Is your kid in 8th grade at Washington Latin?

[Anonymous]

interesting discussion. just curious. what is the bus fee?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The point is that WL's test scores are high largely because of demographics, not because of what goes on in the classroom. That's why things change so dramatically in high school when most of the more affluent kids leave for more established schools.

I worked hard for WL, painted at clean-up days and participated in the PA. Yes, there is diversity, but also a lot of resentment between the group of kids who does well with little effort and those who struggle and are not given the resources they need to succeed.

the school does not 'target' low income urban children- as does Kipp with it's extended school day and program designed specifically for such children. WL offers it's program to all children (transparent lottery- no entrance exam) seeking a rigorous classics program. It specifically asks you to sign a contract as a family stating that you will supervise two hours of hw a night. The school has some tutoring, some levelled classes (in math) and special needs personnel for kids with ieps. It os not a remedial program however, and the fact that some children come in underprepared in both skills and study habits speaks to how their previous school underserved them. Tht being said, the school struggles to 'catch them up' and indeed did to the state's satsifaction since it made ayp. Indeed, I would be great if more upper income kids choose to stay - even greater of motivated kids(any income) stay. I truly see that as Washington Latons target demographic.

The bus has been a boon to this middle class family. To the pp - it was about a thousand and some for the year to/fro with two afternoon services. Compare that to babysitter pickup (if you can have one!), public transport or the logistics of carpooling and it is another option. It is a courtesy that the school has gone to trouble to make available. Not mandatory, which is why I find it odd to talk about the bill. Surely one budgeted? At the beginning of the year they also offered a discount if you pre-paid.

[Anonymous]

BTW - I am not insinuating that the bill woul not be a stretch for some, which is why the school also offers a payment plan. We just looked at our transport options and found it to be the
most ecomonical, safest option and are really really grateful. Few other schools get involved in the logistical nightmares of transport, and that WL does speaks to the desire to provide access points to children from
the four quadrants. Remember you would have to get your child to school anyway. Constructive criticism on the cost or better ways to provide the service is one thing; to slam the school for putting it out as an option is another thing.

[Anonymous]

I think it's great that Washington Latin provides a bus. I wish more charter schools did that. Since it's an optional service, it makes sense that one has to pay for it.

[Anonymous]

Nobody slammed the bus service. The notion that it was free or easily affordable for some students was challenged.

The defensiveness about the school is telling. Some things work at Latin. Some don't.

To claim that Washington Latin PCS has somehow found the key to urban education was questioned. That's all, sorry it upsets you so.

[Anonymous]

If you're talking to me (12:52), I'm not upset at all, nor did I give any indication of being upset or thinking that Latin has found the key to urban education! I know nothing about Latin other than what I've read on the website and on these boards. Was really just envious about the possibilities of busing my kid instead of having to drive him in a couple years, likely OOB or charter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nobody slammed the bus service. The notion that it was free or easily affordable for some students was challenged.

The defensiveness about the school is telling. Some things work at Latin. Some don't.

To claim that Washington Latin PCS has somehow found the key to urban education was questioned. That's all, sorry it upsets you so.

I'm just answering your points. You talked about paying your hefty bus bill. I clarified that the bus is optional, makes life convenient for working families, and is a economical alternative to other means of ferrying kids to school. There are families reading this board who are interested in Latin, or like PP don't know much about it. They should have this information. You also talked about how there are not enough FARMS and the school is somehow failing them. I discussed the perspective that Latin in fact has 15% FARMS (you pulled this statistic), many more 'working class' families who do not qualify for free and reduced lunch but are not joining any country clubs, many middle class families, some upper Middle Class families, and a really great ethnic/cultural mix of all in the Middle School that is found rarely in schools in this city. You opined that the school is underserving FARMS. I answered that these children did not attend Latin K-4 and do have ground to make up. Do you know that most reading is set by grade 3??? The ones who succeed are the ones who use the resources offered and yes, work incredibly diligently. The school has made AYP. By state standards, it is not failing any 'group' of children even as it has more ground to cover. My kid has economic advantages and a slight LD and has to, guess what, work incredibly diligently too. It is already a challenging program, and we accept this--as we would rather have our child work hard in a challenging program than suffer a mediocre one. That's a family's choice to make. Enrollment at Latin, as you know since you are leaving, is not mandatory. That is the beauty of charters--they're a choice. People who choose Latin should also choose the Latin program and work expectations and the fact that it is a growing school with some kinks to work out: space, some discipline, and retaining a broader group of kids in the jump to HS. Again, I recognize that 8th grade families had a hard year. You were in a temporary classroom space that took its toll, and I'm sure had a bleed effect on discipline and morale. I am sorry. I also recognize that Latin is not a perfect school. Many of us have had 'lows' there as the school has built its program. What has happened is that year after year (for us) it has gotten better. Reassuringly better. Hey, this is a great school that my kid loves better. Finally, you stated that the HS does not have its act together. I agree that there are issues specifically around the departure of white and higher SES families. Of course that has a ripple effect! But the curriculum is in place, as are great teachers. Did you attend the HS curriculum night? Do you sneeze at the opportunity for your child to graduate from HS with 7 years of Latin under their belt? AND French or Chinese? Did you see the avant gard HS production of Our Town? Did you hear about the trip the Latin Class took to Rome? Did you come to Science Nice and see the kids working together harmoniously on Science projects? Did you know they are introducing AP next year? Do you know that the math program is very strong? This is a good program waiting for the same kids who enter Middle School to stay. There is a lot of good going on at Latin and to say that the Middle School is not a success (which you also stated above) belies the happy families returning to MS, the happy teachers returning to MS, and the extensive waiting list for MS based on word of mouth. The HS is next, and I believe it will succeed, though maybe not with your child in it. Again, good luck to you at your next destination.

[Anonymous]

I am very curious. What is the wait list like at Washington Latin.

Can anyone tell me how many open slots there were this year for grade 5, 6, 7 on up? And how many are on each wait list?

[Anonymous]

The wait list for the early grades is deep. Thins out after 7th. You cannot enter the school after 9th by virtue (you would not have the Latin in place etc.) of it's charter. It's worth applying for all grades though- obviously people who apply to Latin also applyto other schools and there is plenty of movement on the list.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow 20:08, I had to ask my DH if he had posted what you wrote.

Amateur hour--our thoughts exactly! I think the middle school gets raves because it's pretty much the only game in town other than Deal.

We've found the lack of classroom management appalling and the administration seems to believe their own press releases.

The school is a great idea, but it has so, so far to go. Sadly, there seems to be a smugness already and if you were to believe every post on DCUM, you would think unicorns were grazing on Latin's front lawn.

As for the building, I admit, it isn't everything. But DC told me today that there are mushrooms growing in the drama closet. If your child has any allergy or mold issues, this school is truly not safe.

our impressions exactly when we toured the school (on several occasions). My DC got in to 6th grade but we chose to go to Deal. The school has huge potential but it just has not been quite realized yet.

[Anonymous]

We chose Latin over Deal. I can see where Melissa Kim is coming from, and think she has made some great strides and brilliant moves. Overall, did not find the program as exciting though--including from talking with friends and talking with teachers at the open house. Some were great (don't get me wrong), but some seemed to be punching a ticket to retirement. I know Melissa has made an effort there, but still, there was a bit of that institutional DCPS feel (especially when I was handed the incredibly dense pile of DCPS paperwork--it just made me want to run...I know it's necessary, but it just brought to mind DC-BAS, DC-CAS, 'posting the standards' and everything else so formulaic about the current system--I have experience within DCPS and there are aspects that make me wanna gag). I don't want to get into a Latin vs. Deal and I am glad both exist as choices for kids in the city (they can't ALL squeeze into Deal's renovated building, right?) and I am glad you love Deal for your child, but it is equally possible to see flaws there and choose WL.

[Anonymous]

2009 DC-CAS Deal and Washington Latin Middle Schools FROM: http://nclb.osse.dc.gov/index.asp

READING 2009 PERCENT PROFICIENT WITHIN POPULATION TESTED * data unavailable for less than 25 students

DEAL JHS

Asian 84.09%
Black 70.63%
Hisp 65.48%
White 95.63%
DISAB. 44.44%
LEP/ NEP 50.75%
ECON. DISADV 62.57%

School Total PROFICIENT 78.37%


WASHINGTON LATIN SCHOOL PCS

Black 74.44%
White 93.75%
ECON. DISADV. 60.00%

School Total PROFICIENT 82.31%


MATH 2009 PERCENT PROFICIENT WITHIN POPULATION TESTED *data unavailable for less than 25 students


DEAL JHS

Asian 90.91%
Black 67.46%
Hisp 65.48%
White 96.25%
DISAB. 41.67%
LEP/ NEP 61.19%
ECON. DISADV 65.92%

School Total PROFICIENT 77.63%


WASHINGTON LATIN SCHOOL PCS

Black 73.68%
White 92.71%
ECON. DISADV 60.00%

School Total PROFICIENT 81.95%

[Anonymous]

I understand the comparison between Deal and Latin. The test scores are pretty equal, but it seems like Latin is a better fit for students who would like a smaller school and are willing to accept inferior facilities.

The bigger question is the comparison between Latin and other high school options. How would you compare Latin vs. Wilson, Walls, or privates? I know that most rising 8th grade families are considering these options for 9th, even though they hesitate to admit it publicly. I assume that strong students who have the money may opt for private school, but why should a student choose Latin for high school (not middle school)?? If anyone out there has decided to stay at Latin for high school, could you share your reasons and what other schools you were considering?

Also, how do the high school test results compare to Wilson and Walls?

[Anonymous]

PP, your questions are great and valid. The WL HS has had an exodus of students after 8th--as mentioned above, mainly those 'with options'. To understand the reasons is to understand the history-- first of all, the HS is not 'fully formed'. There is the first junior class next year. So when you put your kid in you are stepping out on a limb. Secondly, the founder of the school was chased out three years ago. Many of the 'options' families had helped build the school. They left with him before putting their children in HS. Many other 'options' families stayed, and were happy with the new leadership--but their kids were younger (ie still in Middle School). The HS however was left without the same 'balance' of children as it has had in the Middle School. It is not failing AA or disadvantaged children (if you look at the Middle School scores above, it is comparable to Deal) - but when the children with 'options' (whether white or AA) leave after 8, there is an effect on the HS class and test scores. As each class rising sees the children in the class above with 'options' leave, that has an effect as well. This year's 8th grade could have been the one to 'make the leap' but for a variety of reasons, they had a rougher year than the rest of the Middle School. I personally agree that the administration should have been more attentive to them. I don't think it was malicious. The administration is building a school year by year--and there are road bumps. Overall the administration has been pretty darned successful overall given how young the school is and how hard the job is. Each year is measurably, tangibly, better. In my opinion - the school overall is 'good', and some aspects have gone from 'good to great'. However, when it's your kid/class that suffer- you do take it personally. This 8th grade coming in next year is particularly cohesive and have led the way on many things--from participation in the EC to spearheading exciting class trips. The 5th grade seems quite enthusiastic. I think you will see a rising tide into HS. The conditions are there for it to be a small, extremely strong HS. Again, it is going to take that first class to 'make the leap'.
Please don't think the current HS is a terrible place b/cause the kids with 'options' have left. In fact, some kids with 'options' have stayed, and many of the children are the hard-working, determined, happy kids you would find in a typical DC more affordable independent school. Their parents have strong aspirations for them, they are ALL headed to college, and they are moving forward. Meanwhile, the HS curriculum has settled in, the school is adding in AP, the teachers are really smart (brainy smart) and dedicated, some are also goofy and fun in terms of sharing interests (cooking lessons in vegetarianism, or parsing Latin or rockets), they love the kids, there is NOT high turnover and the teachers are gaining cohesiveness, experience, PD, and the lot, there are teachers as well with many years of experience under the belt, and the school has an eye towards good, personalized outplacement. I do think that people coming in to 9th (if new) should be enthusiastic. The groundwork of the HS has been laid. If they kick in I think they will find the same excitement that we all felt when we put our children into 5th. Yes it is a start-up. Yes it takes investment. But the administration is generally responsive and wishes to do right. The 'tide is rising' (I think the majority of the incoming 8th grade will make the leap).
Personally, I observe my child growing socially (happily), testing out great on standardized without spending most of the school year on it, and being challenged in study skills and content. I know when my child goes head to head against an independent school child with the test scores my child has, the languages my child has, the extra-curriculars (school play, volunteering etc.) and coming from a Washington DC Charter (the lowest performing school system in the nation)--I think my child is going to have a 'good story to tell'. However, WL is not a finished product or for the faint of heart--it is a work in progress and if you come you must be willing to build. It can be a pain--but it can be kind of fun as well, to have input and responsiveness and be 'part of something'. It is definitely not a "Ferris? Ferris?" over the intercom kind of place.
I hope this helps--now let's all get out and enjoy the weather!

[Anonymous]

Great post. You seem to know the school well.

I think you may be overly optimistic about administration's ability to remake the high school in a short period of time. The Latin high school has significant problems with curriculum and discipline and they will not go away quickly even if your class takes the leap together. It has not been announced yet, but many teachers are leaving.

I do not agree that this year's 8th graders are not leaving just because they had a rough ride with space. They are smart kids and they became bored with the curriculum (even though it was tougher this year than it will be for the riging 8th grade -- geometry vs. second half of algebra), they were left without a Latin teacher for much of the year, the science curriculum was juvenile, and many felt they lost a a year of preparation in a spoken langage (starting in 8th grade instead of 7th). Many other lamented at the quality of the Latin sports teams. Looking ahead, they recognized that the Latin administration, while well-intentioned, had little experience implementing the improvements they promised in a public school with vastly diverse learners. They started and ended the year as a cohesive group, but they were not willing to sacrifice their high school years just to stay together.

The good news is that they were well-prepared for the next step. Every student who applied was accepted to Walls, and many others to top privates. A large group is also going to Wilson.

It is true that someone will have to take the leap if Latin is to succeed as a 5-12 school. Just look carefully before you leap.

Anonymous wrote:PP, your questions are great and valid. The WL HS has had an exodus of students after 8th--as mentioned above, mainly those 'with options'. To understand the reasons is to understand the history-- first of all, the HS is not 'fully formed'. There is the first junior class next year. So when you put your kid in you are stepping out on a limb. Secondly, the founder of the school was chased out three years ago. Many of the 'options' families had helped build the school. They left with him before putting their children in HS. Many other 'options' families stayed, and were happy with the new leadership--but their kids were younger (ie still in Middle School). The HS however was left without the same 'balance' of children as it has had in the Middle School. It is not failing AA or disadvantaged children (if you look at the Middle School scores above, it is comparable to Deal) - but when the children with 'options' (whether white or AA) leave after 8, there is an effect on the HS class and test scores. As each class rising sees the children in the class above with 'options' leave, that has an effect as well. This year's 8th grade could have been the one to 'make the leap' but for a variety of reasons, they had a rougher year than the rest of the Middle School. I personally agree that the administration should have been more attentive to them. I don't think it was malicious. The administration is building a school year by year--and there are road bumps. Overall the administration has been pretty darned successful overall given how young the school is and how hard the job is. Each year is measurably, tangibly, better. In my opinion - the school overall is 'good', and some aspects have gone from 'good to great'. However, when it's your kid/class that suffer- you do take it personally. This 8th grade coming in next year is particularly cohesive and have led the way on many things--from participation in the EC to spearheading exciting class trips. The 5th grade seems quite enthusiastic. I think you will see a rising tide into HS. The conditions are there for it to be a small, extremely strong HS. Again, it is going to take that first class to 'make the leap'.
Please don't think the current HS is a terrible place b/cause the kids with 'options' have left. In fact, some kids with 'options' have stayed, and many of the children are the hard-working, determined, happy kids you would find in a typical DC more affordable independent school. Their parents have strong aspirations for them, they are ALL headed to college, and they are moving forward. Meanwhile, the HS curriculum has settled in, the school is adding in AP, the teachers are really smart (brainy smart) and dedicated, some are also goofy and fun in terms of sharing interests (cooking lessons in vegetarianism, or parsing Latin or rockets), they love the kids, there is NOT high turnover and the teachers are gaining cohesiveness, experience, PD, and the lot, there are teachers as well with many years of experience under the belt, and the school has an eye towards good, personalized outplacement. I do think that people coming in to 9th (if new) should be enthusiastic. The groundwork of the HS has been laid. If they kick in I think they will find the same excitement that we all felt when we put our children into 5th. Yes it is a start-up. Yes it takes investment. But the administration is generally responsive and wishes to do right. The 'tide is rising' (I think the majority of the incoming 8th grade will make the leap).
Personally, I observe my child growing socially (happily), testing out great on standardized without spending most of the school year on it, and being challenged in study skills and content. I know when my child goes head to head against an independent school child with the test scores my child has, the languages my child has, the extra-curriculars (school play, volunteering etc.) and coming from a Washington DC Charter (the lowest performing school system in the nation)--I think my child is going to have a 'good story to tell'. However, WL is not a finished product or for the faint of heart--it is a work in progress and if you come you must be willing to build. It can be a pain--but it can be kind of fun as well, to have input and responsiveness and be 'part of something'. It is definitely not a "Ferris? Ferris?" over the intercom kind of place.
I hope this helps--now let's all get out and enjoy the weather!