Two Rivers worth it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you have the choice I would not go with TR. We were there for two years and I’m so grateful we don’t have to deal with it anymore. There are so many things that can’t be explained or justified - and don’t even try to bring it up to the administration. TR changed out my child’s first grade teacher for the last 2 months of school to support “enrollment efforts” and then refused to even talk to parents until well after the change had been made. They care a lot about admissions and little about children.

This aligns with our experience. There are some stellar teachers and staff; leadership seems to be a vulnerability.

This. Our DC's teachers in K and first were excellent otherwise we would have bailed sooner. Leadership is truly terrible; I'm not sure how much longer the school can survive under current ED.

Putting aside how the leadership navigated distance learning, how have the leadership deficiencies manifested themselves at the classroom/instructional level? Is there a sense that kids are being poorly educated in core areas of learning? And if so, what student subgroups are most impacted? To the extent there are disparate impacts, how much of this is traceable to problems with leadership versus demographic features present in most DC schools?

Are there leadership dynamics that DON’T seem to be impacting classroom level outcomes, even if the such dynamics are problematic in principle?

I’m just trying to understand is TR is on balance preferable to our low performing (ie, test scores) in-bound DCPS, which I think is well run.

All leadership dynamics impact the classroom eventually. Staff leaves and it's hard to attract good people because the school gets a bad rep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you have the choice I would not go with TR. We were there for two years and I’m so grateful we don’t have to deal with it anymore. There are so many things that can’t be explained or justified - and don’t even try to bring it up to the administration. TR changed out my child’s first grade teacher for the last 2 months of school to support “enrollment efforts” and then refused to even talk to parents until well after the change had been made. They care a lot about admissions and little about children.

This aligns with our experience. There are some stellar teachers and staff; leadership seems to be a vulnerability.

This. Our DC's teachers in K and first were excellent otherwise we would have bailed sooner. Leadership is truly terrible; I'm not sure how much longer the school can survive under current ED.

Putting aside how the leadership navigated distance learning, how have the leadership deficiencies manifested themselves at the classroom/instructional level? Is there a sense that kids are being poorly educated in core areas of learning? And if so, what student subgroups are most impacted? To the extent there are disparate impacts, how much of this is traceable to problems with leadership versus demographic features present in most DC schools?

Are there leadership dynamics that DON’T seem to be impacting classroom level outcomes, even if the such dynamics are problematic in principle?


I’m just trying to understand is TR is on balance preferable to our low performing (ie, test scores) in-bound DCPS, which I think is well run.

All leadership dynamics impact the classroom eventually. Staff leaves and it's hard to attract good people because the school gets a bad rep.

Yes. I understand that, but I’m asking if that that has — in fact — occurred at TR?

And there may be some things that are more objectionable to certain families (even UMC families) that are of no consequence (or at least not a deal breaker) for other families. I’m just trying to get a concrete sense of how the the reported leadership deficiencies are harming academic outcomes for students, or for certain students.

My choice isn’t between Two Rivers or JKLM (or LT, Maury, SWS, private). It’s between TR for the next few years versus our inbound DCPS, with only a narrow slice of kids at grade level in Math me ELA / basically none above grade level. In light of the concerns with TR, would our inbound (or similarly situated DCPSs) STILL be a better choice?

We are fine with going private for middle and HS or moving if necessary if that a useful factoid.

[Anonymous]

Example of school admin affecting learning: teacher felt bullied by a few parents, didn’t get support from admin & quit mid year.

[Anonymous]

The problems with admin were present before the current ED. Most of the most unresponsive administrators were in place before she came. She started during a pandemic. Would be hard to turn things around during that time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Example of school admin affecting learning: teacher felt bullied by a few parents, didn’t get support from admin & quit mid year.

What accusations were these parents making against the teacher (if any).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Example of school admin affecting learning: teacher felt bullied by a few parents, didn’t get support from admin & quit mid year.

I'm sorry, but unless this was really extraordinary "bullying," part of the job of being a teacher in DC (particularly in the environs of the Hill) is knowing how to deal with pushy and entitled parents. If anything, a good admin will encourage parents to resolve issues first with the teacher.

[Anonymous]

Does your kid like to be outside? The TR buildings are right off Florida Ave in a pretty grim setup from a play perspective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does your kid like to be outside? The TR buildings are right off Florida Ave in a pretty grim setup from a play perspective.

Our low-performing DCPS inbound has a wonderful playground. Is that a reason to stay there if we have the opportunity for Two Rivers 4th?

I mean, we are dealing with urban educations folks. We've decided to compromise a lot school-wise just by choosing to live in the city (outside of upper NW).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does your kid like to be outside? The TR buildings are right off Florida Ave in a pretty grim setup from a play perspective.

Our low-performing DCPS inbound has a wonderful playground. Is that a reason to stay there if we have the opportunity for Two Rivers 4th?

I mean, we are dealing with urban educations folks. We've decided to compromise a lot school-wise just by choosing to live in the city (outside of upper NW).

For elementary? Maybe, tbh.

[Anonymous]

If you know that you're going private for middle school then TR through 5th is just fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does your kid like to be outside? The TR buildings are right off Florida Ave in a pretty grim setup from a play perspective.

Our low-performing DCPS inbound has a wonderful playground. Is that a reason to stay there if we have the opportunity for Two Rivers 4th?

I mean, we are dealing with urban educations folks. We've decided to compromise a lot school-wise just by choosing to live in the city (outside of upper NW).

For elementary? Maybe, tbh.

Agreed. A lot of the elementary experience is hard to sum up in test scores, so "low performing" might mean your school has a higher proportion of at-risk kids or IEDs, for whom it is hard to design a standardized test that does not disadvantage them. If you school gets kids outside (which is a big way to make indoor education work better, after they get their wiggles out, even in non-pandemic times), and the teaching is good (often DCPS elementaries have great teachers because they pay so well), then it might be a better option than a charter with some good teachers and a weak admin. As our kids get older and we have an eye on all the charters around us (and local DCPSs) through friends, what we've noticed, generally, is that people leave the "HRC" charters (like TR) in the upper grades because the shine comes off. They leave DCPS schools for the middle school feeder pattern, rather than the education. So I guess you want to weigh all of that vs your IB middle school (vs the likelihood that your IB remains the same and of similar quality, vs the likelihood that you are living in the same place, etc etc etc). There are a lot of variables, but I wouldn't discount the outdoor play space.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does your kid like to be outside? The TR buildings are right off Florida Ave in a pretty grim setup from a play perspective.

Our low-performing DCPS inbound has a wonderful playground. Is that a reason to stay there if we have the opportunity for Two Rivers 4th?

I mean, we are dealing with urban educations folks. We've decided to compromise a lot school-wise just by choosing to live in the city (outside of upper NW).

For elementary? Maybe, tbh.

Agreed. A lot of the elementary experience is hard to sum up in test scores, so "low performing" might mean your school has a higher proportion of at-risk kids or IEDs, for whom it is hard to design a standardized test that does not disadvantage them. If you school gets kids outside (which is a big way to make indoor education work better, after they get their wiggles out, even in non-pandemic times), and the teaching is good (often DCPS elementaries have great teachers because they pay so well), then it might be a better option than a charter with some good teachers and a weak admin. As our kids get older and we have an eye on all the charters around us (and local DCPSs) through friends, what we've noticed, generally, is that people leave the "HRC" charters (like TR) in the upper grades because the shine comes off. They leave DCPS schools for the middle school feeder pattern, rather than the education. So I guess you want to weigh all of that vs your IB middle school (vs the likelihood that your IB remains the same and of similar quality, vs the likelihood that you are living in the same place, etc etc etc). There are a lot of variables, but I wouldn't discount the outdoor play space.

Yes, I think most understand that "high/low-performing" says much more about school demographics than it does about the quality of the teaching quality per se.

Where do folks go after the "shine comes off" HRCS? Do they move to the burds, upper NW, go private? Or back to their DCPS in-bound until middle school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does your kid like to be outside? The TR buildings are right off Florida Ave in a pretty grim setup from a play perspective.

Our low-performing DCPS inbound has a wonderful playground. Is that a reason to stay there if we have the opportunity for Two Rivers 4th?

I mean, we are dealing with urban educations folks. We've decided to compromise a lot school-wise just by choosing to live in the city (outside of upper NW).

For elementary? Maybe, tbh.

If it's JO Wilson, yeah, maybe. Or Miner. Both schools I would consider equally as good as Two Rivers for preschool and early elementary. So it depends on how long you want to stay, and any other factors like commute.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does your kid like to be outside? The TR buildings are right off Florida Ave in a pretty grim setup from a play perspective.

Our low-performing DCPS inbound has a wonderful playground. Is that a reason to stay there if we have the opportunity for Two Rivers 4th?

I mean, we are dealing with urban educations folks. We've decided to compromise a lot school-wise just by choosing to live in the city (outside of upper NW).

For elementary? Maybe, tbh.

Agreed. A lot of the elementary experience is hard to sum up in test scores, so "low performing" might mean your school has a higher proportion of at-risk kids or IEDs, for whom it is hard to design a standardized test that does not disadvantage them. If you school gets kids outside (which is a big way to make indoor education work better, after they get their wiggles out, even in non-pandemic times), and the teaching is good (often DCPS elementaries have great teachers because they pay so well), then it might be a better option than a charter with some good teachers and a weak admin. As our kids get older and we have an eye on all the charters around us (and local DCPSs) through friends, what we've noticed, generally, is that people leave the "HRC" charters (like TR) in the upper grades because the shine comes off. They leave DCPS schools for the middle school feeder pattern, rather than the education. So I guess you want to weigh all of that vs your IB middle school (vs the likelihood that your IB remains the same and of similar quality, vs the likelihood that you are living in the same place, etc etc etc). There are a lot of variables, but I wouldn't discount the outdoor play space.

Yes, I think most understand that "high/low-performing" says much more about school demographics than it does about the quality of the teaching quality per se.

Where do folks go after the "shine comes off" HRCS? Do they move to the burds, upper NW, go private? Or back to their DCPS in-bound until middle school?

All of those things, or they just put up with it. Or move far far away for family reasons or whatever. People seldom return to their IB, unless they're at SSMA, but I do see people realize in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd that Montessori is not working out for them, or that their child is struggling with the target language in a language school. In that case they might try a different HRCS or a DCPS with better performance than their IB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does your kid like to be outside? The TR buildings are right off Florida Ave in a pretty grim setup from a play perspective.

Our low-performing DCPS inbound has a wonderful playground. Is that a reason to stay there if we have the opportunity for Two Rivers 4th?

I mean, we are dealing with urban educations folks. We've decided to compromise a lot school-wise just by choosing to live in the city (outside of upper NW).

For elementary? Maybe, tbh.

Agreed. A lot of the elementary experience is hard to sum up in test scores, so "low performing" might mean your school has a higher proportion of at-risk kids or IEDs, for whom it is hard to design a standardized test that does not disadvantage them. If you school gets kids outside (which is a big way to make indoor education work better, after they get their wiggles out, even in non-pandemic times), and the teaching is good (often DCPS elementaries have great teachers because they pay so well), then it might be a better option than a charter with some good teachers and a weak admin. As our kids get older and we have an eye on all the charters around us (and local DCPSs) through friends, what we've noticed, generally, is that people leave the "HRC" charters (like TR) in the upper grades because the shine comes off. They leave DCPS schools for the middle school feeder pattern, rather than the education. So I guess you want to weigh all of that vs your IB middle school (vs the likelihood that your IB remains the same and of similar quality, vs the likelihood that you are living in the same place, etc etc etc). There are a lot of variables, but I wouldn't discount the outdoor play space.

In my circle, most have moved to the burbs or WOTP. I know a few who returned to their IB or lotteries to other IB, and a few who go private. For us, that mitigates in favor of us staying at our IB a bit longer. If we are going to probably face switching schools at a charter, we might as well reap the benefits of our neighborhood school as long as we can, and put our kid through fewer school changes.

Yes, I think most understand that "high/low-performing" says much more about school demographics than it does about the quality of the teaching quality per se.

Where do folks go after the "shine comes off" HRCS? Do they move to the burds, upper NW, go private? Or back to their DCPS in-bound until middle school?

All of those things, or they just put up with it. Or move far far away for family reasons or whatever. People seldom return to their IB, unless they're at SSMA, but I do see people realize in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd that Montessori is not working out for them, or that their child is struggling with the target language in a language school. In that case they might try a different HRCS or a DCPS with better performance than their IB.