From teen drug user to long-term recovery to recovery advocate to medical school to suicide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Medicine has always been very unforgiving of drug or alcohol use which makes sense given that physicians have incredible access to drugs. What happened to this girl is not unique.
The fact that she killed herself sadly supports medicine's decision not to train her. There are many people who attend medical school and can't complete residency training for a variety of reasons (addiction, financial, academic).
They go on to use their MD without doing a residency (research, pharmaceutical work , etc). These people have table their dreams, shift directions and make it work. They don't decided to end it all.

Also, given that she completed an internship year (first year of residency) means she was eligible to work as an attending MD ...

This. The bolded.

I hesitate to speak ill of the dead, but she did elegantly make their point for them.

This is so nasty.

This woman was not well, and was troubled, and you know what? There are plenty of successful practicing physicians who have similar mental issues.

I know of at least one highly successful physician who recently passed away from a drug overdose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Medicine has always been very unforgiving of drug or alcohol use which makes sense given that physicians have incredible access to drugs. What happened to this girl is not unique.
The fact that she killed herself sadly supports medicine's decision not to train her. There are many people who attend medical school and can't complete residency training for a variety of reasons (addiction, financial, academic).
They go on to use their MD without doing a residency (research, pharmaceutical work , etc). These people have table their dreams, shift directions and make it work. They don't decided to end it all.

Also, given that she completed an internship year (first year of residency) means she was eligible to work as an attending MD ...

This. The bolded.

I hesitate to speak ill of the dead, but she did elegantly make their point for them.

This is so nasty.

This woman was not well, and was troubled, and you know what? There are plenty of successful practicing physicians who have similar mental issues.

I know of at least one highly successful physician who recently passed away from a drug overdose.

Your example just proves the point you were trying to argue against.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Medicine has always been very unforgiving of drug or alcohol use which makes sense given that physicians have incredible access to drugs. What happened to this girl is not unique.
The fact that she killed herself sadly supports medicine's decision not to train her. There are many people who attend medical school and can't complete residency training for a variety of reasons (addiction, financial, academic).
They go on to use their MD without doing a residency (research, pharmaceutical work , etc). These people have table their dreams, shift directions and make it work. They don't decided to end it all.

Also, given that she completed an internship year (first year of residency) means she was eligible to work as an attending MD ...

This. The bolded.

I hesitate to speak ill of the dead, but she did elegantly make their point for them.

This is so nasty.

This woman was not well, and was troubled, and you know what? There are plenty of successful practicing physicians who have similar mental issues.

I know of at least one highly successful physician who recently passed away from a drug overdose.

Your example just proves the point you were trying to argue against.

Exactly.

Mental health is such a difficult issue for all aspiring physicians but also practicing physicians. If a practicing physician develops a mental health issue such as anxiety or depression later on in life, getting treatment or seeking psychiatric care could put them at risk of losing their license.

It's sad and seems really unfair. That said, there are very real life and death reasons. Life and death of not only the doctor, but they are often quite literally the difference between life and death for their patients. Therefore there can be no risk of compromise of their mental state.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think some people are getting too focused on a tree and missing the forest.

The issue out there is not about one tragic individual's story, but the overall culture of 'no screwing up' that exists in some fields. This is relevant to most on DCUM, especially as it relates to those parents who are trying to guide teens through the time of experimentation and temptations. This is one area where, apparently, screw up once and you're are done, or funneled into another line of work. I'm sure their are many others as well.

It's tricky because a) you want to keep your kid from falling down this path where mistakes will cost them and b) you also don't want them to say "well, I'm so far down the path their is no coming back". I think that is why this story is posted in the Teens forum rather than the Careers or Health or News forum.

You realize that when you're a doctor, screwing up means other people losing their lives. That is why its such an unforgiving environment - its for the greater good. It's 100% right.

Np: in this case, I would not say she screwed up once. It seems like a series of screw-ups and agree with another poster that she should have been counseled in what her option were, realistically, going to be.

Essentially though, it doesn't matter how many times she screwed up before medical school. She really shouldn't have been allowed to attend and pay for it (as others have said - they were not looking out for her long term prospects).

Not all those with a MD go to residency and practice medicine. She could have worked in a lab, for a pharmaceutical company, taught, gone into business. I know many successful people who completed med school and opted not to do a residency.

Medical schools should not be in the business of banning qualified students based on previous mistakes. That is only going to add more stress to teenagers to never, ever slip up. The real loss here is she had her heart set on one goal and when she didn't reach it, she took her life. We all need to teach our children coping skills. Life is full of disappointments. Limiting opportunities isn't the solution to navigating that.

Would she have secured a job as a pharmacist, given her previous drug taking though? Would that route not also have been barred?

[Anonymous]

Also, physicians have easy access to getting prescription drugs. If a person went into medicine with no prior history, the stress of the job can lead to addiction

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think some people are getting too focused on a tree and missing the forest.

The issue out there is not about one tragic individual's story, but the overall culture of 'no screwing up' that exists in some fields. This is relevant to most on DCUM, especially as it relates to those parents who are trying to guide teens through the time of experimentation and temptations. This is one area where, apparently, screw up once and you're are done, or funneled into another line of work. I'm sure their are many others as well.

It's tricky because a) you want to keep your kid from falling down this path where mistakes will cost them and b) you also don't want them to say "well, I'm so far down the path their is no coming back". I think that is why this story is posted in the Teens forum rather than the Careers or Health or News forum.

You realize that when you're a doctor, screwing up means other people losing their lives. That is why its such an unforgiving environment - its for the greater good. It's 100% right.

Np: in this case, I would not say she screwed up once. It seems like a series of screw-ups and agree with another poster that she should have been counseled in what her option were, realistically, going to be.

Essentially though, it doesn't matter how many times she screwed up before medical school. She really shouldn't have been allowed to attend and pay for it (as others have said - they were not looking out for her long term prospects).

Not all those with a MD go to residency and practice medicine. She could have worked in a lab, for a pharmaceutical company, taught, gone into business. I know many successful people who completed med school and opted not to do a residency.

Medical schools should not be in the business of banning qualified students based on previous mistakes. That is only going to add more stress to teenagers to never, ever slip up. The real loss here is she had her heart set on one goal and when she didn't reach it, she took her life. We all need to teach our children coping skills. Life is full of disappointments. Limiting opportunities isn't the solution to navigating that.

Would she have secured a job as a pharmacist, given her previous drug taking though? Would that route not also have been barred?

Maybe? But please note she wasn’t barred from residency. She just didn’t match. This happens to med students every year as there are a limited number of spots. This is more like not making the cut for the team you want but not being barred from the sport.

[Anonymous]

The match process is where you get to find out if any hospital is going to take you in residency in a specific discipline, correct?

Basically like sorority rush? Is this the thing that you have to be physically present for at a specific city on a specific day?

For students that don't get matched, what do they do?

The medical system seems very weird in that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The match process is where you get to find out if any hospital is going to take you in residency in a specific discipline, correct?

Basically like sorority rush? Is this the thing that you have to be physically present for at a specific city on a specific day?

For students that don't get matched, what do they do?

The medical system seems very weird in that way.

I am not familiar with sorority rush. For residency match, students apply to residency programs. If the program is interested, the program invites the student for an interview. After interviews are complete students rank their preferred program, and programs rank their preferred students. (Note: for interviews students usually have to cover travel/hotels and it can be an expensive process.)

Then students and programs are matched. Here's a video explaining it: http://www.nrmp.org/matching-algorithm/

Then on match day (mid March), 4th year medical students gather at their med school and are handed an envelope telling them where they've matched, or if they did not match. If they did not match, they can "scramble" for open/unfilled spots.

Spots are limited and some specialties are very competitive.

[Anonymous]

And her choices, Orthopedics or Emergency Med are both difficult to match.

Had she gone the route of family medicine in possibly a more rural area she likely would have matched. Slog through residency and then move if you need to. Not kill yourself.

I feel sad for this woman and her family. Honestly, someone close to her should have recognized that this might not be the best path for someone with mental illness. But in our society we tell everyone they can become whatever they want, when that’s not always the best advice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And her choices, Orthopedics or Emergency Med are both difficult to match.

Had she gone the route of family medicine in possibly a more rural area she likely would have matched. Slog through residency and then move if you need to. Not kill yourself.

I feel sad for this woman and her family. Honestly, someone close to her should have recognized that this might not be the best path for someone with mental illness. But in our society we tell everyone they can become whatever they want, when that’s not always the best advice.

Yes to all of this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like she still could have been an MD just not in a specialty that she wanted. How tragic that she could not see that.

She could have pivoted and become a psychologist.

[Anonymous]

Isn’t orthopedic surgery one of the hardest to match into?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like she still could have been an MD just not in a specialty that she wanted. How tragic that she could not see that.

She could have pivoted and become a psychologist.

She would have had to start ovwr feom scratch? Why do you post things of which you don't understand?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think some people are getting too focused on a tree and missing the forest.

The issue out there is not about one tragic individual's story, but the overall culture of 'no screwing up' that exists in some fields. This is relevant to most on DCUM, especially as it relates to those parents who are trying to guide teens through the time of experimentation and temptations. This is one area where, apparently, screw up once and you're are done, or funneled into another line of work. I'm sure their are many others as well.

It's tricky because a) you want to keep your kid from falling down this path where mistakes will cost them and b) you also don't want them to say "well, I'm so far down the path their is no coming back". I think that is why this story is posted in the Teens forum rather than the Careers or Health or News forum.

You realize that when you're a doctor, screwing up means other people losing their lives. That is why its such an unforgiving environment - its for the greater good. It's 100% right.

Np: in this case, I would not say she screwed up once. It seems like a series of screw-ups and agree with another poster that she should have been counseled in what her option were, realistically, going to be.

Essentially though, it doesn't matter how many times she screwed up before medical school. She really shouldn't have been allowed to attend and pay for it (as others have said - they were not looking out for her long term prospects).

Not all those with a MD go to residency and practice medicine. She could have worked in a lab, for a pharmaceutical company, taught, gone into business. I know many successful people who completed med school and opted not to do a residency.

Medical schools should not be in the business of banning qualified students based on previous mistakes. That is only going to add more stress to teenagers to never, ever slip up. The real loss here is she had her heart set on one goal and when she didn't reach it, she took her life. We all need to teach our children coping skills. Life is full of disappointments. Limiting opportunities isn't the solution to navigating that.

Would she have secured a job as a pharmacist, given her previous drug taking though? Would that route not also have been barred?

An MD is not qualified to become a pharmacist. She would have had to go back to pharmacy school and start over.

[Anonymous]

Pharmacy?
Psychologist?

Are people this dumb? You think any MD can just slide into these jobs?