terrorist attack in Paris

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01/09/2015 11:04

Subject: Re:terrorist attack in Paris

quote

Anonymous

Anonymous wrote:and another two people have joined in and are holding hostages in a Jewish deli.

This really sounds like there was a plan to initiate the murders and hostage taking all at once or in a certain time frame. This just doesn't sound coincidental.

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01/09/2015 11:07

Subject: terrorist attack in Paris

quote

Anonymous

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So ultimately what's the lesson learned here?

Lesson I take from Paris massacre is not that we need more racist cartoons. We need less bigotry and to close widening gaps among people. - Ali Abunimah

then you did not learn much. learning not to kill people who simply express opinions you find bigoted, racist and offensive would be a good start (and that there is not "they are wrong but" for the people who did it)

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01/09/2015 11:10

Subject: terrorist attack in Paris

quote

Anonymous

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So ultimately what's the lesson learned here?

Lesson I take from Paris massacre is not that we need more racist cartoons. We need less bigotry and to close widening gaps among people. - Ali Abunimah

then you did not learn much. learning not to kill people who simply express opinions you find bigoted, racist and offensive would be a good start (and that there is not "they are wrong but" for the people who did it)

+1000

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01/09/2015 11:14

Subject: Re:terrorist attack in Paris

quote

Anonymous

shots fired

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01/09/2015 11:14

Subject: Re:terrorist attack in Paris

quote

Anonymous

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Swedish-american here. I think it is crossing the line to display these images publicly. I am not muslim--but I find such disregard for their religion and culture highly offensive. The French people are completely tone deaf and arrogant wrt to their treatment of minorities in their countries. They are hiding behind the cloak of "free press" and it is outrageous. And yes, I'm aware that Scandinavian countries are as bad on this issue if not worse.

I am from Europe and I realize that for Americans may be difficult to understand how people in Europe may have a different approach. Americans are way more prude (and this explains why some posters said that the cartoons were X-rated - while they are certainly not for young kids, and are provocative and may be considered offensive by many even in Europe, in Europe they are not considered porn stuff. they would not fly in the US, but you need to understand that they published in France not in Montana - here people fainted when a nipple was seen for 0,5 seconds on national TV during the superbowl, in Europe nobody would have noticed, no right or wrong simply a different sensibility). also, it seems that somehow Americans have internalized and accepted the type of censorship that the Islamic terrorists were trying to impose on CH and on European press in general, and this may explain, in addition to fear, the reason why the cartoons were not widely published in the US, even the first time around. you talk a lot about freedom of speech and expression, but the truth is that your newspapers shy away from satire about religions, not just Islam but also Christianity. after all, you elected an AA president, but would you ever have elected an admitted atheist? in my coutry nobody has to get the photo take with the prund family leaving Sunday service as part of a political campaign, religion is considered a personal matter and electing an atheist is totally normal. there are profoundly religious people in Europe, there are atheists, agnostics and whatever but mocking religion, any religion is accepted. tons of people don't like it (catholic groups sued CH many many times and always lost) but so far radical Islamists are the ones who reacted with violence. this is why was so important what CH and other magazines did in Europe, they tried to resist against the imposition of a censorship that you Americans have simply accepted and embraced. this same battle has been waged against the Catholic church before, there were times when publishing cartoons or anything else offensive to the church could result in death or imprisonment, and against the political establishment (CH, at that time under published under another name, was banned by the French government decades ago for a cover deemed offensive of Charles de Gaulle). the issues with radical Islamists is that they live in Europe but do not want to accept the rules by which people live there. if you don;t like a cartoon, sue the magazine and if you lose then move on with your life the cartoon can be published. what happened is a tragedy because radical Islam is trying to put a muzzle on our freedom of speech and expression and they are succeeding because not that many people are willing to die for a cartoon. this is why I really admire the CH cartoonists and all others who did not bow.

I am European as well, and I don't think you understand Americans very well -- and I think you are probably slightly oblivious to the rise of Xenophobia and the treatment of minorities in Europe.

I agree with PP. I have lived in Europe for several years and I am amazed at how overtly racist France, and other countries, are. There's no real discourse on prejudice in the same way there is in the US. Which is why in the US we don't parody people by exaggerating their physical features in cartoons -- we have actually talked about it and the vast majority of Americans recognize that caricature drawings are offensive and don't add to the "joke." And we do satire all the time -- we just know better than to generalize about whole races and cultures.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/hijackers-surprised-to-find-selves-in-hell,1445/

I love how Americans who live in de facto segregated communities, send their kids to de facto segregated schools, don't see a problem with white men hounding down and shooting unarmed black kids, stand by idly as minority voting rights are eroded but occasionally do take-out Chinese in the name of diversity like to pontificate about racism in other countries. But discourse away, my friend.

There's plenty of racism here, but it's nothing NOTHING compared to France.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/7786349/French-admit-they-are-racist.html

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01/09/2015 11:15

Subject: terrorist attack in Paris

quote

Anonymous

Looks like they are taking them down right now and its live on tv.

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01/09/2015 11:16

Subject: Re:terrorist attack in Paris

quote

Anonymous

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Swedish-american here. I think it is crossing the line to display these images publicly. I am not muslim--but I find such disregard for their religion and culture highly offensive. The French people are completely tone deaf and arrogant wrt to their treatment of minorities in their countries. They are hiding behind the cloak of "free press" and it is outrageous. And yes, I'm aware that Scandinavian countries are as bad on this issue if not worse.

I completely agree. My brother is living in Paris right now and I am scared to death for him. He has a very obvious Muslim name and there is currently a lot of backlash because of the Charlie Hebdo thing. Yesterday, in France a pregnant Muslim woman was attacked by men who pulled her hijab off asking her to take that *** off and beat her up while she was screaming that she was pregnant, she lost the baby. Mosques were also vandalized along with Arab businesses and a car belonging to a middle eastern family was shot at. Unless we start having honest conversations about the underlying issues, this will never get resolved.

This heinous act is intolerable, and I'm hoping those who did will be punished severely.

That said, I think it is the height of irresponsibility on your part to infer that this incident happened yesterday (it happened 6/18/13) as a result of Charlie Hebdo. Additionally, your referring to a massacre as "the Charlie Hebdo thing" is condescending and sounds more like an inconvenience than what it is which is an execution.

However, as we have repeatedly pointed out, it's about free speech even if one of your statements is partially untrue.

I read it yesterday, didn't know it happened in June. It was a link under another article about mosques being vandalized. The is another one that happened in August of 2014 and a 3rd one after that. The fact that they happened even before the CH attack shows the climate in France.

Yea, free speech after all, don't read too much about the CH "thing", really it is not that serious and I won't write a paragraph about the use of the word "thing", I am in no way minimizing or dismissing what happened!

And one could say there are numerous examples of attacks on Jews and Christians, in addition to attacks on Muslims, not just in France but around the world (including Muslim on Muslim attacks). Let's just call it like it is. There is way to much violence and no one group has a monopoly on being the recipients of horrific behavior.

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01/09/2015 11:18

Subject: terrorist attack in Paris

quote

Anonymous

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So ultimately what's the lesson learned here?

Lesson I take from Paris massacre is not that we need more racist cartoons. We need less bigotry and to close widening gaps among people. - Ali Abunimah

then you did not learn much. learning not to kill people who simply express opinions you find bigoted, racist and offensive would be a good start (and that there is not "they are wrong but" for the people who did it)

+1000