Arlington proposing to close county gymnastics program

[Anonymous]

It's crazy how much misinformation is out there or how some people speak about the rec and competitive programs and really have no knowledge of how it works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's crazy how much misinformation is out there or how some people speak about the rec and competitive programs and really have no knowledge of how it works.

Only a handful of people have knowledge of "how it works" because it's a resource that has been focused on serving the needs of that handful of people for several years, without offering much for the community at large. Resources have been focused on the competition team and the rec program has dwindled. People get frustrated that they can never get their kids into the rec classes because they always fill up immediately and the waitlists never move. Even if you can get into classes, there's no guarantee your kid will be able to continue with it in the next session because of the oversubscription.

So to a large degree, the lack of knowledge and understanding of the program is due to the program's own mismanagement and concentration of resources towards a small group of "insiders". Well now those insiders want to fight to keep that program that mostly only benefits them, and it turns out everyone else, who mostly have no direct experience with the program (and some case whose only experience is with being unable to get their kids into classes or to sign up for them themselves) are not eager to go to bat for a program with limited utility outside a small group of people in the know.

You are right I don't know much about rec and competitive programs at Barcroft. That is largely because neither I nor my kids have ever been able to take a class there. It just doesn't seem the program had much interest in us, so now we have very little interest in the program.

[Anonymous]

I really dont understand this narrative that resources are focused in the competitive team! I 100% get the frustration regarding the rec progeam. When my kid was in the toddler progeam I used to take my lunch break pull him from daycare go to gymnastics and go back to daycare becauee it was the only way he could get in.

And i am also not sure why you say people aren't willing to go to bat. We have had an amazing amount of support. We have formed a coalition and are working with rec families and adaptive families.

Look it is fine if you dont agree with the competitive program. I just dont understand why you are saying all this stuff that isnt true. We have almost 5k signatures and the board received over 1k letters in 48 hours. It is everyone. The entire gym is a family.

The competitive team and rec team dont take resources from each other. The competitive team kids volunteer to coach rec classes. The rec classes are built to provide athletes for the competitive team. We dont take their coaches away. They don't take ours away. We work together. We dont compete for space we work together. We also help build and develop the gymnastics programs for the high schools. We are one single ecosystem.


If you want to disagree that is okay but its very frustrating that you are spreading mistruths..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's crazy how much misinformation is out there or how some people speak about the rec and competitive programs and really have no knowledge of how it works.

Only a handful of people have knowledge of "how it works" because it's a resource that has been focused on serving the needs of that handful of people for several years, without offering much for the community at large. Resources have been focused on the competition team and the rec program has dwindled. People get frustrated that they can never get their kids into the rec classes because they always fill up immediately and the waitlists never move. Even if you can get into classes, there's no guarantee your kid will be able to continue with it in the next session because of the oversubscription.

So to a large degree, the lack of knowledge and understanding of the program is due to the program's own mismanagement and concentration of resources towards a small group of "insiders". Well now those insiders want to fight to keep that program that mostly only benefits them, and it turns out everyone else, who mostly have no direct experience with the program (and some case whose only experience is with being unable to get their kids into classes or to sign up for them themselves) are not eager to go to bat for a program with limited utility outside a small group of people in the know.

You are right I don't know much about rec and competitive programs at Barcroft. That is largely because neither I nor my kids have ever been able to take a class there. It just doesn't seem the program had much interest in us, so now we have very little interest in the program.

This is so so inaccurate. Folks from all across the community participate in gymnastics. You sign up for rec classes on the Arlington county website. There's no insider group. For team, kids try out. There were 60 kids at the team tryout my kids attended and my kid made the team with zero connections.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's crazy how much misinformation is out there or how some people speak about the rec and competitive programs and really have no knowledge of how it works.

Only a handful of people have knowledge of "how it works" because it's a resource that has been focused on serving the needs of that handful of people for several years, without offering much for the community at large. Resources have been focused on the competition team and the rec program has dwindled. People get frustrated that they can never get their kids into the rec classes because they always fill up immediately and the waitlists never move. Even if you can get into classes, there's no guarantee your kid will be able to continue with it in the next session because of the oversubscription.

So to a large degree, the lack of knowledge and understanding of the program is due to the program's own mismanagement and concentration of resources towards a small group of "insiders". Well now those insiders want to fight to keep that program that mostly only benefits them, and it turns out everyone else, who mostly have no direct experience with the program (and some case whose only experience is with being unable to get their kids into classes or to sign up for them themselves) are not eager to go to bat for a program with limited utility outside a small group of people in the know.

You are right I don't know much about rec and competitive programs at Barcroft. That is largely because neither I nor my kids have ever been able to take a class there. It just doesn't seem the program had much interest in us, so now we have very little interest in the program.

Wait are your feelings just becauee you couldnt get in? Are you upset at camp signs ups or college admissions processes?

I mean yeah it sucks to not get in, but not sure why that is a reason to hate a whole program. They do offer over 1000 spots for rec classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's crazy how much misinformation is out there or how some people speak about the rec and competitive programs and really have no knowledge of how it works.

Only a handful of people have knowledge of "how it works" because it's a resource that has been focused on serving the needs of that handful of people for several years, without offering much for the community at large. Resources have been focused on the competition team and the rec program has dwindled. People get frustrated that they can never get their kids into the rec classes because they always fill up immediately and the waitlists never move. Even if you can get into classes, there's no guarantee your kid will be able to continue with it in the next session because of the oversubscription.

So to a large degree, the lack of knowledge and understanding of the program is due to the program's own mismanagement and concentration of resources towards a small group of "insiders". Well now those insiders want to fight to keep that program that mostly only benefits them, and it turns out everyone else, who mostly have no direct experience with the program (and some case whose only experience is with being unable to get their kids into classes or to sign up for them themselves) are not eager to go to bat for a program with limited utility outside a small group of people in the know.

You are right I don't know much about rec and competitive programs at Barcroft. That is largely because neither I nor my kids have ever been able to take a class there. It just doesn't seem the program had much interest in us, so now we have very little interest in the program.

Thank you for stating what many of us in the county are thinking.

It feels like a very vocal gymnastics contingent are making a loud fuss to get benefits for a minority grouo

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's crazy how much misinformation is out there or how some people speak about the rec and competitive programs and really have no knowledge of how it works.

Only a handful of people have knowledge of "how it works" because it's a resource that has been focused on serving the needs of that handful of people for several years, without offering much for the community at large. Resources have been focused on the competition team and the rec program has dwindled. People get frustrated that they can never get their kids into the rec classes because they always fill up immediately and the waitlists never move. Even if you can get into classes, there's no guarantee your kid will be able to continue with it in the next session because of the oversubscription.

So to a large degree, the lack of knowledge and understanding of the program is due to the program's own mismanagement and concentration of resources towards a small group of "insiders". Well now those insiders want to fight to keep that program that mostly only benefits them, and it turns out everyone else, who mostly have no direct experience with the program (and some case whose only experience is with being unable to get their kids into classes or to sign up for them themselves) are not eager to go to bat for a program with limited utility outside a small group of people in the know.

You are right I don't know much about rec and competitive programs at Barcroft. That is largely because neither I nor my kids have ever been able to take a class there. It just doesn't seem the program had much interest in us, so now we have very little interest in the program.

This is so so inaccurate. Folks from all across the community participate in gymnastics. You sign up for rec classes on the Arlington county website. There's no insider group. For team, kids try out. There were 60 kids at the team tryout my kids attended and my kid made the team with zero connections.

It's like you didn't read.

People can't get into rec classes because they halved the program post-Covid. They went from offering over 3000 spots to rec students pre-Covid to less than 2000 post-Covid, with huge waitlists that no one gets off of. No one is suggesting that you need connections to get on a team. They are saying that the program is focusing resources (especially coaches) on competition teams, while neglecting the rec program which used to serve a lot more kids and be easier to get a spot in.

I get it, for the people who are being served by the program, it's invaluable. But it's not serving enough people. It's a great program for the few who can participate. Add in the percent of competition gymnasts who are not even county residents, and those getting fee waivers, and people get frustrated. Who is this program for? It's expensive and it really doesn't seem to serve that many people.

I've seen repeated complaints about Long Bridge in this thread. Yes, that facility is expensive. But I can go there tomorrow and use the facilities, as can any other Arlington resident. As for their competition teams, I am not aware of long waitlists for participating -- they seem to do a good job of actually meeting demand while ALSO providing a facility that can and is used by other residents daily for hours a day. Meanwhile Barcroft has huge waitlists and there are lots of kids who want to sign up for gymnastics and can't, despite the fact that county is spending a ton of money on that program. The facility regularly sits empty and despite demand for classes because the program either can't find or can't afford more coaches and the coaches they do have are tilted toward the competition program.

It doesn't serve enough people. It is not a useful asset to the county and it makes no sense to be spending this much money on a program that can't find a way to do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's crazy how much misinformation is out there or how some people speak about the rec and competitive programs and really have no knowledge of how it works.

Only a handful of people have knowledge of "how it works" because it's a resource that has been focused on serving the needs of that handful of people for several years, without offering much for the community at large. Resources have been focused on the competition team and the rec program has dwindled. People get frustrated that they can never get their kids into the rec classes because they always fill up immediately and the waitlists never move. Even if you can get into classes, there's no guarantee your kid will be able to continue with it in the next session because of the oversubscription.

So to a large degree, the lack of knowledge and understanding of the program is due to the program's own mismanagement and concentration of resources towards a small group of "insiders". Well now those insiders want to fight to keep that program that mostly only benefits them, and it turns out everyone else, who mostly have no direct experience with the program (and some case whose only experience is with being unable to get their kids into classes or to sign up for them themselves) are not eager to go to bat for a program with limited utility outside a small group of people in the know.

You are right I don't know much about rec and competitive programs at Barcroft. That is largely because neither I nor my kids have ever been able to take a class there. It just doesn't seem the program had much interest in us, so now we have very little interest in the program.

Wait are your feelings just becauee you couldnt get in? Are you upset at camp signs ups or college admissions processes?

I mean yeah it sucks to not get in, but not sure why that is a reason to hate a whole program. They do offer over 1000 spots for rec classes.

Camps and colleges are not funded by the county. And yes, there are tons of families who can never get a spot in any of the Barcroft programs because they don't offer enough classes to meet need, yet the facility sits empty frequently. And the county pays for this. What is the point of maintaining the facility if the program cannot even find a way to make it available to more than a small number of county residents (and many members of the competition team aren't even county residents!). I just don't get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's crazy how much misinformation is out there or how some people speak about the rec and competitive programs and really have no knowledge of how it works.

Only a handful of people have knowledge of "how it works" because it's a resource that has been focused on serving the needs of that handful of people for several years, without offering much for the community at large. Resources have been focused on the competition team and the rec program has dwindled. People get frustrated that they can never get their kids into the rec classes because they always fill up immediately and the waitlists never move. Even if you can get into classes, there's no guarantee your kid will be able to continue with it in the next session because of the oversubscription.

So to a large degree, the lack of knowledge and understanding of the program is due to the program's own mismanagement and concentration of resources towards a small group of "insiders". Well now those insiders want to fight to keep that program that mostly only benefits them, and it turns out everyone else, who mostly have no direct experience with the program (and some case whose only experience is with being unable to get their kids into classes or to sign up for them themselves) are not eager to go to bat for a program with limited utility outside a small group of people in the know.

You are right I don't know much about rec and competitive programs at Barcroft. That is largely because neither I nor my kids have ever been able to take a class there. It just doesn't seem the program had much interest in us, so now we have very little interest in the program.

This is so so inaccurate. Folks from all across the community participate in gymnastics. You sign up for rec classes on the Arlington county website. There's no insider group. For team, kids try out. There were 60 kids at the team tryout my kids attended and my kid made the team with zero connections.

It's like you didn't read.

People can't get into rec classes because they halved the program post-Covid. They went from offering over 3000 spots to rec students pre-Covid to less than 2000 post-Covid, with huge waitlists that no one gets off of. No one is suggesting that you need connections to get on a team. They are saying that the program is focusing resources (especially coaches) on competition teams, while neglecting the rec program which used to serve a lot more kids and be easier to get a spot in.

I get it, for the people who are being served by the program, it's invaluable. But it's not serving enough people. It's a great program for the few who can participate. Add in the percent of competition gymnasts who are not even county residents, and those getting fee waivers, and people get frustrated. Who is this program for? It's expensive and it really doesn't seem to serve that many people.

I've seen repeated complaints about Long Bridge in this thread. Yes, that facility is expensive. But I can go there tomorrow and use the facilities, as can any other Arlington resident. As for their competition teams, I am not aware of long waitlists for participating -- they seem to do a good job of actually meeting demand while ALSO providing a facility that can and is used by other residents daily for hours a day. Meanwhile Barcroft has huge waitlists and there are lots of kids who want to sign up for gymnastics and can't, despite the fact that county is spending a ton of money on that program. The facility regularly sits empty and despite demand for classes because the program either can't find or can't afford more coaches and the coaches they do have are tilted toward the competition program.

It doesn't serve enough people. It is not a useful asset to the county and it makes no sense to be spending this much money on a program that can't find a way to do that.

I have no idea why you seem to think that I'm years removed from trying to get into rec gymnastics classes. It's exactly the opposite. I have more than one kid and my kids are not old. I also cannot fathom why you think it will be easier to get your kid into gymnasts classes by closing Barcroft. My kids sat on the Dynamic waitlist for over 3 years without getting off. Fortunately we've had the luck of getting into barcroft rec classes some sessions. But that's just via the county lottery program thing.

What I really want to happen is for DPR to get off its tush and to offer more rec classes and fill the facility with gymnastics. That fixes both problems both cost recovery and meeting demand. And you're right, there is tons of demand. It's not a secret that DPR has a strong bias towards the swim program and it's really been hurting gymnastics to not get adequate staffing support.

I also think it's really wrong that you're complaining about fee waivers. I have no issue with this disadvantaged Arlington kids getting some help so they can participate in Arlington sports. It's the same policy across the board for all sports. Fee waivers aren't available for out of County residents.

The facility isn't fully utilized because DPR has decided not to offer other programming in the facility. That's the long and the short of it. (It's right up there with APS zoning kids out of Nottingham because they were planning to close it. That wasn't a coincidence.) And until very very recently, none of this information had been shared with Arlington residents or the gymnastics community. There has been no opportunity for anyone associated with the program to try to help or to try to find solutions. It seems crazy that Arlington can disclose a problem on a Thursday and send termination notices to all the gymnastics staff on the following Monday. Only 4 days later. Literally no notice to anyone. Nor any real information being provided until weeks later. This whole thing has been rammed through by a county manager and head of DPR who don't like gymnastics for whatever reason. This isn't how a county should be run. There needs to be a chance to try to fix this given how much has been invested in the program and how much demand there is. Really, everyone should be finding this super fishy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's crazy how much misinformation is out there or how some people speak about the rec and competitive programs and really have no knowledge of how it works.

Only a handful of people have knowledge of "how it works" because it's a resource that has been focused on serving the needs of that handful of people for several years, without offering much for the community at large. Resources have been focused on the competition team and the rec program has dwindled. People get frustrated that they can never get their kids into the rec classes because they always fill up immediately and the waitlists never move. Even if you can get into classes, there's no guarantee your kid will be able to continue with it in the next session because of the oversubscription.

So to a large degree, the lack of knowledge and understanding of the program is due to the program's own mismanagement and concentration of resources towards a small group of "insiders". Well now those insiders want to fight to keep that program that mostly only benefits them, and it turns out everyone else, who mostly have no direct experience with the program (and some case whose only experience is with being unable to get their kids into classes or to sign up for them themselves) are not eager to go to bat for a program with limited utility outside a small group of people in the know.

You are right I don't know much about rec and competitive programs at Barcroft. That is largely because neither I nor my kids have ever been able to take a class there. It just doesn't seem the program had much interest in us, so now we have very little interest in the program.

This is so so inaccurate. Folks from all across the community participate in gymnastics. You sign up for rec classes on the Arlington county website. There's no insider group. For team, kids try out. There were 60 kids at the team tryout my kids attended and my kid made the team with zero connections.

It's like you didn't read.

People can't get into rec classes because they halved the program post-Covid. They went from offering over 3000 spots to rec students pre-Covid to less than 2000 post-Covid, with huge waitlists that no one gets off of. No one is suggesting that you need connections to get on a team. They are saying that the program is focusing resources (especially coaches) on competition teams, while neglecting the rec program which used to serve a lot more kids and be easier to get a spot in.

I get it, for the people who are being served by the program, it's invaluable. But it's not serving enough people. It's a great program for the few who can participate. Add in the percent of competition gymnasts who are not even county residents, and those getting fee waivers, and people get frustrated. Who is this program for? It's expensive and it really doesn't seem to serve that many people.

I've seen repeated complaints about Long Bridge in this thread. Yes, that facility is expensive. But I can go there tomorrow and use the facilities, as can any other Arlington resident. As for their competition teams, I am not aware of long waitlists for participating -- they seem to do a good job of actually meeting demand while ALSO providing a facility that can and is used by other residents daily for hours a day. Meanwhile Barcroft has huge waitlists and there are lots of kids who want to sign up for gymnastics and can't, despite the fact that county is spending a ton of money on that program. The facility regularly sits empty and despite demand for classes because the program either can't find or can't afford more coaches and the coaches they do have are tilted toward the competition program.

It doesn't serve enough people. It is not a useful asset to the county and it makes no sense to be spending this much money on a program that can't find a way to do that.

I have no idea why you seem to think that I'm years removed from trying to get into rec gymnastics classes. It's exactly the opposite. I have more than one kid and my kids are not old. I also cannot fathom why you think it will be easier to get your kid into gymnasts classes by closing Barcroft. My kids sat on the Dynamic waitlist for over 3 years without getting off. Fortunately we've had the luck of getting into barcroft rec classes some sessions. But that's just via the county lottery program thing.

What I really want to happen is for DPR to get off its tush and to offer more rec classes and fill the facility with gymnastics. That fixes both problems both cost recovery and meeting demand. And you're right, there is tons of demand. It's not a secret that DPR has a strong bias towards the swim program and it's really been hurting gymnastics to not get adequate staffing support.

I also think it's really wrong that you're complaining about fee waivers. I have no issue with this disadvantaged Arlington kids getting some help so they can participate in Arlington sports. It's the same policy across the board for all sports. Fee waivers aren't available for out of County residents.

The facility isn't fully utilized because DPR has decided not to offer other programming in the facility. That's the long and the short of it. (It's right up there with APS zoning kids out of Nottingham because they were planning to close it. That wasn't a coincidence.) And until very very recently, none of this information had been shared with Arlington residents or the gymnastics community. There has been no opportunity for anyone associated with the program to try to help or to try to find solutions. It seems crazy that Arlington can disclose a problem on a Thursday and send termination notices to all the gymnastics staff on the following Monday. Only 4 days later. Literally no notice to anyone. Nor any real information being provided until weeks later. This whole thing has been rammed through by a county manager and head of DPR who don't like gymnastics for whatever reason. This isn't how a county should be run. There needs to be a chance to try to fix this given how much has been invested in the program and how much demand there is. Really, everyone should be finding this super fishy.

So because DPR has failed to fill Barcroft with non-gymnastics programming to help justify the gymnastics facility, it's all a conspiracy? No. The gymnastics program was supposed to fill the facility with gymnastics programming. They failed to do so. They failed to adequately staff to support enough rec classes to justify the space. There is demand for gymnastics programming, there are tons of people who want to sign up for classes but cannot do so, and the gymnastics program failed to address that. For years.

They pushed for full time, salaried coaches, and got them. But then they didn't keep those coaches busy. Why did they increase the breaks between classes? Why did they cancel and refund missed rec classes instead of holding them during the makeup period? These were choices the gymnastics program made. Why? And now the complaint is that DPR did not independently step in to find other programming for the facility? What?

[Anonymous]

Many of us are repeating what Parks said. They detailed the many ways they tried to hire qualified staff and said it’s a regional issue that there aren’t enough qualified staff. How are they supposed to serve all these people in a high risk, niche sport without qualified instructors? And yes they should have a standard for qualified instructors.

We are faced with anecdotes from highly biased benefactors of the program vs what parks staff are portraying. I’m left wondering…why would they lie about this? You think they are having a good time right now being bombarded with this level of grief. So the actual scenario is they tanked the gymnastics program because they don’t care and then as a big finale they proposed this reduction to get widely abused and insulted. Does that sound rational?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many of us are repeating what Parks said. They detailed the many ways they tried to hire qualified staff and said it’s a regional issue that there aren’t enough qualified staff. How are they supposed to serve all these people in a high risk, niche sport without qualified instructors? And yes they should have a standard for qualified instructors.

We are faced with anecdotes from highly biased benefactors of the program vs what parks staff are portraying. I’m left wondering…why would they lie about this? You think they are having a good time right now being bombarded with this level of grief. So the actual scenario is they tanked the gymnastics program because they don’t care and then as a big finale they proposed this reduction to get widely abused and insulted. Does that sound rational?

We were told they drastically underestimated the reaction.. so no, I don't think they realized the response. You can obviously choose to believe what you want, but yes, misinformation is coming out of DPR.

It's ok, you don't have to believe there is more to the story and you are welcome to start a anti gymnastics coalition. But you don't find out suspicious at all that they just want to close a building for 12 months with Zero public plan? Or that we have tried for 6 years for a MOU and kept getting told it was tied up? Or that we have been fighting for a year plus just to get lights replaced in the facility so the gym is safe? Or that the county refused to collect the fees that they asked us to collect for our meets? Or that the coaches asked to coach more and were told no? Or that highly qualified people apply and never get a call? Or that the team kids apply for the summer and never get contacted? Or that their list of comparable gyms included gyms that aren't even the same sport?

To be clear we were told by the county that we (the parents) need to put in the work to and give them data and solutions because they don't have resources to fully evaluate everything.

This county is amazing and we are lucky to live here and there are many great people that work for the county and I am very grateful for them. That doesn't mean the public story is always the the most accurate version of events and it certainly doesn't mean mismanagement isn't a possibility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many of us are repeating what Parks said. They detailed the many ways they tried to hire qualified staff and said it’s a regional issue that there aren’t enough qualified staff. How are they supposed to serve all these people in a high risk, niche sport without qualified instructors? And yes they should have a standard for qualified instructors.

We are faced with anecdotes from highly biased benefactors of the program vs what parks staff are portraying. I’m left wondering…why would they lie about this? You think they are having a good time right now being bombarded with this level of grief. So the actual scenario is they tanked the gymnastics program because they don’t care and then as a big finale they proposed this reduction to get widely abused and insulted. Does that sound rational?

If this was such an issue and has been for so long, why wasn't it ever communicated?

[Anonymous]

Also I dont think we are insulting them. The board has gone out of their way to say that the discourse has been respectful.

[Anonymous]

This entire thread has lots of insults. I guess it’s easier when it’s anonymous.

I can’t even believe they would have not seen this reaction coming. The rest of it ok maybe they mismanaged. But anyone who has been in Arlington for any amount of time knows how these things roll and this would start holy hell on the scale of APS Boundary Wars.