi-Spung, a maternal-fetal medicine specialist who used to work in Tennessee and reviewed a summary of Barnica’s records at ProPublica’s request.

Abortion bans put doctors in an impossible position, she said, forcing them to decide whether to risk malpractice or a felony charge. After her state enacted one of the strictest bans in the country, she also waited to offer interventions in cases like Barnica’s until the fetal heartbeat stopped or patients showed signs of infection, praying every time that nothing would go wrong. It’s why she ultimately moved to Colorado.

The doctors treating Barnica “absolutely didn’t do the right thing,” she said. But she understood why they would have felt “totally stuck,” especially if they worked at a hospital that hadn’t promised to defend them.

Even three years after Barnica’s death, HCA Healthcare, the hospital chain that treated Barnica, will not disclose whether it has a policy on how to treat miscarriages.

As the hours passed in the Houston hospital, Barnica couldn’t find relief. On the phone with her aunt Rosa Elda Calix Barnica, she complained that doctors kept performing ultrasounds to check the fetal heartbeat but were not helping her end the miscarriage.

Around 4 a.m. on Sept. 5, 40 hours after Barnica had arrived, doctors could no longer detect any heart activity. Soon after, Lima delivered Barnica’s fetus, giving her medication to help speed up the labor.

Dr. Joel Ross, the OB-GYN who oversaw her care, discharged her after about eight more hours.

The bleeding continued, but when Barnica called the hospital, she was told that was expected. Her aunt grew alarmed two days later when the bleeding grew heavier.

Go back, she told her niece.

On the evening of Sept. 7, Barnica’s husband rushed her to the hospital as soon as he got off from work. But COVID-19 protocols meant only one visitor could be in the room with her, and they didn’t have a babysitter for their 1-year-old daughter.

So he left and tried to get some sleep.

“I fully expected her to come home,” he said.

But she never did. Her family planned two funerals, one in Houston and another in Honduras.

Thank you PP - I heard people on Morning Joe saying a woman had died in Texas from the refusal to treat she’d miscarriage but I hadn’t seen this yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok so most of the anti-abortion laws on the books in Florida and other places were written by lawmakers who have maybe a 5th grader's understanding of human anatomy and pregnancy. The laws are very unclear in cases and are deliberately vague. This is definitely hamstrung doctors in terms of what kinds of medical care they can provide to patients out of fear of going to jail or losing their license under the abortion law. So rather than acknowledging that these laws are at the very least horribly written, Deathsantis thanks doctors should be punished for following the law.
Regardless of where you stand on, the issue of abortion should have been written by a healthcare provider instead of dipshits who think you can magically re-implant ectopic pregnancies for example.

I read a really horrible new story about a young woman who got misopstoal in a state where it was legal and then came back to a state where it wasn't legal and had retained tissues And basically the doctors refused to perform a d&c on her because that could be considered aiding an abortion

https://www.propublica.org/article/georgia-abortion-ban-amber-thurman-death

Doctors do stupid things and make bad decisions a lot more frequently than people realize. The Florida law, like every state, has stipulations for emergency treatments with include ectopic pregnancies, failed/septic abortions (like what this women had), molar pregnancies, missed miscarriages. These become and emergency if not treated- which the says clearly specify they CAN treat. These conditions being an imminent emergency is obstetrics 101. So if a doctors delays or refuses treatment, it isn’t because of the law, it is because of their own negligence- then yes they should be charged with malpractice because that is what it is.

And yet without Florida’s horrible abortion ban they wouldn’t have hesitated to treat her. Get rid of the bans.

Get rid of the bans and get rid of trump who gave us the bans.

+1

Though let’s get rid of maga altogether.

That would fix many problems.

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Jesus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok so most of the anti-abortion laws on the books in Florida and other places were written by lawmakers who have maybe a 5th grader's understanding of human anatomy and pregnancy. The laws are very unclear in cases and are deliberately vague. This is definitely hamstrung doctors in terms of what kinds of medical care they can provide to patients out of fear of going to jail or losing their license under the abortion law. So rather than acknowledging that these laws are at the very least horribly written, Deathsantis thanks doctors should be punished for following the law.
Regardless of where you stand on, the issue of abortion should have been written by a healthcare provider instead of dipshits who think you can magically re-implant ectopic pregnancies for example.

I read a really horrible new story about a young woman who got misopstoal in a state where it was legal and then came back to a state where it wasn't legal and had retained tissues And basically the doctors refused to perform a d&c on her because that could be considered aiding an abortion

https://www.propublica.org/article/georgia-abortion-ban-amber-thurman-death

Doctors do stupid things and make bad decisions a lot more frequently than people realize. The Florida law, like every state, has stipulations for emergency treatments with include ectopic pregnancies, failed/septic abortions (like what this women had), molar pregnancies, missed miscarriages. These become and emergency if not treated- which the says clearly specify they CAN treat. These conditions being an imminent emergency is obstetrics 101. So if a doctors delays or refuses treatment, it isn’t because of the law, it is because of their own negligence- then yes they should be charged with malpractice because that is what it is.

Now you’re blaming doctors for trying to do their job while ALSO navigating the legal hellscape creating by politicians who don’t understand medicine or basic reproductive functions.

Republicans always blame someone else.

Accountability is coming on Tuesday.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok so most of the anti-abortion laws on the books in Florida and other places were written by lawmakers who have maybe a 5th grader's understanding of human anatomy and pregnancy. The laws are very unclear in cases and are deliberately vague. This is definitely hamstrung doctors in terms of what kinds of medical care they can provide to patients out of fear of going to jail or losing their license under the abortion law. So rather than acknowledging that these laws are at the very least horribly written, Deathsantis thanks doctors should be punished for following the law.
Regardless of where you stand on, the issue of abortion should have been written by a healthcare provider instead of dipshits who think you can magically re-implant ectopic pregnancies for example.

I read a really horrible new story about a young woman who got misopstoal in a state where it was legal and then came back to a state where it wasn't legal and had retained tissues And basically the doctors refused to perform a d&c on her because that could be considered aiding an abortion

https://www.propublica.org/article/georgia-abortion-ban-amber-thurman-death

Doctors do stupid things and make bad decisions a lot more frequently than people realize. The Florida law, like every state, has stipulations for emergency treatments with include ectopic pregnancies, failed/septic abortions (like what this women had), molar pregnancies, missed miscarriages. These become and emergency if not treated- which the says clearly specify they CAN treat. These conditions being an imminent emergency is obstetrics 101. So if a doctors delays or refuses treatment, it isn’t because of the law, it is because of their own negligence- then yes they should be charged with malpractice because that is what it is.

And yet without Florida’s horrible abortion ban they wouldn’t have hesitated to treat her. Get rid of the bans.

Get rid of the bans and get rid of trump who gave us the bans.

+1

Though let’s get rid of maga altogether.

That would fix many problems.

+1

So many problems.