"Opening up" means risking your life

[Anonymous]

Universal masks provided by employers and enforcement of proper use.
Adequate breaks and times/facilities for appropriate hand washing and enforcing of proper hand washing.
Sanitation sanitation sanitation.
Temperature taking before each shift.
Sent home immediately if ill with no repercussions. HUGE fines for employers subjecting staff to fear of losing job over sick leave.
A system in place for paid leave if immediate family members are ill.
Hotlines for anonymous reporting of employers violating staff safety measures and an agency to swoop in and investigate and rectify improper practices.
Schools are going to be a giant job to navigate.
My DH is considered essential and is constantly telling stories of people acting like idiots (sneezing into their hand and then immediately touching a board many people use, crowding people into a room for training, telling someone they are going to get fired if they keep complaining to HR about lack of masks. This was just from yesterday).

If “we” are going to get back out there then “we ALL” need to be taking this seriously. And a large amount of people are not taking it seriously. A bunch of Covid Carls walking around thinking they are untouchable passing out free virus samples to everyone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So much nonsense.

Let's see. What's the mortality rate for children? And for healthy adults under 50?

Based on actual data already available, covid-19 is less lethal than the flu for those huge groups of people.

Statistic suggest this is not the flu. Please stop trying to compare it to the flu.

For those groups of people, it's less bad than the flu.

Make decisions based on facts, not scaremongering.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:Universal masks provided by employers and enforcement of proper use.
Adequate breaks and times/facilities for appropriate hand washing and enforcing of proper hand washing.
Sanitation sanitation sanitation.
Temperature taking before each shift.
Sent home immediately if ill with no repercussions. HUGE fines for employers subjecting staff to fear of losing job over sick leave.
A system in place for paid leave if immediate family members are ill.
Hotlines for anonymous reporting of employers violating staff safety measures and an agency to swoop in and investigate and rectify improper practices.
Schools are going to be a giant job to navigate.
My DH is considered essential and is constantly telling stories of people acting like idiots (sneezing into their hand and then immediately touching a board many people use, crowding people into a room for training, telling someone they are going to get fired if they keep complaining to HR about lack of masks. This was just from yesterday).

If “we” are going to get back out there then “we ALL” need to be taking this seriously. And a large amount of people are not taking it seriously. A bunch of Covid Carls walking around thinking they are untouchable passing out free virus samples to everyone else.

There are several good suggestions here. Thinks like this have to happen before we can "open up".

[Anonymous]

The same people insisting they need freedom to do as they please will also be the ones refusing to wear masks.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Open up, and just keep social distancing and wearing a mask. Done.

It is unrealistic to shut down everything for 18 months. That vaccine Billy Boy is funding might be worse than the virus itself because it won’t have time to be tested.

But people have to get back to work. The backlash of shutting down the country will lead to deaths due to food supplies and shortages, transportation, people who have health issues will die and people with mental issues will end up killing themselves.

You can’t lock someone in their house with a business that they are using that to survive away from them. This will lead to devastating economic impacts and lead to more deaths. But this is a virus, not a death sentence. Anytime you step out your house, it’s a risk. We can’t live our lives in fear.

If you open up without proper testing, you are guaranteed to have a resurgence of disease. If you are comfortable getting infected, don't let me stop you. Feel free infect yourself and your family. Just don't expect others to take that risk on your behalf.

Exactly why don't we have all the tests available that we want?

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Universal masks provided by employers and enforcement of proper use.
Adequate breaks and times/facilities for appropriate hand washing and enforcing of proper hand washing.
Sanitation sanitation sanitation.
Temperature taking before each shift.
Sent home immediately if ill with no repercussions. HUGE fines for employers subjecting staff to fear of losing job over sick leave.
A system in place for paid leave if immediate family members are ill.
Hotlines for anonymous reporting of employers violating staff safety measures and an agency to swoop in and investigate and rectify improper practices.
Schools are going to be a giant job to navigate.
My DH is considered essential and is constantly telling stories of people acting like idiots (sneezing into their hand and then immediately touching a board many people use, crowding people into a room for training, telling someone they are going to get fired if they keep complaining to HR about lack of masks. This was just from yesterday).

If “we” are going to get back out there then “we ALL” need to be taking this seriously. And a large amount of people are not taking it seriously. A bunch of Covid Carls walking around thinking they are untouchable passing out free virus samples to everyone else.

There are several good suggestions here. Thinks like this have to happen before we can "open up".

PP who disagrees with you politically agreed. My work is done here commonsense things we can do to open up

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jeff look at South Korea and Germany

They aren't testing everyone

I disagree with you politically but you are a smart guy

Quit spreading fear/falsehoods

Both of those countries have much higher per capita testing than the US does. Germany tests 1 in 90 people. South Korea tests 1 in 119. The US is only testing 1 in every 273.

Without proper testing, we have to assume that everyone is potentially infected. Only testing can allow us to have more targeted quarantining.

Cmon man so you a need test before you can leave your house?!?!?! Again SK and Germany don't have that. They do contact tracing and test based on that.

Denmark is reopening schools next week.

Yes, THAT Denmark, heaven on earth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jeff look at South Korea and Germany

They aren't testing everyone

I disagree with you politically but you are a smart guy

Quit spreading fear/falsehoods

Both of those countries have much higher per capita testing than the US does. Germany tests 1 in 90 people. South Korea tests 1 in 119. The US is only testing 1 in every 273.

Without proper testing, we have to assume that everyone is potentially infected. Only testing can allow us to have more targeted quarantining.

Cmon man so you a need test before you can leave your house?!?!?! Again SK and Germany don't have that. They do contact tracing and test based on that.

Denmark is reopening schools next week.

Yes, THAT Denmark, heaven on earth.

Denmark's population is 1.7% that of the US.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Open up, and just keep social distancing and wearing a mask. Done.

It is unrealistic to shut down everything for 18 months. That vaccine Billy Boy is funding might be worse than the virus itself because it won’t have time to be tested.

But people have to get back to work. The backlash of shutting down the country will lead to deaths due to food supplies and shortages, transportation, people who have health issues will die and people with mental issues will end up killing themselves.

You can’t lock someone in their house with a business that they are using that to survive away from them. This will lead to devastating economic impacts and lead to more deaths. But this is a virus, not a death sentence. Anytime you step out your house, it’s a risk. We can’t live our lives in fear.

If you open up without proper testing, you are guaranteed to have a resurgence of disease. If you are comfortable getting infected, don't let me stop you. Feel free infect yourself and your family. Just don't expect others to take that risk on your behalf.

Exactly why don't we have all the tests available that we want?

Any ideas here? Was responding to Jeff, but would welcome concrete suggestions from anyone. What exactly is the holdup with getting more tests????

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Open up, and just keep social distancing and wearing a mask. Done.

It is unrealistic to shut down everything for 18 months. That vaccine Billy Boy is funding might be worse than the virus itself because it won’t have time to be tested.

But people have to get back to work. The backlash of shutting down the country will lead to deaths due to food supplies and shortages, transportation, people who have health issues will die and people with mental issues will end up killing themselves.

You can’t lock someone in their house with a business that they are using that to survive away from them. This will lead to devastating economic impacts and lead to more deaths. But this is a virus, not a death sentence. Anytime you step out your house, it’s a risk. We can’t live our lives in fear.

If you open up without proper testing, you are guaranteed to have a resurgence of disease. If you are comfortable getting infected, don't let me stop you. Feel free infect yourself and your family. Just don't expect others to take that risk on your behalf.

Exactly why don't we have all the tests available that we want?

Any ideas here? Was responding to Jeff, but would welcome concrete suggestions from anyone. What exactly is the holdup with getting more tests????

As I said earlier, testing was the original sin of the US response. Instead of adopting the WHO test, the US developed its own which was flawed. That limited testing in the beginning. Then, as more testing was rolled out, laboratory processing became a bottleneck. Now we are moving to point of care tests but for some reason that are still constrained. This has been a failure of leadership. Trump should have mobilized federal resources including the military and use of the DPA to address this. Even now, Trump refuses to take responsibility and just a couple of hours ago tweeted that the states have to do more testing. Instead of a national effort, we have to have 50 independent efforts (more, including territories and DC).

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Open up, and just keep social distancing and wearing a mask. Done.

It is unrealistic to shut down everything for 18 months. That vaccine Billy Boy is funding might be worse than the virus itself because it won’t have time to be tested.

But people have to get back to work. The backlash of shutting down the country will lead to deaths due to food supplies and shortages, transportation, people who have health issues will die and people with mental issues will end up killing themselves.

You can’t lock someone in their house with a business that they are using that to survive away from them. This will lead to devastating economic impacts and lead to more deaths. But this is a virus, not a death sentence. Anytime you step out your house, it’s a risk. We can’t live our lives in fear.

If you open up without proper testing, you are guaranteed to have a resurgence of disease. If you are comfortable getting infected, don't let me stop you. Feel free infect yourself and your family. Just don't expect others to take that risk on your behalf.

Exactly why don't we have all the tests available that we want?

Any ideas here? Was responding to Jeff, but would welcome concrete suggestions from anyone. What exactly is the holdup with getting more tests????

As I said earlier, testing was the original sin of the US response. Instead of adopting the WHO test, the US developed its own which was flawed. That limited testing in the beginning. Then, as more testing was rolled out, laboratory processing became a bottleneck. Now we are moving to point of care tests but for some reason that are still constrained. This has been a failure of leadership. Trump should have mobilized federal resources including the military and use of the DPA to address this. Even now, Trump refuses to take responsibility and just a couple of hours ago tweeted that the states have to do more testing. Instead of a national effort, we have to have 50 independent efforts (more, including territories and DC).

1. Which WHO test are you referring to?
2. Where exactly are these WHO tests?

[Anonymous]

Do those advocating for ending shut downs think people will just emerge from their homes and start shopping, eating out, seeing movies, etc as if nothing? I suppose there will be some who don't care and go out but I can't imagine there are going to be a lot of people out and about when they don't have to be. I don't think opening up is going to really help the economy or save a lot of businesses if people aren't confident that the virus is under control, but perhaps I'm missing something.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:1. Which WHO test are you referring to?
2. Where exactly are these WHO tests?

I am not sure if you are just being argumentative or you really want to know. But a German laboratory developed a coronavirus test that was adopted by the WHO and offered to other countries. The US developed its own test which was initially flawed. I am not sure which countries are using the WHO test now, but I believe Germany is since it was developed there.

[Anonymous]

Time will tell, 14:55.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's stay shutdown for the next 18 months.

This. Anyone who can afford to stay home, should stay home. Done.

Btw, I risk my life every time I get in my car.
Yet I do it.
- SP

I doubt you would willingly drive in most countries where they don't have well maintained roads, well maintained cars, licensed drivers, consistent signage and signals, or well obeyed traffic rules.

You will drive here because you know that while you may be "risking your life," the risk is very small. Right now, there is no good information on how high the risk of COVID is because of a lack of widespread testing.

In addition, not everyone is following the "traffic" rules for safe distancing, washing hands, not going out with a fever, etc.

Finally, if someone hits you in an accident, you might die right away or be badly injured. But you don't injure or kill a couple of other people a few days later.

So, sorry, your analogy sucks.