Ferber isn’t working!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You are letting your baby scream for one hour multiple time a night for several days? Sounds like he’ll for you and baby.

You should stop and co-sleep. I am anti sleep training because I think it’s selfish of the parents, but in your case I don’t think anyone is sleeping at all.

So terribly selfish of people to want to sleep so they can work and provide for their families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are letting your baby scream for one hour multiple time a night for several days? Sounds like he’ll for you and baby.

You should stop and co-sleep. I am anti sleep training because I think it’s selfish of the parents, but in your case I don’t think anyone is sleeping at all.

So terribly selfish of people to want to sleep so they can work and provide for their families.

I work full time, am perfectly functional, and don't need to put my baby in a crib alone for 10 hours to scream until he is so exhausted he falls asleep.

Yes, it is selfish to prioritize the sleep of an adult over the wellbeing and comfort of a baby, jfc.
If you can't handle being tired hire a night nurse or don't have kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Drop the nighttime feeds. Don’t do checks. Just close the door and don’t come back until 10 hours later. Repeat the next day.

you are a sociopath.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are letting your baby scream for one hour multiple time a night for several days? Sounds like he’ll for you and baby.

You should stop and co-sleep. I am anti sleep training because I think it’s selfish of the parents, but in your case I don’t think anyone is sleeping at all.

So terribly selfish of people to want to sleep so they can work and provide for their families.

I work full time, am perfectly functional, and don't need to put my baby in a crib alone for 10 hours to scream until he is so exhausted he falls asleep.

Yes, it is selfish to prioritize the sleep of an adult over the wellbeing and comfort of a baby, jfc.
If you can't handle being tired hire a night nurse or don't have kids.

+1

Never let any of my 3 kids alone crying at night (have tried other methods though) and I got a PhD and a job. My husband was amazing and did his fair share (plus some). Nobody was ever too exhausted

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP again. Thank you for the responses. Again, the problem is the baby going to sleep anytime - day or night. And I’m not going to stop feeding her at night until our pediatrician says it’s okay. So bye-bye Ferber!

This is the right decision. Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Drop the nighttime feeds. Don’t do checks. Just close the door and don’t come back until 10 hours later. Repeat the next day.

you are a sociopath.

A sociopath whose baby sleeps from 7:30-7:30 everyday with no issues. Don’t hate me because my whole household is well rested. Enjoy your lack of sleep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Drop the nighttime feeds. Don’t do checks. Just close the door and don’t come back until 10 hours later. Repeat the next day.

you are a sociopath.

A sociopath whose baby sleeps from 7:30-7:30 everyday with no issues. Don’t hate me because my whole household is well rested. Enjoy your lack of sleep.

Come back when they’re teenagers and suffering from attachment disorder and learning difficulties. Neglected orphans in orphanages are great sleepers too. They learn early on that no one is coming to help them so they give up.

Enjoy your sleep now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OK, I think you should try for longer naps. So, here are some tricks:

1. put her to bed sooner for her naps. Once a baby is yawning and rubbing their eyes, they are OVERTIRED. Yup - it's true! So after 2 hours of being awake, especially at that first morning nap, put her down. Now, I'd strongly encourage you to put her to bed in her crib and put your hand on her tummy and gently rock her side to side. perhaps with forehead rubs or hair rubs as well.

Dark room, not holding her, have her learn to fall asleep in her bed - even if it takes you 20 minutes or rocking and rubbing at the beginning, that's fine! Now, at this point you might need to have her get drowsy in your arms and then transfer her to crib, but that often gets them revved up again, so I tend to just start them in their cribs from the beginning. If you feed her, then change her diaper after the feeding so she is a bit awake before putting her down.

2. be alert! The first second she starts to waken, get in there and, without saying a WORD gently rock her tummy and get her back to sleep. No talking at all. Might take her 15 or 20 minutes (be patient, calm yourself, get your heartbeat down, breathe rhythmically, etc - a calm parent begets a sleeping baby so FAKE it till you make it) You want her to learn to sleep through that weird wakeup thing they have about 30 minutes into their naps (REM, non-REM, I can't remember the scientific terms right now)

She will NOT fall asleep on her own - you've had 6.5 months to figure that out. You need to help her at this point.

3. do this for every nap. see if she can sleep a 2 hour nap at 7am (ish) then a 1 hour nap 2 or 3 more times in the day.

4. Honestly, babies are crazy, and often need to have their first nap only 2 hours (or 1.5 hours) after they wake up in the morning! Seems so crazy, but whatever. They can often go a full 3 hours mid day, but not before that first nap.
So wakeup at 5;30?
first nap 7:30am - start at 7am THEN
wakes up at 8:30? next nap starts at 11am-ish
wakes up at 9:30am? next nap starts 2.5 to 3 hours later

5. Do all these things - placing baby on back, gently rock and rub, help her to go back to sleep after she wakes 10-20 minutes into her nap.

6. As she gets settled with you more quickly, (3 days? 5 days?) you will start to back off and rock her to mostly drowsy, then lift your hand and let her fall asleep herself. drowy, eyes fluttering, heavy, staying closed more than open.... that's what you are looking for and you lift your hand, or make the rocks slower. Then a few days later you back off a bit earlier, and so forth. DON'T WALK AWAY - these babies SENSE your presence. But eventually, you will be able to give her 5 minutes of rocking and rubbing and walk away, so that's the goal - let it take 2 weeks to get there, though.

Again, during this last stage, if she needs help to go back to sleep after the 20 minute nap, do that, but she should get better at learning to sleep through that sleep transition.

While you are working on naps, keep doing the same thing at bedtime with rocking the same length of time, etc. Just, if she sleeps better during the day, she should sleep better during the night because she's not so exhausted.

Keep feeding her at night, but after burping her (if she needs it) place her back in the crib and put her back to sleep - nurse/feed in a darkened room, no lights, no music, no dancing or talking or partying with parents.

She should be able to get it with this consistent, slow approach to TEACHING her how to fall asleep. The goal is that you kiss her on the forehead, pop her in her crib and walk out and she nuzzles and wiggles and falls asleep on her own.

Because when a child falls asleep on their own without an adult presence or help, then they can fall asleep in the middle of the night without an adult's presence or help. But - you need to lead her that way gently.

This might take 6 weeks, but it should work. And it might take less time! Try it. I couldn't stand, as I'm sure you cannot, listening to a young baby cry for an hour every night for 10 days, and not see any difference (I mean, she should be at least crying for less time by now or something!) So this isn't working, try a more gentle teaching approach.

Not everyone quits smoking by going cold turkey, others wean down and eventually get to nothing.

OP here. Thank you!!! This is incredibly helpful!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OK, I think you should try for longer naps. So, here are some tricks:

1. put her to bed sooner for her naps. Once a baby is yawning and rubbing their eyes, they are OVERTIRED. Yup - it's true! So after 2 hours of being awake, especially at that first morning nap, put her down. Now, I'd strongly encourage you to put her to bed in her crib and put your hand on her tummy and gently rock her side to side. perhaps with forehead rubs or hair rubs as well.

Dark room, not holding her, have her learn to fall asleep in her bed - even if it takes you 20 minutes or rocking and rubbing at the beginning, that's fine! Now, at this point you might need to have her get drowsy in your arms and then transfer her to crib, but that often gets them revved up again, so I tend to just start them in their cribs from the beginning. If you feed her, then change her diaper after the feeding so she is a bit awake before putting her down.

2. be alert! The first second she starts to waken, get in there and, without saying a WORD gently rock her tummy and get her back to sleep. No talking at all. Might take her 15 or 20 minutes (be patient, calm yourself, get your heartbeat down, breathe rhythmically, etc - a calm parent begets a sleeping baby so FAKE it till you make it) You want her to learn to sleep through that weird wakeup thing they have about 30 minutes into their naps (REM, non-REM, I can't remember the scientific terms right now)

She will NOT fall asleep on her own - you've had 6.5 months to figure that out. You need to help her at this point.

3. do this for every nap. see if she can sleep a 2 hour nap at 7am (ish) then a 1 hour nap 2 or 3 more times in the day.

4. Honestly, babies are crazy, and often need to have their first nap only 2 hours (or 1.5 hours) after they wake up in the morning! Seems so crazy, but whatever. They can often go a full 3 hours mid day, but not before that first nap.
So wakeup at 5;30?
first nap 7:30am - start at 7am THEN
wakes up at 8:30? next nap starts at 11am-ish
wakes up at 9:30am? next nap starts 2.5 to 3 hours later

5. Do all these things - placing baby on back, gently rock and rub, help her to go back to sleep after she wakes 10-20 minutes into her nap.

6. As she gets settled with you more quickly, (3 days? 5 days?) you will start to back off and rock her to mostly drowsy, then lift your hand and let her fall asleep herself. drowy, eyes fluttering, heavy, staying closed more than open.... that's what you are looking for and you lift your hand, or make the rocks slower. Then a few days later you back off a bit earlier, and so forth. DON'T WALK AWAY - these babies SENSE your presence. But eventually, you will be able to give her 5 minutes of rocking and rubbing and walk away, so that's the goal - let it take 2 weeks to get there, though.

Again, during this last stage, if she needs help to go back to sleep after the 20 minute nap, do that, but she should get better at learning to sleep through that sleep transition.

While you are working on naps, keep doing the same thing at bedtime with rocking the same length of time, etc. Just, if she sleeps better during the day, she should sleep better during the night because she's not so exhausted.

Keep feeding her at night, but after burping her (if she needs it) place her back in the crib and put her back to sleep - nurse/feed in a darkened room, no lights, no music, no dancing or talking or partying with parents.

She should be able to get it with this consistent, slow approach to TEACHING her how to fall asleep. The goal is that you kiss her on the forehead, pop her in her crib and walk out and she nuzzles and wiggles and falls asleep on her own.

Because when a child falls asleep on their own without an adult presence or help, then they can fall asleep in the middle of the night without an adult's presence or help. But - you need to lead her that way gently.

This might take 6 weeks, but it should work. And it might take less time! Try it. I couldn't stand, as I'm sure you cannot, listening to a young baby cry for an hour every night for 10 days, and not see any difference (I mean, she should be at least crying for less time by now or something!) So this isn't working, try a more gentle teaching approach.

Not everyone quits smoking by going cold turkey, others wean down and eventually get to nothing.

Really helpful, ty. Question- what if my baby just keeps crying to be picked up when I’m rocking his tummy? Just keep at it or pick him up?

[Anonymous]

I put on another thread recently that for me, expectations are premeditated resentments. And when I want something really badly and it’s not happening, I get anxious and angry and I think babies pick up on it. You are a great Mom and obviously trying to do what’s best for your baby. When putting the baby down try to remember to take deep breaths and calm yourself, it can help calm the baby.

Babies get some of their best feeds overnight so I kept feeding both of mine until they were over a year (but I was lucky to be able to co-sleep.) To those who say babies don’t need to eat overnight, it can make day feeding easier. I found both of my babies needed more night feedings when I went back to work and they had to take a bottle during the day as they enjoyed meals and probably got more from the breast.

If you decide to stop trying Ferber, I’d highly recommend a Facebook group like Biologically Natural Infant and Toddler Sleep. In a world where everyone is boasting about babies sleeping through the night, it’s a place for parents to go when that’s not happening and remember that it is ok to and very normal. This is only a small season.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I put on another thread recently that for me, expectations are premeditated resentments. And when I want something really badly and it’s not happening, I get anxious and angry and I think babies pick up on it. You are a great Mom and obviously trying to do what’s best for your baby. When putting the baby down try to remember to take deep breaths and calm yourself, it can help calm the baby.

Babies get some of their best feeds overnight so I kept feeding both of mine until they were over a year (but I was lucky to be able to co-sleep.) To those who say babies don’t need to eat overnight, it can make day feeding easier. I found both of my babies needed more night feedings when I went back to work and they had to take a bottle during the day as they enjoyed meals and probably got more from the breast.

If you decide to stop trying Ferber, I’d highly recommend a Facebook group like Biologically Natural Infant and Toddler Sleep. In a world where everyone is boasting about babies sleeping through the night, it’s a place for parents to go when that’s not happening and remember that it is ok to and very normal. This is only a small season.

+1 <3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh man OP, I'm laughing because you've had every possible response from every end of the spectrum. Sleep training is clearly not a science. Godspeed, however you can get some sleep I hope you do!

Right? And some babies are much more difficult than others.

[Anonymous]

I don't remember the sleek training books that well but I feel like you definitely do not have to night wean before you sleep train? Just keep the feedings to set intervals and don't go in before that. I think that's what Precious Little Sleep said.

OP - you can try to go more gradual as the PP recommended or less gradual. I can tell you when we sleep trained at 12 months I initially tried a gradual approach and I could tell it was confusing for DD. She had gotten used to being bounced to sleep and when we tried cutting down on it she would wail even if we were still holding her. That's how I knew that the gradual approach or Ferber checks would just not work for her. Full extinction with no checks was magic. It's okay to efeel it out with those gradual approaches and see how your baby reacts, before you commit to extinction which requires total consistency.

[Anonymous]

OP we bought a bed vibrator for her crib! It attaches under the bed to the springs and has a heavy duty cord and on/off switch. DD was a terrible sleeper. It turned out to be adhd and anxiety which was dx’d in late elementary school. She still is a terrible sleeper in high school. Her older siblings were all good sleepers. Every child is different.