Is there any academic reason to pick George Mason over W&M?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Good grief! Yes, GMU has come a long way in 20 years and good for the school and its students. I received a
masters from GMU and it was a supportive environment and the degree has served me well. But make no mistake. For an undergraduate experience there is little that can compare to W&M. The history, the gorgeous campus, the teaching quality, alumni network, student teacher ratio... the list goes on. I think it is a magical place if you are looking for an exceptional liberal arts experience. But I think most people know that already and just like to be annoying.

Or maybe only you see them as annoying? I come here for info. Some of us have kids that could never get into UVA or W&M. GMU turned out to be a great experience for my DS. He would never have gotten into the other two. Sharing of information is important, especially when you have older, ignorant posters who like to shoot if their mouths about GMU but when you press them, their data goes back 20 or 30 years. GMU has almost 40k students and is the most diverse public university in Virginia. W&M has only 8k and is more of a driven SLAC environment. GMU is better for engineering, law & economics, cyber security and computer science, and, yes, the students get good jobs before graduation m. A lot of SLACs, like my own, couldn’t say that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:W&M's surrounding area is absolutely terrible - filled with elderly (white) retirees and (white) rural types. It's isolated, the closest signs of civilizations are Richmond and Virginia Beach - 45 minutes drive away. Location affects academics.

It is indeed very popular with older individuals for whom the school was very prestigious when they were young. The same really doesn't hold true any more.

GMU is in a major metropolitan, magnitudes more cosmopolitan and a 20 minutes drive to Washington DC.

GMU has a strong IT program (top 10 in the country), provides engineering & nursing degrees; W&M doesn't have any of these programs.

GMU was considered an extremely mediocre commuter school for a long time, so you will see older people always prefer anything other than it. That view does not really hold true today after the massive economic expansion in Northern Virginia.

JFC, George Mason is near Fairfax City (a nothing burger “city”) and has one of the ugliest campuses there is. It may be ok for a self-motivated type, sure. But overselling just is bizarre.

How is the post overselling it? It's just stating facts.

That it's next to Fairfax City is not really relevant. It's in the DC-metro area and as I said, within 20 minutes drive to DC, 15 minutes drive to Arlington. Those are major pluses, given the student has a car.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Good grief! Yes, GMU has come a long way in 20 years and good for the school and its students. I received a
masters from GMU and it was a supportive environment and the degree has served me well. But make no mistake. For an undergraduate experience there is little that can compare to W&M. The history, the gorgeous campus, the teaching quality, alumni network, student teacher ratio... the list goes on. I think it is a magical place if you are looking for an exceptional liberal arts experience. But I think most people know that already and just like to be annoying.

I think you are overselling the history, alumni network and campus quite a bit.

Yes it has a long history...but an illustrious one only for the colonial period 240 years ago. Since then, the school has been quiet and frankly irrelevant. It was private and went bankrupt and closed, was later re-opened as a public teaching school (as in, a school to teach teachers similar to Mary Washington).

As for the alumni network...does it even have one? I don't think old people being impressed by the school's name can be considered a network.

The campus is great for a tourist visit. You shouldn't pick a college based on how pretty the campus is, more so the opportunities in the surrounding area.

Obviously the undergraduate student education is likely going to be better there than GMU for many subjects. I don't think anyone here is disputing that, they are just providing fields where GMU may be better (i.e. IT) and degrees that GMU provides than W&M doesn't (engineering).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good grief! Yes, GMU has come a long way in 20 years and good for the school and its students. I received a
masters from GMU and it was a supportive environment and the degree has served me well. But make no mistake. For an undergraduate experience there is little that can compare to W&M. The history, the gorgeous campus, the teaching quality, alumni network, student teacher ratio... the list goes on. I think it is a magical place if you are looking for an exceptional liberal arts experience. But I think most people know that already and just like to be annoying.

I think you are overselling the history, alumni network and campus quite a bit.

Yes it has a long history...but an illustrious one only for the colonial period 240 years ago. Since then, the school has been quiet and frankly irrelevant. It was private and went bankrupt and closed, was later re-opened as a public teaching school (as in, a school to teach teachers similar to Mary Washington).

As for the alumni network...does it even have one? I don't think old people being impressed by the school's name can be considered a network.

The campus is great for a tourist visit. You shouldn't pick a college based on how pretty the campus is, more so the opportunities in the surrounding area.

Obviously the undergraduate student education is likely going to be better there than GMU for many subjects. I don't think anyone here is disputing that, they are just providing fields where GMU may be better (i.e. IT) and degrees that GMU provides than W&M doesn't (engineering).

DP. Your words “frankly irrelevant” suggest that you have a chip on your shoulder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:WM has been resting on its laurels for a long time now. It is now a bit of an anachronism. Very white, very bubble, very privileged atmosphere that doesn’t relate much to the modern workforce or society anymore. GMU is a great school and more representative of the future.

I personally would feel more comfortable at a more traditional kind of university.

But I think George Mason is the U.S. equivalent of the "plate glass universities" in the UK. It may be the best for undergraduates, but it's a place where a lot of interesting research is done.

This site ranks George Mason at 322 in the world as a research university, and William and Mary at 582:

https://cwur.org/2018-19.php

So, it's conceivable that a CS student who was ready to do high-powered research might have more fun at George Mason.

[Anonymous]

There are about 36,000 students at George Mason. William and Mary has about 8,500. I don’t really understand what OP is searching for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:W&M's surrounding area is absolutely terrible - filled with elderly (white) retirees and (white) rural types. It's isolated, the closest signs of civilizations are Richmond and Virginia Beach - 45 minutes drive away. Location affects academics.

It is indeed very popular with older individuals for whom the school was very prestigious when they were young. The same really doesn't hold true any more.

GMU is in a major metropolitan, magnitudes more cosmopolitan and a 20 minutes drive to Washington DC.

GMU has a strong IT program (top 10 in the country), provides engineering & nursing degrees; W&M doesn't have any of these programs.

GMU was considered an extremely mediocre commuter school for a long time, so you will see older people always prefer anything other than it. That view does not really hold true today after the massive economic expansion in Northern Virginia.

JFC, George Mason is near Fairfax City (a nothing burger “city”) and has one of the ugliest campuses there is. It may be ok for a self-motivated type, sure. But overselling just is bizarre.

How is the post overselling it? It's just stating facts.

That it's next to Fairfax City is not really relevant. It's in the DC-metro area and as I said, within 20 minutes drive to DC, 15 minutes drive to Arlington. Those are major pluses, given the student has a car.

Yawn. Well, just to begin, your paragraph 1 is not stating the facts. You’re staying your opinion (“absolutely terrible”) and weirdly injecting race into the mix. You seem to have an ax to grind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:W&M's surrounding area is absolutely terrible - filled with elderly (white) retirees and (white) rural types. It's isolated, the closest signs of civilizations are Richmond and Virginia Beach - 45 minutes drive away. Location affects academics.

It is indeed very popular with older individuals for whom the school was very prestigious when they were young. The same really doesn't hold true any more.

GMU is in a major metropolitan, magnitudes more cosmopolitan and a 20 minutes drive to Washington DC.

GMU has a strong IT program (top 10 in the country), provides engineering & nursing degrees; W&M doesn't have any of these programs.

GMU was considered an extremely mediocre commuter school for a long time, so you will see older people always prefer anything other than it. That view does not really hold true today after the massive economic expansion in Northern Virginia.

JFC, George Mason is near Fairfax City (a nothing burger “city”) and has one of the ugliest campuses there is. It may be ok for a self-motivated type, sure. But overselling just is bizarre.

How is the post overselling it? It's just stating facts.

That it's next to Fairfax City is not really relevant. It's in the DC-metro area and as I said, within 20 minutes drive to DC, 15 minutes drive to Arlington. Those are major pluses, given the student has a car.

Yawn. Well, just to begin, your paragraph 1 is not stating the facts. You’re staying your opinion (“absolutely terrible”) and weirdly injecting race into the mix. You seem to have an ax to grind.

Your comment literally only referred to the facts that I stated about GMU. If you have disagreements on what I posted about W&M, perhaps you should post that instead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:National universities:
W&M #39
GMU #143

Top Public schools
W&M#11
GMU #65

Undergrad teaching
W&M #4 (tied with Princeton)
GMU ??

W&M has a 3-2 program with Columbia for CS. Columbia is in the T20 for CS.
GMU is #102 for engineering.

GMU has been on the cusp of greatness for 20 or so years.

Thank you. I'm a pretty snotty person when it comes to universities, but GMU is not bad. yes, much lower than WM but still....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good grief! Yes, GMU has come a long way in 20 years and good for the school and its students. I received a
masters from GMU and it was a supportive environment and the degree has served me well. But make no mistake. For an undergraduate experience there is little that can compare to W&M. The history, the gorgeous campus, the teaching quality, alumni network, student teacher ratio... the list goes on. I think it is a magical place if you are looking for an exceptional liberal arts experience. But I think most people know that already and just like to be annoying.

I think you are overselling the history, alumni network and campus quite a bit.

Yes it has a long history...but an illustrious one only for the colonial period 240 years ago. Since then, the school has been quiet and frankly irrelevant. It was private and went bankrupt and closed, was later re-opened as a public teaching school (as in, a school to teach teachers similar to Mary Washington).

As for the alumni network...does it even have one? I don't think old people being impressed by the school's name can be considered a network.

The campus is great for a tourist visit. You shouldn't pick a college based on how pretty the campus is, more so the opportunities in the surrounding area.

Obviously the undergraduate student education is likely going to be better there than GMU for many subjects. I don't think anyone here is disputing that, they are just providing fields where GMU may be better (i.e. IT) and degrees that GMU provides than W&M doesn't (engineering).

DP. Your words “frankly irrelevant” suggest that you have a chip on your shoulder.

So we are only allowed to praise universities based on false characteristics now?

The school has an "illustrious" history is this was 1776. It's not. The past 244 years of American history have gone by and again nothing illustrious has happened at the school, other than shutting down multiple times due to multiple bankruptcies, then being re-opened years later by the state as a school for schoolteachers.

This is simply stating facts, rather than embellishing a magical history that does not exist. We are not talking about Harvard, Yale, Princeton here, which were great in colonial times and have contributed ever more to American history since.

To say W&M has been quiet and irrelevant, to be frank, is an understatement. Multiple bankruptcies and closures, then being reopened as a state school for schoolteachers, are embarrassments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:W&M's surrounding area is absolutely terrible - filled with elderly (white) retirees and (white) rural types. It's isolated, the closest signs of civilizations are Richmond and Virginia Beach - 45 minutes drive away. Location affects academics.

It is indeed very popular with older individuals for whom the school was very prestigious when they were young. The same really doesn't hold true any more.

GMU is in a major metropolitan, magnitudes more cosmopolitan and a 20 minutes drive to Washington DC.

GMU has a strong IT program (top 10 in the country), provides engineering & nursing degrees; W&M doesn't have any of these programs.

GMU was considered an extremely mediocre commuter school for a long time, so you will see older people always prefer anything other than it. That view does not really hold true today after the massive economic expansion in Northern Virginia.

JFC, George Mason is near Fairfax City (a nothing burger “city”) and has one of the ugliest campuses there is. It may be ok for a self-motivated type, sure. But overselling just is bizarre.

How is the post overselling it? It's just stating facts.

That it's next to Fairfax City is not really relevant. It's in the DC-metro area and as I said, within 20 minutes drive to DC, 15 minutes drive to Arlington. Those are major pluses, given the student has a car.

Yawn. Well, just to begin, your paragraph 1 is not stating the facts. You’re staying your opinion (“absolutely terrible”) and weirdly injecting race into the mix. You seem to have an ax to grind.

Your comment literally only referred to the facts that I stated about GMU. If you have disagreements on what I posted about W&M, perhaps you should post that instead.

Hey, again, you referred to your post as “just” stating facts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good grief! Yes, GMU has come a long way in 20 years and good for the school and its students. I received a
masters from GMU and it was a supportive environment and the degree has served me well. But make no mistake. For an undergraduate experience there is little that can compare to W&M. The history, the gorgeous campus, the teaching quality, alumni network, student teacher ratio... the list goes on. I think it is a magical place if you are looking for an exceptional liberal arts experience. But I think most people know that already and just like to be annoying.

I think you are overselling the history, alumni network and campus quite a bit.

Yes it has a long history...but an illustrious one only for the colonial period 240 years ago. Since then, the school has been quiet and frankly irrelevant. It was private and went bankrupt and closed, was later re-opened as a public teaching school (as in, a school to teach teachers similar to Mary Washington).

As for the alumni network...does it even have one? I don't think old people being impressed by the school's name can be considered a network.

The campus is great for a tourist visit. You shouldn't pick a college based on how pretty the campus is, more so the opportunities in the surrounding area.

Obviously the undergraduate student education is likely going to be better there than GMU for many subjects. I don't think anyone here is disputing that, they are just providing fields where GMU may be better (i.e. IT) and degrees that GMU provides than W&M doesn't (engineering).

DP. Your words “frankly irrelevant” suggest that you have a chip on your shoulder.

So we are only allowed to praise universities based on false characteristics now?

The school has an "illustrious" history is this was 1776. It's not. The past 244 years of American history have gone by and again nothing illustrious has happened at the school, other than shutting down multiple times due to multiple bankruptcies, then being re-opened years later by the state as a school for schoolteachers.

This is simply stating facts, rather than embellishing a magical history that does not exist. We are not talking about Harvard, Yale, Princeton here, which were great in colonial times and have contributed ever more to American history since.

To say W&M has been quiet and irrelevant, to be frank, is an understatement. Multiple bankruptcies and closures, then being reopened as a state school for schoolteachers, are embarrassments.

You think that schoolteachers are embarrassments? I’m just going to leave that right there. You’ve lost me.

[Anonymous]

Wikipedia indicates that for a period, the school had some sort of affiliation/name associated with UVA. Too bad it didn’t retain that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:W&M's surrounding area is absolutely terrible - filled with elderly (white) retirees and (white) rural types. It's isolated, the closest signs of civilizations are Richmond and Virginia Beach - 45 minutes drive away. Location affects academics.

It is indeed very popular with older individuals for whom the school was very prestigious when they were young. The same really doesn't hold true any more.

GMU is in a major metropolitan, magnitudes more cosmopolitan and a 20 minutes drive to Washington DC.

GMU has a strong IT program (top 10 in the country), provides engineering & nursing degrees; W&M doesn't have any of these programs.

GMU was considered an extremely mediocre commuter school for a long time, so you will see older people always prefer anything other than it. That view does not really hold true today after the massive economic expansion in Northern Virginia.

JFC, George Mason is near Fairfax City (a nothing burger “city”) and has one of the ugliest campuses there is. It may be ok for a self-motivated type, sure. But overselling just is bizarre.

How is the post overselling it? It's just stating facts.

That it's next to Fairfax City is not really relevant. It's in the DC-metro area and as I said, within 20 minutes drive to DC, 15 minutes drive to Arlington. Those are major pluses, given the student has a car.

Yawn. Well, just to begin, your paragraph 1 is not stating the facts. You’re staying your opinion (“absolutely terrible”) and weirdly injecting race into the mix. You seem to have an ax to grind.

Your comment literally only referred to the facts that I stated about GMU. If you have disagreements on what I posted about W&M, perhaps you should post that instead.

Hey, again, you referred to your post as “just” stating facts.

No, I referred to the part of my post regarding GMU's location to be "just stating facts". You know, the part that you were directly commenting on?

But again, if you have disagreements on what I posted about W&M, perhaps you should post that instead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good grief! Yes, GMU has come a long way in 20 years and good for the school and its students. I received a
masters from GMU and it was a supportive environment and the degree has served me well. But make no mistake. For an undergraduate experience there is little that can compare to W&M. The history, the gorgeous campus, the teaching quality, alumni network, student teacher ratio... the list goes on. I think it is a magical place if you are looking for an exceptional liberal arts experience. But I think most people know that already and just like to be annoying.

I think you are overselling the history, alumni network and campus quite a bit.

Yes it has a long history...but an illustrious one only for the colonial period 240 years ago. Since then, the school has been quiet and frankly irrelevant. It was private and went bankrupt and closed, was later re-opened as a public teaching school (as in, a school to teach teachers similar to Mary Washington).

As for the alumni network...does it even have one? I don't think old people being impressed by the school's name can be considered a network.

The campus is great for a tourist visit. You shouldn't pick a college based on how pretty the campus is, more so the opportunities in the surrounding area.

Obviously the undergraduate student education is likely going to be better there than GMU for many subjects. I don't think anyone here is disputing that, they are just providing fields where GMU may be better (i.e. IT) and degrees that GMU provides than W&M doesn't (engineering).

DP. Your words “frankly irrelevant” suggest that you have a chip on your shoulder.

So we are only allowed to praise universities based on false characteristics now?

The school has an "illustrious" history is this was 1776. It's not. The past 244 years of American history have gone by and again nothing illustrious has happened at the school, other than shutting down multiple times due to multiple bankruptcies, then being re-opened years later by the state as a school for schoolteachers.

This is simply stating facts, rather than embellishing a magical history that does not exist. We are not talking about Harvard, Yale, Princeton here, which were great in colonial times and have contributed ever more to American history since.

To say W&M has been quiet and irrelevant, to be frank, is an understatement. Multiple bankruptcies and closures, then being reopened as a state school for schoolteachers, are embarrassments.

You think that schoolteachers are embarrassments? I’m just going to leave that right there. You’ve lost me.

Schoolteachers are not embarrassments, but anyone who thinks that being a public school for schoolteachers is an "illustrious history" is an embarrassment.

Lets talk about how James Madison and Mary Washington also have illustrious histories.