Which schools are the hardest academically?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really question Duke’s academics being characterized as grueling and I wonder if JHU feels that way if you’re not in a STEM field (or maybe specifically premed). Great school for an academically-inclined undergrad in humanities/social sciences, imo.

Princeton has the potential for rigor (if that’s what you’re looking for) — mandatory junior paper and senior thesis can be challenging. But Princeton, like Harvard, has lots of faculty who typically grade on a truncated scale so you have to do something pretty egregious to get a C (in a non-STEM field).

I want to Hopkins a long time ago (‘93) in social sciences and it was certainly a place it required a lot of work but I can’t imagine that much more so than other peer schools. Engineering/BME/premed kids had to work like crazy though and had to constantly deal with “the curve” which contributed to the grueling atmosphere of the place.

I taught there then, lol! Also soc sci and yeah workload was comparable to Princeton and Harvard. Wasn’t worse. But STEM looked different from the outside.

Fun! If you don’t mind sharing which department were you in?

Poli Sci. And you?

Same! Well poli sci/IR. Trying to remember the name of my advisor a lovely Australian guy I think but I’m blanking on his name.

David Campbell. I think he’s in England now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can tell those who are mentioning MIT have never attended.

For one, their first year is P/F.

Did you attend as an undergrad? Because I did, and went on to get a PhD in the hard sciences and a JD. I had a rigorous high school curriculum. My first year at MIT was one of the hardest academic years I have ever had (and the other three were my next three years...). Law school was a f-ing VACATION compared to taking calculus, chemistry, physics, a humanities class with significant writing requirements, and a seminar.

It’s also Pass/No Credit (not fail) because of they didn’t do that, a good portion of their student body would drop out or commit suicide. When the administration discusses getting rid of it, faculty who went to MIT strongly advise against it and say they wouldn’t be where they are now if Freshman year was graded.

Also? Just because a class is P/NC doesn’t mean that a kid who would be at MIT would take it easy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really question Duke’s academics being characterized as grueling and I wonder if JHU feels that way if you’re not in a STEM field (or maybe specifically premed). Great school for an academically-inclined undergrad in humanities/social sciences, imo.

Princeton has the potential for rigor (if that’s what you’re looking for) — mandatory junior paper and senior thesis can be challenging. But Princeton, like Harvard, has lots of faculty who typically grade on a truncated scale so you have to do something pretty egregious to get a C (in a non-STEM field).

I want to Hopkins a long time ago (‘93) in social sciences and it was certainly a place it required a lot of work but I can’t imagine that much more so than other peer schools. Engineering/BME/premed kids had to work like crazy though and had to constantly deal with “the curve” which contributed to the grueling atmosphere of the place.

I taught there then, lol! Also soc sci and yeah workload was comparable to Princeton and Harvard. Wasn’t worse. But STEM looked different from the outside.

Fun! If you don’t mind sharing which department were you in?

Poli Sci. And you?

Same! Well poli sci/IR. Trying to remember the name of my advisor a lovely Australian guy I think but I’m blanking on his name.

David Campbell. I think he’s in England now.

Oh yes that’s him! Wow thanks for that little memory

[Anonymous]

UChicago, MIT, Caltech

UChicago - quarter system so students are constantly in between midterms and exams with a heavy workload; core curriculum so this very heavy and fast paced workload is required in every one of the traditional liberal arts - humanities, social sciences, maths, and physical/biological sciences. these students are in a constant grind.

MIT and Caltech - for STEM it doesn't get harder

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I really question Duke’s academics being characterized as grueling and I wonder if JHU feels that way if you’re not in a STEM field (or maybe specifically premed). Great school for an academically-inclined undergrad in humanities/social sciences, imo.

Princeton has the potential for rigor (if that’s what you’re looking for) — mandatory junior paper and senior thesis can be challenging. But Princeton, like Harvard, has lots of faculty who typically grade on a truncated scale so you have to do something pretty egregious to get a C (in a non-STEM field).[/quote]


But Pinceton also has grade deflation. Not a good choice if youwantto go on to law school and won't be in the top of the class.

[Anonymous]

Ok, so avoid Princeton unless you want to be at the bottom of your law school class, MIT is easy peasy, and a humanities major anywhere is basically like any public middle school. And forget about Duke-- I have come across unimpressive students at the gas station, so you should trust my opinion, not a former professor.

It is really easy to spot the posters who did not attend selective schools. No one who feels confident about their college experience talks like this.

[Anonymous]

Norte dame and Stanford

[Anonymous]

RPI is fairly brutal- but most are Engineering majors and that tips the scale

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok, so avoid Princeton unless you want to be at the bottom of your law school class, MIT is easy peasy, and a humanities major anywhere is basically like any public middle school. And forget about Duke-- I have come across unimpressive students at the gas station, so you should trust my opinion, not a former professor.

It is really easy to spot the posters who did not attend selective schools. No one who feels confident about their college experience talks like this.

I’m the Duke-skeptic and a former prof.

[Anonymous]

I went to Hopkins. I can say that the pre-med classes have a challenging environment in the sense that Hopkins has a lot of really intense pre-meds so the vibe is very competitive and everyone is working hard to drive up the curve.

As far as the content, I think the courses are challenging but the professors tend to be very good and very upfront and straightforward about the content and curve. You KNOW what you are getting into compared to some other places. By that I mean, I did grad school elsewhere at a Top 10 school and there sometimes a course would be *unexpectedly* hard or easy because the professors, some of which were big names in research, seemed to have more freedom to lecture about whatever they wanted and they were more likely to veer off course from what you would expect from a class like first year Organic Chem and go into their own research interests and sometimes that wasn't appropriate for that class/level.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[Anonymous]

PP here. I should clarify--I am not comparing grad courses to undergrad. I am comparing the classes I took as an UG at JHU to the equivalent UG courses I was a TA for at the other school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You are a high school student, yes? Academic difficulty will depend more on major/field than which college, so you should be looking specifically at what general field you are interested in.

Don't forget Caltech and MIT.

+100.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:UChicago, MIT, Caltech

UChicago - quarter system so students are constantly in between midterms and exams with a heavy workload; core curriculum so this very heavy and fast paced workload is required in every one of the traditional liberal arts - humanities, social sciences, maths, and physical/biological sciences. these students are in a constant grind.

MIT and Caltech - for STEM it doesn't get harder

Agree that the quarter system at UChicago makes things much harder than you'd expect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UChicago, MIT, Caltech

UChicago - quarter system so students are constantly in between midterms and exams with a heavy workload; core curriculum so this very heavy and fast paced workload is required in every one of the traditional liberal arts - humanities, social sciences, maths, and physical/biological sciences. these students are in a constant grind.

MIT and Caltech - for STEM it doesn't get harder

Agree that the quarter system at UChicago makes things much harder than you'd expect.

Haven’t previously posted about UChicago on this thread, but just in case the OP is a HS student looking for the most rigorous college s/he can find, let me just say (a) PPs are right about Chicago and (b) rethink your approach before you choose a college. My kid had a similar attitude, chose Chicago, and really regretted it, despite having done well there (good grades, mentors, first choice grad program). If you are serious about academics, look for the place you’ll learn the most about the things that interest you, be able to explore/develop new interests, and be happiest doing so. Near-constant academic pressure on all fronts is generally not an approach that yields these results. Instead, you spend lots of time putting out fires vs being driven by intrinsic interest in learning more.

Extrapolating from HS (as UMC American kids experience it today) that people compete/demonstrate their abilities by taking the largest number of the hardest classes available in the broadest range of subjects as early/quickly as they can, will lead you astray in so many ways. (Happiness, developing your talents, understanding how the world works).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can tell those who are mentioning MIT have never attended.

For one, their first year is P/F.

Did you attend as an undergrad? Because I did, and went on to get a PhD in the hard sciences and a JD. I had a rigorous high school curriculum. My first year at MIT was one of the hardest academic years I have ever had (and the other three were my next three years...). Law school was a f-ing VACATION compared to taking calculus, chemistry, physics, a humanities class with significant writing requirements, and a seminar.

It’s also Pass/No Credit (not fail) because of they didn’t do that, a good portion of their student body would drop out or commit suicide. When the administration discusses getting rid of it, faculty who went to MIT strongly advise against it and say they wouldn’t be where they are now if Freshman year was graded.

Also? Just because a class is P/NC doesn’t mean that a kid who would be at MIT would take it easy.

+1. Could not agree more with what you stated. To the previous poster, only the first semester is Pass/No Record, not the first year.