Tj teachers - Be prepared!

[Anonymous]

PP is accurate, but that's going to be a problem. I think advanced math capability is mostly a matter of ambition and opportunity, that's true. But one of the appeals of TJ is a long list of post-AP math classes - diff eq, linear algebra, concrete math, probability theory, "advanced math techniques," complex analysis, etc. Classes far beyond multivariable calculus, much less Calc AB/BC.

Fewer advanced students coming in means that the demand for these classes will fall, and, ultimately, there might not be enough students to even make the classes. That will be a loss.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP is accurate, but that's going to be a problem. I think advanced math capability is mostly a matter of ambition and opportunity, that's true. But one of the appeals of TJ is a long list of post-AP math classes - diff eq, linear algebra, concrete math, probability theory, "advanced math techniques," complex analysis, etc. Classes far beyond multivariable calculus, much less Calc AB/BC.

Fewer advanced students coming in means that the demand for these classes will fall, and, ultimately, there might not be enough students to even make the classes. That will be a loss.

Demand will fall, but it would have to absolutely tank in order for there not to be enough students to take those classes. And TJ has a deep history of offering classes to as few as five or fewer students, so I don't think this is going to be a major area of concern.

The demographic of the school really doesn't have to change that much in order to accomplish something very significant for the county's equity concerns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Posted this on another thread, but the one significant change that you're going to see is in the level of incoming advancement in math for the new freshmen class.

They'll be every bit as INTELLIGENT, MOTIVATED, and CAPABLE - they just won't be walking in ready to take Pre-Calc, BC, and beyond on Day 1. Advancement in math does not necessarily indicate interest, intelligence, or aptitude for STEM - what it indicates is usually opportunity and parental ambition.

This will happen because the admissions process will no longer self-select for students who are this far advanced in math, in part because it does not rely on an exam that significantly favors students who have been exposed to concepts of logic and spatial thinking that are heavily emphasized in a traditional Honors Geometry course.

So you won't see TJ being any less rigorous - you'll just see it slightly less advanced from a pure math perspective.

Disagree. If they're not giving any admissions boost to the kids who passed IAAT and qualified for Algebra in 7th, then they're not going to be as intelligent, motivated, and capable as the kids who did qualify. Really, IAAT is a pretty low bar. If a kid doesn't score 91st percentile, that kid isn't particularly bright in math. If a kid does pass, but chooses to take M7H, then the kid isn't particularly motivated. The new system will admit a bunch of kids who are mediocre in math and will top out in AP Calc as high school seniors while possibly excluding the kids who are highly gifted in math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I heard from my friend’s son , first year freshman that their teachers don’t teach much. They just give them links to videos and they are expected to figure out on their own. It works so far, but of course with the new admission changes, teachers are going to be in shock with the class results if they don’t improve their teaching skills & instead expect kids to figure out, or TJ is going down.

I will not comment on the new admission part, but the bold part is true. I have a 9th grader at TJ, the math class consists on watching teaching videos the night before and teachers are answering questions during class time after kids try to understand the video themselves. Tests include materials not covered in the videos and are timed. It was a shock for my kid and sadly the grades reflect that. Other subjects are fine.

Are the videos of the teachers doing the teaching or of other math videos?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Posted this on another thread, but the one significant change that you're going to see is in the level of incoming advancement in math for the new freshmen class.

They'll be every bit as INTELLIGENT, MOTIVATED, and CAPABLE - they just won't be walking in ready to take Pre-Calc, BC, and beyond on Day 1. Advancement in math does not necessarily indicate interest, intelligence, or aptitude for STEM - what it indicates is usually opportunity and parental ambition.

This will happen because the admissions process will no longer self-select for students who are this far advanced in math, in part because it does not rely on an exam that significantly favors students who have been exposed to concepts of logic and spatial thinking that are heavily emphasized in a traditional Honors Geometry course.

So you won't see TJ being any less rigorous - you'll just see it slightly less advanced from a pure math perspective.

Disagree. If they're not giving any admissions boost to the kids who passed IAAT and qualified for Algebra in 7th, then they're not going to be as intelligent, motivated, and capable as the kids who did qualify. Really, IAAT is a pretty low bar. If a kid doesn't score 91st percentile, that kid isn't particularly bright in math. If a kid does pass, but chooses to take M7H, then the kid isn't particularly motivated. The new system will admit a bunch of kids who are mediocre in math and will top out in AP Calc as high school seniors while possibly excluding the kids who are highly gifted in math.

Agree with your assessment. I think self-selection will kick in over time and those applying will only be those that that can make it. First couple of years, kids will drop out after freshman year. once this info. spreads through the grapevine, few will apply. By the time this all shakes out, it will be another 5-10 years and a more-than-likely more left-leaning school board and county will decide to shut down the school. Will be good business for the private schools..

Like everyone pointed out, it's the white kids, whose numbers will go up with this approach that will benefit the most. Unless you are a certified genius/nerd (not using that in a negative way), why would any URM even want to go to TJ? Most intelligent to above-average intelligent URM would be better off going to base HS, doing well while having fun and getting into an elite school.

If you look at TJ, only about 50-70 kids get into really elite schools. These fall into the genius/nerd category with a few extroverted geniuses among them. Another 50-100 go to UVA and another 100-200 go to equivalent schools. Most of this group would have done about as well or better at their base high schools. Why do they go to TJ? They all think they are elite. They find out they are not in Sophomore year. By then it's too late to move to base for a variety of reasons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Posted this on another thread, but the one significant change that you're going to see is in the level of incoming advancement in math for the new freshmen class.

They'll be every bit as INTELLIGENT, MOTIVATED, and CAPABLE - they just won't be walking in ready to take Pre-Calc, BC, and beyond on Day 1. Advancement in math does not necessarily indicate interest, intelligence, or aptitude for STEM - what it indicates is usually opportunity and parental ambition.

This will happen because the admissions process will no longer self-select for students who are this far advanced in math, in part because it does not rely on an exam that significantly favors students who have been exposed to concepts of logic and spatial thinking that are heavily emphasized in a traditional Honors Geometry course.

So you won't see TJ being any less rigorous - you'll just see it slightly less advanced from a pure math perspective.

Disagree. If they're not giving any admissions boost to the kids who passed IAAT and qualified for Algebra in 7th, then they're not going to be as intelligent, motivated, and capable as the kids who did qualify. Really, IAAT is a pretty low bar. If a kid doesn't score 91st percentile, that kid isn't particularly bright in math. If a kid does pass, but chooses to take M7H, then the kid isn't particularly motivated. The new system will admit a bunch of kids who are mediocre in math and will top out in AP Calc as high school seniors while possibly excluding the kids who are highly gifted in math.

Agree with your assessment. I think self-selection will kick in over time and those applying will only be those that that can make it. First couple of years, kids will drop out after freshman year. once this info. spreads through the grapevine, few will apply. By the time this all shakes out, it will be another 5-10 years and a more-than-likely more left-leaning school board and county will decide to shut down the school. Will be good business for the private schools..

Like everyone pointed out, it's the white kids, whose numbers will go up with this approach that will benefit the most. Unless you are a certified genius/nerd (not using that in a negative way), why would any URM even want to go to TJ? Most intelligent to above-average intelligent URM would be better off going to base HS, doing well while having fun and getting into an elite school.

If you look at TJ, only about 50-70 kids get into really elite schools. These fall into the genius/nerd category with a few extroverted geniuses among them. Another 50-100 go to UVA and another 100-200 go to equivalent schools. Most of this group would have done about as well or better at their base high schools. Why do they go to TJ? They all think they are elite. They find out they are not in Sophomore year. By then it's too late to move to base for a variety of reasons.

The reason is because there is a much, MUCH bigger delta in terms of educational opportunities between their base school (which in many cases will come from the southern and eastern end of the county) and TJ than there is between, say, Langley or McLean or Chantilly and TJ. Right now the biggest reasons that Black and Latinx students do not want to apply to TJ - or accept their offers of admission, because that happens more than you think - are because there aren't enough students there who look like them and because there is plenty of WOM evidence within their communities that the ones who go are treated poorly by their white and Asian colleagues who assume them to be part of a racial affirmative action process that hasn't existed for decades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I heard from my friend’s son , first year freshman that their teachers don’t teach much. They just give them links to videos and they are expected to figure out on their own. It works so far, but of course with the new admission changes, teachers are going to be in shock with the class results if they don’t improve their teaching skills & instead expect kids to figure out, or TJ is going down.

I will not comment on the new admission part, but the bold part is true. I have a 9th grader at TJ, the math class consists on watching teaching videos the night before and teachers are answering questions during class time after kids try to understand the video themselves. Tests include materials not covered in the videos and are timed. It was a shock for my kid and sadly the grades reflect that. Other subjects are fine.

Are the videos of the teachers doing the teaching or of other math videos?

The math videos are the recordings of one of the current TJ Math teachers teaching on the white board, who may not be your child current Math teacher. There are questions sprinkled throughout the videos that the students should answer while watching the videos.

[Anonymous]

I'm skeptical about how many students taking Algebra in 8th grade would even be interested in going to TJ, given that one of the main benefits of TJ is being able to take really advanced math and science courses that base schools don't offer (and many science courses have advanced math as a prerequisite or co-requisite). If you can't take those classes anyway, why would you want to commute to a school that is likely farther away than your base school and has a reputation of more intense competition?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm skeptical about how many students taking Algebra in 8th grade would even be interested in going to TJ, given that one of the main benefits of TJ is being able to take really advanced math and science courses that base schools don't offer (and many science courses have advanced math as a prerequisite or co-requisite). If you can't take those classes anyway, why would you want to commute to a school that is likely farther away than your base school and has a reputation of more intense competition?

I'm pro reform, but agree with this 100%. At a minimum, I want to see those kids enrolled in geometry in summer school. What is the point of TJ if you are taking the same classes offered at your base school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm skeptical about how many students taking Algebra in 8th grade would even be interested in going to TJ, given that one of the main benefits of TJ is being able to take really advanced math and science courses that base schools don't offer (and many science courses have advanced math as a prerequisite or co-requisite). If you can't take those classes anyway, why would you want to commute to a school that is likely farther away than your base school and has a reputation of more intense competition?

I'm pro reform, but agree with this 100%. At a minimum, I want to see those kids enrolled in geometry in summer school. What is the point of TJ if you are taking the same classes offered at your base school?

I mean, you're not. There's a lot more than just math at TJ, and in the higher grade levels the options for STEM are miles and miles ahead of anything you'd find at any base school. And while we should be careful not to place TJ kids on too much of a pedestal, it's an incontrovertible fact that substantially 100% of the students there are highly invested in academics, which has an impact (for better or for worse) on climate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm skeptical about how many students taking Algebra in 8th grade would even be interested in going to TJ, given that one of the main benefits of TJ is being able to take really advanced math and science courses that base schools don't offer (and many science courses have advanced math as a prerequisite or co-requisite). If you can't take those classes anyway, why would you want to commute to a school that is likely farther away than your base school and has a reputation of more intense competition?

I'm pro reform, but agree with this 100%. At a minimum, I want to see those kids enrolled in geometry in summer school. What is the point of TJ if you are taking the same classes offered at your base school?

I mean, you're not. There's a lot more than just math at TJ, and in the higher grade levels the options for STEM are miles and miles ahead of anything you'd find at any base school. And while we should be careful not to place TJ kids on too much of a pedestal, it's an incontrovertible fact that substantially 100% of the students there are highly invested in academics, which has an impact (for better or for worse) on climate.

Those classes have prerequisites. It’s not a matter of a pedestal, it’s being on the track that a large portion of FCPS students are already on. There is nothing particularly special or noteworthy about an FCPS 7th grader taking algebra

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm skeptical about how many students taking Algebra in 8th grade would even be interested in going to TJ, given that one of the main benefits of TJ is being able to take really advanced math and science courses that base schools don't offer (and many science courses have advanced math as a prerequisite or co-requisite). If you can't take those classes anyway, why would you want to commute to a school that is likely farther away than your base school and has a reputation of more intense competition?

I'm pro reform, but agree with this 100%. At a minimum, I want to see those kids enrolled in geometry in summer school. What is the point of TJ if you are taking the same classes offered at your base school?

I mean, you're not. There's a lot more than just math at TJ, and in the higher grade levels the options for STEM are miles and miles ahead of anything you'd find at any base school. And while we should be careful not to place TJ kids on too much of a pedestal, it's an incontrovertible fact that substantially 100% of the students there are highly invested in academics, which has an impact (for better or for worse) on climate.

Those classes have prerequisites. It’s not a matter of a pedestal, it’s being on the track that a large portion of FCPS students are already on. There is nothing particularly special or noteworthy about an FCPS 7th grader taking algebra

The vast majority of specialized classes offered at TJ (most of which are either in science or technology, not math) do not require any prerequisites that couldn't be achieved by a student entering TJ in Geometry. There are a few, to be sure, but it's not many. I can't speak to whether individual posters are doing this, but this line of argument is usually used in bad faith by folks seeking to artificially maintain a status quo that serves their family. It's not a good look.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Posted this on another thread, but the one significant change that you're going to see is in the level of incoming advancement in math for the new freshmen class.

They'll be every bit as INTELLIGENT, MOTIVATED, and CAPABLE - they just won't be walking in ready to take Pre-Calc, BC, and beyond on Day 1. Advancement in math does not necessarily indicate interest, intelligence, or aptitude for STEM - what it indicates is usually opportunity and parental ambition.

This will happen because the admissions process will no longer self-select for students who are this far advanced in math, in part because it does not rely on an exam that significantly favors students who have been exposed to concepts of logic and spatial thinking that are heavily emphasized in a traditional Honors Geometry course.

So you won't see TJ being any less rigorous - you'll just see it slightly less advanced from a pure math perspective.

Disagree. If they're not giving any admissions boost to the kids who passed IAAT and qualified for Algebra in 7th, then they're not going to be as intelligent, motivated, and capable as the kids who did qualify. Really, IAAT is a pretty low bar. If a kid doesn't score 91st percentile, that kid isn't particularly bright in math. If a kid does pass, but chooses to take M7H, then the kid isn't particularly motivated. The new system will admit a bunch of kids who are mediocre in math and will top out in AP Calc as high school seniors while possibly excluding the kids who are highly gifted in math.

Agree with your assessment. I think self-selection will kick in over time and those applying will only be those that that can make it. First couple of years, kids will drop out after freshman year. once this info. spreads through the grapevine, few will apply. By the time this all shakes out, it will be another 5-10 years and a more-than-likely more left-leaning school board and county will decide to shut down the school. Will be good business for the private schools..

Like everyone pointed out, it's the white kids, whose numbers will go up with this approach that will benefit the most. Unless you are a certified genius/nerd (not using that in a negative way), why would any URM even want to go to TJ? Most intelligent to above-average intelligent URM would be better off going to base HS, doing well while having fun and getting into an elite school.

If you look at TJ, only about 50-70 kids get into really elite schools. These fall into the genius/nerd category with a few extroverted geniuses among them. Another 50-100 go to UVA and another 100-200 go to equivalent schools. Most of this group would have done about as well or better at their base high schools. Why do they go to TJ? They all think they are elite. They find out they are not in Sophomore year. By then it's too late to move to base for a variety of reasons.

The reason is because there is a much, MUCH bigger delta in terms of educational opportunities between their base school (which in many cases will come from the southern and eastern end of the county) and TJ than there is between, say, Langley or McLean or Chantilly and TJ. Right now the biggest reasons that Black and Latinx students do not want to apply to TJ - or accept their offers of admission, because that happens more than you think - are because there aren't enough students there who look like them and because there is plenty of WOM evidence within their communities that the ones who go are treated poorly by their white and Asian colleagues who assume them to be part of a racial affirmative action process that hasn't existed for decades.

I don't disagree on most of your reasons as to why they are under-represented at TJ. However, the "observation" about being treated poorly on the premise that they are in due to affirmative action is just a bunch of BS. All I was alluding to was, what's in it for them? The really smart among any demographic will shine at TJ. The really smart among URMs will get the same outcome regardless of which HS they attend. Which do you think they will choose to attend? I bet the majority will chose to stay at base. Heck, if I was guranteed the same outcome at base vs TJ, my DC will not go there! Too much work for the entire family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm skeptical about how many students taking Algebra in 8th grade would even be interested in going to TJ, given that one of the main benefits of TJ is being able to take really advanced math and science courses that base schools don't offer (and many science courses have advanced math as a prerequisite or co-requisite). If you can't take those classes anyway, why would you want to commute to a school that is likely farther away than your base school and has a reputation of more intense competition?

I'm pro reform, but agree with this 100%. At a minimum, I want to see those kids enrolled in geometry in summer school. What is the point of TJ if you are taking the same classes offered at your base school?

I mean, you're not. There's a lot more than just math at TJ, and in the higher grade levels the options for STEM are miles and miles ahead of anything you'd find at any base school. And while we should be careful not to place TJ kids on too much of a pedestal, it's an incontrovertible fact that substantially 100% of the students there are highly invested in academics, which has an impact (for better or for worse) on climate.

Those classes have prerequisites. It’s not a matter of a pedestal, it’s being on the track that a large portion of FCPS students are already on. There is nothing particularly special or noteworthy about an FCPS 7th grader taking algebra

The vast majority of specialized classes offered at TJ (most of which are either in science or technology, not math) do not require any prerequisites that couldn't be achieved by a student entering TJ in Geometry. There are a few, to be sure, but it's not many. I can't speak to whether individual posters are doing this, but this line of argument is usually used in bad faith by folks seeking to artificially maintain a status quo that serves their family. It's not a good look.

Check out the course catalog before you run your mouth about other people's "looks".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm skeptical about how many students taking Algebra in 8th grade would even be interested in going to TJ, given that one of the main benefits of TJ is being able to take really advanced math and science courses that base schools don't offer (and many science courses have advanced math as a prerequisite or co-requisite). If you can't take those classes anyway, why would you want to commute to a school that is likely farther away than your base school and has a reputation of more intense competition?

I'm pro reform, but agree with this 100%. At a minimum, I want to see those kids enrolled in geometry in summer school. What is the point of TJ if you are taking the same classes offered at your base school?

I mean, you're not. There's a lot more than just math at TJ, and in the higher grade levels the options for STEM are miles and miles ahead of anything you'd find at any base school. And while we should be careful not to place TJ kids on too much of a pedestal, it's an incontrovertible fact that substantially 100% of the students there are highly invested in academics, which has an impact (for better or for worse) on climate.

Those classes have prerequisites. It’s not a matter of a pedestal, it’s being on the track that a large portion of FCPS students are already on. There is nothing particularly special or noteworthy about an FCPS 7th grader taking algebra

The vast majority of specialized classes offered at TJ (most of which are either in science or technology, not math) do not require any prerequisites that couldn't be achieved by a student entering TJ in Geometry. There are a few, to be sure, but it's not many. I can't speak to whether individual posters are doing this, but this line of argument is usually used in bad faith by folks seeking to artificially maintain a status quo that serves their family. It's not a good look.

Check out the course catalog before you run your mouth about other people's "looks".

......Just did. Literally it's only the higher-order math classes (DiffEQ, Multi, LinAlg, Complex, etc) and the few advanced CS courses that depend on them. There is SO MUCH more in STEM that is unique to TJ and accessible to students who enter at any of the acceptable math levels.