Canceling $10k of student loan debt is stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I paid my loans back like a responsible adult. Everyone else can do the same.

So much ahole entitlement mentality these days. This country is going down the toilet.

First it is $10k. Then they'll demand $20k. Then it's $40k. When does it end? What does forgiveness actually do to control costs of college? 5 years from now when you have another generation of whiny ass borrowers, what's going to stop them from demanding another round of forgiveness?

It never ends. Why don't you forgive my mortgage while you are at it? People who didn't take out loans or who paid their back also deserve something.

m

I agree with you. I am a lifelong Democrat. I am also responsible, and despite being born dirt poor, I paid all of my student loans back before I saved even a dollar or bought anything for myself.

This is usually how someone describes themselves when mommy and daddy actually provided lots of help with tuition and down payment.

[Anonymous]

Truly the TL;DR of this thread is “I got mine, so screw anybody else who complains.”

As someone who paid off her loans, I’m happy that people are getting relief. We have systemic problems. But to ignore that whole swaths of people are getting screwed over in this deal is mind boggling - the student who starts school this fall, the person who pays off their debt, taxpayers, universities who have no accountability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nanny again- with that $10k, I could go to a trades school and it would change my life.

Take out a student loan, go to school, apply for loan forgiveness. That’s how it works.

Nobody is sending checks to students.

This is a one time thing. Future students don't get any forgiveness that I've heard of.

That is so f'king unfair

Agree. This is NOT the way to do any kind of loan forgiveness. I'm a true dem, and this has the stink of vote-buying to me. Any kind of loan forgiveness/educational assistance program needs to be something that is planned out far in advance and has a long trajectory. Something that people can use to plan. It's galling to think that if we had taken a loan on June 30th for my freshman's tuition or room/board, we'd be getting free money. But, if we are paying for it outright with income or savings, or even a home equity loan... then we are out of luck. Lucky-windfalls are NOT the way government programs should work.

I would MUCH prefer that the gov. spend money on making community college free, or certain degrees free (i.e. bachelors/associate in child development free if you work in a daycare setting for 5 yrs.; teachers degrees free if you work in education for 5 or 10 yrs), etc. Use gov. funds to train people for careers that we need. Pay off college loans after 10 yrs. (up to $XXXX), etc.

This doesn't feel right.

Young people were struggling with student loans long before the pandemic. You can talk about punishing students all you want since they are the easiest target but none of us are going to willingly start repayment during inflation while schools continue to charge absurd amounts. We definitely aren't going to start paying these loans for more progressive wishful thinking on how to solve problems.

I know...I paid off $70,000 in student loans BEFORE we had kids. That was a choice to prioritize paying off debts before taking on more expenses (kids).

I don't have a problem with forgiving debt after paying on the debt for X yrs. Or targetting loan forgiveness to certain low-paying, but necessary careers.

Just handing out loan forgiveness to everyone without having a long-term policy -- that's not good government. And it will come back to bite dems when the repubs are in power and decide to do something similar with a more targetted (less palatable) group. This isn't right and I hope it fails in a lawsuit. And I only vote blue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Truly the TL;DR of this thread is “I got mine, so screw anybody else who complains.”

As someone who paid off her loans, I’m happy that people are getting relief. We have systemic problems. But to ignore that whole swaths of people are getting screwed over in this deal is mind boggling - the student who starts school this fall, the person who pays off their debt, taxpayers, universities who have no accountability.

The student that starts this fall benefits from much improved income based repayment programs that have WAY better terms than what prior students experienced. That's the real game-changer in this deal. Congress needs to address college affordability; Biden can't do it with an executive order. And taxpayers pay for all sorts of benefits they don't individually accrue--funding to support indebted LMC/MC folks is just not high on my list of the ways I'm being "screwed"-- they will fuel the economy if they have less debt.

[Anonymous]

To the poster with an income of $62,000 and student debt of $35,000 that was paid off in three years; You did it right. Your student loan debt totaled less than one year of take home pay.

The student loan debtors with real problems owe more than one year of gross salary. This occurred with a lot of law students who finished law schools during a 5 year recession period in the legal field. Many took out loans of well over $100,000 expecting to land a job paying anywhere from $120,000 to $160,000 plus bonus about 10 years ago. Many could not get a position as an attorney & had to work at gross salaries equal to just 50% of their student loan debt. Minimum payments (based on their income) resulted in a growing loan balance due to compound interest.

Law schools sent out very misleading literature regarding legal job placements and earnings. At least a few law students were sued by former students (I recall one against New York Law School--NOT NYU). Ultimately, the case was dismissed, but many believe that the case had merit.

I think that for 5 or 6 years legal employment came to a near standstill and large law firms started farming out routine legal matters to India. When the legal market picked up, many layers had already missed out on any real opportunity in biglaw at biglaw salaries. Debt grew to $200,000 and even much higher.

Unfortunately, law school are viewed as cash cows by many universities. Student loans were not limited to $27,000 or so as they were for undergrads. Without any chance of bankruptcy discharge, lenders lent without collateral, credit checks, or any other standard credit lending safeguards for this large unsecured debt. In fact, law grads without out-of-control debt can be denied clearance to sit for a bar exam or to join some state bars.

Legal journals reported lots of incidents regarding potential suicide situations.

Too many liberal arts majors who thought that law school would be the path to a lucrative career.

An organization called law school transparency was born out of this financial mess. LST gets law schools to share real data regarding employment of their law graduates. Law schools lied & massaged figures for marketing purposes and for US News rankings that mislead many of their customers--law students--and prospective customers.

Law school transparency is the product of several Vanderbilt law students and Vanderbilt law school graduates.

Medical school student debt is a much different situation as doctors have remained in high demand with fairly predictable salaries. Nevertheless, many end up with debt above $300,000--even to $400,000. Repayment often takes 20 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To the poster with an income of $62,000 and student debt of $35,000 that was paid off in three years; You did it right. Your student loan debt totaled less than one year of take home pay.

The student loan debtors with real problems owe more than one year of gross salary. This occurred with a lot of law students who finished law schools during a 5 year recession period in the legal field. Many took out loans of well over $100,000 expecting to land a job paying anywhere from $120,000 to $160,000 plus bonus about 10 years ago. Many could not get a position as an attorney & had to work at gross salaries equal to just 50% of their student loan debt. Minimum payments (based on their income) resulted in a growing loan balance due to compound interest.

Law schools sent out very misleading literature regarding legal job placements and earnings. At least a few law students were sued by former students (I recall one against New York Law School--NOT NYU). Ultimately, the case was dismissed, but many believe that the case had merit.

I think that for 5 or 6 years legal employment came to a near standstill and large law firms started farming out routine legal matters to India. When the legal market picked up, many layers had already missed out on any real opportunity in biglaw at biglaw salaries. Debt grew to $200,000 and even much higher.

Unfortunately, law school are viewed as cash cows by many universities. Student loans were not limited to $27,000 or so as they were for undergrads. Without any chance of bankruptcy discharge, lenders lent without collateral, credit checks, or any other standard credit lending safeguards for this large unsecured debt. In fact, law grads without out-of-control debt can be denied clearance to sit for a bar exam or to join some state bars.

Legal journals reported lots of incidents regarding potential suicide situations.

Too many liberal arts majors who thought that law school would be the path to a lucrative career.

An organization called law school transparency was born out of this financial mess. LST gets law schools to share real data regarding employment of their law graduates. Law schools lied & massaged figures for marketing purposes and for US News rankings that mislead many of their customers--law students--and prospective customers.

Law school transparency is the product of several Vanderbilt law students and Vanderbilt law school graduates.

Medical school student debt is a much different situation as doctors have remained in high demand with fairly predictable salaries. Nevertheless, many end up with debt above $300,000--even to $400,000. Repayment often takes 20 years.

Unfortunately, I did not proofread my post prior to posting. ( Doing multiple tasks.) There are two obvious errors. Should read: "law grads with out-of-control debt" and earlier "At least a few law schools (NOT students) were sued...."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nanny again- with that $10k, I could go to a trades school and it would change my life.

Take out a student loan, go to school, apply for loan forgiveness. That’s how it works.

Nobody is sending checks to students.

This is a one time thing. Future students don't get any forgiveness that I've heard of.

That is so f'king unfair

Agree. This is NOT the way to do any kind of loan forgiveness. I'm a true dem, and this has the stink of vote-buying to me. Any kind of loan forgiveness/educational assistance program needs to be something that is planned out far in advance and has a long trajectory. Something that people can use to plan. It's galling to think that if we had taken a loan on June 30th for my freshman's tuition or room/board, we'd be getting free money. But, if we are paying for it outright with income or savings, or even a home equity loan... then we are out of luck. Lucky-windfalls are NOT the way government programs should work.

I would MUCH prefer that the gov. spend money on making community college free, or certain degrees free (i.e. bachelors/associate in child development free if you work in a daycare setting for 5 yrs.; teachers degrees free if you work in education for 5 or 10 yrs), etc. Use gov. funds to train people for careers that we need. Pay off college loans after 10 yrs. (up to $XXXX), etc.

This doesn't feel right.

[b]Young people were struggling with student loans long before the pandemic. You can talk about punishing students all you want since they are the easiest target but none of us are going to willingly start repayment during inflation while schools continue to charge absurd amounts. We definitely aren't going to start paying these loans for more progressive wishful thinking on how to solve problems.

I know...I paid off $70,000 in student loans BEFORE we had kids. That was a choice to prioritize paying off debts before taking on more expenses (kids).

I don't have a problem with forgiving debt after paying on the debt for X yrs. Or targetting loan forgiveness to certain low-paying, but necessary careers.

Just handing out loan forgiveness to everyone without having a long-term policy -- that's not good government. And it will come back to bite dems when the repubs are in power and decide to do something similar with a more targetted (less palatable) group. This isn't right and I hope it fails in a lawsuit. And I only vote blue.

You mean like giving a tax cut to the top 1%?

I kinda doubt that will come as a shock. They do it every time they get in power.

[Anonymous]

We wouldn't have so much student loan debt in the US if secondary educators and society as a whole didn't vilify trades and other skilled labor jobs. There's such a stigma attached to not going to college. It's starting to break with Gen Z but it will probably be at least another 10-15 years before there's a major reversal with fewer fresh graduates opting for college. And during that time two things will continue: birth rates in the US will continue to decline and new homeownership for first-time homebuyers will continue to decline.

Not every corporate job requires a college degree to execute its duties, but today nearly all corporate jobs listed put a higher preference on candidates with a degree. My office listed the receptionist vacancy with a "B.A. or B.S. preferred." GTFO. That's nonsense. My niece was having trouble finding a job leading up to her college graduation in May. The entry-level positions wanted someone with 2+ years of experience. Again, that's nonsense. Entry level means suitable for a beginner!

[Anonymous]

This student loan debt cancellation does nothing to address the root problem: high cost of education.
College tuitions follow the basic supply and demand laws of economic.
As long as people will be willing to pay 40k+ a year for stupid college degrees, cost will continue to rise.

When the price is high, demand has to drop to push prices down.
People need to stop wasting hundred of thousand of $$ on stupid degrees that do not even pay decent living wages.
There are many alternatives to traditional college paths.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This student loan debt cancellation does nothing to address the root problem: high cost of education.
College tuitions follow the basic supply and demand laws of economic.
As long as people will be willing to pay 40k+ a year for stupid college degrees, cost will continue to rise.

When the price is high, demand has to drop to push prices down.
People need to stop wasting hundred of thousand of $$ on stupid degrees that do not even pay decent living wages.
There are many alternatives to traditional college paths.

Agree. Many base arguments against liberal arts educations based on your line of thought.

The current situation of runaway college costs could be addressed in large part--not completely--by a simple change in the bankruptcy laws that would once again make student loans a dischargeable debt. This will lessen the flow of money available to pay unreasonable amounts for a college degree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nanny again- with that $10k, I could go to a trades school and it would change my life.

Take out a student loan, go to school, apply for loan forgiveness. That’s how it works.

Nobody is sending checks to students.

This is a one time thing. Future students don't get any forgiveness that I've heard of.

That is so f'king unfair

Agree. This is NOT the way to do any kind of loan forgiveness. I'm a true dem, and this has the stink of vote-buying to me. Any kind of loan forgiveness/educational assistance program needs to be something that is planned out far in advance and has a long trajectory. Something that people can use to plan. It's galling to think that if we had taken a loan on June 30th for my freshman's tuition or room/board, we'd be getting free money. But, if we are paying for it outright with income or savings, or even a home equity loan... then we are out of luck. Lucky-windfalls are NOT the way government programs should work.

I would MUCH prefer that the gov. spend money on making community college free, or certain degrees free (i.e. bachelors/associate in child development free if you work in a daycare setting for 5 yrs.; teachers degrees free if you work in education for 5 or 10 yrs), etc. Use gov. funds to train people for careers that we need. Pay off college loans after 10 yrs. (up to $XXXX), etc.

This doesn't feel right.

[b]Young people were struggling with student loans long before the pandemic. You can talk about punishing students all you want since they are the easiest target but none of us are going to willingly start repayment during inflation while schools continue to charge absurd amounts. We definitely aren't going to start paying these loans for more progressive wishful thinking on how to solve problems.

I know...I paid off $70,000 in student loans BEFORE we had kids. That was a choice to prioritize paying off debts before taking on more expenses (kids).

I don't have a problem with forgiving debt after paying on the debt for X yrs. Or targetting loan forgiveness to certain low-paying, but necessary careers.

Just handing out loan forgiveness to everyone without having a long-term policy -- that's not good government. And it will come back to bite dems when the repubs are in power and decide to do something similar with a more targetted (less palatable) group. This isn't right and I hope it fails in a lawsuit. And I only vote blue.

You mean like giving a tax cut to the top 1%?

I kinda doubt that will come as a shock. They do it every time they get in power.

Or like giving millions of dollars in PPP loans to evangelical churches and then forgiving them? Already done!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This student loan debt cancellation does nothing to address the root problem: high cost of education.
College tuitions follow the basic supply and demand laws of economic.
As long as people will be willing to pay 40k+ a year for stupid college degrees, cost will continue to rise.

When the price is high, demand has to drop to push prices down.
People need to stop wasting hundred of thousand of $$ on stupid degrees that do not even pay decent living wages.
There are many alternatives to traditional college paths.

Agree. Many base arguments against liberal arts educations based on your line of thought.

The current situation of runaway college costs could be addressed in large part--not completely--by a simple change in the bankruptcy laws that would once again make student loans a dischargeable debt. This will lessen the flow of money available to pay unreasonable amounts for a college degree.

Biden's changes to Income Based Repayment already do this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This student loan debt cancellation does nothing to address the root problem: high cost of education.
College tuitions follow the basic supply and demand laws of economic.
As long as people will be willing to pay 40k+ a year for stupid college degrees, cost will continue to rise.

When the price is high, demand has to drop to push prices down.
People need to stop wasting hundred of thousand of $$ on stupid degrees that do not even pay decent living wages.
There are many alternatives to traditional college paths.

Agree. Many base arguments against liberal arts educations based on your line of thought.

The current situation of runaway college costs could be addressed in large part--not completely--by a simple change in the bankruptcy laws that would once again make student loans a dischargeable debt. This will lessen the flow of money available to pay unreasonable amounts for a college degree.

Biden's changes to Income Based Repayment already do this.

I do not understand your thought. How does a lowering of the minimum IBR amount amend the bankruptcy laws or affect the flow of money from lenders to college students ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nanny again- with that $10k, I could go to a trades school and it would change my life.

Take out a student loan, go to school, apply for loan forgiveness. That’s how it works.

Nobody is sending checks to students.

This is a one time thing. Future students don't get any forgiveness that I've heard of.

That is so f'king unfair

Agree. This is NOT the way to do any kind of loan forgiveness. I'm a true dem, and this has the stink of vote-buying to me. Any kind of loan forgiveness/educational assistance program needs to be something that is planned out far in advance and has a long trajectory. Something that people can use to plan. It's galling to think that if we had taken a loan on June 30th for my freshman's tuition or room/board, we'd be getting free money. But, if we are paying for it outright with income or savings, or even a home equity loan... then we are out of luck. Lucky-windfalls are NOT the way government programs should work.

I would MUCH prefer that the gov. spend money on making community college free, or certain degrees free (i.e. bachelors/associate in child development free if you work in a daycare setting for 5 yrs.; teachers degrees free if you work in education for 5 or 10 yrs), etc. Use gov. funds to train people for careers that we need. Pay off college loans after 10 yrs. (up to $XXXX), etc.

This doesn't feel right.

Young people were struggling with student loans long before the pandemic. You can talk about punishing students all you want since they are the easiest target but none of us are going to willingly start repayment during inflation while schools continue to charge absurd amounts. We definitely aren't going to start paying these loans for more progressive wishful thinking on how to solve problems.

And what about those graduating next year? Screw them? You got yours?

[Anonymous]

Listening to KJP today trying to explain the legal justification for this policy and the economics of it was pure magic. It was a trip through time and space far away from the shackles of logic and mathematics. I’m going to rewatch it tomorrow night and crack open a great Pinot.