Are service academies like West Point considered prestigious?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not just a matter of grades and test scores, either, OP. Applicants have to be nominated by their member of Congress, senator, or the VP.

Yes, they're very prestigious!

I actually wish they would do away with this. It forces preferential treatment that has unintended effects.

[Anonymous]

Yes, very. A different path than most kids but the most prestigious execution of that path, if that make sense?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not just a matter of grades and test scores, either, OP. Applicants have to be nominated by their member of Congress, senator, or the VP.

Yes, they're very prestigious!

I actually wish they would do away with this. It forces preferential treatment that has unintended effects.

Indeed. I don't think some of the dumbos posting here understand that the process is highly political and has less to do with smarts than needing to help a constituent.

[Anonymous]

Definitely prestigious. There will be duds in any group that make it on connections, but I would expect any given individual to be very intelligent, accomplished, and good with people. I'm very far left and suspicious of the military. I would discourage my daughter from going to a service academy, but I still think those who go are a talented group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But why go to college to learn to kill or be killed. Depressing.

Or learn strategy to help with peace?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not just a matter of grades and test scores, either, OP. Applicants have to be nominated by their member of Congress, senator, or the VP.

Yes, they're very prestigious!

I actually wish they would do away with this. It forces preferential treatment that has unintended effects.

Indeed. I don't think some of the dumbos posting here understand that the process is highly political and has less to do with smarts than needing to help a constituent.

It's political but the academies themselves solicit kids with very high stats, and explain to them how to get a recommendation. I was solicited as a high school student, but knew that it was not the right path for me, and ended up going to college for free on a merit scholarship. I believe it's possible that a connected but not impressive kid could get a recommendation from their representative, but I'm not sure that they would get in on the strength of that recommendation without the stats.

FWIW I graduated about 20 years ago at a time when I don't think it would have mattered that my representative was a different party than my parents. I wonder if that holds true in today's climate.

[Anonymous]

The service academies have 2 tiers with the top including USMA, USNA, USAF Academy.
With this group, there is a lot of back and forth over "best" but they all have a different culture and recruit impressive candidates.

The 2nd tier is Kings Point and The Coast Guard Academy.

[Anonymous]

LOL. A lot of service academy parents posting. TOTALLY objective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Average SAT at West Point and AFA is about 1300. Lower at USNA. Not nearly as difficult to get into as an Ivy or any hyper-elite college. Great schools and much respect to the kind of kid who makes the commitment but not nearly the same level of academic performers.

Have at me. (If it helps, I did earn a congressional nomination to the AFA but was denied due to a failed color blindness test. I had no clue I was color blind. It hurt but I would’ve made a lousy cadet. Couldn’t get out of bed. )

I also noted that the SAT are surprisingly low compared to the reputations.

I guess if your measure of a good school is the average score that its students got on a standardized test they took when they were 16 or 17...then maybe you’re right. Most normal people don’t look at it that way, though.

Or you could just...think something and make no effort to quantify. Pretty uniforms and patriotism I guess. The fact remains that a 1250 gives you a good chance at the USNA and gives you no chance at Williams or Yale (short of some other factor which would just as easily get you into an academy). We see the kids who get into the academies. They are uniformly excellent students and really solid kids. We also have kids who get into Stanford, and they are brilliant and extremely accomplished. They aren’t even close to the same caliber academically.

Your turn. Produce something quantifiable that demonstrates academy difficulty of entry as greater than other elite colleges. I’ll wait.

I think your premise of measuring success is flawed. The SAT is designed to predict success in an academic program in college. And it is an arms race to get ever higher scores to compete for admission at the “top schools”. The reality is that the predictive power of the SAT is limited to more academic outcomes and there is little variance in performance at school above a certain threshold. (Please see college board validation research for details.)

But the more important criterion for success is building a successful life (career, family, etc) after school. This depends on conscientiousness/ discipline, emotional intelligence, managing relationships etc. And kids heading to the academy typically have real achievements in those areas that are strengthened through their time at school.

People here talk a lot about the network built by attending the Ivies, and it is good. But there is nothing like the alumni network of a service academy.

[Anonymous]

It's interesting that service academies in foreign countries do not seem to have the same prestige as these in US. Is it because of the huge military-defense complex in US?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This post really bothers me. Are you kidding? How do people not know that these schools are some of our best and brightest.

Our school systems have completely failed.

+1. The problem is I’ve never been aware of any high school presentation or college counselor explaining the service academies. Do they have admissions reps traveling the country? Do they visit private high schools? Another issue is US News doesn’t include the service academies in their national rankings. If they did, and they were say within the top 30 (?), it would REALLY elevate their profile amongst laymen. As it stands, the only families REALLY tuned into service academies tend to have military vets in their immediate family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Definitely prestigious. There will be duds in any group that make it on connections, but I would expect any given individual to be very intelligent, accomplished, and good with people. I'm very far left and suspicious of the military. I would discourage my daughter from going to a service academy, but I still think those who go are a talented group.

Most of the duds aren’t “connected,” they have certain hooks that I’m not getting into on here. Sports recruiting is one, though.

[Anonymous]

I know quite a few service academy grads and I think of them as hard-working, goal-oriented, self-disciplined, athletic doers who generally have their acts together, but I don't necessarily find them particularly smart, creative, or innovative as a whole. Bright enough for sure, and nothing to look down on, but if they didn't go to the academies, most of them wouldn't have gone to a top academic university or college. I mean, does Mike Pompeo really strike anyone as the sharpest tool in the shed? Or Roy Moore? Or Oliver North? So academically, I don't think they are that prestigious; their prestige comes from other qualities. It's really apples and oranges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know quite a few service academy grads and I think of them as hard-working, goal-oriented, self-disciplined, athletic doers who generally have their acts together, but I don't necessarily find them particularly smart, creative, or innovative as a whole. Bright enough for sure, and nothing to look down on, but if they didn't go to the academies, most of them wouldn't have gone to a top academic university or college. I mean, does Mike Pompeo really strike anyone as the sharpest tool in the shed? Or Roy Moore? Or Oliver North? So academically, I don't think they are that prestigious; their prestige comes from other qualities. It's really apples and oranges.

I think this is my objective experience as well. We have a few academy grads in the building but they are just like any other college grads/coworkers. Good folks but nothing special.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Definitely prestigious. There will be duds in any group that make it on connections, but I would expect any given individual to be very intelligent, accomplished, and good with people. I'm very far left and suspicious of the military. I would discourage my daughter from going to a service academy, but I still think those who go are a talented group.

Most of the duds aren’t “connected,” they have certain hooks that I’m not getting into on here. Sports recruiting is one, though.

This kind of attitude, and the bad behavior that comes along with it, is exactly why I wouldn't want to send my kid to an academy.