More skills based grading at madison hs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And change.org petition to expand it to all FCPS high schools. I can't wait to see all the parents and teachers sign on that sign on and their reasons for it benefitting students. Let me guess. It let's my child spend more time on his college football prospects. It let's my child come have more time to babysit their siblings. It let's me have more time at home with my family so that I don't have to grade at home. There is not a single academic benefit to the system.

What makes you think teachers are in favor of this? Maybe some are, such as the instructional coaches whose bread and butter it is to force feed this stuff. Most of us have just been told we're switching and we're supposed to educate ourselves on our own time on how to do it correctly. I personally think that there is a difference between the kid who masters what I teach the first time around and the one who takes four tries and that should be reflected to some degree at least in their grades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, I asked 1 of the top students at Madison for thoughts on SBG: student said “I think it allows kids to slack off.” I asked a student in the middle for thoughts: “I love it. It allows me to relax and slack off. Every time I see that P and realize it doesn’t count, I just relax because I’m not going to do it.”

From a teacher after some students refused to work: I can’t make them do anything

It seems very logical to me why Madison was chosen as a good candidate for this experiment. Sports is very important to a large portion of students in the school and SBG allows them to focus more of their time there without being penalized for not turning in academic work. One might argue that those students will do badly on tests if they don't put in the effort on the assignments. However, if the curriculum is sufficiently watered down, those students will not necessarily need to do much work to get good grades. Students are happier to have time for their sports, more students who were previously failing get a chance to boost their grades, and the school system can show higher grade achievement across the board.

A significant portion of kids will now be conditioned to not do assigned work and to further believe they have learned a lot because they have gotten a good grade. They will then find in college that not all classes are created equal, and that some classes require doing the homework to attain a sufficient mastery of skills needed to well on the exams. In those classes, cramming or getting a tutor at the last minute will not allow them to attain understanding.

The problem of teaching students the value of work towards achieving a higher level of understanding, is now being passed off to colleges.

You don’t have a clue. Jmhs is NOT watered down and SBG doesn’t make grading easier.

On the contrary, little to no homework in many classes is strong evidence of being watered down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, I asked 1 of the top students at Madison for thoughts on SBG: student said “I think it allows kids to slack off.” I asked a student in the middle for thoughts: “I love it. It allows me to relax and slack off. Every time I see that P and realize it doesn’t count, I just relax because I’m not going to do it.”

From a teacher after some students refused to work: I can’t make them do anything

It seems very logical to me why Madison was chosen as a good candidate for this experiment. Sports is very important to a large portion of students in the school and SBG allows them to focus more of their time there without being penalized for not turning in academic work. One might argue that those students will do badly on tests if they don't put in the effort on the assignments. However, if the curriculum is sufficiently watered down, those students will not necessarily need to do much work to get good grades. Students are happier to have time for their sports, more students who were previously failing get a chance to boost their grades, and the school system can show higher grade achievement across the board.

A significant portion of kids will now be conditioned to not do assigned work and to further believe they have learned a lot because they have gotten a good grade. They will then find in college that not all classes are created equal, and that some classes require doing the homework to attain a sufficient mastery of skills needed to well on the exams. In those classes, cramming or getting a tutor at the last minute will not allow them to attain understanding.

The problem of teaching students the value of work towards achieving a higher level of understanding, is now being passed off to colleges.

You don’t have a clue. Jmhs is NOT watered down and SBG doesn’t make grading easier.

On the contrary, little to no homework in many classes is strong evidence of being watered down.

DP. I don't know about JMHS, but homework is functionally never graded for accuracy. It's supposed to be an opportunity to practice. Keys are available for students to check their work and it's graded on completion (which means that many students just copy the key and don't learn anything anyway until they have to take a quiz or test.
OTOH, I think SBG allows a huge number of retakes (unlimited?) so an enormous amount of extra work for teachers.

[Anonymous]

All I know is that the instruction and learning is going downhill. There are probably many reasons but SBG is one of them.

[Anonymous]

I asked my kids tonight what they think. They said:

- grades are much worse overall this year
- zero retakes
- it encourages kids to not do well

Much worse.

[Anonymous]

Jmhs parent - I was thinking that teachers must love SBG because it’s much less work for them. They don’t have to offer retakes and most don’t even bother with grading practices. They just mark them “submitted “ and then “not for grading” - so if teachers are not grading them why would the students even study for a quiz before a test? Or be motivated to really learn the material (ie practice for mastery before the test)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Jmhs parent - I was thinking that teachers must love SBG because it’s much less work for them. They don’t have to offer retakes and most don’t even bother with grading practices. They just mark them “submitted “ and then “not for grading” - so if teachers are not grading them why would the students even study for a quiz before a test? Or be motivated to really learn the material (ie practice for mastery before the test)?

Sorry this should say JMHS parent here - meaning my kid is impacted and I know what I’m talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, I asked 1 of the top students at Madison for thoughts on SBG: student said “I think it allows kids to slack off.” I asked a student in the middle for thoughts: “I love it. It allows me to relax and slack off. Every time I see that P and realize it doesn’t count, I just relax because I’m not going to do it.”

From a teacher after some students refused to work: I can’t make them do anything

It seems very logical to me why Madison was chosen as a good candidate for this experiment. Sports is very important to a large portion of students in the school and SBG allows them to focus more of their time there without being penalized for not turning in academic work. One might argue that those students will do badly on tests if they don't put in the effort on the assignments. However, if the curriculum is sufficiently watered down, those students will not necessarily need to do much work to get good grades. Students are happier to have time for their sports, more students who were previously failing get a chance to boost their grades, and the school system can show higher grade achievement across the board.

A significant portion of kids will now be conditioned to not do assigned work and to further believe they have learned a lot because they have gotten a good grade. They will then find in college that not all classes are created equal, and that some classes require doing the homework to attain a sufficient mastery of skills needed to well on the exams. In those classes, cramming or getting a tutor at the last minute will not allow them to attain understanding.

The problem of teaching students the value of work towards achieving a higher level of understanding, is now being passed off to colleges.

You don’t have a clue. Jmhs is NOT watered down and SBG doesn’t make grading easier.

On the contrary, little to no homework in many classes is strong evidence of being watered down.

DP. I don't know about JMHS, but homework is functionally never graded for accuracy. It's supposed to be an opportunity to practice. Keys are available for students to check their work and it's graded on completion (which means that many students just copy the key and don't learn anything anyway until they have to take a quiz or test.
OTOH, I think SBG allows a huge number of retakes (unlimited?) so an enormous amount of extra work for teachers.

Not at my kid's traditional VA school. The teacher rolls a dice before every lesson that decides whether the homework is graded for completion or accuracy.
A flashcard is drawn with the name of a student and that student can set the odds for the dice from 1:5 to 5:1. Kids started the school year mostly going 5:1 for completion, but recently many go 5:1 for accuracy since homework graded for accuracy counts 50% more than homework graded for completion (homework overall still counts for no more than 10%, but even a few points can make the difference between 89 and 91). And BoB provides only about 60% of the answers. An experienced math teacher and an effective system. Your math teacher should try it sometime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, I asked 1 of the top students at Madison for thoughts on SBG: student said “I think it allows kids to slack off.” I asked a student in the middle for thoughts: “I love it. It allows me to relax and slack off. Every time I see that P and realize it doesn’t count, I just relax because I’m not going to do it.”

From a teacher after some students refused to work: I can’t make them do anything

It seems very logical to me why Madison was chosen as a good candidate for this experiment. Sports is very important to a large portion of students in the school and SBG allows them to focus more of their time there without being penalized for not turning in academic work. One might argue that those students will do badly on tests if they don't put in the effort on the assignments. However, if the curriculum is sufficiently watered down, those students will not necessarily need to do much work to get good grades. Students are happier to have time for their sports, more students who were previously failing get a chance to boost their grades, and the school system can show higher grade achievement across the board.

A significant portion of kids will now be conditioned to not do assigned work and to further believe they have learned a lot because they have gotten a good grade. They will then find in college that not all classes are created equal, and that some classes require doing the homework to attain a sufficient mastery of skills needed to well on the exams. In those classes, cramming or getting a tutor at the last minute will not allow them to attain understanding.

The problem of teaching students the value of work towards achieving a higher level of understanding, is now being passed off to colleges.

You don’t have a clue. Jmhs is NOT watered down and SBG doesn’t make grading easier.

On the contrary, little to no homework in many classes is strong evidence of being watered down.

DP. I don't know about JMHS, but homework is functionally never graded for accuracy. It's supposed to be an opportunity to practice. Keys are available for students to check their work and it's graded on completion (which means that many students just copy the key and don't learn anything anyway until they have to take a quiz or test.
OTOH, I think SBG allows a huge number of retakes (unlimited?) so an enormous amount of extra work for teachers.

Not at my kid's traditional VA school. The teacher rolls a dice before every lesson that decides whether the homework is graded for completion or accuracy.
A flashcard is drawn with the name of a student and that student can set the odds for the dice from 1:5 to 5:1. Kids started the school year mostly going 5:1 for completion, but recently many go 5:1 for accuracy since homework graded for accuracy counts 50% more than homework graded for completion (homework overall still counts for no more than 10%, but even a few points can make the difference between 89 and 91). And BoB provides only about 60% of the answers. An experienced math teacher and an effective system. Your math teacher should try it sometime.

Strange. How is this more accurate than our previous grading system. Grading wasn't something we needed to fix. We need to help kids learn, not play games with grades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, I asked 1 of the top students at Madison for thoughts on SBG: student said “I think it allows kids to slack off.” I asked a student in the middle for thoughts: “I love it. It allows me to relax and slack off. Every time I see that P and realize it doesn’t count, I just relax because I’m not going to do it.”

From a teacher after some students refused to work: I can’t make them do anything

It seems very logical to me why Madison was chosen as a good candidate for this experiment. Sports is very important to a large portion of students in the school and SBG allows them to focus more of their time there without being penalized for not turning in academic work. One might argue that those students will do badly on tests if they don't put in the effort on the assignments. However, if the curriculum is sufficiently watered down, those students will not necessarily need to do much work to get good grades. Students are happier to have time for their sports, more students who were previously failing get a chance to boost their grades, and the school system can show higher grade achievement across the board.

A significant portion of kids will now be conditioned to not do assigned work and to further believe they have learned a lot because they have gotten a good grade. They will then find in college that not all classes are created equal, and that some classes require doing the homework to attain a sufficient mastery of skills needed to well on the exams. In those classes, cramming or getting a tutor at the last minute will not allow them to attain understanding.

The problem of teaching students the value of work towards achieving a higher level of understanding, is now being passed off to colleges.

You don’t have a clue. Jmhs is NOT watered down and SBG doesn’t make grading easier.

On the contrary, little to no homework in many classes is strong evidence of being watered down.

DP. I don't know about JMHS, but homework is functionally never graded for accuracy. It's supposed to be an opportunity to practice. Keys are available for students to check their work and it's graded on completion (which means that many students just copy the key and don't learn anything anyway until they have to take a quiz or test.
OTOH, I think SBG allows a huge number of retakes (unlimited?) so an enormous amount of extra work for teachers.

Not at my kid's traditional VA school. The teacher rolls a dice before every lesson that decides whether the homework is graded for completion or accuracy.
A flashcard is drawn with the name of a student and that student can set the odds for the dice from 1:5 to 5:1. Kids started the school year mostly going 5:1 for completion, but recently many go 5:1 for accuracy since homework graded for accuracy counts 50% more than homework graded for completion (homework overall still counts for no more than 10%, but even a few points can make the difference between 89 and 91). And BoB provides only about 60% of the answers. An experienced math teacher and an effective system. Your math teacher should try it sometime.

Strange. How is this more accurate than our previous grading system. Grading wasn't something we needed to fix. We need to help kids learn, not play games with grades.

What's strange? This is the previous grading system that's being abolished at Madison.
The previous grading system rewarded effort in all areas: quizzes + timed tests (which account for the majority of the grade), in-class work (a small amount) and a small amount of credit goes to homework. A balanced mix that ensures students get an incentive to participate in all activities in the class and have incentive to put in the homework practice they need to succeed on the quizzes and tests.
To get an A, you need to ace the quizzes, and do the classwork and homework that prepare you for those.

That's a good system. Proven. The new stuff is made up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, I asked 1 of the top students at Madison for thoughts on SBG: student said “I think it allows kids to slack off.” I asked a student in the middle for thoughts: “I love it. It allows me to relax and slack off. Every time I see that P and realize it doesn’t count, I just relax because I’m not going to do it.”

From a teacher after some students refused to work: I can’t make them do anything

It seems very logical to me why Madison was chosen as a good candidate for this experiment. Sports is very important to a large portion of students in the school and SBG allows them to focus more of their time there without being penalized for not turning in academic work. One might argue that those students will do badly on tests if they don't put in the effort on the assignments. However, if the curriculum is sufficiently watered down, those students will not necessarily need to do much work to get good grades. Students are happier to have time for their sports, more students who were previously failing get a chance to boost their grades, and the school system can show higher grade achievement across the board.

A significant portion of kids will now be conditioned to not do assigned work and to further believe they have learned a lot because they have gotten a good grade. They will then find in college that not all classes are created equal, and that some classes require doing the homework to attain a sufficient mastery of skills needed to well on the exams. In those classes, cramming or getting a tutor at the last minute will not allow them to attain understanding.

The problem of teaching students the value of work towards achieving a higher level of understanding, is now being passed off to colleges.

You don’t have a clue. Jmhs is NOT watered down and SBG doesn’t make grading easier.

On the contrary, little to no homework in many classes is strong evidence of being watered down.

DP. I don't know about JMHS, but homework is functionally never graded for accuracy. It's supposed to be an opportunity to practice. Keys are available for students to check their work and it's graded on completion (which means that many students just copy the key and don't learn anything anyway until they have to take a quiz or test.
OTOH, I think SBG allows a huge number of retakes (unlimited?) so an enormous amount of extra work for teachers.

Not at my kid's traditional VA school. The teacher rolls a dice before every lesson that decides whether the homework is graded for completion or accuracy.
A flashcard is drawn with the name of a student and that student can set the odds for the dice from 1:5 to 5:1. Kids started the school year mostly going 5:1 for completion, but recently many go 5:1 for accuracy since homework graded for accuracy counts 50% more than homework graded for completion (homework overall still counts for no more than 10%, but even a few points can make the difference between 89 and 91). And BoB provides only about 60% of the answers. An experienced math teacher and an effective system. Your math teacher should try it sometime.

Strange. How is this more accurate than our previous grading system. Grading wasn't something we needed to fix. We need to help kids learn, not play games with grades.

What's strange? This is the previous grading system that's being abolished at Madison.
The previous grading system rewarded effort in all areas: quizzes + timed tests (which account for the majority of the grade), in-class work (a small amount) and a small amount of credit goes to homework. A balanced mix that ensures students get an incentive to participate in all activities in the class and have incentive to put in the homework practice they need to succeed on the quizzes and tests.
To get an A, you need to ace the quizzes, and do the classwork and homework that prepare you for those.

That's a good system. Proven. The new stuff is made up.

Most of us agree with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, I asked 1 of the top students at Madison for thoughts on SBG: student said “I think it allows kids to slack off.” I asked a student in the middle for thoughts: “I love it. It allows me to relax and slack off. Every time I see that P and realize it doesn’t count, I just relax because I’m not going to do it.”

From a teacher after some students refused to work: I can’t make them do anything

It seems very logical to me why Madison was chosen as a good candidate for this experiment. Sports is very important to a large portion of students in the school and SBG allows them to focus more of their time there without being penalized for not turning in academic work. One might argue that those students will do badly on tests if they don't put in the effort on the assignments. However, if the curriculum is sufficiently watered down, those students will not necessarily need to do much work to get good grades. Students are happier to have time for their sports, more students who were previously failing get a chance to boost their grades, and the school system can show higher grade achievement across the board.

A significant portion of kids will now be conditioned to not do assigned work and to further believe they have learned a lot because they have gotten a good grade. They will then find in college that not all classes are created equal, and that some classes require doing the homework to attain a sufficient mastery of skills needed to well on the exams. In those classes, cramming or getting a tutor at the last minute will not allow them to attain understanding.

The problem of teaching students the value of work towards achieving a higher level of understanding, is now being passed off to colleges.

You don’t have a clue. Jmhs is NOT watered down and SBG doesn’t make grading easier.

On the contrary, little to no homework in many classes is strong evidence of being watered down.

DP. I don't know about JMHS, but homework is functionally never graded for accuracy. It's supposed to be an opportunity to practice. Keys are available for students to check their work and it's graded on completion (which means that many students just copy the key and don't learn anything anyway until they have to take a quiz or test.
OTOH, I think SBG allows a huge number of retakes (unlimited?) so an enormous amount of extra work for teachers.

Not at my kid's traditional VA school. The teacher rolls a dice before every lesson that decides whether the homework is graded for completion or accuracy.
A flashcard is drawn with the name of a student and that student can set the odds for the dice from 1:5 to 5:1. Kids started the school year mostly going 5:1 for completion, but recently many go 5:1 for accuracy since homework graded for accuracy counts 50% more than homework graded for completion (homework overall still counts for no more than 10%, but even a few points can make the difference between 89 and 91). And BoB provides only about 60% of the answers. An experienced math teacher and an effective system. Your math teacher should try it sometime.

Strange. How is this more accurate than our previous grading system. Grading wasn't something we needed to fix. We need to help kids learn, not play games with grades.

What's strange? This is the previous grading system that's being abolished at Madison.
The previous grading system rewarded effort in all areas: quizzes + timed tests (which account for the majority of the grade), in-class work (a small amount) and a small amount of credit goes to homework. A balanced mix that ensures students get an incentive to participate in all activities in the class and have incentive to put in the homework practice they need to succeed on the quizzes and tests.
To get an A, you need to ace the quizzes, and do the classwork and homework that prepare you for those.

That's a good system. Proven. The new stuff is made up.

Agreed. I was commenting that it was weird to not have a system and just play games like rolling dice whether or not to grade assignments.

[Anonymous]

I can't believe there weren't standards for grading before. AP classes and IB classes must have recommendations on number and type of assignments and quizzes and tests. Same for previous FCPS classes. How is the new grading compared to these existing systems?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, I asked 1 of the top students at Madison for thoughts on SBG: student said “I think it allows kids to slack off.” I asked a student in the middle for thoughts: “I love it. It allows me to relax and slack off. Every time I see that P and realize it doesn’t count, I just relax because I’m not going to do it.”

From a teacher after some students refused to work: I can’t make them do anything

It seems very logical to me why Madison was chosen as a good candidate for this experiment. Sports is very important to a large portion of students in the school and SBG allows them to focus more of their time there without being penalized for not turning in academic work. One might argue that those students will do badly on tests if they don't put in the effort on the assignments. However, if the curriculum is sufficiently watered down, those students will not necessarily need to do much work to get good grades. Students are happier to have time for their sports, more students who were previously failing get a chance to boost their grades, and the school system can show higher grade achievement across the board.

A significant portion of kids will now be conditioned to not do assigned work and to further believe they have learned a lot because they have gotten a good grade. They will then find in college that not all classes are created equal, and that some classes require doing the homework to attain a sufficient mastery of skills needed to well on the exams. In those classes, cramming or getting a tutor at the last minute will not allow them to attain understanding.

The problem of teaching students the value of work towards achieving a higher level of understanding, is now being passed off to colleges.

You don’t have a clue. Jmhs is NOT watered down and SBG doesn’t make grading easier.

On the contrary, little to no homework in many classes is strong evidence of being watered down.

No, it’s not. Check the grades. Talk to the good students. Don’t just make crap up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, I asked 1 of the top students at Madison for thoughts on SBG: student said “I think it allows kids to slack off.” I asked a student in the middle for thoughts: “I love it. It allows me to relax and slack off. Every time I see that P and realize it doesn’t count, I just relax because I’m not going to do it.”

From a teacher after some students refused to work: I can’t make them do anything

It seems very logical to me why Madison was chosen as a good candidate for this experiment. Sports is very important to a large portion of students in the school and SBG allows them to focus more of their time there without being penalized for not turning in academic work. One might argue that those students will do badly on tests if they don't put in the effort on the assignments. However, if the curriculum is sufficiently watered down, those students will not necessarily need to do much work to get good grades. Students are happier to have time for their sports, more students who were previously failing get a chance to boost their grades, and the school system can show higher grade achievement across the board.

A significant portion of kids will now be conditioned to not do assigned work and to further believe they have learned a lot because they have gotten a good grade. They will then find in college that not all classes are created equal, and that some classes require doing the homework to attain a sufficient mastery of skills needed to well on the exams. In those classes, cramming or getting a tutor at the last minute will not allow them to attain understanding.

The problem of teaching students the value of work towards achieving a higher level of understanding, is now being passed off to colleges.

You don’t have a clue. Jmhs is NOT watered down and SBG doesn’t make grading easier.

On the contrary, little to no homework in many classes is strong evidence of being watered down.

No, it’s not. Check the grades. Talk to the good students. Don’t just make crap up.

The good students are the ones the most impacted by this. I don’t think your junior is one of those strivers you make fun of. There is no longer homework in honors classes at Madison and the curriculum in those classes is watered down. Those of us with kids that have already been through Madison before SBG know this.