Where are the EXPERIENCED Teachers in DC????

[Anonymous]

I've been a DCUM reader for several years. I've noted that a few parents point to 'young' teachers as a selling point of sorts when discussing schools (usually elementary and middle schools). Then recently, I've been in the schools to see that yeah, there's a lot of youthfulness. That's not a bad thing in and of itself, but I can't help but wonder WHERE ARE THE EXPERIENCED TEACHERS???

As a parent (last DC just went off to college), I found that the older teachers were...dare I say...the best during my children's tenure. I mean, teachers who were near retirement with close to 30 years of experience. Even at the elementary school level, I found them to be the best educators. The young teachers were not bad at all, but the experience those teachers brought was invaluable. We can't discount the maternal factor either. Older teachers who were mothers and grandmothers by the time my children had them were better about everything from disbursing (or not) medication, advising best ways to deal with academic issues at home, were full of helpful antecdotes, etc. The younger teachers went strictly by whatever textbook they'd read and shrugged their shoulders a lot on issues that could not be resolved by looking in a book or talking to their equally clueless counterparts.

One friend of mine often finds herself questioning the expertise of younger teachers which I've heard from a few teachers comes across as being condescending (which she usually is). The truth is that not only are experienced teachers more likely to know their stuff, but you really don't have much room to question someone with 20+ years of experiences. You know they've seen the gamut and can't possibly just be making stuff up. They're also obviously in it for the long haul and take the profession seriously.

Again this is not to bash young teachers. My children have had both--first year teachers and teachers who were about to retire. I'm just curious about what seems to be a leaning towards them in DC by parents(?) and hiring principals(?). Or are experienced teachers just choosing not to go into DC, to spend their golden years of work in peace?

It's baffling to me.

[Anonymous]

And can we be real about the fact that young, optimistic educators have done little to turn it all around in DC. We started the out with the old in with the new 10-15 years ago (when Kaya first came to town with Teach for America). Yet we're still here.

In my time it's been older, more experienced teachers that I've seen go in and turn around test scores for their grades/classes. There's something to be said for experienced teachers.

[Anonymous]

How do you expect younger teachers to get experience? Experienced teachers don't just pop out of the ground.

[Anonymous]

I believe research shows the best teachers are those that have been teaching for more than a few years.....but not more than like 10. The sweet spot may be like 5-9 or something but I can't really remember. It's google-able.

[Anonymous]

SWS

[Anonymous]

When my 3 yr old was having developmental issues, the younger textbook teachers kept commenting that there was a developmental issue. That I needed to have him evaluated. And then he was dismissed from preschool.

I contacted a preschool that I knew had older teachers. More grandmotherly than anything else. They observed him, calmed my fears, and assured me that everything was fine. They had more tricks up there sleeve and had seen it all before. 2 yrs later we are off to K with no hint of an issue.

[Anonymous]

Interesting question and observation but, as always, beware of generalizations... In our eight year tenure in DCPS, I've truly seen both: the "experienced" teacher using archaic disciplinary methods, from throwing erasers and keys at students to degrading punishments, to doing whatever suits their fancy when it comes to teaching: Screw the plan that means for long divisions to be introduced in 4th grade, once foundational skills are mastered, let's learn how to do in 2nd by heart so they "know" by 4th, with absolutely no plan, just winging it. But I've also seen many truly skilled experienced teachers who have that spark and charisma, maybe not every year because they've seen it all, but mostly. The best of them have been able to embrace new methods such as quitting the eternal tracing letters and numbers as an early morning exercise, switching from line paper to construction paper for book reports in early elementary, and getting young kids out of their seats and onto the floor for circle time. Even the good ones however, aren't the ones accompanying students to science fairs outside the classroom and pitching in with afterschool activities and clubs. Neither are they the first to try out new methods and approaches and rarely those who know how to help out a novice. They often keep to the bare minimum of what is asked of them, though they do that well. I cherish that but our schools would be a sad place if that's all we had.
I must say the spectrum of young teachers has not been quite that wide, not from what I've seen. Even the clueless came with methods and a willingness to follow a script and a plan, which I think - in and of itself - is worth a lot in a context where students switch schools a lot and depend on building a predictable set of skills every year. Yes, I've seen the novice breaking down in tears because of challenges managing a rowdy classroom (and demanding parents on top of that). Although some of them have learned to differentiate a classroom, they lack a veteran's eyes in the back of their head to follow through. But I've also seen excellent young teachers get the hang of that as if it were second nature to them and bring an unparalleled energy and commitment to the classroom, one they can't possibly keep up over the long haul by the way.

So don't generalize. What I want to know is where the consistently good teachers are, whether they stay, and whether those who have something to learn get the mentorship and support they need. And I can't say I'm sorry that the stuff throwing and nothing but yelling "experienced" teacher has been let go.

[Anonymous]

Some experienced teachers with there higher salaries were IMPACTed out. DCPS does not seem to have many principals with over 20 years of experience.

[Anonymous]

Many of these experienced teachers are burnt out and leave to go to another district or leave the teaching profession all together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Interesting question and observation but, as always, beware of generalizations... In our eight year tenure in DCPS, I've truly seen both: the "experienced" teacher using archaic disciplinary methods, from throwing erasers and keys at students to degrading punishments, to doing whatever suits their fancy when it comes to teaching: Screw the plan that means for long divisions to be introduced in 4th grade, once foundational skills are mastered, let's learn how to do in 2nd by heart so they "know" by 4th, with absolutely no plan, just winging it. But I've also seen many truly skilled experienced teachers who have that spark and charisma, maybe not every year because they've seen it all, but mostly. The best of them have been able to embrace new methods such as quitting the eternal tracing letters and numbers as an early morning exercise, switching from line paper to construction paper for book reports in early elementary, and getting young kids out of their seats and onto the floor for circle time. Even the good ones however, aren't the ones accompanying students to science fairs outside the classroom and pitching in with afterschool activities and clubs. Neither are they the first to try out new methods and approaches and rarely those who know how to help out a novice. They often keep to the bare minimum of what is asked of them, though they do that well. I cherish that but our schools would be a sad place if that's all we had.
I must say the spectrum of young teachers has not been quite that wide, not from what I've seen. Even the clueless came with methods and a willingness to follow a script and a plan, which I think - in and of itself - is worth a lot in a context where students switch schools a lot and depend on building a predictable set of skills every year. Yes, I've seen the novice breaking down in tears because of challenges managing a rowdy classroom (and demanding parents on top of that). Although some of them have learned to differentiate a classroom, they lack a veteran's eyes in the back of their head to follow through. But I've also seen excellent young teachers get the hang of that as if it were second nature to them and bring an unparalleled energy and commitment to the classroom, one they can't possibly keep up over the long haul by the way.

So don't generalize. What I want to know is where the consistently good teachers are, whether they stay, and whether those who have something to learn get the mentorship and support they need. And I can't say I'm sorry that the stuff throwing and nothing but yelling "experienced" teacher has been let go.

Throwing erasers? Okay, experienced or not, that's just a bad teacher who lacks control and commonsense.

And I don't think there was huge generalizing--other than that DC seems to have more younger, inexperienced teachers than experienced ones...something that can be proved or disproven with data. The point was made that some young teachers are great. There just seems to be a serious disregard or ignorance of what experienced teachers (can) bring to the table in DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some experienced teachers with there higher salaries were IMPACTed out. DCPS does not seem to have many principals with over 20 years of experience.

This is sad because this is what neighborhood schools need. Part of the appeal of the neighborhood school is that Mr. Crabapple has been there forever and the principal knew my father and would get him on the phone in a heartbeat if I ever showed up in his office because of silliness.

I realize DC is a different type of place in terms of its transiency, but even incoming families will find schools without a bunch of burn and churn appealing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How do you expect younger teachers to get experience? Experienced teachers don't just pop out of the ground.

Of course the new teacher fresh out of college needs a job. But the school shouldn't be filled to the hilt with new teachers and just one or two veterans in the mix.

I've seen new teachers (yes, some from TFA or similar programs) do amazing jobs with difficult populations, but they just didn't have the same level of expertise and were not able to move student achievement (test scores) in the way veterans did. Of course, it was just the 1st year in the classroom so I wasn't expecting miracles. A year or two later, most of those teachers are gone--most off to professional schools. The classroom was just a pit stop on the way to something better. But I truly appreciate and respect the job they did while they were in the classroom for that one year (no exaggeration on the one year). Still it would be great to see people who are COMMITTED to education in the classrooms. Why do disadvantaged students always have to be the guinea pigs?

[Anonymous]

The era of the veteran teacher is gone. You will not have 10-20 year vets anymore. Many of us come into teaching wanting to stay- but end up wanting more autonomy and upward mobility.

Teaching is an amazing profession but also very draining. You are constantly on the front lines and it can be exhausting.

[Anonymous]

Brent has a good mix of new teachers vs. Experienced teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:SWS

+1. They are all at SWS.