Tell me about St Andrews in Scotland

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For example -if a student has adhd, it’s to be reported to student services ahead of time, which makes a student eligible for extra accommodations. It’s a question of *when* an illness or disability is reported that determines if a student is allowed to continue; not whether the student has recovered and is ready to continue his/her education. Illness or disability is not considered a valid excuse unless it’s reported according to protocol. But sometimes illness or disability don’t work like that. Covid weirdness created a lot of headaches around this protocol

NO, it didn't. The rules are firm here in states, too. You have ADHD? Or something else? You file with Disability Services at the school the moment you accept. Then disability services tells you that your neurological testing is too old and sends you off to pay another $5K in testing. Then you take the testing into the office. They work out the accommodations your kid may or may not receive. You work out housing particulars if needed. This is all done the summer before your child shows up on campus. And the school year starts. The child takes the form to all professors indicating that the professor has been told that student has a condition (not what) necessitating accomodations. Child takes signed forms back to university services.

You do not spring ADHD or some other mental problem on the university after the student has enrolled and starts encountering problems. That's not fair to your student or to the University. And don't blame that fact on Covid.

British universities just shrug - you were suppost to file. You didn't. . The rules are all there in black and white. Your kid is failing. .Sorry, we are St. Andrews and we have your money. Go figure out your problem

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My son loves it too, but the “no handholding” mantra really, truly an excuse for dismissiveness and shaky leadership- remember- the university is underfunded, that’s why they are recruiting Americans so heavily to begin with. Seriously, other parents are trying to be helpful here, not bash the school for no reason. It’s a small community and stories bubble up. None of the kids who go there need “handholding” to begin with - these are adventurous, independent kids who choose to study abroad for four years, the kids are great! The best thing about this school is the pretty town, the societies and the international student body. The reality of the educational approach really is like zoom classes but in person. Unapproachable professors, graduate students of varying quality teaching entry level classes, silent classrooms that don’t encourage class participation, quality we are used to as Americans doesn’t exist there. It is a different mentality, just buyer beware.

Glad your son loves St Andrews, but I think your characterisation of the academics is wrong. The professors, research, and academic opportunities won't come to you, you have to learn to seek them out, as with many things in life -- jobs, grad school, etc.

I know many students who did the bare minimum academically at St Andrews, but I also know many who have developed great relationships with professors by going to office hours, fully engaging with the material in classes and tutorials, going to additional lectures, applying for research positions, applying for vertically integrated projects, applying for scholarship programmes like Laidlaw, which St Andrews is a part of and funds students to undertake original research.

You have to take some initiative -- "squeeze the orange" -- to make the most of the academics at St Andrews. It's not a good fit for the kid who isn't able to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My understanding is that pretty much every UK university ascribes to the "no handholding" approach, as compared to many US colleges. Also, I don't get the sense that "no handholding" is applied any differently to students from the US versus students from Scotland, England, or elsewhere. I think the university expects to students to advocate for themselves--albeit to less-than-satisfying results in many cases--rather than hearing from a parent. I think this approach just feels more foreign for many US families who are accustomed to advocating for their child.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hi Everyone's info is out of date.
According to our CC at our DC private - which sends kids every year to St Andrew's- Last years admit rate for UK students was 11% - perhaps due to recent Guardian and London Times articles. For rich full pay US students the acceptance rate is also it's waaaaay down- about 25% last year. I'm sure you can guess why- it's a great education and a fantastic option for adventurous US kids who were, again, full-pay so no one is crying for them, but unhooked and getting shut out of US Ivy League. So we are worried about our relatively high stats kid getting in this year. I do hear the UK kids think the US kids are less qualified, and they have a point (not UNqualified, just probably less...)

Interesting. Sounds about right. Where's your source on the US full pay acceptance rate? just curious

[Anonymous]

My kid is there has an ADHD diagnosis and is thriving. DC does not have the same accommodations as here and is still doing fine. Yes DC has to bring a 90- day plus prescription of his meds bc we have not wanted to try to navigate the UK socialized medical system and the meds are covered under our US insurance. But DC LOVES the academics and social life. For a kid with ADHD being able to specialize and take classes in the subjects they are interested in and nothing else and just deep dive is Nirvana!

One of the PP's seems to have a very specific agenda about what happened to their child who sounds like they struggled during Covid and did not inform the university properly and now the parent is now having a typical US-style entitled tantrum.

The Brits don't offer the services we do - Fro instance there is not a smoothie bar and a sushi station on the eating plan. They eat in halls cafeteria style or (horrors!) cook for themselves! In fact there are kids on my kid's hall who self-cater - meaning they cook all their own meals. There are posh kids but there are also working class kids. Our child has friends from all over the world, first class professors, and travels all over Europe on breaks. As has been said before, don't expect handholding at any UK university. But I think that is a good thing. I want my 18-22 year old kid to start standing on their own two feet and self-advocating.

Also it is literally half the price of a private US university. Even with airfare.

[Anonymous]

This provides a good explanation of why many choose St Andrews - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IGcNswofnOU

[Anonymous]

You should think twice about circling the wagons when a fellow family has been treated so poorly they compelled to chime in on a chat board. The comments above about “typical American style entitled tantrum” or “we are St Andrews, we have your money, go deal with your problem” are likely indicative of what this family faced. I think the poster ran into an unforeseen situation that they felt was handled quite harshly by the school, perhaps because of the cultural differences regarding students and regarding Americans. This is a venue to discuss the pros and cons. Of course the poster cannot reveal too many details. Safe to say their student is bright and independent and was accepted to St Andrews, and had something go very wrong. How unkind to chastise them about not being able to fend for themselves, pull themselves up by their bootstraps, etc. Of course they were prepared for the routine experience. It’s a fair point that studying abroad makes your student vulnerable in ways they are not in their own culture. Something to weigh.

[Anonymous]

Taking PP’s comments at face value, I know of situations just like what PP described for their DC at StA, where it was a university in the US. And I have examples both pre-Covid and during Covid in the US.

It is sad that StA did not work out for PP’s DC, but that is not really indicative either of StA or of UK universities more broadly - as identical things have happened to some students at various US universities both pre-Covid and during Covid.

Locally, UVa A&S is quite rigid about the “must graduate or leave after 4 years” rule. They do not make exceptions for mid-term illnesses, for example.

[Anonymous]

You do not spring ADHD or some other mental problem on the university after the student has enrolled and starts encountering problems. That's not fair to your student or to the University. And don't blame that fact on Covid.

British universities just shrug - you were suppost to file. You didn't. . The rules are all there in black and white. Your kid is failing. .Sorry, we are St. Andrews and we have your money. Go figure out your problem

[Anonymous]

Don’t blame Covid for students becoming physically or mentally ill? That is exactly what happened during Covid in large numbers. For those parents whose kids skated through that time unscathed, count your blessings. Families whose students ended up taking time off, getting long Covid, having family members die, dropping out of school- how embarrassing and entitled that they’d hope for understanding from any University, right?

[Anonymous]

in a country with a national health service, it makes very little sense for universities to run their own health system. you can learn to use the system in the country in which you are residing. that would take a little effort.

[Anonymous]

It’s strange, as a current parent, I have talked to other prospective families who are interested in St Andrews, but are also genuinely concerned about the logistics of studying in a foreign country. Health care, travel, and what would happen in the event of an emergency especially. I have always been enthusiastic about St Andrews, but also understand their concerns. For families whose students began in lockdowns and pre recorded online lectures, it was a shaky start. This was true everywhere. However - this thread has a “ride or die St Andrews” feel to it, which in many ways validates a lot of their worries. If a school is working out well for your student, how fortunate, especially on the heels of the last few years of Covid disruption. For families considering all the logistics of study abroad- comments like “figure out the NHS, it’s not hard” and “rules are rules, deal with it” are feeding the worries. I know of one student there who was badly injured in an accident, and she did not get the emergency health care response that would have been standard in the US. It’s not wrong for Americans or any other families to question the powers that be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Locally, UVa A&S is quite rigid about the “must graduate or leave after 4 years” rule. They do not make exceptions for mid-term illnesses, for example.

A big difference is that UVA, and many American Universities, offer summer classes, making it easier to add credits in case you fall behind- St Andrews does not offer summer sessions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s strange, as a current parent, I have talked to other prospective families who are interested in St Andrews, but are also genuinely concerned about the logistics of studying in a foreign country. Health care, travel, and what would happen in the event of an emergency especially. I have always been enthusiastic about St Andrews, but also understand their concerns. For families whose students began in lockdowns and pre recorded online lectures, it was a shaky start. This was true everywhere. However - this thread has a “ride or die St Andrews” feel to it, which in many ways validates a lot of their worries. If a school is working out well for your student, how fortunate, especially on the heels of the last few years of Covid disruption. For families considering all the logistics of study abroad- comments like “figure out the NHS, it’s not hard” and “rules are rules, deal with it” are feeding the worries. I know of one student there who was badly injured in an accident, and she did not get the emergency health care response that would have been standard in the US. It’s not wrong for Americans or any other families to question the powers that be.

I feel like this forum is super anti St Andrews. I have zero affiliation either way, but I've always thought St Andrews was the most hated school on this board.

[Anonymous]

We really like St Andrews but also have concerns about some of their policies. That doesn’t mean we hate the school. But it’s hard to be critical in here without their most loyal Americans in kilts and bagpipes jumping all over you.