How can society measure our academic abilities?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:anyone else wonder if pp is just a troll replying to themselves ?

Most of this thread is trolls.

Most of these TJ threads are trolls.

They sure do a good job of fighting with one another!

Just because you don't agree with it, it doesn't make it a troll.

There's definitely a troll in here who has been trying to get TJ shut down for a long time. I think he/she lives near the school and is bitter about having to cross a freeway to get to the base school. I can always feel his/her evil energy in the posts he/she writes. He/She has a lot of hate in his/her heart.

I tend to agree - I'm pro TJ reform but it does seem like there's one shutdown provocateur in here. There are a lot of reformers, but it does feel like the shutdown comments are just coming from one person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:anyone else wonder if pp is just a troll replying to themselves ?

Most of this thread is trolls.

Most of these TJ threads are trolls.

They sure do a good job of fighting with one another!

Just because you don't agree with it, it doesn't make it a troll.

There's definitely a troll in here who has been trying to get TJ shut down for a long time. I think he/she lives near the school and is bitter about having to cross a freeway to get to the base school. I can always feel his/her evil energy in the posts he/she writes. He/She has a lot of hate in his/her heart.

I tend to agree - I'm pro TJ reform but it does seem like there's one shutdown provocateur in here. There are a lot of reformers, but it does feel like the shutdown comments are just coming from one person.

OP posted an open ended question on how our society can measure academic abilities. Isn’t anyone free to answer that question?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow. Yeah, let us just stay dumb and get dumber if possible. Practice is overrated, lol.
How do peeps come up with this stuff?

You're the one who came up with "this stuff" because Prepping ≠ Practice.
They both start with "P", but they are not the same.

[Anonymous]

There is no way to measure pure aptitude that can't be "broken" through prepping. The creator of the CogAT recommended providing prep materials to everyone so that the playing field would be leveled at least somewhat.

By the time the kids are 13-14 and applying for TJ, gifted is as gifted does. It's absurd to use aptitude tests rather than achievement tests and actual accomplishments. If they want to increase URM participation, the best way is to provide more services in K-8, as well as free TJ prep courses for middle schoolers.

I totally disagree with the PP who said: "I don't support the reforms but they did get one thing right. The test should measure through Algebra 1 only because that is what is taught in school and no further". Kids who are smart can easily test into Algebra I in 7th grade using only what is taught in FCPS. They should get a boost in TJ testing or acceptance over the kids who weren't smart enough to qualify for Algebra in 7th. TJ testing should cover all of Algebra I Honors as well as half of Geometry I Honors, as that is the top track accessible to smart FCPS kids who aren't necessarily supplementing outside of school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is no way to measure pure aptitude that can't be "broken" through prepping. The creator of the CogAT recommended providing prep materials to everyone so that the playing field would be leveled at least somewhat.

By the time the kids are 13-14 and applying for TJ, gifted is as gifted does. It's absurd to use aptitude tests rather than achievement tests and actual accomplishments. If they want to increase URM participation, the best way is to provide more services in K-8, as well as free TJ prep courses for middle schoolers.

I totally disagree with the PP who said: "I don't support the reforms but they did get one thing right. The test should measure through Algebra 1 only because that is what is taught in school and no further". Kids who are smart can easily test into Algebra I in 7th grade using only what is taught in FCPS. They should get a boost in TJ testing or acceptance over the kids who weren't smart enough to qualify for Algebra in 7th. TJ testing should cover all of Algebra I Honors as well as half of Geometry I Honors, as that is the top track accessible to smart FCPS kids who aren't necessarily supplementing outside of school.

There is NO test component of the proposed lottery, so I don't know what the PP meant about getting one thing right. I do agree you that there should be a test on algebra and geometry, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is no way to measure pure aptitude that can't be "broken" through prepping. The creator of the CogAT recommended providing prep materials to everyone so that the playing field would be leveled at least somewhat.

By the time the kids are 13-14 and applying for TJ, gifted is as gifted does. It's absurd to use aptitude tests rather than achievement tests and actual accomplishments. If they want to increase URM participation, the best way is to provide more services in K-8, as well as free TJ prep courses for middle schoolers.

I totally disagree with the PP who said: "I don't support the reforms but they did get one thing right. The test should measure through Algebra 1 only because that is what is taught in school and no further". Kids who are smart can easily test into Algebra I in 7th grade using only what is taught in FCPS. They should get a boost in TJ testing or acceptance over the kids who weren't smart enough to qualify for Algebra in 7th. TJ testing should cover all of Algebra I Honors as well as half of Geometry I Honors, as that is the top track accessible to smart FCPS kids who aren't necessarily supplementing outside of school.

They are changing the school. This will deter the preppers and the cheaters. That's a good thing.

[Anonymous]

You don’t. You just pretend every kid should have similar outcome, if not, the measurement must be discriminatory and need to be changed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no way to measure pure aptitude that can't be "broken" through prepping. The creator of the CogAT recommended providing prep materials to everyone so that the playing field would be leveled at least somewhat.

By the time the kids are 13-14 and applying for TJ, gifted is as gifted does. It's absurd to use aptitude tests rather than achievement tests and actual accomplishments. If they want to increase URM participation, the best way is to provide more services in K-8, as well as free TJ prep courses for middle schoolers.

I totally disagree with the PP who said: "I don't support the reforms but they did get one thing right. The test should measure through Algebra 1 only because that is what is taught in school and no further". Kids who are smart can easily test into Algebra I in 7th grade using only what is taught in FCPS. They should get a boost in TJ testing or acceptance over the kids who weren't smart enough to qualify for Algebra in 7th. TJ testing should cover all of Algebra I Honors as well as half of Geometry I Honors, as that is the top track accessible to smart FCPS kids who aren't necessarily supplementing outside of school.

They are changing the school. This will deter the preppers and the cheaters. That's a good thing.

Wow, such a nasty person! Anonymous forum does reveal your true color.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no way to measure pure aptitude that can't be "broken" through prepping. The creator of the CogAT recommended providing prep materials to everyone so that the playing field would be leveled at least somewhat.

By the time the kids are 13-14 and applying for TJ, gifted is as gifted does. It's absurd to use aptitude tests rather than achievement tests and actual accomplishments. If they want to increase URM participation, the best way is to provide more services in K-8, as well as free TJ prep courses for middle schoolers.

I totally disagree with the PP who said: "I don't support the reforms but they did get one thing right. The test should measure through Algebra 1 only because that is what is taught in school and no further". Kids who are smart can easily test into Algebra I in 7th grade using only what is taught in FCPS. They should get a boost in TJ testing or acceptance over the kids who weren't smart enough to qualify for Algebra in 7th. TJ testing should cover all of Algebra I Honors as well as half of Geometry I Honors, as that is the top track accessible to smart FCPS kids who aren't necessarily supplementing outside of school.

They are changing the school. This will deter the preppers and the cheaters. That's a good thing.

Wow, such a nasty person! Anonymous forum does reveal your true color.

If you want me to embrace cheaters, well, nope. I'm not going to.

You do you.

[Anonymous]

Just admit that prepping creates a fairly significant advantage. I am not accusing ALL TJ students of prepping, but I am curious about the percentage of those that have? Just accept that not everyone agrees that kids who prep are harder workers and more ambitious than those who don‘t prep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just admit that prepping creates a fairly significant advantage. I am not accusing ALL TJ students of prepping, but I am curious about the percentage of those that have? Just accept that not everyone agrees that kids who prep are harder workers and more ambitious than those who don‘t prep.

If prepping is so effective, FCPS should fund students in need with free prepping to solve the seemingly unsolvable achievement gap problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just admit that prepping creates a fairly significant advantage. I am not accusing ALL TJ students of prepping, but I am curious about the percentage of those that have? Just accept that not everyone agrees that kids who prep are harder workers and more ambitious than those who don‘t prep.

If prepping is so effective, FCPS should fund students in need with free prepping to solve the seemingly unsolvable achievement gap problem.

Prepping does create a significant advantage in all ways. Even if you removed the TJ test and just went on recommendations, the kids who are taking outside classes will shine in school and get better recommendations. You can't stop people from prepping and outside classwork, and you probably shouldn't. There's nothing wrong with kids taking extra math classes or getting extra enrichment.

I agree with the 2nd PP. FCPS should offer free after school and summer enrichment programs for kids who are URMs or FARMS. Young scholars should be strengthened and expanded. FCPS should have free prep materials available for everyone for the CogAT and TJ tests, and possibly CogAT prep should take place within the 2nd grade classroom. If there are 1000 kids each year with the aptitude and interest to attend TJ, then they should open a second campus (like, have a TJ east and a TJ west). If after doing all of that, TJ and AAP still end up being heavily Asian, then so be it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just admit that prepping creates a fairly significant advantage. I am not accusing ALL TJ students of prepping, but I am curious about the percentage of those that have? Just accept that not everyone agrees that kids who prep are harder workers and more ambitious than those who don‘t prep.

If prepping is so effective, FCPS should fund students in need with free prepping to solve the seemingly unsolvable achievement gap problem.

Prepping does create a significant advantage in all ways. Even if you removed the TJ test and just went on recommendations, the kids who are taking outside classes will shine in school and get better recommendations. You can't stop people from prepping and outside classwork, and you probably shouldn't. There's nothing wrong with kids taking extra math classes or getting extra enrichment.

I agree with the 2nd PP. FCPS should offer free after school and summer enrichment programs for kids who are URMs or FARMS. Young scholars should be strengthened and expanded. FCPS should have free prep materials available for everyone for the CogAT and TJ tests, and possibly CogAT prep should take place within the 2nd grade classroom. If there are 1000 kids each year with the aptitude and interest to attend TJ, then they should open a second campus (like, have a TJ east and a TJ west). If after doing all of that, TJ and AAP still end up being heavily Asian, then so be it.

Yeah, no.

Rather than increase the number of learning centers, let's just enlarge the scope of TJ. Done.

[Anonymous]

" If prepping is so effective, FCPS should fund students in need with free prepping to solve the seemingly unsolvable achievement gap problem. FCPS should offer free after school and summer enrichment programs for kids who are URMs or FARMS. FCPS should have free prep materials available ... yada, yada. "

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. The ambient naivety hereabouts astounds me. You'd have to pay the outliers to help themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:" If prepping is so effective, FCPS should fund students in need with free prepping to solve the seemingly unsolvable achievement gap problem. FCPS should offer free after school and summer enrichment programs for kids who are URMs or FARMS. FCPS should have free prep materials available ... yada, yada. "

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. The ambient naivety hereabouts astounds me. You'd have to pay the outliers to help themselves.

Y'all don't get it. The solution to prepping is not more prepping. It's changing the rules and doing something else.

Once someone has broken the code, that's it. Time to do something else.