The Atlantic How College Became a Ruthless Competition ...

[Anonymous]

Has no one sent a kid to elite college and it has been a good fit? No one has kid going though the course catalog like they are in a candy store?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's easy to agree with this in the abstract, but the fact is that it's easier to have a good life if you have enough money, and it's easier to make money if you go to a prestigious school. The employers and industries that pay the most and offer the most obvious path to prosperity hire disproportionately from these schools. That is also true for the jobs and fields that wield the most power in this country - when was the last time there was a supreme court justice, or even clerk, who didn't graduate from an Ivy/Stanford? You can get a great education many places, but the more "status" a university has, the more options it keeps open for the future. Obviously there are successful people who didn't take this route, but it's harder without that type of a well-worn path. How many of us are visionary entrepreneurs? I'm certainly not. Biglaw has been a good fit for me.

Really? I disagree that going to a more prestigious school and a more lucrative profession such as Biglaw makes for a happier life. In Mr. Darcy’s time (from the article), the elite could be idle or pursue their little passion projects. Today the elite work the longest hours and are under the most stress.

Going to elite colleges are like a pie-eating contest where the award is more pie.

Thank you. People in Big Law or Investment Banking are not famous for being happy. But the driven parents on this site rarely say they aspire for their children to be happy or mentally health or to achieve balance in their lives.

They talk about prestige and income. Some values...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's easy to agree with this in the abstract, but the fact is that it's easier to have a good life if you have enough money, and it's easier to make money if you go to a prestigious school. The employers and industries that pay the most and offer the most obvious path to prosperity hire disproportionately from these schools. That is also true for the jobs and fields that wield the most power in this country - when was the last time there was a supreme court justice, or even clerk, who didn't graduate from an Ivy/Stanford? You can get a great education many places, but the more "status" a university has, the more options it keeps open for the future. Obviously there are successful people who didn't take this route, but it's harder without that type of a well-worn path. How many of us are visionary entrepreneurs? I'm certainly not. Biglaw has been a good fit for me.

Really? I disagree that going to a more prestigious school and a more lucrative profession such as Biglaw makes for a happier life. In Mr. Darcy’s time (from the article), the elite could be idle or pursue their little passion projects. Today the elite work the longest hours and are under the most stress.

Going to elite colleges are like a pie-eating contest where the award is more pie.

It is the ultimate pie eating contest. But I love my job and career. I don't care if my kids pursue a similar path; of course, my hope is that they will find something they LOVE and which they can use to support themselves and have the life they want. Most people don't know what that is when they're 18. Going to a prestigious school maintains the maximum number of options. That is its value to me. I don't like the system as it currently exists and wish there wasn't such a wide discrepancy between the socioeconomic classes, because then people would feel freer to pursue different vocations, but I don't know how to change it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's easy to agree with this in the abstract, but the fact is that it's easier to have a good life if you have enough money, and it's easier to make money if you go to a prestigious school. The employers and industries that pay the most and offer the most obvious path to prosperity hire disproportionately from these schools. That is also true for the jobs and fields that wield the most power in this country - when was the last time there was a supreme court justice, or even clerk, who didn't graduate from an Ivy/Stanford? You can get a great education many places, but the more "status" a university has, the more options it keeps open for the future. Obviously there are successful people who didn't take this route, but it's harder without that type of a well-worn path. How many of us are visionary entrepreneurs? I'm certainly not. Biglaw has been a good fit for me.

Really? I disagree that going to a more prestigious school and a more lucrative profession such as Biglaw makes for a happier life. In Mr. Darcy’s time (from the article), the elite could be idle or pursue their little passion projects. Today the elite work the longest hours and are under the most stress.

Going to elite colleges are like a pie-eating contest where the award is more pie.

It is the ultimate pie eating contest. But I love my job and career. I don't care if my kids pursue a similar path; of course, my hope is that they will find something they LOVE and which they can use to support themselves and have the life they want. Most people don't know what that is when they're 18. Going to a prestigious school maintains the maximum number of options. That is its value to me. I don't like the system as it currently exists and wish there wasn't such a wide discrepancy between the socioeconomic classes, because then people would feel freer to pursue different vocations, but I don't know how to change it.

And btw my family growing up was truly middle class financially and my parents were hyper focused on balance. They were both in nurse/teacher/social worker type jobs and spent a ton of time with me and my sibling. And I decided at 10 that I wanted to be an investment banker and wound up in biglaw instead. There are people for whom these jobs are a good fit. Most of my colleagues thrive on what they do, even if the hours can be a grind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's easy to agree with this in the abstract, but the fact is that it's easier to have a good life if you have enough money, and it's easier to make money if you go to a prestigious school. The employers and industries that pay the most and offer the most obvious path to prosperity hire disproportionately from these schools. That is also true for the jobs and fields that wield the most power in this country - when was the last time there was a supreme court justice, or even clerk, who didn't graduate from an Ivy/Stanford? You can get a great education many places, but the more "status" a university has, the more options it keeps open for the future. Obviously there are successful people who didn't take this route, but it's harder without that type of a well-worn path. How many of us are visionary entrepreneurs? I'm certainly not. Biglaw has been a good fit for me.

Really? I disagree that going to a more prestigious school and a more lucrative profession such as Biglaw makes for a happier life. In Mr. Darcy’s time (from the article), the elite could be idle or pursue their little passion projects. Today the elite work the longest hours and are under the most stress.

Going to elite colleges are like a pie-eating contest where the award is more pie.

It is the ultimate pie eating contest. But I love my job and career. I don't care if my kids pursue a similar path; of course, my hope is that they will find something they LOVE and which they can use to support themselves and have the life they want. Most people don't know what that is when they're 18. Going to a prestigious school maintains the maximum number of options. That is its value to me. I don't like the system as it currently exists and wish there wasn't such a wide discrepancy between the socioeconomic classes, because then people would feel freer to pursue different vocations, but I don't know how to change it.

You can begin by voting for Democrats. They at least agree that the growing gap between our social classes is problematic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's easy to agree with this in the abstract, but the fact is that it's easier to have a good life if you have enough money, and it's easier to make money if you go to a prestigious school. The employers and industries that pay the most and offer the most obvious path to prosperity hire disproportionately from these schools. That is also true for the jobs and fields that wield the most power in this country - when was the last time there was a supreme court justice, or even clerk, who didn't graduate from an Ivy/Stanford? You can get a great education many places, but the more "status" a university has, the more options it keeps open for the future. Obviously there are successful people who didn't take this route, but it's harder without that type of a well-worn path. How many of us are visionary entrepreneurs? I'm certainly not. Biglaw has been a good fit for me.

Really? I disagree that going to a more prestigious school and a more lucrative profession such as Biglaw makes for a happier life. In Mr. Darcy’s time (from the article), the elite could be idle or pursue their little passion projects. Today the elite work the longest hours and are under the most stress.

Going to elite colleges are like a pie-eating contest where the award is more pie.

It is the ultimate pie eating contest. But I love my job and career. I don't care if my kids pursue a similar path; of course, my hope is that they will find something they LOVE and which they can use to support themselves and have the life they want. Most people don't know what that is when they're 18. Going to a prestigious school maintains the maximum number of options. That is its value to me. I don't like the system as it currently exists and wish there wasn't such a wide discrepancy between the socioeconomic classes, because then people would feel freer to pursue different vocations, but I don't know how to change it.

You can begin by voting for Democrats. They at least agree that the growing gap between our social classes is problematic.

I agree and have exclusively voted for and donated to Democrats, and I support higher taxation on families like mine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very interesting perspective. From the article:
“Education’s core purpose is (or once was) to help people engage with the world and grow into themselves—to discover the overlap between their interests and their talents and develop it. Different people and schools each embrace distinctive visions of empathy, understanding, wisdom, and usefulness: The scholar aspires to know the forces that drive history forward, the inventor seeks to bend technology to practical ends, and the activist strives to reform institutions and inspire citizens to embrace justice. Schools with different educational missions ought to favor different students, and students with different aspirations ought to favor different schools. ”

Yes! I have repeatedly said on here and say to my kids that college is not intended to be trade school!

Do your kids have a trust fund?

No. They will graduate with no debt, though, which helps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Focusing intensely on career and future wages is because of the insane price of college these days. If you pay full price, 80k for 4 years, you don’t have the luxury of saying I went to college to enrich my mind. You need a high paying job to justify your parents having spent over $300,000 for college for only one child. For 3 kids, you can end up spending close to $1 million. How can you not be career focused with these kinds of costs. Canada and Europe have figured it out much better than the US in my opinion. Maybe Asia too although HS stress in Asia is just too much

+1 parents are expected to save from the time their kid is a fetus or risk the kid having lifetime of crushing debt, yet we’re supposed to pretend that salary isn’t an outcome that matters

I've been saving since my kids were born to save them from a lifetime of crushing debt precisely so that the salary they make after college doesn't matter! I want them to pursue what interests them and figure out to make lives for themselves. I don't expect some financial return on the investment.

How can it not matter? It only matters if your child has a trust fund! If your theory is that your college graduate child doesn't care if he eats steak or ramen, shares an apartment with three other people or lives in his own house, travels by greyhound or by first class, you're wrong. Salary matters for quality of life. Is your child blind to that reality?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because somewhere along the way a ticket to an elite college also became, in the eyes of parents of privilege, an entitlement to an entire life of privilege for their (aided and abetted by parental wealth).

Because if you went to Princeton or Harvard in the 1950s it was something different?

Very different. Was there a single female at Princeton the 50s?

1972.

[Anonymous]

This is a by-product of all American capitalism and materialism. China and India are two other major countries that share this elitism with the U.S. Europe has long moved away from the elitist education mechanism, there are schools that you attend based on the craft you to follow, although they do have rankings the pressure to chase them is somewhat muted compared to the U.S in most of Western Europe today, they do not share the same chasing the American dream of living large in McMansions with our boats, expensive cars, country club memberships, and school prestige. American society has degenerated, we need to go back to implementing more social and economic equity, that the progressive left has been talking about for too long.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This article is right on point. Thanks for posting.

+1

It is, but I did not see mention that often, certain parents want what they didn't have - ie: living vicariously through their children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is a by-product of all American capitalism and materialism. China and India are two other major countries that share this elitism with the U.S. Europe has long moved away from the elitist education mechanism, there are schools that you attend based on the craft you to follow, although they do have rankings the pressure to chase them is somewhat muted compared to the U.S in most of Western Europe today, they do not share the same chasing the American dream of living large in McMansions with our boats, expensive cars, country club memberships, and school prestige. American society has degenerated, we need to go back to implementing more social and economic equity, that the progressive left has been talking about for too long.

In China, you have to pass a test just to GO to college.

[Anonymous]

From a parent whose nerdy DC never fit in a public high school and who is finding a tough very high level college is a very good fit, these places are not the terrible places described in this article. The geeks can have a place to do what they do and not be crapped on.

[Anonymous]

god this is so stupid

"It is a truth universally acknowledged that elite parents, in possession of excellent jobs, want to get their kids into college."

The horror!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Focusing intensely on career and future wages is because of the insane price of college these days. If you pay full price, 80k for 4 years, you don’t have the luxury of saying I went to college to enrich my mind. You need a high paying job to justify your parents having spent over $300,000 for college for only one child. For 3 kids, you can end up spending close to $1 million. How can you not be career focused with these kinds of costs. Canada and Europe have figured it out much better than the US in my opinion. Maybe Asia too although HS stress in Asia is just too much

+1 parents are expected to save from the time their kid is a fetus or risk the kid having lifetime of crushing debt, yet we’re supposed to pretend that salary isn’t an outcome that matters

I've been saving since my kids were born to save them from a lifetime of crushing debt precisely so that the salary they make after college doesn't matter! I want them to pursue what interests them and figure out to make lives for themselves. I don't expect some financial return on the investment.

How can it not matter? It only matters if your child has a trust fund! If your theory is that your college graduate child doesn't care if he eats steak or ramen, shares an apartment with three other people or lives in his own house, travels by greyhound or by first class, you're wrong. Salary matters for quality of life. Is your child blind to that reality?

The options aren’t limited to big salary or no salary. I want my kids to go to college and pursue the career paths that interest them, which means I don’t care if they choose paths that result in high salaries. I don’t expect them to make a lot of money to justify the cost of college.

One of my kids thinks he wants to major in history and become a teacher; if that’s what will make him happy, I’m happy for him to pursue that path. He can have a happy, fulfilling life on a teacher’s salary. That’s what matters to me.